Another stupid MM - my story

[Celestial-dreamer]

That's the beauty of people, we all dont see the same thing. I'm not seeing guilt or remorse. You say give him a break, what did he give his wife? No respect. No consideration. And now he is yet again lying to his wife about NC with his OW. How low can he get. I will add do NOT meet your OW for one last goodbye, your wife won't be happy about it and it proves your putting OW over your wife yet again. I cant understand why you want to even give her the time of day let alone time to simper over a lost love. One last hug, a kiss....where will your betrayal end? When your OW trots away happily? Let her go and concentrate on your wife. You've hurt her enough. Think last meeting is a massive mistake. Show your wife respect, tell her your still in contact with OW and planning on meeting her BEFORE you do then you will find its not in your or your wifes interest.

[Furious]

I ended it with the OW last Monday but she requested a final farewell meeting.

 

I have reservations about this, but she is hurting too, and I thought that a pleasant goodbye could be good for both of us and help us start on the road to bringing about closure and start to recover.

 

When the time is right, I will tell my wife that there was LC after DDay, but that NC followed immediately after the goodbye.

 

How ironic that you feel bad that OW is hurting and seeks closure with you, but seem to have no issue with the hurt she was a part of in hurting your wife.

 

When the time is right you will tell your wife it was LC and you and OW had a pleasant goodbye. Do you think your wife will take your kindness and consideration toward the OW as reflective over the unkindness and lack of consideration you both showed her.

 

How about you bring your wife along to your closure and pleasant goodbye to the ow. It could be done tactfully, now that would be true closure.

[qubist]

jenkins95: trust me on this, there is absolutely no need for a last farewell good buy, in fact in order for you to move on quicker you need to stay away from the OW ss much as you can. I know how you feel it is not easy, but seeing her will not make it easier. it will only delay your process at least till Monday and probably make the pain of both of you worst. a NC is a must in your case, it is not easy, but if you are sincere at fixing things up you should just man up and start a NC now

just send her a letter or a text apologize that you can handle the good bay and therefore can't see her and ask her nicely to respect your decision to go NC.

[S2B]

Well OP needs to start making things right. Once the A has been exposed, which it has (I think) as OP has had a Dday, there needs to be some kind of resolution. You don't keep stringing the OW along and placate your wife. I expect there to be wiffle waffling at first, but real change should be the name of the game, not more of the same.

 

Fair points ladydesigner. I ended it with the OW last Monday but she requested a final farewell meeting. I have reservations about this, but she is hurting too, and I thought that a pleasant goodbye could be good for both of us and help us start on the road to bringing about closure and start to recover. When the time is right, I will tell my wife that there was LC after DDay, but that NC followed immediately after the goodbye.

 

There won't be anything easy about another meeting with your OW. Sex may happen out of high emotions.

 

More than that your W could find out and that could be a deal breaker for reconciling.

 

Risking your marriage now, after all the pain you've already caused, in order to meet with the OW again may very well end your M.

 

Choose. You want your wife? Then don't ever meet the OW again.

 

It's over! It's over? IF it's over then there's nothing more to say to the OW.

[jenkins95]

Thanks so much for all the posts since yesterday at this critical time. I think you know how much it means to me. It is fairly unanimous from at least 8 posters that a goodbye meeting is a bad idea. I am in a dark, confused place and am not thinking straight, but that's why I come here to people who are thinking straight and have possibly dealt with these situations themselves. When I read your explanations, it becomes completely obvious and I would be foolish not to listen.

 

Thanks for being there for me.

[Dela]

Thanks so much for all the posts since yesterday at this critical time. I think you know how much it means to me. It is fairly unanimous from at least 8 posters that a goodbye meeting is a bad idea. I am in a dark, confused place and am not thinking straight, but that's why I come here to people who are thinking straight and have possibly dealt with these situations themselves. When I read your explanations, it becomes completely obvious and I would be foolish not to listen.

 

Thanks for being there for me.

 

hei Jenkins. i hope u are ok today.

i don t mean to disrespect anyone of the 8 people who said that a final meeting is a bad idea.

