Another stupid MM - my story

[Furious]

Hi everyone

 

Yes, I am another idiot MM who has got himself into a real mess.

 

The fact that we each had partners made it seem OK, that nothing could come with it. Well, you can guess what happened next.

 

 

We started to get into that A fog, more and more needy, more lies, more sneaking around, taking less care to cover our tracks.

 

 

Then a couple of months ago, D-Day. Her BF discovered us and walked away immediately.

 

Things had already become very difficult, but now it was a nightmare and the dynamic changed between us.

 

She became more and more needy and had more spare time.

 

She was now the classic single OW. We stumbled on for a while not really knowing what to do.

 

I was uncomfortable at having a single OW, but needed her too much to let her go, and she needed me more than ever.

 

The OW has made it very clear that she wants to be with me, and I am completely lost.

 

All my original depression issues from years ago have come back worse than ever, plus a whole load more concerned with my OW situation.

 

I feel on the verge of a breakdown, and I’ve only got myself to blame.

 

I do love the OW and think of her constantly, but I feel I have to free her from this horrible situation, and can’t keep her hanging on.

 

I also care so much for my family and am so ashamed that I have compromised their position so appallingly with my selfish actions.

 

I won’t just leave them to go straight to the OW – I think it would be disastrous for everyone in the long term.

 

Yes, I realise that it is sickening to appear to be moral now when I didn't think of anyone but myself when all this started.

 

 

You had your chance with a real relationship with the OW when her boyfriend left her. But as you said she became the "classic" single OW, which is insulting by the way.

 

Jenkins you've also said in another post you never intended to leave your wife.

 

 

I hope single OW read your comments and re-read them and see that perhaps the OP is the "classic" married man.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Furious

[truncated]

Has the OP claimed he wants to reconcile wuth his wife? If yes, i am sorry to have missed it.

 

In post 79 ( and perhaps even sooner) he states that is what he wants to try and do.

 

"She is an amazing person who does not deserve any of this. I am going be honest with her and try to make her feel valued and respected. If we get through this, great. If not, we will try to end it properly and not by just running away to OW."

 

If this is what he truly wants to do, then meeting with the ow is off the table.

 

Doing so would be akin to telling his wife " I'm sorry I stuck this knife in your back, but can I give it just one more twist?"

 

I'm not saying that he should just "go dark" with his ow, as that would be very cruel to her, but rather that a long "goodbye and please don't contact me anymore" letter that explains why he making the decision he is i a far better route to take than the one final meeting plan.

 

After that, the ow will hopefully respect his wishes and leave him and his wife to heal, and she will find a way to do the same for herself. Far better that than dragging it out, causing extended pain for all sides, including herself.

[SummerDreams]

In post 79 ( and perhaps even sooner) he states that is what he wants to try and do.

 

"She is an amazing person who does not deserve any of this. I am going be honest with her and try to make her feel valued and respected. If we get through this, great. If not, we will try to end it properly and not by just running away to OW."

 

Well in this paragraph I see nowhere him saying he loves his wife, cant live without her and he wants like crazy her to forgive him and be a family again. Instead I feel he sees it as an obligation and the right thing to do since she is a good person and the mother of his kids. But here I am trying to find out what the best thing for the OP is and not what his obligation is - he has trapped himself in a life he didnt want for long enough, now it is time for him to decide what HE wants.

 

Jenkins, where are you? You are the only one able to answer these questions. You ok mate?

[truncated]

Well in this paragraph I see nowhere him saying he loves his wife, cant live without her and he wants like crazy her to forgive him and be a family again. Instead I feel he sees it as an obligation and the right thing to do since she is a good person and the mother of his kids. But here I am trying to find out what the best thing for the OP is and not what his obligation is - he has trapped himself in a life he didnt want for long enough, now it is time for him to decide what HE wants.

 

Jenkins, where are you? You are the only one able to answer these questions. You ok mate?

 

 

Sorry, but for some time now, the op hasn't been doing what is right for anyone but himself, or really thinking of his wife that much at all. . If he had been only thinking of his wife and children, he wouldn't have gotten into an affair. That was a 100% selfish move on his part.

