frustrated with conditional sex!!

[Thegameoflife]

Keyword is "most".

 

Equality is a delusion. I have never witnessed equality between two people. Men are not always in the dominant role. Sometimes women are dominant. Don't be sexist.

 

My wife is who she is. Some people don't like being short, but it doesn't add inches.

[spiderowl]

This must be very frustrating for you and it gives him all the power. Of course, it could be that he has a lower sex drive than you and it's not a power play at all.

 

What I would suggest is that you lose interest in sex with him. I don't mean really lose interest but act accordingly. Not in an unpleasant way, just in an 'I'm not available for sex' way. It might be hard to maintain for any length of time but the key here is that you turn down the sex not him. From what you say, you've started to do this so carry on. As long as he feels he is the one who chooses when to have sex, he may have this false impression he can use it as a means of control over you (not consciously perhaps but all the same). The minute you start to turn down sex and appear content with that, then he's going to realise it's not so nice with the 'shoe on the other foot' (that's not a fetish by the way but an English saying!). I would maintain that for as long as possible and keep yourself satisfied. Let him realise that you have power to turn him down too. I am working on the basis that he might want more once he realises access is not under his control any more and also that it may seem more exciting to him to have to work for it.

 

If the above doesn't work, I am tempted to say have an affair to meet your sexual needs but infidelity doesn't help marriages as a rule and it could ruin it entirely.

[elaine567]

If the above doesn't work, I am tempted to say have an affair to meet your sexual needs but infidelity doesn't help marriages as a rule and it could ruin it entirely.

 

Or she can walk away completely.

If this is a power/dominance game, I doubt he will only be able to restrict it to the bedroom, once that avenue is closed off.

Perhaps she needs to look more closely at her life, is she truly as free as she thinks she is?

Is he really as "wonderful" as she assumes, or do his mind games and controlling behaviour extend further into her life and she is playing along as it suits her atm?

I do not know if this rigid control of her sex life could be termed "abuse" here, I guess some may see in that way.

Abusers tend to be "lovely" people at first, that is how they get their hooks into a person. As time goes on, abuse can seep into a relationship - abuse can take many forms, emotional and sexual abuse within marriage leave no physical scars, but the wounds can still run very deep.

[SummerDreams]

I really dont get what dominance and games for power has to do with anything in this case at least. OP's sex drive is simply higher than her husband's. I find it a simple case of incompatibility just like some people are introverts or extroverts, they like jazz or rock, reading books or playing sports, prefer the see or the mountain etc. The OP has expressed to her husband that she wants more sex and now the ball is at his feet. Now he will show how much he cares for his wife's needs and how much he is willing to sacrifice to please her. Depending to that the OP can choose to stay or leave. No relationship is perfect, there are always some aspects in it that are missing.

[Thegameoflife]

I really dont get what dominance and games for power has to do with anything in this case at least. OP's sex drive is simply higher than her husband's. I find it a simple case of incompatibility just like some people are introverts or extroverts, they like jazz or rock, reading books or playing sports, prefer the see or the mountain etc. The OP has expressed to her husband that she wants more sex and now the ball is at his feet. Now he will show how much he cares for his wife's needs and how much he is willing to sacrifice to please her. Depending to that the OP can choose to stay or leave. No relationship is perfect, there are always some aspects in it that are missing.

 

It's not a game. If he gets turned off by her behaviour, she isn't going to get what she wants. She can leave, but she'll find herself with the same problem again with a different guy. Unless she meets a submissive guy, but then she'll find that submissive men will likely not meet her needs in other aspects of the relationship. It's a catch 22.

 

The OP's problem is how can she get him to initiate sex more. She wants him to take the dominant role and initiate sex more often, and to loosen his schedule. She doesn't want him to have sex with her. She wants him to take over sex and be the sexually driven man than used to take her when he wanted, which is the need she wants filled.

[SummerDreams]

It's not a game. If he gets turned off by her behaviour, she isn't going to get what she wants. She can leave, but she'll find herself with the same problem again with a different guy. Unless she meets a submissive guy, but then she'll find that submissive men will likely not meet her needs in other aspects of the relationship. It's a catch 22.

