I just want to scream!

[Noideanow]

Lots of good questions. Yes, I am suggesting that if she wants a CHANCE to make it work, she be more communicative...that doesn't mean talk or text more but set expectations and move toward them. Without movement, it's over.

 

As for me and my wife, I chose not to disclose. I decided that once I determined to stay, disclosing the affair seemed selfish and hurtful. That may be wrong but it seemed a selfish dumping of guilt, so I live with the guilt (and share it with my counselor). However, I have communicated clearly what my expectations are for our relationship and try desperately to meet her needs and expectations so that we have a better chance of making it. I arrived at this affair through my own actions and decisions but that does not mean that there were no reasons for it and that some of those reasons related to my relationship with my wife, so that is where I try to be more communicative.

 

And, it's hard. Emotionally, I am rebuilding things...On top of that, my wife and I were not physical whatsoever the entire time I was in the affair. Now, I am working on that and it is tough. Especially since I cannot shake the feeling that I made a mistake...but I can't go back anyway so I am trying to make the best of it for both of us.

 

But as far as the OP, if she wants a CHANCE, just a chance, expectations and actions have to be clear.

 

From the single womans point of view, why fight for at man who wants to/is with another woman? Thats not in our nature i think, he has to fight for us, prove his love, with his actions, and having another woman is the opposite of that:cool: that makes one run, hopefully;) its about trust and we cannot trust a man that spends his time with another woman..we assume he loves her and we try to move on:o

[E-Heart]

I agree with the communicating.

 

I also agree with goals over deadlines. When my fMM (now H) and I decided we wanted to be together, we sat down and discussed what would need to happen to make that possible. We came up with a few scenarios, decided which would work for us, and set goals. Then we each started working on what we needed to do.

 

Neither of us sat around waiting to see if the other was going to meet some deadline. We just both did what we needed. And, as it happened, he was ready before me. He had moved out, set up home, months before I was ready to join him. That turned out not to be a bad thing, but it wasn't deliberately planned that way.

 

If you wait for him to meet your deadline, you're putting your life on hold. That just breeds resentment. Rather, if you're focussed on meeting whatever goals you've agreed for yourself, while he's working in his (or not), you're still making progress to where you want to be. If he meets his goals, great. If he doesn't, you're stil further ahead than you would have been if you'd just waited.

 

Thank you!

 

I'm just curious as to what other goal I can set myself that has to do with MM that doesn't have to do with me waiting for him?

 

I have other goals....I'm a nurse...in school...getting into med school...starting med school in May....but that has nothing to do with him!

 

All i can think of doing is wait around for him until end of September while I do all this other stuff!

[E-Heart]

From the single womans point of view, why fight for at man who wants to/is with another woman? Thats not in our nature i think, he has to fight for us, prove his love, with his actions, and having another woman is the opposite of that:cool: that makes one run, hopefully;) its about trust and we cannot trust a man that spends his time with another woman..we assume he loves her and we try to move on:o

 

He just called me on bluetooth in his car and he ran into his W who was jogging on the street and had to stop and say hi, so he hung up on me....

 

 

Heard her voice....UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!

 

Makes me so angry and he knows it! SO furious now! I told him to go his appointments, to get a place and to make it happen! I told him that if he hasn't left her by the end of September, that I was making the decision....and that walking away from all this!

 

(he wasn't happy about me being specific : walking away....

oooohhh.....sorry if that hurt! Seriously....)

 

I told him that I'm at my breaking point and that everything that is happening in the next month and a half is pushing me further, but that I have to hang on! End of September is definitely the GOAL for both of us!

[E-Heart]

Respectfully I disagree.

 

E-heart has already communicated with MM, what more is there to say by this point? MM knows what he needs to do, it's not Es job to do it for him.

 

I do agree she should have some goals of her own though, but personal goals quite separate from MM, something to focus on outwith this situation.

 

E, you need to start living your life as if MM is not a part of it. If he leaves, you are no worse off, if he doesn't, you have a head start on recovery.

 

Focus on YOU and what you're going to do with your life, not him.

 

I am doing that! But i can't help being anxious, stressed out, angry...etc. sometimes!

[still_an_Angel]

2 things I see:

 

 

1. he continued to deny even after his W initiated the conversation about their relationship. He is not intending to make his exit on his M

2. they're going to Europe for 2 weeks (his birthday gift? second honeymoon?)

 

 

Sorry, but these are not strong indicators of a MM intending to leave.

