Toxic family or is it me?

[Tbonesteak]

Greeting All,

 

I have been thinking a lot about my family situation and I'd like your opinions/experiences.

 

I'm a 30 y/o man and work a full time job. Due to my elderly mom's extensive list of health problems, I am also her caregiver. To name a few, she is a diabetic, has cataracts, had a heart attack, and is recovering from cancer treatment. She literally takes around 20 pills daily. As such, she relies on me due to her health. I have 2 older siblings (1 brother and 1 sister) but they live in different states and no extended family. I have no relationship with my dad since he never did anything for me and my family.

 

During my mom's cancer treatment, I had to do everything from shuttling her back and forth to the hospital, cook, clean, and work to support myself. Took non-paid time off here and there. Nights weren't easy as my mom needs to go to the bathroom a couple time due to her diabetes. So a good night's sleep was difficult. I took short rests and naps when time permitted. During this time, my sister was going through a divorce. Yet, she came for 1 month help. My brother on the other hand, didn't help when requested. He actually took a 1-month vacation during my mom's cancer treatment. Since he didn't have accrued vacation time, he requested time off with his employer under the Family Medical Leave Act saying he would care for her. He faxed her doctor the forms which were signed. So why does this bother me? Well, when I talked to him about this he says I'm irrational. As an adult, he takes vacations and buys other people lavish gifts (i.e. ipads, iphones, etc). Yet, my mom never gets ANY gifts. He can do what he wants with his money, but the problem I have is when he turns around and asks my mom for money . I gave him money when he moved. He even talks about my mom behind her back to his in-laws. A case of biting the hand that feeds? Do you think he's toxic? Narcissistic?

 

Now that my mom has improved (thankfully), I have began dating a girl that she doesn't approve of. My mom thinks she's "used." I should mention my mom is a very traditional Asian woman. Sure the GF and I have our share of arguments, but who doesn't. Now she and my brother gossip while I'm at work. My brother refuses to call when I am home. How do I know they're gossiping? Well, I don't tell my mom where I'm going besides saying "I'll be out for tonight." I went to a wedding and the GF posted pictures on Facebook. My mom asked me how the wedding was a couple days later. My brother admitted previously to having a FB profile to "check out other people."

 

This gossip has a lot of stress on me as they don't support me in my relationship. My family (immediate and extended) thinks I'm antisocial which they theorize is why I don't want to dump such a "bad" GF. Even though my mom and dad don't talk, they agree that my GF is a such an evil person and are trying to coerce me into dumping her. Under my circumstances, I've worked a meager job to pay my own way through college and now have myself a great career. At the same time, I provided help for my mom without any assistance. Despite doing my best to manage all that, I'm now being criticized?! Is my family toxic or is it me?

 

Edited to add: Yes, my dad weasels his way into my life. Though I don't want a relationship with my dad, I keep him at a distance and only limit communication to the telephone. When I do pick up his phone calls, he'll always tell me to dump my GF and how my family doesn't approve.

 

All I want is to be happy and live everyday as if it were my last. I don't want to deal with negativity. Moving out is not an option since my mom is dependent on me. A senior home is not an option as I have seen the quality of life there. I've passed up so many opportunities (travel, social life) to help my mom through many hospitalizations but don't feel appreciated. I want to live life but feel a sense of obligation so I want to find a balance.

 

All advice/opinions/encouragement appreciated. Thanks.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Tbonesteak

[Radu]

How were you kids treated growing up and how old are each of you ?

 

Why is your gf 'used' up to them ?

 

Does your mother appreciate what you do for her when your brother is not around ?

 

Can your brother get away with murder [just an expression] when it comes to your mom and dad ?

 

Why did your mom and dad separate ?

[Tbonesteak]

How were you kids treated growing up and how old are each of you ? I'm 30. My brother is 32.

 

Why is your gf 'used' up to them ? "Used" meaning she's not a virgin.

 

Does your mother appreciate what you do for her when your brother is not around ?