 

The OP's problem is how can she get him to initiate sex more. She wants him to take the dominant role and initiate sex more often, and to loosen his schedule. She doesn't want him to have sex with her. She wants him to take over sex and be the sexually driven man than used to take her when he wanted, which is the need she wants filled.

 

We dont disagree. But the OP's husband does not seem willing to become this man. The real question is, will she sacrifice his otherwise perfect character as she said for a satisfying sex life?

[SammySammy]

It's funny how life works out.

 

There are men out there ready and willing to have sex twice a day (or more) in any way a woman wants it. Can't get laid to save their lives.

 

Some men don't know how good they have it. Compromise with the woman. Something. Anything.

 

I do not understand married people who are unwilling to put forth their best effort to meet their spouse's sexual needs. That's part of the glue that keeps the relationship together.

 

And, as we've seen so many times on this site, neglecting that crucial responsibility tends to lead to the disintegration of so many relationships.

 

The truth of the matter is we can't make choices for your husband. Or for you. One thing I know is choices have consequences. Both of you need to carefully consider your choices ... and the resulting consequences.

[cmcf]

This must be very frustrating for you and it gives him all the power. Of course, it could be that he has a lower sex drive than you and it's not a power play at all.

 

What I would suggest is that you lose interest in sex with him. I don't mean really lose interest but act accordingly. Not in an unpleasant way, just in an 'I'm not available for sex' way. It might be hard to maintain for any length of time but the key here is that you turn down the sex not him. From what you say, you've started to do this so carry on. As long as he feels he is the one who chooses when to have sex, he may have this false impression he can use it as a means of control over you (not consciously perhaps but all the same). The minute you start to turn down sex and appear content with that, then he's going to realise it's not so nice with the 'shoe on the other foot' (that's not a fetish by the way but an English saying!). I would maintain that for as long as possible and keep yourself satisfied. Let him realise that you have power to turn him down too. I am working on the basis that he might want more once he realises access is not under his control any more and also that it may seem more exciting to him to have to work for it.

 

If the above doesn't work, I am tempted to say have an affair to meet your sexual needs but infidelity doesn't help marriages as a rule and it could ruin it entirely.

 

 

I actually have been doing that. He said to me the other night, " are you gonna put out tonight?" I said, "If you have to ask me then my answer will Always be no. And No if it's 10 o'clock." He didn't like that answer too good.

Yesterday was my birthday and guess what," No sex." He was too tired. You know he is old and gets tired more easy..... (per my husband)

Tonight I went up to bed around 915pm purposely early. He was watching a ballgame with his son and didn't come to bed til 1015pm (yes way past his bedtime and definitely not his usual) anyways, I made sure that I was (pretending) to be half asleep when he came to bed to see if he would initiate anything. I happened to pick up my cellphone when he walked in the bedroom though so he knew I was awake, but I still acted sleepy...... anyways he said why didn't you tell me you were going to bed. I said I didn't know I was suppose to you could come up here anytime. He said why are you already rolled over like you don't want to do anything. I'm ready . I said because the chores are all already done for the day!!! He absolutely didn't like that comment. Then said, " you make me feel like I can't do anything right." I said you do lots of things right. He said we'll I feel like I do everything wrong in your eyes. I said I never said that...all I said was the chores are already done for the day!

And I meant that! As much as I wanted to just go on and have sex I just rolled over. I feel like when we have sex at 10pm that's it's another thing he's crossing off the chore list for the day.

Mind you I have threw subtle hints at him all week about having sex in the aftenoon. His answer is what if the kids come upstairs they will know what's going on. Mind you our kids are 22, 18 & 17. They are Not dumb....I said we are married and who cares what they think or don't think or know!

Sad to say it actually has crossed my mind....the affair part that is. Just for sex nothing else, BUT I Know that would make things worse. All his exes cheated on him. I don't want to be put into their category. And I do LOVE him. That would hurt him and I would Never want to do that. But, it makes me think this all may be why they cheated on him. . . . . . .