 

 

This is really on you to stick to your ultimatum. Be strong and stick to your guns, otherwise nothing will happen and you'll still be in the A.

[E-Heart]

2 things I see:

 

 

1. he continued to deny even after his W initiated the conversation about their relationship. He is not intending to make his exit on his M

2. they're going to Europe for 2 weeks (his birthday gift? second honeymoon?)

 

 

Sorry, but these are not strong indicators of a MM intending to leave.

 

 

This is really on you to stick to your ultimatum. Be strong and stick to your guns, otherwise nothing will happen and you'll still be in the A.

 

There's a Europe trip every august/september....and a st martin trip every february! SO no, this isn't a bday gift not a second honeymoon...it's just how things have been for them for a long time!

 

I have my doubts that he will leave! I am sticking to my guns, without a doubt! And if I could look into the future and see that he hasn't left...I'd be gone from his life in a sec! Unfortunately, I can't do that and have to wait it out and see what happens!

[Sassy Girl]

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I told him...That it hurts and I just don't want to hurt anymore.

 

It's hard to not let bad emotions show when he's going to Europe with his wife for two weeks in the next little while....

And this is why I can't take this for much longer...these things just hurt too much now!

 

We are still communicating....frequently during the day, mostly texting! His in laws were down this weekend...OUCH again! Then a trip to Europe...OUCH...then a trip back home....OUCH!!! and then he has 2 weeks to figure this out!

 

Thank you! This is the kind of post that I needed! At the end of september, if things haven't changed, i'll need the ladies! lol!

 

If you tell him you are hurting, and he doesn't do anything to stop that hurt, he doesn't love you - he only loves himself.

 

People who love you will try and stop hurting you- not continue.

[truthbetold]

E=heart,

 

I haven't posted in this section for years. I saw your post on the log in page as I came to update an old thread in a different section....deciding whether I should update, and felt compelled to log in to try to reach you.

 

It struck me that you are a fellow RN and frankly I guess I'm confused what you need to "see". I had a quick scan at your other posts and it's pretty clear from an outside point that he's stringing you.

 

You're a nurse, we're taught to assess and use critical thinking, the writing is on the wall but you're blinded by your emotions.Regardless if the trip is an a yearly thing, it doesn't explain why he would disrespect and dismiss you by hanging up on you because he saw her jogging....really? And you think he will have the balls to leave in a month?

 

Honestly it doesn't seem like he has a bad marriage at all from an outside point of view being he needs to say "hello" and drop a phone from anyone let alone someone that he "supposedly" loves. (not to mention a 2 week trip)

 

Not to mention you said "if" you start dating he said for you to tell him as he will know not to leave his marriage! Surely it should be obvious that he is manipulating you to be in a "competition" with his wife. He has you believing if you empower yourself and show self respect and leave, it'll be your fault you are throwing this all away. When he never had any intention of leaving, only trying to buy more time, I just can't believe with your intelligence you're buying into this.

 

You already outlined all the things he will be doing in the next 8 weeks and none of it sounds like he will be making plans to leave. Think about it logically, right before a 2 week trip you want him to get an apartment? It sounds like he'll be busy from now til the end of September, while you will be waiting, he will likely come back with more excuses and he hasn't had time, hoping you will buy into it. Warning: He will probably make you seem selfish for not waiting and not understanding. Manipulators are good at manipulating.

 

It's sad because you say you'll be fine if the deadline comes and you need to walk away, that you realize he may not leave, but the underlying current is that you do expect him to leave. That's obvious by the energy of your posts. And it's sad you are handing all your power to him for your happiness and will be heartbroken.

 

You should be insulted that he thinks so little of you as to hang up on you and you should be done after that. He is a selfish tool that manipulates you. Respect and love doesn't look like that and I think you may know that, but are hoping your head is wrong.

 

He doesn't know how to treat anyone well as evidenced by how he treats his wife. It's not the circumstance, it's the man.

[Mount]

Very simple, let us do the exercise of reverse thinking/role play - if "E-heart" you are the MM actually in real life, and you have all the plans with wife, in-laws...for nice trip ahead, would you really take serious to leave home/marriage for some lonely woman awaiting, which would cause tornado in "my" comfortable life, just because that so-called "love", which indeed is just a word nothing substantial? Think hard.

 

 

 

E=heart,

 

I haven't posted in this section for years. I saw your post on the log in page as I came to update an old thread in a different section....deciding whether I should update, and felt compelled to log in to try to reach you.

