Trying to understand the OW

[Mr. Lucky]

He keeps telling me he is determined to make our M work, he didn't consider her a 'soul mate' etc but I keep saying if you didn't feel a connection why the hell did you continue for 2 years? I questioned if it was the sex and he claims no, since the novelty wore off after a while and they weren't even doing it frequently towards the end. He says it was to fill an emotional void as she would praise him and showed him affection which he felt I was not giving.

 

You've been asked a couple of times but I didn't see an answer - out of all the challenges on your plate, why is her role and knowledge of your WS's marital status important to you? And if you knew for sure, what would you do with the answer?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Furious]

 

The OW did not 'drop' him - I made him do that. When I found out I forced him to give me her number and I called her on his mobile and identified myself as his W. She was extremely calm and collected but before I could question her further she cut off the phone.

 

I made him call her on speaker phone (about 6 hours after my call to her) and tell her he is not to contact her again. I kept very quiet the entire time so she could not tell it was on speaker mode.

 

The strange thing is when she answered I expected her to rant at him since she was a victim who never knew he was married (at the time I didn't know all the information I know now from him) and she just hung up.

 

One week later she contacted him asking him to buy something for her but I told him he was not allowed to respond. I have since blocked her on social media and his phones so unless she physically turns up in person, none of her calls or messages will get through.

 

You have your answer. Instead of shock that he's married she hangs up on you but a week later called your husband asking him to buy something for her.

 

He probably apologized to her that you made him call her and demand NC. The affair has most likely gone underground.

 

Sorry, but you're playing the pick me dance and the marriage police. Is that ok with you? Why aren't his clothes on the lawn and the locks changed. Why aren't you getting legal advice and thinking more about yourself than two liars who have deceived you for two whole years?

[BTR]

You've been asked a couple of times but I didn't see an answer - out of all the challenges on your plate, why is her role and knowledge of your WS's marital status important to you? And if you knew for sure, what would you do with the answer?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I've been questioning him a lot to try and find answers and I feel I've asked all I can possibly ask from him. I know in my head that speaking to her would not help since she probably will lie anyway but it's a morbid sense of curiosity I suppose? I am angry with him and with her but maybe if I see her as a victim I won't be so angry with her? I really don't know what to think. Initially I was ready to forgive as I felt his remorse was genuine but now I am starting to think otherwise as I cannot accept it lasted for 2 years

[qubist]

I've been questioning him a lot to try and find answers and I feel I've asked all I can possibly ask from him. I know in my head that speaking to her would not help since she probably will lie anyway but it's a morbid sense of curiosity I suppose? I am angry with him and with her but maybe if I see her as a victim I won't be so angry with her? I really don't know what to think. Initially I was ready to forgive as I felt his remorse was genuine but now I am starting to think otherwise as I cannot accept it lasted for 2 years

there is nothing she can tell you that would help you forget about her, and BTW she is not a victim, how could she be if she called a week later asking for gifts?? the only thing your H is honest about is that he doesn't love her in fact he only loves himself. this is common in all MM's Affairs, they want the wife at home a mistress for extra fun in that regard she could be a victim but you shouldn't worry about her. I suggest an IC first before a MC. you have to make sure that you are fine anger free, pain will go away with time I guess. be honest with him do not hide anything tell what you believe tell him that you think he is still lying

[unluckycharms]

I was on the other side of your story (I unknowingly dated someone married, though not for as long) and I found that "why" was my most common question when I found out about his marriage and yet has been the least helpful when it comes to healing. I wanted to understand how someone could deceive me about so much and, like you, I wanted to know how his wife had no idea he was carrying on another relationship. But at the end of the day, an explanation wouldn't take away the pain or help me decide how to move forward.

 

To answer your original question, in my situation, I think it was a combination of not being ready for a "real" relationship and therefore subconsciously seeking out someone unavailable (I'd just been hurt by an ex), naïveté and working crazy hours so that I didn't really take the time to investigate. There was also a bit of denial and willful blindness towards the end. I wouldn't trust your husband's story - liars don't stop and change overnight just because they got caught.

Edited August 6, 2015 by unluckycharms
Hit submit too fast

[RightThere]

I think if I can truly believe she was being deceived the entire time by him I would feel less hostility with her but knowing all the facts (and there's probably more which I do not recall at the moment) I'm actually 1000% convinced she knew.

 

Not sure what I want but perhaps some insight into the OW mind by someone who has been there would be helpful.

 

Basically you're trying to understand why someone does not have the same moral standard as you.

 

And that is hard to come to terms with as a BS, but you need to let that go. Some people just do bad thing, like it, and don't care about your feelings.

[Noideanow]

We dont think about you, you are not there, we only focus on us and the love we have, we see a man empty of love and we fall and see him fall too, and without love the species wouldnt survive so we surrender to the powers of it with no bad concience, afterall you must be just as empty of love as he was? Love just takes over// later on we hate you for not setting him free, but all we want is for you to be happy as we are:(

[sandylee1]

If I didn't go to my BFs house for 2 years, I would believe he was hiding something. I need to know where the man I'm seeing lives.

 

He could be lying about her not knowing to protect her because she's married. Or so that you don't try and contact her.

 

It's funny how people say the OW/OM is not your problem and I get the context, but yet the OW more so spend enough time demonising the BW, who shouldn't be their problem at all.

 

Do you know the OWs name?

Is the affair over ? As it could have been taken underground .

 

I think I'd want to know the truth about whether she knew, but even if you contacted her, how could you trust she's being truthful?

 

If he's spun this story to you, he will have told her about it.

 

If you are considering reconciliation, I would demand a polygraph to ascertain if he's being honest about his lie!

 

That way, I'll know exactly what I'm dealing with. If she does know and he's trying to protect her, then it would be marriage over for me. I'm sorry but a monthly vacation is not what a regular couple do.

 

Apologies if I've repeated something as I just read the first page.

[Redheaded Mistress]

Yeah... They're still together. They've been at this awhile so they had a D-Day plan. They're now executing it, hence her quietness and her breezy text about him picking her up something after the D-Day.

 

You made him dump her. You made him... He didn't do it without you making him do it. That's the key right there.

 

I've BTDT, it's pretty clear they're doing it too.

[sandylee1]

 

When I found out I forced him to give me her number and I called her on his mobile and identified myself as his W. She was extremely calm and collected

 

but before I could question her further she cut off the phone.

 

I expected her to rant at him since she was a victim who never knew he was married

 

One week later she contacted him asking him to buy something for her

 

 

She knew he was married without a doubt now that I've read this ^^^

He's protecting her and protecting your mistress shouldn't be okay with you.

 

Your H is lying to you non stop and reconciling with a cheating liar is not a good idea.

Why didn't he make an appointment with a counsellor before the affair? All of a sudden he'll do anything ....

 

I don't buy it. You need all the facts before you decide if you can reconcile.

 

A secret life for 2 years.....He could have have had other affairs. Most cheaters lie about the duration of the affair, I reckon it's been more than 2 years.

 

A very useful line to follow through with for a WS is that you want the truth about:

 

How long it's gone on?

If there were any other affairs ?

If so, how many and what duration ?

Did they plan for a future together ?

Add anything else you want to ask here

 

Then you say in no uncertain terms that if he lies about any of this , you will file for D. He has this one chance to tell you the whole truth

 

Consider asking your H if he could get through a 2 year betrayal and how you could convince him you were worth it if the tables were turned.

 

Do you really want to be tracking , monitoring and checking his tech for the next few years? Can you live like that?

[Mr. Lucky]

I am angry with him and with her but maybe if I see her as a victim I won't be so angry with her? I really don't know what to think. Initially I was ready to forgive as I felt his remorse was genuine but now I am starting to think otherwise as I cannot accept it lasted for 2 years

 

Any feeling for her - anger or forgiveness - is wasted energy at a time you need to be conserving resources.

 

If she was a paid escort, would you feel any different about what your husband has done? And the length of time he's done it?

 

There's a lot of work to be done and he's the one that needs to do it. I'd stop playing detective and sit back, watch and make some decisions...

 

Mr. Lucky

[minimariah]

Any feeling for her - anger or forgiveness - is wasted energy at a time you need to be conserving resources.

 

this.

 

focus on your H, OP. if you suspect that the A is still going strong and if it turns out to be true - what is your next move?

[BROKENOW]

Basically you're trying to understand why someone does not have the same moral standard as you.

 

And that is hard to come to terms with as a BS, but you need to let that go. Some people just do bad thing, like it, and don't care about your feelings.

 

It's really nothing to do with that. The affair was two years so it wasn't just physical. I never chested on anyone in my life till I met Mm at 40. He just turned me . and I loved him

[BROKENOW]

Yeah... They're still together. They've been at this awhile so they had a D-Day plan. They're now executing it, hence her quietness and her breezy text about him picking her up something after the D-Day.

 

You made him dump her. You made him... He didn't do it without you making him do it. That's the key right there.

 

I've BTDT, it's pretty clear they're doing it too.

 

When mm ended with me it was obvious he had to... Next day he was calling me and came to my house. BS didn't believe me

 

Also earlier in the affair I believed him when he said they were separate lives as he spent so many days with me. I would've questioned it otherwise

Edited August 7, 2015 by BROKENOW

[BTR]

A very useful line to follow through with for a WS is that you want the truth about:

 

How long it's gone on?

If there were any other affairs ?

If so, how many and what duration ?

Did they plan for a future together ?

Add anything else you want to ask here

 

Then you say in no uncertain terms that if he lies about any of this , you will file for D. He has this one chance to tell you the whole truth

 

Consider asking your H if he could get through a 2 year betrayal and how you could convince him you were worth it if the tables were turned.

 

Do you really want to be tracking , monitoring and checking his tech for the next few years? Can you live like that?

 

Yes I have asked those questions. Initially I was told it was 1 year, then as I asked more and more and found inconsistencies I gather its about 2 years. He can't even tell me the month it started and claims why he said it was 1 year was because that was when they started seeing each other everyday. Even though they screwed within 1 month of knowing each other (initially only met once a week).

 

He claims this is the first and only affair despite me questioning again and again and threatening D if I were to uncover any more lies.

 

She mentioned marriage and kids but he says he never intended to leave so would brush it off.

 

I'm still reeling and I know it will take time for me to take it all in. Hopefully the counselling with the therapist will help

[seren]

We are almost 7 years along from H's affair, his first and hopefully, his last. I trust that it will not happen again, but after learning of the A, I now never say never. What I do say never to is that if there were another our marriage and relationship would be over, end of. There were particular circumstances when H had his affair that aren't going to occur again, not excuses, reasons. Not all people who cheat go on to repeatedly cheat, not many tell the whole truth right away, mostly to limit damage and try to lessen the blow, as if that is even remotely possible. Cheating for one hour, one month, one year and so on, is still cheating. I always thought time was immaterial.

 

I get the obsessing about who the OW was and is, the need to understand the dynamics of the A. I used to want to put a face to her incase I was kind to her without my knowing, as it was I was kind even when I did know who she was. My thoughts are if you are to forgive your H then it really doesn't matter if she knew or not. I have no opinion on whether it is ongoing, who knows, but you have to trust it isn't if your reconciliation is to work.

 

It reads like you have taken the lead in blocking, stopping, making him call etc. I never did this, but I did ask her then told her to stop ringing our home as it was a pain in the a*** with all the hang up calls and nasty stuff directed at me. I also let her know that no, he wasn't stopped from calling her, or chained up in the cellar, his lack of communication was all down to him and no surprise to me whatsoever. Conflict avoidance at its best.

 

Right now it is for your H to step up, the OW should not be your concern. I hope she has someone to support her, but that is not your place, nor his. I got to know almost everything, mainly from OW, who I almost felt sorry for. But, had H continued to lie once the trickle truth period was over, he would have been delivered with a big bow around him and I love this man with all that I have.

 

I would say that as all people are different, as all marriages are different, so are all affairs and those who take part in them. It is hard to get your head around and try to understand if affairs aren't part of what you believe in, it's hard enough for those who do when they are deceived. You either take a leap of faith and work on reconciling or you walk, there is no middle ground. Leave the OW to the past. Your husband is no longer a cheater, he is someone who is trying to reconcile, how true that is, only you and he will know but it sounds like he is at least trying. I hope it all goes well look after you first.

[Minnie09]

Based on the very first post here, I suspect that the other woman did know. Definitely. But she just didn't care. Some other women are that way. They just don't care about the M, because all they focus on is what they get out of the A. End of story. She was not deceived.

 

As far as the husband is concerned, I don't trust him at all. He gives half-truths and comes out with more truths as soon as BS finds out more. Trickle trickle. That's not forthcoming and that's not being honest. That's not how you save a marriage that is seriously in trouble (due to your poor choices), if the M is really important to you. That is not how you make your hurt BS feel safe and better about herself and hopeful about the M. Counseling or not. I have seen so many people lying in counseling and there's nothing anybody can do about it, not the counselor and not the W. It's just another dishonest tactic on the part of the WS, in order to get the betrayed spouse off his back. And once that happens, once they act that way, careless and in damage control mode and indifferent with regards to anybody else's feelings, I think you can no longer reconcile. That ship has sailed far far away. The BS will always doubt. The WS will always minimize. And if enough time has passed, the WS will try again. With somebody else. Or with the xOW. It will never stop.

[the_artist_1970]

Yes I have asked those questions. Initially I was told it was 1 year, then as I asked more and more and found inconsistencies I gather its about 2 years. He can't even tell me the month it started and claims why he said it was 1 year was because that was when they started seeing each other everyday. Even though they screwed within 1 month of knowing each other (initially only met once a week).

 

He claims this is the first and only affair despite me questioning again and again and threatening D if I were to uncover any more lies.

 

She mentioned marriage and kids but he says he never intended to leave so would brush it off.

 

I'm still reeling and I know it will take time for me to take it all in. Hopefully the counselling with the therapist will help

 

All you can do is continue to ask whatever questions you need to ask and pray that he is telling the truth. In the meantime get into IC because you will go through PTSD. Also work on becoming the best person you can be mentally, physically and healthy. I started a kickboxing class after D-Day and then started weight training to work out my frustrations. I am really proud of my physique and where I am mentally and physically. I also started a "mad cash fund" and I have a lot stashed away, just in case.

 

It has been seven years and things are going well. I don't worry about whether my DH will cheat and the XOW was an "incident/tragedy" that happened in our marriage which we overcame. If your DH is lying, the truth will come out. Just prepare yourself to leave him if he is continuing to lie. If your hubby doesn't appreciate an honest and faithful W who loves him, there is another guy out there who will. You need to realize that you are a winning prize. I found out that divorce isn't the end of the world and this chick is ready to go it alone if hubby thinks he needs more than one woman again. Find ways to build your confidence and know that his cheating is on him and not on you. He is the one who is broken.

[sandylee1]

Yes I have asked those questions. Initially I was told it was 1 year, then as I asked more and more and found inconsistencies I gather its about 2 years. He can't even tell me the month it started and claims why he said it was 1 year was because that was when they started seeing each other everyday. Even though they screwed within 1 month of knowing each other (initially only met once a week).

 

He claims this is the first and only affair despite me questioning again and again and threatening D if I were to uncover any more lies.

 

She mentioned marriage and kids but he says he never intended to leave so would brush it off.

 

I'm still reeling and I know it will take time for me to take it all in. Hopefully the counselling with the therapist will help

 

 

Then he needs to prove it to you by taking a poly. His reaction to the request may be telling..he could agree immediately to throw you off. No matter what he says , just insist that it still happens. Unless he admits to enough that you decide on D.

 

Questioning a liar won't get you anywhere. He'll keep lying till you can prove otherwise. He's already lying that she didn't know he was married. What's the point of passwords when he can get a second phone. If you monitor expenditure, then the OW buys him the phone and they continue with secret email accounts.

 

Have you seen any messages between them?

Have you tried to recover deleted texts from his phone?

You need to know what you're dealing with

You can't track him like a prisoner on parole.

 

The night before a poly one WS confessed to 8 more affairs, on top of the 2 his BW knew about. She cancelled the poly, because that was enough for her to know she couldn't be with him anymore.

 

They'll be low contact till you relax and you have to make him know that you ending the marriage is a definite possibility.

 

A little taste of life without you would be good for him. Try separating for some breathing space and see if he's still at it. Remember to never reveal your sources.

 

I suggest you do the 180 and prepare for a life without him.

 

Start going out in the evening with friend

Start a hobby that takes you out of the house

Invest time in yourself

Get a new hairdo /makeover /new outfits

Go for a relaxing spa day/weekend

 

Can I ask what consequences he's faced for this? Has life been not too bad since dday that he'd do it again?

 

A slap on the wrist isn't enough.

[ladydesigner]

BTR if I were you I would start monitoring like the marriage police. Let him know you expect him to keep up his end of NC or you are done. Don't tell him your methods but if I were you I would go underground as well and plant Voice Activated Recorders and definitely keylogger on the computer and phone. You can also set up a GPS without him knowing.

 

I have found that if you give them enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

 

Good Luck and look up the 180 and start implementing for YOU not him. Start detaching a little bit this way you will gain more clarity of the actual situation.

 

Big hugs to you and I am sorry you are here.

 

I agree with the other poster who said "who cares" what the OW thinks. This OW is not thinking of you or your well being that is all you need to know.

[bathtub-row]

The day a man has me guessing and questioning his whereabouts is the day I cut him loose. Ask my ex-husband about how that worked out...

[Noideanow]

Yes you are (Right) fullofbull**** we dont Care, why should we let at our love pass us by because of your wishes, is your happiness worth more than ours? You Cannot control another person if your spouse loves somebody else you set them free and are happy for them (or make plans so that all of you Can be satisfied), afterall dont you wish to be loved too? I sure hope you Will be:cool:

[confusedmandi]

Thanks everyone for the insight. It's really good for thought. Just to share more, he's doing his own business now so traveling is not uncommon but he has now stopped it completely since d-day. I found out after I got a PI to track him as I had a nagging feeling but didn't think it would really be true. We just started counseling - he sought out the counsellor and asked me to join. He has been showing remorse but I don't know if I can trust him anymore. He's been home early every day, tells me his every move, put in an app for me to track his whereabouts etc but I know he can easily bypass all these if he really wanted to have another A. The OW did not 'drop' him - I made him do that. When I found out I forced him to give me her number and I called her on his mobile and identified myself as his W. She was extremely calm and collected but before I could question her further she cut off the phone. I made him call her on speaker phone (about 6 hours after my call to her) and tell her he is not to contact her again. I kept very quiet the entire time so she could not tell it was on speaker mode. The strange thing is when she answered I expected her to rant at him since she was a victim who never knew he was married (at the time I didn't know all the information I know now from him) and she just hung up. One week later she contacted him asking him to buy something for her but I told him he was not allowed to respond. I have since blocked her on social media and his phones so unless she physically turns up in person, none of her calls or messages will get through.

 

He keeps telling me he is determined to make our M work, he didn't consider her a 'soul mate' etc but I keep saying if you didn't feel a connection why the hell did you continue for 2 years? I questioned if it was the sex and he claims no, since the novelty wore off after a while and they weren't even doing it frequently towards the end. He says it was to fill an emotional void as she would praise him and showed him affection which he felt I was not giving.