I'm soooooo frustrated. And I am planning to buy myself something then just cut him off completely until he changes something. Hell, it's already been over 2 weeks. I'm almost a Virgin again now....

[cmcf]

Yes, he gives me chills.....still when he touches me. I am Always happy to see him and be in his arms as he seems to be also.

But, now the lack of sex is just really making me not want to even touch him at all. But, I still do because I love being in his arms, but it's like I'm torturing myself. I'm even starting to dread going to be because I know either we will have an disagreement and I'll most likely then go to bed...disappointed. ..... :-(

[CarrieT]

Now you, OP, are being the one who is escalating the problem. You are being very passive-aggressive regarding the issue and your husband is right: At this point there is nothing he can do to make it right.

 

So if you want things to change, you *both* are going to have to learn to communicate your needs and feelings better. Consider researching the Five Languages of Love.

 

This will only get worse if you don't take steps to fix it.

[cmcf]

I have told him what I want.....even this week. I told him I want to have sex other times than 10pm. Then he still makes an excuse as to why he/we can't. What else can I do? I told him what I want..... so maybe if I stop giving him the affection he likes then maybe I will get the affection I like besides occasionally at 10pm......

????

[Els]

If he is generally a very rigid and schedule-oriented person, then it makes sense that sex would be schedule-oriented for him, too. I'm not saying this is right (I'd get quite annoyed at that too), but you already knew this was his personality from the start. And you said that you liked this schedule-oriented rigidity in other aspects of your life together.

 

Even assuming he CAN change the type of person he is, would you want that? I mean, if he started being less OCD about having sex only at a specific time, but also became less OCD about other schedules, would you be okay with that?

[elaine567]

I know he is on the OCD spectrum here, but I guess there is a power play going on too.

 

Her Birthday, understandable expectation of sex BUT - no sex - too old, too tired...

The "Are you gonna put out tonight?...(at 10pm)" is not romantic or sexy and he knows it and I guess he may have deliberately killed the mood.

The 10 pm rule - he is very well aware of the hassle and upset this is causing, yet he is coming out with the "you make me feel like I can't do anything right." excuse.

 

He knows very well, how to put this issue right, only he just doesn't want to for some reason, despite counselling and despite it being said numerous times in plain language, and that is more worrying for the OP and her marriage going forward I guess, than the lack of sex per se.

[salparadise]

I have told him what I want.....even this week. I told him I want to have sex other times than 10pm. Then he still makes an excuse as to why he/we can't. What else can I do? I told him what I want..... so maybe if I stop giving him the affection he likes then maybe I will get the affection I like besides occasionally at 10pm......

????

 

Or maybe [certainly] you will crank up the negative feelings and resentment and eventually destroy the very foundation. Do not do that.

 

Affection and acceptance are key ingredients not just to get to sex, but to make sex fulfilling. You two are engaging in a power struggle, and the solution is to give him back his power rather than emasculating him. He has told you what the problem is from his perspective, and it's not right or wrong- it's how he feels. When he says, "you make me feel like I can't do anything right" you should be listening and thinking about how YOU can change that and make him feel empowered.

 

Now mind you I'm not saying that it's all your fault; I'm saying that there is a dynamic going on here that is destructive rather than productive, and cranking it up is the opposite of making it better. This new rule of yours, that you won't have sex at 10pm, is a power play... and it's emasculating him.

 

Your complaint is not enough sex, yet you've now chosen to deny him sex at the very time that his is naturally inclined just to make a point. Well, you're making your point alright- but it's the opposite of what you need to do to turn up the heat in the bedroom.

 

When I think about the best sexual dynamics I've experienced in my life, it invariably includes genuine acceptance, affection and empowerment. And the empowerment part is important... if a woman is smart enough to relinquish the power and make me feel like a stud, I become a stud. if she expresses appreciation, I do more and more of whatever it was that she appreciates.

 

I realize that this dominant/submissive combination won't be every couple's cuppa tea, but I also know that two dominants are going to clash... and based on what you said, "yes, he gives me chills.....still when he touches me," (and other things) it seems like you have plenty of capacity to submit and allow him to feel his sexual power... but you're taking the opposite tack because you're pissed off. You've decided that withholding is how to get what you want, and you couldn't be more wrong about that.

 

Harville Hendriks' book "Getting The Love You Want" explains much of the dynamic that I hear you describing, and he provides a recipe for reversing it. You consciously give your partner what he/she most desires/needs without expectation of immediate reward, and you get in touch with the pleasure you derive from giving pleasure. When both of you get that cycle established magical things can happen.

 

Do not allow frustration from unmet expectations to turn into resentment. Resentment is relationship poison. All of the power you have to change him resides in your ability to change yourself first... think of it as a piece of string on the table; it's easy to pull it, but you can't push it.

 

I hope you will reconsider your tactics and reactions. You alluded to the motivation to have an affair... well, here's the flip side of that thought... when your husband says, you make me feel like I can't do anything right," just imagine how susceptible he would be to an attractive women who made him feel like he could do no wrong!

[elaine567]

I get totally what you are saying here, and sometimes it does take a person to bow down to another and say OK you win, we will do it your way.

But when two people do that, it is usually the person who presents the most reasonable case wins.

 

I am reasonable, you are unreasonable, I win.

I am being unreasonable, you are being reasonable, OK you win.

 

Fine. No problem. Only a highly irrational person would be upset losing in that scenario.

 

However, if you win despite being unreasonable, because of status, power, money, physical force etc. then I may concede that you win, but I am left feeling angry and resentful. My case was reasonable, but you won due to circumstances beyond my control, and that feels dreadful, it feels unfair and I will not forget that in a hurry. I am not feeling well disposed towards you and despite your attempts to appease me - just back off.

 

In this case if we ask the question, Is the husband being reasonable here, on being only willing to provide sex rarely and then only in bed at 10pm on the dot, then I guess most would say NO.

 

SO asking the OP to just let him have his way, as he is a man and he should not feel emasculated, may be a "solution", but because of the unreasonableness of his actions, she is still going to be angry and resentful by letting him carry on the way he wants to here.

 

He has no doubt "won" for the last 4 years. Have things improved? Have they even improved with counselling er...no.

So she is now at the end of her tether with his behaviour.

[salparadise]

SO asking the OP to just let him have his way, as he is a man and he should not feel emasculated, may be a "solution", but because of the unreasonableness of his actions, she is still going to be angry and resentful by letting him carry on the way he wants to here.

 

I did not mean to imply that what I said was a solution to the whole issue. It's obviously not. What I said is that she is escalating the situation... instead of it simply being a difference in sex drives, it turns into conflict and a battle of wills, and the one who is most successful at denying, hurting, frustrating the other is then presumed to be the winner? How rational does that sound to you?

 

If he desires sex, say once a week, at 10pm and she wants more... is cutting him off altogether and turning it into open hostility going to get her more sex or move her closer to fixing the problem? No it's not. Would you say it's rational then?

 

The whole thing about refusing to have sex at the time he is most willing is nothing more than a hostile, controlling expression of resentment in which she is cutting off her nose to spite her face.

 

If she wants a divorce it would be so much easier to just say, "we aren't sexually compatible, so I want out" than to play this mind phukk game and make a huge drama out of it. Rational people compromise to get what they want or need. If that's not possible, there's nothing wrong with saying I'm sorry that we can't reach agreement and I've decided to explore alternatives.

 

 

He has no doubt "won" for the last 4 years. Have things improved? Have they even improved with counselling er...no.

So she is now at the end of her tether with his behaviour.

 

I guess it should be assumed that she is entitled to as much sex as she can stand, eh? After all, she is the female. How is her wanting sex several times per day every day any more correct than him wanting it once or twice a week at 10pm? If the genders were reversed would you be saying that he's entitled to sex multiple times a day every day if she's not motivated?