 

It struck me that you are a fellow RN and frankly I guess I'm confused what you need to "see". I had a quick scan at your other posts and it's pretty clear from an outside point that he's stringing you.

 

You're a nurse, we're taught to assess and use critical thinking, the writing is on the wall but you're blinded by your emotions.Regardless if the trip is an a yearly thing, it doesn't explain why he would disrespect and dismiss you by hanging up on you because he saw her jogging....really? And you think he will have the balls to leave in a month?

 

Honestly it doesn't seem like he has a bad marriage at all from an outside point of view being he needs to say "hello" and drop a phone from anyone let alone someone that he "supposedly" loves. (not to mention a 2 week trip)

 

Not to mention you said "if" you start dating he said for you to tell him as he will know not to leave his marriage! Surely it should be obvious that he is manipulating you to be in a "competition" with his wife. He has you believing if you empower yourself and show self respect and leave, it'll be your fault you are throwing this all away. When he never had any intention of leaving, only trying to buy more time, I just can't believe with your intelligence you're buying into this.

 

You already outlined all the things he will be doing in the next 8 weeks and none of it sounds like he will be making plans to leave. Think about it logically, right before a 2 week trip you want him to get an apartment? It sounds like he'll be busy from now til the end of September, while you will be waiting, he will likely come back with more excuses and he hasn't had time, hoping you will buy into it. Warning: He will probably make you seem selfish for not waiting and not understanding. Manipulators are good at manipulating.

 

It's sad because you say you'll be fine if the deadline comes and you need to walk away, that you realize he may not leave, but the underlying current is that you do expect him to leave. That's obvious by the energy of your posts. And it's sad you are handing all your power to him for your happiness and will be heartbroken.

 

You should be insulted that he thinks so little of you as to hang up on you and you should be done after that. He is a selfish tool that manipulates you. Respect and love doesn't look like that and I think you may know that, but are hoping your head is wrong.

 

He doesn't know how to treat anyone well as evidenced by how he treats his wife. It's not the circumstance, it's the man.

[E-Heart]

E=heart,

 

I haven't posted in this section for years. I saw your post on the log in page as I came to update an old thread in a different section....deciding whether I should update, and felt compelled to log in to try to reach you.

 

It struck me that you are a fellow RN and frankly I guess I'm confused what you need to "see". I had a quick scan at your other posts and it's pretty clear from an outside point that he's stringing you.

 

You're a nurse, we're taught to assess and use critical thinking, the writing is on the wall but you're blinded by your emotions.Regardless if the trip is an a yearly thing, it doesn't explain why he would disrespect and dismiss you by hanging up on you because he saw her jogging....really? And you think he will have the balls to leave in a month?

 

Honestly it doesn't seem like he has a bad marriage at all from an outside point of view being he needs to say "hello" and drop a phone from anyone let alone someone that he "supposedly" loves. (not to mention a 2 week trip)

 

Not to mention you said "if" you start dating he said for you to tell him as he will know not to leave his marriage! Surely it should be obvious that he is manipulating you to be in a "competition" with his wife. He has you believing if you empower yourself and show self respect and leave, it'll be your fault you are throwing this all away. When he never had any intention of leaving, only trying to buy more time, I just can't believe with your intelligence you're buying into this.

 

You already outlined all the things he will be doing in the next 8 weeks and none of it sounds like he will be making plans to leave. Think about it logically, right before a 2 week trip you want him to get an apartment? It sounds like he'll be busy from now til the end of September, while you will be waiting, he will likely come back with more excuses and he hasn't had time, hoping you will buy into it. Warning: He will probably make you seem selfish for not waiting and not understanding. Manipulators are good at manipulating.

 

It's sad because you say you'll be fine if the deadline comes and you need to walk away, that you realize he may not leave, but the underlying current is that you do expect him to leave. That's obvious by the energy of your posts. And it's sad you are handing all your power to him for your happiness and will be heartbroken.

 

You should be insulted that he thinks so little of you as to hang up on you and you should be done after that. He is a selfish tool that manipulates you. Respect and love doesn't look like that and I think you may know that, but are hoping your head is wrong.

 

He doesn't know how to treat anyone well as evidenced by how he treats his wife. It's not the circumstance, it's the man.

 

The truth is....I know what's going to happen...I just want him to blame himself! But really...who cares who he blames! I'm actually just texted him right to ask if it was someone from work if he would have hung up on them to slow down, roll down his window to say hi to his wife!