From my side as an OW/ExOW whatever, i say it is common sense to have that final meeting and don t end it thru text, email etc!!! Your relationship with her was not via text message, u didn t f**k or cried or laughed or shared moments on virtual places. Having a final meeting/goodbye in person shows integrity and that u re an adult and can have the minimum decency to break up with her in person. She deserves that! u were two adults in a relationship, stuff happened, u love each other. u don t just send a text saying good bye to someone u love.

If u love her.... if not, u can chose whatever option fits you.

But again, as an OW i say this is the best way! It s your choice afteral

[Celestial-dreamer]

hei Jenkins. i hope u are ok today.

i don t mean to disrespect anyone of the 8 people who said that a final meeting is a bad idea.

From my side as an OW/ExOW whatever, i say it is common sense to have that final meeting and don t end it thru text, email etc!!! Your relationship with her was not via text message, u didn t f**k or cried or laughed or shared moments on virtual places. Having a final meeting/goodbye in person shows integrity and that u re an adult and can have the minimum decency to break up with her in person. She deserves that! u were two adults in a relationship, stuff happened, u love each other. u don t just send a text saying good bye to someone u love.

If u love her.... if not, u can chose whatever option fits you.

But again, as an OW i say this is the best way! It s your choice afteral

 

 

DO NOT DO THIS.

Dela is speaking as the OW only thinking of herself. Your concern here is not the your OW it must be your wife. Ow knew the score, she made the decision to sleep with you. Your wife didn't. She deserves nothing. Specially as you want to R with your wife meeting her is the worst thing you can do to your wife. More disrespect. It's bad enough your still in contact behind your wife's back. How much more pain do you want to put your wife in? Are you willing to keep disrespecting her because poor OW wants to say goodbye? Do you really want to jeopardise your chance of R your wife had given you? Your second chance is a very special gift, not a right.

[elaine567]

I tend to agree with Celestial-dreamer and others.

Any normal relationship breaking up, can benefit from closure and so can affairs but because dday has occurred and the actual split from the OW was 10 days ago, then reconciliation needs to be your priority here. Hard may it be for your OW.

 

IF your wife ever found out that you were still in contact and still arranging to meet your OW, and it is not inconceivable that she will find out, then your reconciliation is dead in the water.

 

YOUR priority now HAS to be your wife, as she is your future, or so you say.

 

Meetings with OWs can turn into more and they can rumble into the occasional meeting, the occasional sex, the very carefully planned regular contact and before you know it is is back to business as usual, albeit more aware of potential discovery.

[Dela]

DO NOT DO THIS.

Dela is speaking as the OW only thinking of herself. Your concern here is not the your OW it must be your wife. Ow knew the score, she made the decision to sleep with you. Your wife didn't. She deserves nothing. Specially as you want to R with your wife meeting her is the worst thing you can do to your wife. More disrespect. It's bad enough your still in contact behind your wife's back. How much more pain do you want to put your wife in? Are you willing to keep disrespecting her because poor OW wants to say goodbye? Do you really want to jeopardise your chance of R your wife had given you? Your second chance is a very special gift, not a right.

 

 

so what? the OW doesn t deserve anything just because she knew what she was getting into?? ru serious? HE chose to have an affair with her and pursue her, so now HE needs to UNDO it. he can still R with the W.this is what he s doing anyway. The OW was part of his life as well. why should t she deserve a good bye? she s a human being. they shared something. if he walks away and choses to stay with his W, then by saying good bye (which i m sure she expects and she knows it s good bye) he shows her that she MATTERED! which she did. Jenkins says he loves her. so she matters.

he alsoloves his W and he is going to R and work on their marriage. he is starting to do things right! ending it right with the OW and start working on his marriage are the right things to do!

[S2B]

so what? the OW doesn t deserve anything just because she knew what she was getting into?? ru serious? HE chose to have an affair with her and pursue her, so now HE needs to UNDO it. he can still R with the W.this is what he s doing anyway. The OW was part of his life as well. why should t she deserve a good bye? she s a human being. they shared something. if he walks away and choses to stay with his W, then by saying good bye (which i m sure she expects and she knows it s good bye) he shows her that she MATTERED! which she did. Jenkins says he loves her. so she matters.

he alsoloves his W and he is going to R and work on their marriage. he is starting to do things right! ending it right with the OW and start working on his marriage are the right things to do!

 

He ended it already. No need to ever meet her again.

 

Moving forward the silence is the clearest message to the OW.

 

Integrity and honor should now be focus on where he made his vows if/ since he's staying married... Which should include never seeing or communicating with the OW again.

 

Any contact could possibly end his M.

[LifesontheUp]

I think you need to get away from both women. Spend time on your own and work out what you really want. JMO....................

[Dela]

I tend to agree with Celestial-dreamer and others.

Any normal relationship breaking up, can benefit from closure and so can affairs but because dday has occurred and the actual split from the OW was 10 days ago, then reconciliation needs to be your priority here. Hard may it be for your OW.

 

IF your wife ever found out that you were still in contact and still arranging to meet your OW, and it is not inconceivable that she will find out, then your reconciliation is dead in the water.

 

YOUR priority now HAS to be your wife, as she is your future, or so you say.

 

Meetings with OWs can turn into more and they can rumble into the occasional meeting, the occasional sex, the very carefully planned regular contact and before you know it is is back to business as usual, albeit more aware of potential discovery.

 

 

i agree this is one side to handle the situation. BUT why didn t he make his W top priority before and had to have an A? He wilingly decided to have an affair. i understand people are on his W side here and it is the right thing to do BUT (again) we are all human beings here. 20 min to meet the OW in a public place and tell her "look, i decided to stay in my marriage and work things out etcetcetc" it s the right things to do.

 

look around. there are plently of OW who were just dumped. just like that. after being in the A for years. some of them got a text, some of them got nothing! NOTHING AT ALL! u know what this does to someone? u know how bad it is to just think u never matter for that person u loved, that he could just dump u like that???

 

u are not beong fair here. of course the W is more important, that s why he is staying with her. but that doesn t mean he can t end it in a nice way with the OW, especially when he says HE LOVES HER!

i know it seems that OW don t deserve anything, but they do.

they loved and cared for those men and were there for them, things that MAYBE some wives forgot to do for many years!!!

 

Jenkins dear, u do what u want to do. in the end, it s your choice. u said my experience inspired u to do the right thing. i was the one who told u "IF U DON T WANT ANYTHING FROM UR OW, JUST LET HER GO!"

if u dump her like a piece of paper, she will think she never mattered to u, which is not true. i see that u love her. u said that u love her. if u care for her, do the right thing!

 

hugs

[Dela]

He ended it already. No need to ever meet her again.

 

Moving forward the silence is the clearest message to the OW.

 

Integrity and honor should now be focus on where he made his vows if/ since he's staying married... Which should include never seeing or communicating with the OW again.

 

Any contact could possibly end his M.

 

 

they r still in contact, so, to me, he didn t end anything

[Celestial-dreamer]

i agree this is one side to handle the situation. BUT why didn t he make his W top priority before and had to have an A? He wilingly decided to have an affair. i understand people are on his W side here and it is the right thing to do BUT (again) we are all human beings here. 20 min to meet the OW in a public place and tell her "look, i decided to stay in my marriage and work things out etcetcetc" it s the right things to do.

 

look around. there are plently of OW who were just dumped. just like that. after being in the A for years. some of them got a text, some of them got nothing! NOTHING AT ALL! u know what this does to someone? u know how bad it is to just think u never matter for that person u loved, that he could just dump u like that???

 

u are not beong fair here. of course the W is more important, that s why he is st.aying with her. but that doesn t mean he can t end it in a nice way with the OW, especially when he says HE LOVES HER!

i know it seems that OW don t deserve anything, but they do.

they loved and cared for those men and were there for them, things that MAYBE some wives forgot to do for many years!!!

 

Jenkins dear, u do what u want to do. in the end, it s your choice. u said my experience inspired u to do the right thing. i was the one who told u "IF U DON T WANT ANYTHING FROM UR OW, JUST LET HER GO!"

if u dump her like a piece of paper, she will think she never mattered to u, which is not true. i see that u love her. u said that u love her. if u care for her, do the right thing!

 

hugs

 

Who cares what ow wants now? She entered into it knowing he was married. She knew the score she didn't consider the wife only herself so why should there be any consideration now? You are saying its what YOU had and wanted. Its over, dday has been, time for Mr mm to stop all contact, no more betrayal, no more lies. He is still only thinking of himself and her, not his wife where his attention and loyalty should be. He owes OW nothing. He owes his wife everything.

[Lois_Griffin]

I get what Dela's saying and respect her opinion. However, any OW with the common sense God gave a dung beetle probably said to herself before crossing the line with a married man, "I know this will probably end badly but I'm going to do it anyway." I've seen it written a thousand times in a thousand different posts by a thousand OWs about to start an affair.

 

Well, the 'end badly' part has arrived.

 

This is what she gambled on when she chose to throw the dice. This is what she gambled on when she chose to join in on her MM's duplicity in helping him deceive his wife. And yes, she was duplicitous by agreeing NOT to openly call him at home on weeknights or on weekends, by NOT showing up at his house to take him to the movies or out for dinner, by NOT spending Sunday dinners with he and his family, by not shouting from the rooftops about their affair, by not showing up on Christmas with a gift for him, and by NOT sharing the knowledge of their affair with his wife and family. That makes her duplicitous.

 

So no. She doesn't 'deserve' anything more than what she gambled for.

 

This is called accountability for one's actions.

 

Make no mistake - married men who engage in affairs are dicks. Pure and simple. But just because they're dicks doesn't mean the OW is owed some kind of ceremonial 'goodbye' to remember him by. She knew he was a dick going in.

[Heatherknows]

He ended it already. No need to ever meet her again.

 

Moving forward the silence is the clearest message to the OW.

 

Integrity and honor should now be focus on where he made his vows if/ since he's staying married... Which should include never seeing or communicating with the OW again.

 

 

Complete NC and silence is the only way to truly end something. Any emails saying "Just wanted to know how you were doing" is ruining the progress and you have to start all over again.

 

Leaving an affair is the same as ending an addiction. If you felt passion for the OW it's going to be difficult but it can be done.

[S2B]

they r still in contact, so, to me, he didn t end anything

 

 

He said he ended it a week ago last Monday.

 

 

i agree this is one side to handle the situation. BUT why didn t he make his W top priority before and had to have an A? He wilingly decided to have an affair. i understand people are on his W side here and it is the right thing to do BUT (again) we are all human beings here. 20 min to meet the OW in a public place and tell her "look, i decided to stay in my marriage and work things out etcetcetc" it s the right things to do.

 

look around. there are plently of OW who were just dumped. just like that. after being in the A for years. some of them got a text, some of them got nothing! NOTHING AT ALL! u know what this does to someone? u know how bad it is to just think u never matter for that person u loved, that he could just dump u like that???

 

u are not beong fair here. of course the W is more important, that s why he is staying with her. but that doesn t mean he can t end it in a nice way with the OW, especially when he says HE LOVES HER!

i know it seems that OW don t deserve anything, but they do.

they loved and cared for those men and were there for them, things that MAYBE some wives forgot to do for many years!!!

 

Jenkins dear, u do what u want to do. in the end, it s your choice. u said my experience inspired u to do the right thing. i was the one who told u "IF U DON T WANT ANYTHING FROM UR OW, JUST LET HER GO!"

if u dump her like a piece of paper, she will think she never mattered to u, which is not true. i see that u love her. u said that u love her. if u care for her, do the right thing!

 

hugs

 

 

There's not ONE thing about an affair that is FAIR.

 

 

He has a wife. His alliance should be her. He married her.

 

IF he needs to see the OW again he should divorce first.

[Ladyjane14]

Exactly. OWs "gamble". They know the risks and they know they're hurting someone, meanwhile the wife is in the dark. And during the recovery phase after an affair, continued mistakes are COSTLY. They're trust killers.

 

Write a letter to the OW ending it with finality. Apologize for making the mistake of ever getting involved with her. Make sure to say that you're staying with your wife because you LOVE her and that you WANT the future you've got planned together. Tell the OW that you will NOT be responding to any attempts at contact and that you want her to respect your decision. Share this letter with your wife, get her approval on the final draft, then send it. Afterward, delete all possible modes of future contact.

 

Recovering wives aren't there for the beginning of an affair... but they need to be there for the end. You have to put her on the inside and the former AP on the outside. Your wife needs to know that you will no longer make autocratic choices that affect the outcome of her life. She needs to know that you intend to work with her always as a team. What you're doing when you're in continued secret contact with the OW is making a unilateral decision about what's best for YOU and not what's best for the marriage.

[truncated]

so what? the OW doesn t deserve anything just because she knew what she was getting into?? ru serious? HE chose to have an affair with her and pursue her, so now HE needs to UNDO it. he can still R with the W.this is what he s doing anyway. The OW was part of his life as well. why should t she deserve a good bye? she s a human being. they shared something. if he walks away and choses to stay with his W, then by saying good bye (which i m sure she expects and she knows it s good bye) he shows her that she MATTERED! which she did. Jenkins says he loves her. so she matters.

he alsoloves his W and he is going to R and work on their marriage. he is starting to do things right! ending it right with the OW and start working on his marriage are the right things to do!

 

 

Sorry, but the feelings of the ow are been considered, even if he chooses not to meet with her. He can certainly write her a long letter where he explains his feelings, choices and why he is doing what he is doing. In some ways, that can actually be helpful to her, as she will have something she can re-read when she needs to go over why it ended. When? it comes right down to it, what can he say face to face that can't be said in an email?

 

The op has identified that his wife and marriage are what he wants, and part of that means making them top priority. This means that the feelings of the ow will have to take a back seat. One can end a relationship in a way that is not cruel, gives closure and is final without it needed to be face to face.

 

As for it being unfair to her, you know, the whole affair was unfair to his wife, and the ow didn't care one iota, now she should suddenly be expected to care if it's unfair to the ow? His wife's feelings come first now, and if him having one final meeting with he ow will hurt her, then it shouldn't happen. If his wife is okay with it, then that's up to the op to decide what to do.

[truncated]

Exactly. OWs "gamble". They know the risks and they know they're hurting someone, meanwhile the wife is in the dark. And during the recovery phase after an affair, continued mistakes are COSTLY. They're trust killers.

 

Write a letter to the OW ending it with finality. Apologize for making the mistake of ever getting involved with her. Make sure to say that you're staying with your wife because you LOVE her and that you WANT the future you've got planned together. Tell the OW that you will NOT be responding to any attempts at contact and that you want her to respect your decision. Share this letter with your wife, get her approval on the final draft, then send it. Afterward, delete all possible modes of future contact.

 

Recovering wives aren't there for the beginning of an affair... but they need to be there for the end. You have to put her on the inside and the former AP on the outside. Your wife needs to know that you will no longer make autocratic choices that affect the outcome of her life. She needs to know that you intend to work with her always as a team. What you're doing when you're in continued secret contact with the OW is making a unilateral decision about what's best for YOU and not what's best for the marriage.

 

This is incredibly good advice, op, and some I hope you heed.

 

In your case especially, sending a good bye letter sounds like your best bet. It's final, and you say yourself that you express yourself better through writing.

 

Do let the ow know that you are sorry that she got hurt because of the choices you both made, but also that you don't want any further contact with her. No emails, texts, messages, etc.

 

In many ways, what you are doing is not only what's bets for you, but her as well. From what you say, her own life is messy right now ( recent break up from long term boyfriend because of the A) and she needs time to process that before jumping into another relationship.

 

I would fully expect that, not to long form now, she will have moved on with someone else and be happy with them.

[Popsicle]

I'm glad you Are ending the A, but I think it's a mistake to stay in this M and you will sink back into a depression.

[SummerDreams]

Jenkins hello, I hope you are doing good. I am reading the debate and I want to talk to only you. I wont ask any questions you are not ready to answer. I will just say, now it is the time to care about yourself, yes, more than your wife. Your wife was not there for you while you were depressed and she ignored your wishes, making her choices about herself, you and the kids. She is partly responsible for this mess. I am not clear yet on whether you want to stay with her after all this is over. You have said you got married young without knowing what you were getting into and your cultural differences had a huge impact on your relationship. You do love her ofc, she is a good woman, she is the mother of your kids, but whether you want to stay with her is another question you need to answer in time. So everyone taking it as a fact that the wife is the normal betrayed poor wife here is wrong. Him marrying her does not give her the right to ignore his wishes throughout the years. If she wants to win her husband back she needs to make some major changes and sacrifices as well. Him cheating does not erase her mistakes.

 

Jenkins, do YOU need to meet the OW and have a proper closure? If you do, go ahead and do it. You have spent years swallowing things and making sacrifices, now it is the time to look out for yourself. You know now that the affair was wrong so I trust a last meeting with the OW wont lead to a new beginning of the affair. Do what is best for you. I am here, hugs.

[ladydesigner]

I get what Dela's saying and respect her opinion. However, any OW with the common sense God gave a dung beetle probably said to herself before crossing the line with a married man, "I know this will probably end badly but I'm going to do it anyway." I've seen it written a thousand times in a thousand different posts by a thousand OWs about to start an affair.

 

Well, the 'end badly' part has arrived.

 

This is what she gambled on when she chose to throw the dice. This is what she gambled on when she chose to join in on her MM's duplicity in helping him deceive his wife. And yes, she was duplicitous by agreeing NOT to openly call him at home on weeknights or on weekends, by NOT showing up at his house to take him to the movies or out for dinner, by NOT spending Sunday dinners with he and his family, by not shouting from the rooftops about their affair, by not showing up on Christmas with a gift for him, and by NOT sharing the knowledge of their affair with his wife and family. That makes her duplicitous.

 

So no. She doesn't 'deserve' anything more than what she gambled for.

 

This is called accountability for one's actions.

 

Make no mistake - married men who engage in affairs are dicks. Pure and simple. But just because they're dicks doesn't mean the OW is owed some kind of ceremonial 'goodbye' to remember him by. She knew he was a dick going in.

 

This is an excellent post!

[truncated]

Jenkins hello, I hope you are doing good. I am reading the debate and I want to talk to only you. I wont ask any questions you are not ready to answer. I will just say, now it is the time to care about yourself, yes, more than your wife. Your wife was not there for you while you were depressed and she ignored your wishes, making her choices about herself, you and the kids. She is partly responsible for this mess. I am not clear yet on whether you want to stay with her after all this is over. You have said you got married young without knowing what you were getting into and your cultural differences had a huge impact on your relationship. You do love her ofc, she is a good woman, she is the mother of your kids, but whether you want to stay with her is another question you need to answer in time. So everyone taking it as a fact that the wife is the normal betrayed poor wife here is wrong. Him marrying her does not give her the right to ignore his wishes throughout the years. If she wants to win her husband back she needs to make some major changes and sacrifices as well. Him cheating does not erase her mistakes.

 

Jenkins, do YOU need to meet the OW and have a proper closure? If you do, go ahead and do it. You have spent years swallowing things and making sacrifices, now it is the time to look out for yourself. You know now that the affair was wrong so I trust a last meeting with the OW wont lead to a new beginning of the affair. Do what is best for you. I am here, hugs.

 

Sorry, but I find this post to be extremely offensive.

 

The op himself has said he suffered from depression, You DO NOT cause depression in someone else.

 

OP, I don't want to wear you down or make you feel guilty, but living with someone with depression can be absolutely draining, as it likely was for your wife. There is a good chance that part of why she wanted to stay where she was is that she had support there. She may well have been walking on eggshells, frightened she was going to make you feel even worse. It's also normal for the spouse of someone with depression or another mental illness to , in effect, take on a somewhat "parental" role in the relationship, as they may feel they need to keep track of thins and also they may be afraid of adding extra pressure onto their shoulders of their spouse.

 

She probably also felt guilty for not being able to help you, guilt that she did something to make you depressed ( as you now, depression is a chemical issue in the brain, and not something you can create in another person) , and now to suggest that she is also responsible for the op's affair is just plain unfair to her.

 

The op himself says that he was feeling better and the depression was lifting when he started the affair. In fact, it's part of the reason why the affair even started in the first place ( he felt better and decided to join a gym where he met the ow) .

 

Funny how his oppressive and domineering wife, who never let him do thins for himself, was fine with him dong things that made him feel better.

Edited August 19, 2015 by truncated

[jenkins95]

Hi everyone

 

Wow, I have been offline most of the day and come back to find so many posts since this morning. I see that the idea of goodbye meetings is a very emotive topic. As always, I really appreciate all the contributions - it is overwhelming. I have to go right now, but will read and re-read them all again this evening and will post again tomorrow. I have just scanned them quickly now and need time to properly read, analyse and digest them.

 

Thank you so much to everyone here who is helping and guiding me!