 

 

Op, if one were to ask your wife about your marriage and your role in it, what do you think she would say? What do you think her view of it would be?

 

 

Something you wrote has been sticking in my mind, and I couldn't think of what it was. I reread your first post, and the following stuck out to me:

 

"I'm not sure why my depression lifted, but suddenly, I was happier and light enough to do things in my spare time. Previously I had no interest in anything other than sitting around watching TV and hiding my depression (so unhealthy I know). I enrolled in night classes, started losing weight (which had ballooned during my depression), meeting new people and being friendly and chatty for the first time in years. I started chatting to my tutor from the gym. "

 

I'm not saying your wife is a saint by any means, but this paragraph doesn't gel with a lot of the way your portray your wife. ( or the biased view of her you are getting from some former ow )

 

If your wife was soemone who was uber controlling and if you were only living your life for her and your kids she would likely never be okay with you doing this. She wouldn't trust you.

 

Yet she does. It sounds like she wanted you to do some things for yourself. You had the time in your life to conduct an affair. She doesn't know you cheated.

 

As for your marriage, whether or not you stay in it is something you need to decide for yourself, but for your own peace of mind, you need to "earn" your way out of it.By that I mean you need to know that you gave it 100% and it still wasn't possible to keep it going, so you left in an honorable way. After all, your kids are looking to you as a role model. what is it that you want to teach them?

 

In my opinion, if there is still something there with your wife that you feel you can build on, you owe it to your wife and kids to give it your best efforts. That means full honesty, NC with the ow, and you move form the mindset of being a married man with another woman to a former wayward spouse who wants to make things right.

[SummerDreams]

I find it amazing how some people think that by being fully honest and by making the OW disappear all the problems the married couple used to have are going to be solved. I also find it weird that a woman gets a free pass to make mistakes, neglect her husband, making her own decisions without discussing it with him and hearing his opinion etc only by being married to this man. Sometimes a ring and some vows are not enough to keep the love and forgiveness going forever. A married woman who rests in her ring and stops caring for her husband and/or her relationship takes the risk that her husband may fall out of love with her.

 

And I am not a former OW. In the contrary I try for my relationship every day and if I ever fail to do that I wont firstly accuse an OW for stealing my husband. I will firstly and mostly seek for the causes in what me and him did wrong and try to fix these mistakes.

 

Being called a former OW just cause I dont blindly consider the neglecting wife as a victim is disturbing and unfair in my eyes.

[Furious]

 

And I am not a former OW. In the contrary I try for my relationship every day and if I ever fail to do that I wont firstly accuse an OW for stealing my husband.

 

I will firstly and mostly seek for the causes in what me and him did wrong and try to fix these mistakes.

 

 

Oh my....you seem young and in a way sincerely hopeful, but if you were my daughter I'd say, darling you cannot control someone's free will, whether good or bad.

[truncated]

I find it amazing how some people think that by being fully honest and by making the OW disappear all the problems the married couple used to have are going to be solved. I also find it weird that a woman gets a free pass to make mistakes, neglect her husband, making her own decisions without discussing it with him and hearing his opinion etc only by being married to this man. Sometimes a ring and some vows are not enough to keep the love and forgiveness going forever. A married woman who rests in her ring and stops caring for her husband and/or her relationship takes the risk that her husband may fall out of love with her.

 

And I am not a former OW. In the contrary I try for my relationship every day and if I ever fail to do that I wont firstly accuse an OW for stealing my husband. I will firstly and mostly seek for the causes in what me and him did wrong and try to fix these mistakes.

 

Being called a former OW just cause I dont blindly consider the neglecting wife as a victim is disturbing and unfair in my eyes.

 

I don't think anyone is giving her a free pass. What they are doing is asking the op to be accountable for his decisions and his choices. We cannot ask his wife to do so, as she is not here.

 

We heard his view about what he feels she did wrong. What would her story be about what he did wrong during the marriage?

 

I give the op credit for recognizing some of his errors during the marriage. he admits that he would spend a lot of his free time hunkered down in front of the tv, Does this mean that he was disconnected from his wife, that he was leaving her with the bulk of the day to day household responsibilities, tasks and chores? Was he there for her when she needed him? Did he hold it against her that he wasn't living the life he felt he wanted? Was he kind and affectionate to her, or was he lost in his depression?

 

Most of the time, I would say that a mm who cheats is just being selfish, but in the op's case, depression played a factor, and I have seen firsthand what depression can do to one's judgment. His wife could have been the most supportive person in the world, and he would still say she was holding him back. Not his fault, as depression can skew the way you see the world.

[truncated]

Oh my....you seem young and in a way sincerely hopeful, but if you were my daughter I'd say, darling you cannot control someone's free will, whether good or bad.

 

True enough.

 

It goes round and round. where is his responsibility for the state of their marriage?

 

His wife didn't make him cheat. He did that all on his own.

 

This is a very important thing for him to keep in mind. After all, if he cheated because his wife "controlled him" (i.e.- "she made me do it") then he it at extremely high risk of doing it again. After all, one can only choose the things they have control over. What's to stop him from cheating on his ow should they get together? After all, she can't be 100% all of the time...no one can.

 

saying he is responsible for his choices and decisions actually empowers him to become a better man and role model for his kids.

[ShatteredLady]

I've had many different opinions throughout my life. I think all of us do. Many people who have affairs (or anything extreme really) have a way of rewriting history. You'll notice very few cheaters come here saying "My partner is wonderful. We have a great marriage but I'm starting to feel a bit old & out of shape so when this other person flattered me I couldn't resist chasing some new sex!". That's a conversation that comes long after DDay.

I believed that things in a marriage had to be terrible for someone to commit adultery. You live & learn. Life & psychology are a lot more complicated than that. I loved being an innocent romantic. I hope you never loose that. It's brutal.

[ladydesigner]

I find it amazing how some people think that by being fully honest and by making the OW disappear all the problems the married couple used to have are going to be solved. I also find it weird that a woman gets a free pass to make mistakes, neglect her husband, making her own decisions without discussing it with him and hearing his opinion etc only by being married to this man. Sometimes a ring and some vows are not enough to keep the love and forgiveness going forever. A married woman who rests in her ring and stops caring for her husband and/or her relationship takes the risk that her husband may fall out of love with her.

 

And I am not a former OW. In the contrary I try for my relationship every day and if I ever fail to do that I wont firstly accuse an OW for stealing my husband. I will firstly and mostly seek for the causes in what me and him did wrong and try to fix these mistakes.

 

Being called a former OW just cause I dont blindly consider the neglecting wife as a victim is disturbing and unfair in my eyes.

 

I get that being neglectful cause a risk to the M, but what if the WS was being neglectful as well, then what? Is it still the BS's fault for being chaeted on? I don't get this logic.

[Curdie]

I find it amazing how some people think that by being fully honest and by making the OW disappear all the problems the married couple used to have are going to be solved. I also find it weird that a woman gets a free pass to make mistakes, neglect her husband, making her own decisions without discussing it with him and hearing his opinion etc only by being married to this man. Sometimes a ring and some vows are not enough to keep the love and forgiveness going forever. A married woman who rests in her ring and stops caring for her husband and/or her relationship takes the risk that her husband may fall out of love with her.

 

And I am not a former OW. In the contrary I try for my relationship every day and if I ever fail to do that I wont firstly accuse an OW for stealing my husband. I will firstly and mostly seek for the causes in what me and him did wrong and try to fix these mistakes.

 

Being called a former OW just cause I dont blindly consider the neglecting wife as a victim is disturbing and unfair in my eyes.

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't see how a wife who apparently took over the majority of the household duties while her depressed husband vegged out on the couch all day is "neglectful." She's his wife, not his psychologist. It's not her job and she is not qualified to cure his depression.

 

Their kids haven't been taken into state custody so I'm guessing they were reasonably well taken care of. Sanitary living conditions, food in their bellies, medical needs taken care of, utilities paid, etc. It would seem that the bw was shouldering the responsibility for most of this. And then when jenkins started to come out of his depression he didn't help her out with the workload. He didn't reconnect with his family. No, he focused on himself! He went to the gym and had an A and made new friends, all while apparently leaving BW to fend for herself and the kids. But she's the neglectful party here? How does that work?

[Celestial-dreamer]

 

Being called a former OW just cause I dont blindly consider the neglecting wife as a victim is disturbing and unfair in my eyes.

 

And you know for a fact it was his wife who was the neglecting HIM? HE had depression for YEARS....HE neglected HER for years. SHE stood by him through it, do you know what it's like being with someone who is depressed? It's damn hard work! So your saying the man can do whatever he pleases, ignore the wife's needs then whinge about HIS needs not being met? It's a partnership, BOTH have to put in to it, it's not all take by one. Almost all MM's are that way, they ignore the wife's emotional needs but still demand sex, we NEED the emotional side, we need the affection, the little touches here and there, that grab and hold just because he wants you to know your the one he wants. A slow passionate kiss just because, no pressure of sex. We need certain things from our man to feel sexy for him that turns us on, not just come to you with his erection and say get to it. You are very one sided with your views, you believe the OW has the right to betray a wife because the poor MM was neglected? he does and will say whatever you want to hear to get your panties off.

[SummerDreams]

Maybe you are all right, maybe I am naive or inexperienced with serial cheaters. But in my long term relationship I am aware all the time how my bf feels, what he needs, is he happy? Is something bothering him? Is our relationship going through some tough period and do I need to change something in order to support him? And so does he of course. If my husband was all day on the couch depressed I would certainly not neglect him. I would try to understand him, push him in every way possible to see a therapist. When he would feel better I would try to join him at the gym, find new stuff to do together and so on. The OP has said that his wife ignored his wishes regarding the culrural raising of the kids and ultimately she thought she had her part of responsibility after she found out about his affair.

[Celestial-dreamer]

Maybe you are all right, maybe I am naive or inexperienced with serial cheaters. But in my long term relationship I am aware all the time how my bf feels, what he needs, is he happy? Is something bothering him? Is our relationship going through some tough period and do I need to change something in order to support him? And so does he of course. If my husband was all day on the couch depressed I would certainly not neglect him. I would try to understand him, push him in every way possible to see a therapist. When he would feel better I would try to join him at the gym, find new stuff to do together and so on. The OP has said that his wife ignored his wishes regarding the culrural raising of the kids and ultimately she thought she had her part of responsibility after she found out about his affair.

 

I'm currently watching my ex brother-in-law's marriage fall apart because he was recently diagnosed with depression, Yes, she kicked him out because she can't handle it. I can see the effect it's having on him though, dealing with a depressed person takes a lot of patience and understanding. Maybe his wife had had enough of mummying him? (like my BIL STBXW?) As you say though, you work at your relationship, that's the way to be. Both of you work at it. Most marriages get very one sided, where one drops the attention (usually the man) and the other is neglected but being as it's not something physical to be seen, emotional needs aren't seen as important. Sex isn't the only act that counts, meeting your partners emotional needs are just as important. Anyone in a relationship has the *job* of making sure their partner is happy in all ways, and if not, see what they can do together to sort it. Too many give up and cheat because it's easy, they would rather rip up their family than sit down and have an honest talk.

[Curdie]

Maybe you are all right, maybe I am naive or inexperienced with serial cheaters. But in my long term relationship I am aware all the time how my bf feels, what he needs, is he happy? Is something bothering him? Is our relationship going through some tough period and do I need to change something in order to support him? And so does he of course. If my husband was all day on the couch depressed I would certainly not neglect him. I would try to understand him, push him in every way possible to see a therapist. When he would feel better I would try to join him at the gym, find new stuff to do together and so on. The OP has said that his wife ignored his wishes regarding the culrural raising of the kids and ultimately she thought she had her part of responsibility after she found out about his affair.

 

Google codependency. There's a fine line between being helpful/supportive and being codependent/enabling. A mentally ill person, like an alcoholic, can only be treated if they take the initiative. Trying to solve all of your spouse's problems is unhealthy for both of you.

[truncated]

Maybe you are all right, maybe I am naive or inexperienced with serial cheaters. But in my long term relationship I am aware all the time how my bf feels, what he needs, is he happy? Is something bothering him? Is our relationship going through some tough period and do I need to change something in order to support him? And so does he of course. If my husband was all day on the couch depressed I would certainly not neglect him. I would try to understand him, push him in every way possible to see a therapist. When he would feel better I would try to join him at the gym, find new stuff to do together and so on. The OP has said that his wife ignored his wishes regarding the culrural raising of the kids and ultimately she thought she had her part of responsibility after she found out about his affair.

 

|I'm not trying to be rude to you, but it sounds like you have no idea what it's like to deal with someone who is actually suffering with clinical depression.

 

It's not the same as being sad, moody or down in the dumps. It's chronic, and isn't always reflected in feelings of sadness. It can also present as apathy, lethargy, disconnection and dissociation from those around you.

 

You also have the misconception that you can cause depression in someone else. You simply can't do that. It's caused by an issue with neurotransmitters in the brain,. They don't choose to feel the way they do.

 

Dealing with someone who has depression, especially if they are your spouse, can be really hard. One often ends up in the role of a parent out of necessity, as the depressed individual can find doing the day to day tasks and minutiae to be overwhelming.

 

You also can;t force someone into treatment ( unless they are a child or you have the legal right to make that decision for them). Often people with depression can't see that there will be any end to how they feel, and so they sort of disengage, and things get worse and worse.

 

This is why I'm sort of giving the op the benefit of the doubt here. It would be different if he had said " i was unhappy, so I just sort of decided to check out of the situation and lie on the couch all day".

 

As for his wife joining the guy with him, do you have any idea what she may have been feeling like after years and years of coping with living with someone with depression? Maybe she was happy he had found something he as interested in and wanted him to have some time to himself. Maybe he wanted that time on his own. Who knows?

 

No offense intended, but saying " I would do x, y and z with my boyfriend" is a very different kettle of fish that a long term marriage with children, etc. involved. They are not even in the same league.

[truncated]

Google codependency. There's a fine line between being helpful/supportive and being codependent/enabling. A mentally ill person, like an alcoholic, can only be treated if they take the initiative. Trying to solve all of your spouse's problems is unhealthy for both of you.

 

 

It also doesn't work. It's one thing to be there for them and say "I'm sorry you are coping with a mental illness. I love you, and I will stand by you through treatment and other ways you get help" it's quite another to say " I love you and I will be like your "mommy" while you can check out and get worse and worse and not try to get better".

 

The first is healthy and helps both, the second helps no one and leaves both miserable.

[waterwoman]

Maybe you are all right, maybe I am naive or inexperienced with serial cheaters. But in my long term relationship I am aware all the time how my bf feels, what he needs, is he happy? Is something bothering him? Is our relationship going through some tough period and do I need to change something in order to support him? And so does he of course. If my husband was all day on the couch depressed I would certainly not neglect him. I would try to understand him, push him in every way possible to see a therapist. When he would feel better I would try to join him at the gym, find new stuff to do together and so on. The OP has said that his wife ignored his wishes regarding the culrural raising of the kids and ultimately she thought she had her part of responsibility after she found out about his affair.

 

 

That sounds perfect. ANd it works if you are talking about a brief period of feeling a bit down, a sprained ankle or a dose of flu. Harder to do when the depression lasts for years and years and it makes your partner a really hard person to like let alone like. BTW I am the depressive in my marriage so beleive me I am sympathetic to the OP but refuse to accept that his wife was to blame for not loving him out of his mental illness.

[jenkins95]

Hi everyone

Wow, so many interesting and heartfelt posts. It's fascinating to read them. Thank you so much. Every single one means a lot and is all helping me to understand myself, my situation and how it is perceived by others, as well as what I should do next. I feel you there guys, I really appreciate it.