 

I know...I'm a nurse and you would think that I'd be smarter with this! Believe or not...I'm really good at my job! Just emotionally torn right now!

[E-Heart]

Very simple, let us do the exercise of reverse thinking/role play - if "E-heart" you are the MM actually in real life, and you have all the plans with wife, in-laws...for nice trip ahead, would you really take serious to leave home/marriage for some lonely woman awaiting, which would cause tornado in "my" comfortable life, just because that so-called "love", which indeed is just a word nothing substantial? Think hard.

 

I would leave my wife after everything that I've done, yes!

 

But you have a good point! Men are different....he won't leave her!

[preraph]

At the end of September, you don't have to say anything. Just leave and close the door behind you.

[E-Heart]

Very simple, let us do the exercise of reverse thinking/role play - if "E-heart" you are the MM actually in real life, and you have all the plans with wife, in-laws...for nice trip ahead, would you really take serious to leave home/marriage for some lonely woman awaiting, which would cause tornado in "my" comfortable life, just because that so-called "love", which indeed is just a word nothing substantial? Think hard.

 

I'm overanalyzingn and apparently had to be there! He just couldn't not stop!

 

He was screwed both ways! I asked what's so bad about making your W mad if you're going to leave her anyways? He says he's done with this conversation!

 

Ppppffffffffff!!!!

[E-Heart]

At the end of September, you don't have to say anything. Just leave and close the door behind you.

 

I don't even think I will make it until the end of september! Today has pushed me possibly a little too far....

[Mount]

But the thing is, it is so obvious, and right in front of everyone's face, that E-heart' MM has not done any a little effort that shows his intention to leave yet.

 

 

If this MM is lying, at least please be a "good" liar but he seems not even care to do the pretense or fake effort or fake gesture of leaving at all, such as Lawyer searching, Lawyer visiting, retainer fee pay in advance, accommodation arrangement with E-heart, future communication planning to friends/family about the leaving...etc etc. From what E-Heart's describing, in my eyes he does not even take it (so-called leaving wife/marriage in next month) serious.

 

 

I did not see any seriousness at all from the whole story, and September is not a month very far away.

 

 

At the end of September, you don't have to say anything. Just leave and close the door behind you.

[E-Heart]

But the thing is, it is so obvious, and right in front of everyone's face, that E-heart' MM has not done any a little effort that shows his intention to leave yet.

 

 

If this MM is lying, at least please be a "good" liar but he seems not even care to do the pretense or fake effort or fake gesture of leaving at all, such as Lawyer searching, Lawyer visiting, retainer fee pay in advance, accommodation arrangement with E-heart, future communication planning to friends/family about the leaving...etc etc. From what E-Heart's describing, in my eyes he does not even take it (so-called leaving wife/marriage in next month) serious.

 

 

I did not see any seriousness at all from the whole story, and September is not a month very far away.

 

 

I have a midterm tomorrow and I can't even concentrate on studying.

 

I feel like I can't do this anymore...

[laurar]

Lots of good questions. Yes, I am suggesting that if she wants a CHANCE to make it work, she be more communicative...that doesn't mean talk or text more but set expectations and move toward them. Without movement, it's over.

 

As for me and my wife, I chose not to disclose. I decided that once I determined to stay, disclosing the affair seemed selfish and hurtful. That may be wrong but it seemed a selfish dumping of guilt, so I live with the guilt (and share it with my counselor). However, I have communicated clearly what my expectations are for our relationship and try desperately to meet her needs and expectations so that we have a better chance of making it. I arrived at this affair through my own actions and decisions but that does not mean that there were no reasons for it and that some of those reasons related to my relationship with my wife, so that is where I try to be more communicative.

 

And, it's hard. Emotionally, I am rebuilding things...On top of that, my wife and I were not physical whatsoever the entire time I was in the affair. Now, I am working on that and it is tough. Especially since I cannot shake the feeling that I made a mistake...but I can't go back anyway so I am trying to make the best of it for both of us.

 

But as far as the OP, if she wants a CHANCE, just a chance, expectations and actions have to be clear.

 

So, clear as in an ultimatum? I don't want to thread jack..trying to keep it within the overall topic. Did your OW give you one? Things didn't work out with OW, you love her but she didn't communicate well enough so you resumed with the wife? I don't get it, but I suppose I am interested in the opinion of a MM. How do you think that not being honest with your wife is the kindest thing to do? I guess that means that we OW's who are "spared the truth" are really being treated well by our MM's? Instead of them being honest and admitting aloud we are sidepieces?