 

Occasionally she'll say to her friends that she doesn't know what she'd do without me. But to family she'll say she doesn't rely and any of her children.

 

Can your brother get away with murder [just an expression] when it comes to your mom and dad ?

 

Yes. He called the police on me because I was upset and left the house to cool down. In his words, he did it to "teach me a lesson."

 

Why did your mom and dad separate ?

 

My dad gambled, never supported the family (both financially or emotionally), was never home.

[Radu]

So ... he is oldest son ?

 

What about your sister, what is her age ?

 

Did the way your mother treat your brother change after she and your dad separated ?

[Tbonesteak]

So ... he is oldest son ?

 

What about your sister, what is her age ?

 

Did the way your mother treat your brother change after she and your dad separated ?

 

Yes, my brother is the oldest son.

 

My sister is much older...50. I don't have anything against her. She always supports me when she can.

 

My mom has always been protective. My parents separated when I was 10 y/o. As far as I can remember, my mom was much happier with my dad gone. But she definitely resents him for not supporting us. I don't think things changed. My mom supported the family. My brother went to a private high school which cost a lot of money. I went to public school high school.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Tbonesteak

[Radu]

Well ... please read the below wall of text.

 

You said a magic word [of sorts], 'narcissistic' ... that means NPD, which is not easy to throw around, so i'll make a small summation of what it is.

Imagine about 50 equal sticks in a bundle, they are characteristics.

Selected in the right way [at least 5 out of 9 that form the definition of NPD and at very high intensities], they can form NPD.

NPD however [and all other cluster B personality disorders], is not a on/off disorder. It's a spectrum disorder, which means that parameters/characteristics that define it must be at very high intensity. If they are not, technically, by way of DSM IV, you don't have it but that doesn't make it any easier for others to live with you [might not be NPD but still be impossible to live with].

NPD is also rarely just it present in an individual, it is usually a mix of many things, and some 40% of NPD's have a 2nd disorder as well.

 

Basically narcissists are the worst possible to be treated, and their motto is 'the world around me'. Everything is defined in reference to them, to how it affects them, to how other ppl are to them and of them.

They live in their own little reality and are God.

This is why it's impossible to treat them because to treat something, one must accept that the thing is faulty, and how can God be faulty ?

 

Only a licensed therapist could give a diagnosis of NPD to your brother, so let's focus on other stuff.

 

What i personally see is a general toxic relationship between you all.

A maligned youngest sibling who sacrificed parts of his life so that his mother can go on [and realistically she has probably 1 decade or so still to go on] for no renumeration and for no appreciation [which is what hurts you the most].

A middle child, the first son [i'm putting emphasis on this because you mentioned Asian heritage here ... and it's a Confucius reference ... hopefully right], who is an egotistical pr*ck, allowed to do whatever he likes.

And a mother who feels this is perfectly normal ... actually who makes sure others know you are of no help.

In this context, one could think that her reluctance to accept your gf and her involving your deadbeat scum of a father, and your brother is in an effort to ensure your continued servitude.

In essence, so you can remain hers/theirs and for your reality [how you view and see the world] not to be questioned.

 

If the above is correct, this is not about your gf, and realistically, at 30yrs of age as a man, with your earning potential reduced and living with mommy dearest, you won't have 19yr old virgins banging at your door.

This is about keeping you there, and putting a unrealistic unspoken goal ahead of you ... in order to keep moving.

Like dangling a carrot on a line in front of the mule, to keep pulling like the fool.

Are you even going to inherit her [with extra] for your help and servitude ?

 

About your brother and your mother, the relationship reminds me of the one between my grandfather and his sons.

2 brothers, 4 yrs apart.

Oldest is my uncle and moved far away and generally avoided my grandpa.

Youngest was my dad and because he was always close by [helpful], my grandpa thought of him less than of my uncle.

My uncle's kids got preference over us, my uncle got preference himself despite the shoddy communication.

My dad paid for my grandpa's illness, and my uncle's cancer treatments ... like you, the mule of the family, unappreciated.

My grandpa was like that, he would treat you better if you did not want to be his friend, but he would treat you like sh*t if you willingly tried to be his friend.

Not narcissist but deff. a pr*ck.

 

This somewhat golden child/rotten child extended into the way he treated me and my sister. My sister was the only granddaughter they had ... she was put on a pedestal, not being able to do any wrong, while i was the 'wrong' one [i was told this when i was a kid].

The result is that my sister would crave the attention she got when not on a pedestal in a new relationship when visiting our other relatives and she was willing to do anything for it [she used to look up to our cousin and do anything he said ... usually at the expense of me].

 

From your description, this is what it reminds me off ...

I don't think they are narcissists, but the golden child /rotten child dynamic is THE dynamic that narcissists use to keep control of their kids so my guess is that deep down in the line of parents one was a narcissist and these ... methods of acting were transmitted.

I would also guess that they are on your mother's side, because kids of abuse tend to go for dysfunctional types [addicts ... like the gambler that is your dad].

 

---

What you need to do is to form some boundaries but this is impossible.

If i am right about the NPD in the history way down, if you try to assert yourself, the methods she will use to keep you line is to destroy your character in front of everyone in the family [and your brother is a complete nut for what he did].

But there is no way to fix this, unless it is on your own terms and even then you will be the bad child.

Because ... they are selfish ppl.

 

So extricate yourself from this any way you can, get a better job, explain the situation to your gf [if you two are together for a decent period of time] and let her know that you decided to fix the stuff with your family.

Your gf is vested in you, and she wants to know that if you two will marry at some point, she will not end up with toxic dysfunction in her home, a husband that is more of a son and brother than a husband/father.

 

It's not going to get better with your family, unless you do some serious work, by putting yourself first.

If you don't love yourself, who will ?

If you won't fight for yourself, who will ?

[Radu]

Yes, my brother is the oldest son.

 

My sister is much older...50. I don't have anything against her. She always supports me when she can.

 

My mom has always been protective. My parents separated when I was 10 y/o. As far as I can remember, my mom was much happier with my dad gone. But she definitely resents him for not supporting us. I don't think things changed. My mom supported the family. My brother went to a private high school which cost a lot of money. I went to public school high school.

 

Read this :

The Narcissist's Child: Scapegoat or Golden Child: victims of narcissistic apartheid

 

Again, i don't advise you put the label of NPD, just look at the pattern ... and try not to empathize too much with him.

[Tbonesteak]

Well ... please read the below wall of text.

 

You said a magic word [of sorts], 'narcissistic' ... that means NPD, which is not easy to throw around, so i'll make a small summation of what it is.

Imagine about 50 equal sticks in a bundle, they are characteristics.

Selected in the right way [at least 5 out of 9 that form the definition of NPD and at very high intensities], they can form NPD.

NPD however [and all other cluster B personality disorders], is not a on/off disorder. It's a spectrum disorder, which means that parameters/characteristics that define it must be at very high intensity. If they are not, technically, by way of DSM IV, you don't have it but that doesn't make it any easier for others to live with you [might not be NPD but still be impossible to live with].

NPD is also rarely just it present in an individual, it is usually a mix of many things, and some 40% of NPD's have a 2nd disorder as well.

 

Basically narcissists are the worst possible to be treated, and their motto is 'the world around me'. Everything is defined in reference to them, to how it affects them, to how other ppl are to them and of them.

They live in their own little reality and are God.

This is why it's impossible to treat them because to treat something, one must accept that the thing is faulty, and how can God be faulty ?

 

Only a licensed therapist could give a diagnosis of NPD to your brother, so let's focus on other stuff.

 

What i personally see is a general toxic relationship between you all.

A maligned youngest sibling who sacrificed parts of his life so that his mother can go on [and realistically she has probably 1 decade or so still to go on] for no renumeration and for no appreciation [which is what hurts you the most].

A middle child, the first son [i'm putting emphasis on this because you mentioned Asian heritage here ... and it's a Confucius reference ... hopefully right], who is an egotistical pr*ck, allowed to do whatever he likes.

And a mother who feels this is perfectly normal ... actually who makes sure others know you are of no help.

In this context, one could think that her reluctance to accept your gf and her involving your deadbeat scum of a father, and your brother is in an effort to ensure your continued servitude.

In essence, so you can remain hers/theirs and for your reality [how you view and see the world] not to be questioned.

 

If the above is correct, this is not about your gf, and realistically, at 30yrs of age as a man, with your earning potential reduced and living with mommy dearest, you won't have 19yr old virgins banging at your door.

This is about keeping you there, and putting a unrealistic unspoken goal ahead of you ... in order to keep moving.

Like dangling a carrot on a line in front of the mule, to keep pulling like the fool.

Are you even going to inherit her [with extra] for your help and servitude ?

 

About your brother and your mother, the relationship reminds me of the one between my grandfather and his sons.

2 brothers, 4 yrs apart.

Oldest is my uncle and moved far away and generally avoided my grandpa.

Youngest was my dad and because he was always close by [helpful], my grandpa thought of him less than of my uncle.

My uncle's kids got preference over us, my uncle got preference himself despite the shoddy communication.

My dad paid for my grandpa's illness, and my uncle's cancer treatments ... like you, the mule of the family, unappreciated.

My grandpa was like that, he would treat you better if you did not want to be his friend, but he would treat you like sh*t if you willingly tried to be his friend.

Not narcissist but deff. a pr*ck.

 

This somewhat golden child/rotten child extended into the way he treated me and my sister. My sister was the only granddaughter they had ... she was put on a pedestal, not being able to do any wrong, while i was the 'wrong' one [i was told this when i was a kid].

The result is that my sister would crave the attention she got when not on a pedestal in a new relationship when visiting our other relatives and she was willing to do anything for it [she used to look up to our cousin and do anything he said ... usually at the expense of me].

 

From your description, this is what it reminds me off ...

I don't think they are narcissists, but the golden child /rotten child dynamic is THE dynamic that narcissists use to keep control of their kids so my guess is that deep down in the line of parents one was a narcissist and these ... methods of acting were transmitted.

I would also guess that they are on your mother's side, because kids of abuse tend to go for dysfunctional types [addicts ... like the gambler that is your dad].

 

---

What you need to do is to form some boundaries but this is impossible.

If i am right about the NPD in the history way down, if you try to assert yourself, the methods she will use to keep you line is to destroy your character in front of everyone in the family [and your brother is a complete nut for what he did].

But there is no way to fix this, unless it is on your own terms and even then you will be the bad child.

Because ... they are selfish ppl.

 

So extricate yourself from this any way you can, get a better job, explain the situation to your gf [if you two are together for a decent period of time] and let her know that you decided to fix the stuff with your family.

Your gf is vested in you, and she wants to know that if you two will marry at some point, she will not end up with toxic dysfunction in her home, a husband that is more of a son and brother than a husband/father.

 

It's not going to get better with your family, unless you do some serious work, by putting yourself first.

If you don't love yourself, who will ?

If you won't fight for yourself, who will ?

 

Radu,

 

Thank you for your detailed response! It is very much appreciated. The dynamic you stated sounds extremely accurate. I definitely feel my brother is the golden child. I also theorized that this wasn't about my GF but more about my continued servitude.

 

I already began setting boundaries and things have been difficult. As I continue to set boundaries, I expect more resistance from my family. My family (mom and brother) has already said that if I marry my current girlfriend, they will not be attending my marriage ceremony. I will not let that bother me or deter me from pursuing a happy and fulfilling life.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

I didn't read all.

 

 

Move as physically far away from them as possible. Change your number. Send cards without a return address for holidays & birthdays. Live your own life. You put in your time.