 

I have almost no internet at the moment and am at home looking after my kids, which is taking virtually all of my free time! But I am reading all these posts many times and thinking things over all the time. I feel you there. I will have a lot more to contribute when the kids go back to school after their summer holiday in early September. It's a bit hectic at the moment! I will also start IC then. In the meantime, I will contribute short posts, keep checking this thread and others and keep thinking it all over.

 

Thank you so much for all your efforts. It really is making such a difference.

[qubist]

Hi everyone

Wow, so many interesting and heartfelt posts. It's fascinating to read them. Thank you so much. Every single one means a lot and is all helping me to understand myself, my situation and how it is perceived by others, as well as what I should do next. I feel you there guys, I really appreciate it.

 

I have almost no internet at the moment and am at home looking after my kids, which is taking virtually all of my free time! But I am reading all these posts many times and thinking things over all the time. I feel you there. I will have a lot more to contribute when the kids go back to school after their summer holiday in early September. It's a bit hectic at the moment! I will also start IC then. In the meantime, I will contribute short posts, keep checking this thread and others and keep thinking it all over.

 

Thank you so much for all your efforts. It really is making such a difference.

If you do that and commit to it you will be fine

good luck

[jenkins95]

Hi everyone!

 

I just wanted to write a little message to thank you all again for your support on this thread. I have retreated a little into my own world for a couple of weeks while I think everything over and come to terms with what I have done. Your support and thoughts and opinions have been with me all the time and I can't thank you enough. I have red these messages so many times. Soon I will be strong and ready enough to write longer posts both on my own situation and also to try to be there for you guys too in dealing with your issues.

 

For now I just wanted to express how much LS and its wonderful members had helped me.

 

Could really do with hug if anyone is around...... Feeling quite low, but very slowly turning the corner I think!

 

All my best wishes, Jenkins x

[truncated]

OP,sorry to hear that you are feeling down again ...

 

I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not, but have you ever seen a medical doctor to get his or her opinion about your depression and what steps to take? While I would never suggest medication on its own, it can be really helpful in cases of true depression when combined with therapy.

 

There's a lot of different types available, from an herbal remedy like St. john's wort to SSRI's and SNRIs tricyclics and more. If your doctor feels that one of these is appropriate in your particular situation, they can help you decide which is best for you.

[waterwoman]

Hi Jenkins, let me offer a virtual hug from one depressive to another x. It really is a truly cruel condition - when you most need human warmth, distraction, exercise, fresh air and all those good things, all you want to do is to retreat into your cave. The only answer is to fight that urge with all your strength - see a doctor, take exercise, find things to do, ask for help from those who love you (not OW!). I have been there SO MANY times beleive me. Don't let the depression carry you down to its lair - it's a monster!

[SummerDreams]

Jenkins we are here for you. Remember that life has its ups and downs, we never stay at one place for long that's why we should appreciate the good times and not lose our hope during the bad times. What happened can be used by you in a creating and self improvement way rather than with disastrous and hopeless thoughts. You need some changes in your marriage, your wife, the way things are handled but most importantly in yourself. Take it step by step, one goal at a time, dont panic, and this way I am sure you will have results. Hugs.

[jenkins95]

Thank you so much for your messages of support guys! You are amazing! Great to see some familiar names coming to me when I asked for you! I knew you would be there for me.

 

I take all your points on board and I really appreciate all the solid advice about remedies, etc, which I will look into.

 

I want to make the point that while I am feeling down and a little depressed, I feel that it is for the right reasons! i.e. I am fully accepting and coming to terms with my selfishness, the hurt and damage I've caused and acknowledging my weaknesses, vulnerabilities and my dark side. What I did was wicked, and I am not hiding behind excuses or validations any more. I am facing it full on. This is a part of the process of recovery and I think there is genuine hope there.

 

I reached rock bottom a few days ago and I feel I am starting to come out the other side. I don't want to say too much too soon in case I relapse, but the signs are really encouraging.

 

I just want you to know that you guys have made a genuine difference to a very lost soul. You have helped me find direction and strength and I will never forget your warmth and support.

 

I will post more soon! I feel I will be back to my normal posting self very soon!