[laurar]

I have a midterm tomorrow and I can't even concentrate on studying.

 

I feel like I can't do this anymore...

 

 

 

You can't. You need to close the door and eventually find something respectful and loving.

[Popsicle]

If you tell him you are hurting, and he doesn't do anything to stop that hurt, he doesn't love you - he only loves himself.

 

People who love you will try and stop hurting you- not continue.

 

This is true. Remember this.

[Popsicle]

This might make you feel better.

 

From Mistress To Mrs. - Stars That Married "The Other Woman"

[E-Heart]

This might make you feel better.

 

From Mistress To Mrs. - Stars That Married "The Other Woman"

 

Thanks,

 

well....I reached my breaking point tonight! Can't do this anymore...this is making me too depressed (I can't tell you how much...it's scary) and I don't think I'll make it through his trip!

 

Feeling relieved that I don't have to deal with this anymore and that I can focus on myself!

[Popsicle]

Thanks,

 

well....I reached my breaking point tonight! Can't do this anymore...this is making me too depressed (I can't tell you how much...it's scary) and I don't think I'll make it through his trip!

 

Feeling relieved that I don't have to deal with this anymore and that I can focus on myself!

 

 

It is a relieving feeling, isn't it? Makes you feel so much lighter.

[anika99]

So, here's the truth. There are three types of MM in affairs. Those that have no intention of leaving their wives, those that leave their wives, and those that vacillate.

 

I can honestly say I was the third kind, which is, frankly, the worst kind to be in a relationship with. Type 1 are just a-holes. Type 2 are future husbands. Type 3 truly care about you but when it comes time to pull the trigger, they back away. I honestly can't even figure out why I did because I love her so effing much that it drives me crazy, but there it is.

 

So, by communication, I don't mean text him and call him and be available. You have to be a combination of push and pull. Push him to commit and pull away at times. If you are going to successfully convert a Type 3 (and the odds are that you won't), there has to be a combination of pain and pleasure. Tell him what you want, let him do it, encourage him to do it, and if he doesn't back away. Don't respond for a couple of days. You want to keep it going into September? Give him two weeks of NC and see how he feels, but TELL him you're not contacting him for two weeks so that he understands that this is not business as usual. By September, you'll know. If he still hasn't hired a lawyer, he's no longer Type 3, he's Type 1...an a-hole.

 

Spoken just like typical manipulative cheating MM. Sounds like you know your game. Thankfully I've never had to resort to these kinds of games to have a man be my one and only.

 

 

OP the MM is never going to blame himself. You could wait for him until the cows come home and pigs fly, he will always accuse you of being the one who ruined everything by not waiting just a little longer. Meanwhile he lives his life, taking his vacations, celebrating birthdays with family, enjoying the benefits of married life while you sit in a holding pattern, an endless state of waiting. He's living his life fully and stealing part of your life too. He's selfish and greedy.

 

 

End it with him now and if he was ever remotely serious about leaving he will find you when he's properly moved out. If ending the affair doesn't make him leave his marriage then he was never going to.

[TaraMaiden2]

Thanks,

 

well....I reached my breaking point tonight! Can't do this anymore...this is making me too depressed (I can't tell you how much...it's scary) and I don't think I'll make it through his trip!

 

Feeling relieved that I don't have to deal with this anymore and that I can focus on myself!

 

I was hoping you'd finally come to your senses and realise that all this stress was self-induced.

You knew - you knew right from the moment you gave him until September, that all you were doing was prolonging (and indeed, intensifying) your own agony.

All you have done is pile on the pressure on yourself.

 

While he's with her, and going about his daily business, he doesn't have to think about you at all, and September's *over there*.... he can deal with that as and when, and anyway, he doubts you'll suit your actions to your words, because otherwise, you'd have walked already, right?

 

Right, E-Heart: Put your money where your mouth is.

Block, delete, deny disappear.

 

Focus on your exams, your career, your work, your happiness, your future, your, your, your.

 

Shed the load, quit the burden, and stop trying to drive both of you because it's not working, and never will.

 

Drop him like the steaming pile of doo-doos that he is, and relax your shoulders.

 

Here we go:

 

Day one, of many great free, liberated days.....

[Noideanow]

I think he needs to feel really bad to get out of his situation and now he isnt feeling bad enough(you are there for him), maybe with you moving on he will slowly begin to see he has to do something:confused: