Trying to understand the mind of a MM

[Crazy_Love]

When I first met my xMM, I was told that he and his W never had sex, which I later found out to be untrue, they had a very regular sex life. I was very naive and trusting and had not yet discovered this forum.

 

One of the things he told me all the time during the four years we were together was that life with her was "barely tolerable" and he was not happy, but had no desire to change his situation. Being also his best friend, and wanting him to be happy, I counseled him to take them to see a counselor, that there were ways to fix it. He would reply, "I'm not interested." But he never explained to me why.

 

I once flat out asked him: If you're miserable, why don't you fix it or get out? He never replied and skirted around the issue. They had no kids, and he's been married once before (he filed for divorce) so I know he's capable.

 

Is the logical conclusion that he was lying to me? Or that it simply wasn't bad enough to do anything about?

 

I know it doesn't matter any more but there have been so many other posts here relating to that same subject, I'm just trying to understand the mind of a MM.

[Ifalltopieces]

I don't think they have the kind of minds that normal people can understand. It's in their nature to lie and deceive.

 

I think part of the problem is that they convince themselves of their own lies. I don't believe people who cheat are happy. However, I think the leval of unhappiness is different for each person. These so called men have to justify their behavior..so they lie to themselves and the OW about the extend of it. They lie for the sole purpose of getting what they want and they don't give two sh*** about who they destroy in the process.

 

They are calculated and selfish pigs. I also believe most of them are cowards. Which is why they choose to cheat vs actually put work into their oh so terrible marriages.

[jaskiegs]

LS is a tough place to get an answer like that. On the one hand, you have xMM like me that often post justify behavior. On the other hand, you have xAPs that have been hurt and are recovering and so see the worst in xMM.

 

But I suspect that the story is different for everyone. In your case, blatant lies about sex with the W lead me to believe that he was what people here call a cake eater.

 

In my case, I hate conflict and sometimes operate out of fear (money, comfort, kids). The mind of a MM is likely as varied as anyone else's. Buy at LS, most strokes are painted broadly.

 

Good luck in your recovery. As a MM in a recently ended A, I come here to read the stories about the results of my behavior but I do hope that you find happiness.

[FusionCutter]

When I first met my xMM, I was told that he and his W never had sex, which I later found out to be untrue, they had a very regular sex life. I was very naive and trusting and had not yet discovered this forum.

 

I know it doesn't matter any more but there have been so many other posts here relating to that same subject, I'm just trying to understand the mind of a MM.

 

• 
  He lied to you.
  He lies to his wife.
  Therefore, he's capable of manipulating both people's realities.
  

 

What exactly is there to understand?

[sandylee1]

I think I would draw the conclusion that he was lying about it being barely tolerable. No kids to keep him there either.

 

It's not uncommon for a cheater to say they ended their previous marriage or that their spouse cheated. Then it transpires that they weren't the ones that filed or that they were the ones that cheated.

 

Some people, male and female included are just incapable of being monogamous. They like the thrill of an affair and leaving their wife /husband for the AP, takes that thrill away. That feeling like a teenager in love all over, just disappears when the relationship gets real.

[Goodbye]

LS is a tough place to get an answer like that. On the one hand, you have xMM like me that often post justify behavior. On the other hand, you have xAPs that have been hurt and are recovering and so see the worst in xMM.

 

But I suspect that the story is different for everyone. In your case, blatant lies about sex with the W lead me to believe that he was what people here call a cake eater.

 

In my case, I hate conflict and sometimes operate out of fear (money, comfort, kids). The mind of a MM is likely as varied as anyone else's. Buy at LS, most strokes are painted broadly.

 

Good luck in your recovery. As a MM in a recently ended A, I come here to read the stories about the results of my behavior but I do hope that you find happiness.

 

 

Did you end it with OW or did she?

[jaskiegs]

Did you end it with OW or did she?

 

This time? I did. But every moment of every day, I feel like I made a mistake. Day 8 of no contact (after contact when her mother went into the hospital and almost died)... So very hard.

 

But I have no one to blame but myself. For those who hate xMM, there are many reasons to do so. Otoh, some of us... Me at least... Hurt very much too. I don't want sympathy but better communication comes through understanding.

[LivingWaterPlease]

When I first met my xMM, I was told that he and his W never had sex, which I later found out to be untrue, they had a very regular sex life. I was very naive and trusting and had not yet discovered this forum.

 

One of the things he told me all the time during the four years we were together was that life with her was "barely tolerable" and he was not happy, but had no desire to change his situation. Being also his best friend, and wanting him to be happy, I counseled him to take them to see a counselor, that there were ways to fix it. He would reply, "I'm not interested." But he never explained to me why.

 

I once flat out asked him: If you're miserable, why don't you fix it or get out? He never replied and skirted around the issue. They had no kids, and he's been married once before (he filed for divorce) so I know he's capable.

 

Is the logical conclusion that he was lying to me? Or that it simply wasn't bad enough to do anything about?

 

I know it doesn't matter any more but there have been so many other posts here relating to that same subject, I'm just trying to understand the mind of a MM.

 

Crazy_Love, from what you've described I'll offer one possibility.

 

He's a negative personality who is unhappy with himself and realizes on some level that were he to divorce his wife and remarry, he'd still be unhappy.That in addition to the fact that, as you stated, he lies.

 

Since this is his second marriage and he left the first wife he may realize that the first wife wasn't the reason for his unhappiness when he found himself still unhappy with the second person. So, he's wisely unwilling to try it with a third person.

 

So, he may be a grumpy liar. Can you imagine living with someone like that? Some people are unhappy and restless with routine, need novelty to fuel their existence by keeping the serotonin flowing and find it in having an affair.

 

If he seemed happy when with you it's possible that feeding his addiction (new exciting relationship) is what kept his serotonin flowing and made life enjoyable for him therefore keeping him from seeming unhappy when in your presence.

 

Though I don't believe being a critical, negative personality is the reason behind all affairs, I do believe it's the reason behind many of them. I think unhappy people are looking for some way to get their serotonin flowing and may turn to addictions to accomplish this. Sex and/or romance can be the addiction of choice.

[bathtub-row]

When I overheard a conversation between xMM and a friend of his (they had no idea I could hear them), I was stunned to understand the depth of xMM's resolve to stay in his marriage. At that time, we had been broken up for about 3 yrs. What he said was that all he and his wife do is fight and that maybe he should just go live on a boat.

 

This was not a joking conversation. It was very serious and xMM was venting to his his friend. I think an incident occurred shortly before that to bring on that conversation.

 

From my perspective, it showed me just how little I meant to xMM, and I haven't been able to look at him in the same way since.

 

Getting inside their heads is a scary place. My recommendation would be to stay away from your ex and don't ever let yourself get sucked into a situation like that again. I know that I won't. That was enough pain for one lifetime.

[Ifalltopieces]

This time? I did. But every moment of every day, I feel like I made a mistake. Day 8 of no contact (after contact when her mother went into the hospital and almost died)... So very hard.

 

But I have no one to blame but myself. For those who hate xMM, there are many reasons to do so. Otoh, some of us... Me at least... Hurt very much too. I don't want sympathy but better communication comes through understanding.

 

Were you the kind of MM that future faked with your AP or did you tell her straight up that you weren't going to leave your marriage?

 

The part that gets me so mad is that I NEVER asked MM to leave his M. HE brought it up to me and mentioned it on his own free will. Now we sit here 2 years later. It's almost like he played a joke on me and it spun out of control. I would have more respect for him if he just laid it out and played it straight..but he just lies. He really thinks he is slick.

[jwi71]

Is the logical conclusion that he was lying to me?

 

Of course he was lying. You know this already.

 

Or that it simply wasn't bad enough to do anything about?

 

What makes you think it was/is bad? The already proven liar who has you to lose by being honest? Consider the source.

 

I'm just trying to understand the mind of a MM.

 

Impossible quest. And not because he is an MM but because its very hard to understand the mind of another. Every couple knows this - the "what in the h_ll was he/she thinking?" bit.

 

There may be deep seeded emotional and psychological scars driving him or maybe he is just another run-of-the-mill coward. Or maybe he just likes having sex with many different women. Is any one better or more valid than another? Does any one of those provide comfort? Ok, pick that one.

 

The "why" question is, to me, the number one anchor once an A - or any R really - ends and ties us to the past, retarding our ability to move forward.

 

Future in front, past behind - look forward in life else you might hit a tree.

[winterkeep]

Hi Crazylove I think the fact that you are even asking these questions tells you all you need to know..it really is that simple!

[Arieswoman]

LivingWaterPlease nails it here in this very astute post #8,

 

Crazy_Love, from what you've described I'll offer one possibility.

 

He's a negative personality who is unhappy with himself and realizes on some level that were he to divorce his wife and remarry, he'd still be unhappy.That in addition to the fact that, as you stated, he lies.

 

Since this is his second marriage and he left the first wife he may realize that the first wife wasn't the reason for his unhappiness when he found himself still unhappy with the second person. So, he's wisely unwilling to try it with a third person.

 

So, he may be a grumpy liar. Can you imagine living with someone like that? Some people are unhappy and restless with routine, need novelty to fuel their existence by keeping the serotonin flowing and find it in having an affair.

 

If he seemed happy when with you it's possible that feeding his addiction (new exciting relationship) is what kept his serotonin flowing and made life enjoyable for him therefore keeping him from seeming unhappy when in your presence.

 

Though I don't believe being a critical, negative personality is the reason behind all affairs, I do believe it's the reason behind many of them. I think unhappy people are looking for some way to get their serotonin flowing and may turn to addictions to accomplish this. Sex and/or romance can be the addiction of choice.

 

^^^^

 

This was my cheating exH to a T. He was the sort of person who would never be happy with anybody or any situation because he didn't love himself.

These sort of people are chasing something that doesn't exist. When the affair turns into marriage they often find it's a case of "same book different cover".

ExH ended up with AP and now she posts on FB about how he moans "about anything and everything" and how hard she has to work.

[minimariah]

LS is a tough place to get an answer like that. On the one hand, you have xMM like me that often post justify behavior. On the other hand, you have xAPs that have been hurt and are recovering and so see the worst in xMM.

 

i think you should post more, because i think MM's insight is needed. i noticed that the MMs are the rarest one to post, when WS post... it's usually the ladies.

 

so i'm encouraging you to share your story and feelings and what you're going through if you can and want - i really think it would be super helpful for many.

[jaskiegs]

Were you the kind of MM that future faked with your AP or did you tell her straight up that you weren't going to leave your marriage?

 

The part that gets me so mad is that I NEVER asked MM to leave his M. HE brought it up to me and mentioned it on his own free will. Now we sit here 2 years later. It's almost like he played a joke on me and it spun out of control. I would have more respect for him if he just laid it out and played it straight..but he just lies. He really thinks he is slick.

 

I am sure that is very painful and something that can be excruciating when you look back on it. I am sorry. As for me, we talked about a future, yes. I don't consider them lies... I'm not going to call them unfulfilled dreams because that is too close to lying, but I truly did (do, unfortunately) want to marry her and be a public couple. I even wanted (want) a child with her because I believe she'd be a good mother.

 

But in retrospect, I wish we hadn't talked about that. APs get so much out of order. I suppose it's the nature of the beast.

 

BTW, I'm not speaking for all or even most MM. I am sure there are a lot of lying jerk that are just looking to get laid, maybe most. And, since I lied to many people and didn't fulfill my promises, I guess I'm a lying jerk too, so I suppose there's not much difference anyway.

[Got it]

Like the above poster has said, MMs are a wide swath of humans so the "whys" are going to vary. I think there is a misconception that these men are a full subset of humans with all evil intent. This is not true and there is a wide spectrum of reasoning.

 

Only you, the OP, has the actual facts in your situation, to best determine why he would do what he did and his reasoning for it. We can only speculate based on our personal experiences and assumptions. But that doesn't make it any closer to the truth.

 

What do you think? Why do you think he said what he said?

 

In regards to future faking, sometimes it is said with the most earnest intentions but doesn't come to fruition when things hit the fan. Doesn't mean they were lies when spoken, but just not something that could have been promised.

 

It doesn't change the end result, doesn't minimize the pain, but doesn't always mean the person was purposely deceiving for the joy of causing pain. Sometimes they are just weak and saying what they would love to have happen but doesn't mean they could actually make it happen.

[cocorico]

Like the above poster has said, MMs are a wide swath of humans so the "whys" are going to vary. I think there is a misconception that these men are a full subset of humans with all evil intent. This is not true and there is a wide spectrum of reasoning.

 

Only you, the OP, has the actual facts in your situation, to best determine why he would do what he did and his reasoning for it. We can only speculate based on our personal experiences and assumptions. But that doesn't make it any closer to the truth.

 

What do you think? Why do you think he said what he said?

 

In regards to future faking, sometimes it is said with the most earnest intentions but doesn't come to fruition when things hit the fan. Doesn't mean they were lies when spoken, but just not something that could have been promised.

 

It doesn't change the end result, doesn't minimize the pain, but doesn't always mean the person was purposely deceiving for the joy of causing pain. Sometimes they are just weak and saying what they would love to have happen but doesn't mean they could actually make it happen.

 

This.

 

OP, would it help you more to "know" it was all lies, and he's an evil cad who deserves your scorn, so that you can feel angry at him and move on?

 

Or would it be more helpful to you or "know" that he meant every word he uttered to you, that he loved you more than life itself, but circumstances just made it impossible for you to be together?

 

Since you can't know conclusively - even if he answered all your questions, you'd still have more - I think you need to choose which ever explanation most helps you, and use that to help you to move on.

[thecharade]

I have a friend who cheats. They have mostly been one night things, but there was also a LTA. It ended because they were semi-caught, and that scared them both. He has recently gotten into an EA with someone, but she does not feel the same about him, keeps it on an honest level. (Everyone can see that HE has feelings for her.)

 

He does not openly admit or discuss these truths with me, but occasionally he does not deny and let's me lecture him. I worry about his wife and kids, but I do not know her personally at all and she would not believe me, so I am staying out of it. Except that I do press my friend to change. (He was my friend prior to marriage and cheated on all of his girlfriends.)

 

So, why?

What is he thinking?

 

He wants to be married, loves his kids, enjoys his wife, relishes his life. But he will lie to women about his life because he just wants more. I have heard him tell people how unhappy he is, and then he will tell me that he IS happy. There are people, both men and women, that have no trouble telling people very different things and believing whatever comes out of their mouth. Your MM is lying to you--period. He just is. If he was very unhappy in his life, he would divorce his wife. He likes cheating. He wants it this way. There are many people out there that simply want the stability of married life + the excitement of dating. My friend is a perfect example.

 

Please stay away from your MM. He is damaged goods, clearly broken. Yuck. You deserve better--everyone does.

[Goodbye]

I am sure that is very painful and something that can be excruciating when you look back on it. I am sorry. As for me, we talked about a future, yes. I don't consider them lies... I'm not going to call them unfulfilled dreams because that is too close to lying, but I truly did (do, unfortunately) want to marry her and be a public couple. I even wanted (want) a child with her because I believe she'd be a good mother.

 

But in retrospect, I wish we hadn't talked about that. APs get so much out of order. I suppose it's the nature of the beast.

 

BTW, I'm not speaking for all or even most MM. I am sure there are a lot of lying jerk that are just looking to get laid, maybe most. And, since I lied to many people and didn't fulfill my promises, I guess I'm a lying jerk too, so I suppose there's not much difference anyway.

 

 

It sounds like you genuinely loved/love OW...to the point of wanting marriage and kids? How is it that your wife didn't sense you pulling away? How did you manage to keep your wife in the dark? How do you rationalize not telling her is for her benefit? Do you still debate leaving for the OW even though you are in NC? I don't mean to fire so many questions, but as others have pointed out, MM posting here are a rare breed and yet we (fOW's) have so many unanswered questions; which you probably cannot answer as each situation is unique, but at least you could provide some insights. Thanks in advance.

[Crazy_Love]

Thank you all for your thoughts, they have been helpful.

 

I think the answer is that he loved me. I know he did because you don't spend eight hours a day every day voluntarily, for four years if you don't love someone. But, as someone wisely said, he was a negative, unhappy person. I could see it when we were not together. I also believe that he was exaggerating about the state of his M to keep me around but that he was not unhappy enough and too comfortable to leave her. She made a lot of money and they lived a certain lifestyle and well, I could not offer that to him.

 

The important thing you all helped me realize is it was his deficiencies, not mine, and I feel able to move forward knowing that no matter what I did, I could not have ended up with him. So thank you for that.

[Goodbye]

I am sure that is very painful and something that can be excruciating when you look back on it. I am sorry. As for me, we talked about a future, yes. I don't consider them lies... I'm not going to call them unfulfilled dreams because that is too close to lying, but I truly did (do, unfortunately) want to marry her and be a public couple. I even wanted (want) a child with her because I believe she'd be a good mother.

 

But in retrospect, I wish we hadn't talked about that. APs get so much out of order. I suppose it's the nature of the beast.

 

BTW, I'm not speaking for all or even most MM. I am sure there are a lot of lying jerk that are just looking to get laid, maybe most. And, since I lied to many people and didn't fulfill my promises, I guess I'm a lying jerk too, so I suppose there's not much difference anyway.

 

So how is it that you are able to have sex with your wife? Your unknowing wife? All the while "still wanting to marry OW/have child with OW." Do you not see how you appear to have no conscience whatsoever? I swear there is almost a sociopathic nature that allows someone to be a "good enough" cheater to get away with it.

[jaskiegs]

It sounds like you genuinely loved/love OW...to the point of wanting marriage and kids?

 

I did, do, or at least as much as I know what that means. Kids a little bit less so but knew it was extremely important to her and therefore important to me.

 

How is it that your wife didn't sense you pulling away? How did you manage to keep your wife in the dark?

 

We didn't have sex for months at a time before I met my OW. After the A started, we simply didn't have sex (it was a long A). I refused to sleep with two women and, TBH, it was two years before my wife even asked about it. In other words, we had already pulled apart long before the A started, even as an EA. As for as keeping her in the dark, I really don't know. Yes, lots of lies, but we just lived separate lives. Didn't sleep in the same bed for nearly a decade (still don't). I think part of me was frustrated that she didn't find out.

 

How do you rationalize not telling her is for her benefit?

 

Can someone explain to me why this would be useful? If I were ending the marriage, such as it is, then maybe. But even then, how is informing someone of your betrayal anything other than being vindictive or looking to get rid of your own guilt?

 

Do you still debate leaving for the OW even though you are in NC?

 

Every. Single. Day. Many many times a day. This NC is the hardest thing I've ever done. Every night I think about her as I fall asleep. Every morning, the pain returns before I am fully awake. It's getting better but it sucks.

 

I don't mean to fire so many questions, but as others have pointed out, MM posting here are a rare breed and yet we (fOW's) have so many unanswered questions; which you probably cannot answer as each situation is unique, but at least you could provide some insights. Thanks in advance.

 

I don't mind. I am not looking for sympathy or looking to educate anyone. Just trying to finally be honest with myself.

[jaskiegs]

So how is it that you are able to have sex with your wife? Your unknowing wife? All the while "still wanting to marry OW/have child with OW." Do you not see how you appear to have no conscience whatsoever? I swear there is almost a sociopathic nature that allows someone to be a "good enough" cheater to get away with it.

 

I haven't had sex with her. But, yes, I plan to. I plan to make a go of the relationship. And, yes, I do still want to marry her. Maybe that is sociopathic. All I know is that I feel that way...But there is nothing about your comment that is wrong. But I will say that I am not happy that I "got away with it." It doesn't feel like I did. Yeah, I got to have sex out of my marriage but I've destroyed the one life I have to live. I may have destroyed others as well. If I had it to do all over again, I would do things differently. There is decidedly nothing good about it.

 

And yet...and yet...yes, I love my AP. I love her very much. I am sorry if that sounds like a psycho.

[minimariah]

I did, do, or at least as much as I know what that means. Kids a little bit less so but knew it was extremely important to her and therefore important to me...

 

may i ask - what is stopping you from leaving?

 

if i understood... your marriage was dead & sexless before you even met the other woman? so... let's remove the other woman. focus on your marriage - what is keeping you in the marriage that's... well, bad?

 

is it for the children? because you want to be there for them full time?

 

you asked about why would disclosing the affair be useful - well... it's useful when you want to work on the marriage. and when you want to be honest, when you want to give that other person a chance to make an informed decision - in your situation though... i don't think it would really change anything, am i right? not really sure your wife would just pick up her things and divorced you in a heartbeat... basically, if you want to build a really and truly authentic relationship - you need to let it all out.

 

unfortunately, sweetheart... i think it's a little too late for your marriage.

 

do you have any close friend or a counselor you can talk to and confide in while in pain over NC?

[Doublegold]

You have been open to the members of this forum. Thank you for that. It appears you are still finding your way, and I wish you well along the journey ahead. Good luck to you.

 

“That was one of the saddest things about people--their most important thoughts and feelings often went unspoken and barely understood.”

― Alexandra Adornetto, Halo