 

 

Now I've never been an OW but was cheated on by my exH. I'm telling you that this woman meant a lot to him. A guy doesn't cheat with the same gal for TWO YEARS and it not mean anything. If he says it was for emotional reasons they def had an emotional as well as physical bond. I bet anything he is still seeing her. That's why she didn't engage with him when you forced him to call. She knew what was up. She probably sent him the email asking him to buy her something (who in the hell would do that after a breakup?) so he could "prove" to you he will ignore you. They have probably taken this underground. You can block his phone ,he can come home early etc. But he can go buy a disposable phone and talk to her that way, they can set up secret email accounts. There are apps on phones where you can communicate without being detected. unfortunately it is VERY easy to cheat.

 

When a spouse cheats on you it damages you permanently. It rips out your soul. you will never look at your partner the same way again. Please stop caring what the OW did or didn't know. The truth is your husband KNEW HE WAS MARRIED. and he blatantly chose to disrespect you and his marriage vows. Why would you expect more from a total stranger than you do of your own husband? If you choose to forgive your husband for cheating for TWO YEARS then OW shouldn't even be a thought in your head because you would certainly have to forgive a complete stranger who owes you nothing for doing the same thing your committed partner did to you. Odds are she didn't know at first then found out after she loved him so maybe she didn't care. Your husband didn't care about you and that he owed you to not betray you. So just forget the OW. I hope my words weren't too harsh. I'm only trying to get you to see the reality of the situation. No one should have to babysit their partner in order to trust them. He's being way to eager to prove to you that he's committed. I think he's trying to reassure you because he wants to go back to his double life undetected. Keep your eyes open

[BTR]

Thabks to all for the posts. It has helped me get the OW thoughts out of my system. Yes I know my focus should be on WH and how I want to proceed.

 

When you say you made him dump the OW? Did he express wanting to keep her? Because he should have been begging

 

Did you tell him he could be with her if he wanted?

Because as much as that's hard, if he wants another woman let him go.

 

I suspect the truth is he wants both of you. Typical selfish nonsense.

 

For d-day, he was with OW when I found out. I immediately called and told him I knew and to never come home. He of course rushed back and had left OW stranded without a ride (not sure if she had any money on her as she was in running attire). He says she was shocked when he said he had to leave and questioned how she was to get home. He says his first thoughts were to get back and he didn't care what happened to her. Since then I have been telling him he can go ahead and carry on with her but of course that will mean we will D. He has said he has no desire to contact OW and says that the NC rule was good for him and he feels relieved to be caught as he found living a double life very frustrating (yet not enough to stop? I keep harping on that... He claims he tried but didn't know how to and didn't want anyone to get hurt).

 

Since then I seriously doubt there have been any contact (at least not in person) with OW as there are no opportunities. There is no way to retrieve past messages as it was all via messaging apps (trust me I tried). He offered to install spyware on the phone but I see no point as I know all these measures can be bypassed.

 

I would say other than my giving him the cold shoulder and the initial screaming, consequences for him have not been much. I see no point in making him suffer. He claims he is suffering seeing me so hurt and has been trying to change his ways by now being involved in the kid's homework, household matters and basically taking over what I used to singlehandedly do.

 

In the meantime, I have done what some here have suggested - started to look after myself more, get into shape etc. There have been recent occasions where other MM have subtly expressed interest in me and I have intentionally told him this (I am not having an A, I couldn't do the same to another spouse) and I can see the hurt in his eyes but he says he has no right to stop me since he did the same thing.

 

I don't know if I can trust him but I'm still taking time to see how it plays out.

[whichwayisup]

Let him prove to you to that he means what he says. Don't think the OW is just gonna disappear and never be heard from again. He left her in the dust without a second thought. Of course she is going to try to contact him, try to see him, try to talk it out with him.

 

Actions speak louder than words. If you aren't sure, send him to counseling on his own and you two do marriage counseling together *use the same therapist for both*, and also separate. If he truly wants to work hard to get you back, he'll do everything possible to make that happen. Allow him to work his ass off for that second chance with you and don't settle for half assed attempts so he can sneak off and still be in contact with the exOW.