Has anyone had a D-Day that wasn't actually?

[NewLeaf512]

Why would one expect a betrayed spouse to give any merit to an affair and ending it respectfully when the ap gave none to their marriage? Didn't the ap watch a ws throw their spouse and marriage under the bus for an affair? Why didn't the ap think they were just waiting for their turn for the same treatment?

 

 

 

It's not about expectations/ owing/ obligation etc.

 

 

It is about hoping that people behave like human beings towards each other , particularly AFTER Dday which is what is being talked out here, because AFTER Dday someone takes accountability for his/her actions. If your ARE truly remorseful, then you stop being a prick to all involved

[NewLeaf512]

This doesn't matter. Some WS's value the M and everything it represents more than either woman/man.

 

So when you have a WS who wants to stay married at all costs, why would they ever say that they were/are in love with the AP? They wouldn't. That's like telling your boss that you hate your job.

 

 

 

Hi popsicle, I didn't say WS admitted it. BS somehow found out (I also think there may be some WS who would be foolish enough to say it)

 

 

Why would anyone want to stay married to someone they didn't love? That idea doesn't make sense to me (yes I was married once)

[NewLeaf512]

New Leaf, you asked: I'd like to understand from the BS in the group.. If you were trying to reconcile with your WS but knew they really loved their AP would you want them?

 

When H told me about the A I asked him what he wanted to do, if he loved OW and said that if he did, then I would help to untangle our very long marriage and relationship and we would divorce. I loved him with all that I had, but I couldn't and wouldn't be with him, not for a heartbeat if his head and heart were elsewhere. He didn't want us to split and without going too deeply into it, he was a very broken man.

 

It was I who suggested speaking with OW to give closure, it was he who refused. We actually had arguments about his disregard for her feelings, not all BS's are demons or monsters, we also aren't stupid and most place the blame on the shoulders of their WS's. It might take the dust to settle, but when it does most of us don't enable the WS to minimise their role in the affair. When OW called and called our home and H was away working, it was me who gave her comfort and support, simply as a human being to another who was lost and hurt.

 

My H said it meant nothing and that both angered and hurt me, I would rather an A based on love than nothing, to chance losing me and he for nothing was insulting and far more disrespectful than for love. But it was what it was and once I understood the reasoning behind the A (long, long story) I understood that he meant what he said, but I believe that he had feelings for her, not love else we wouldn't be together 7 and a half years later, but feelings all the same. He denies this, and believe me I all but begged (strong word, too strong I never, ever could beg anyone) him to admit he cared, that it would have helped, but he says he will not lie about it. I know about the infinite details of the A, largely by OW and the man she knew and accepted his crappy behaviour from was nothing like the man I know.

 

I think everyone deserves truth, informed choice enables us all to make decisions, that includes the BS,OW or AP, truth can help a person move on. see what is missing? the WS, they are probably the only one's in the A who truly know what's what. The rest of us second guess, imagine and fight like cats in a sack.

 

 

This is highly generous and evolved thinking. You are a compassionate person.

 

 

My opposing question is thus: the man you love resembles nothing of WS and his treatment od AP. how do you know that other "man" is in there somewhere? Thanks for your considered response

[purplesorrow]

It's not about expectations/ owing/ obligation etc.

 

 

It is about hoping that people behave like human beings towards each other , particularly AFTER Dday which is what is being talked out here, because AFTER Dday someone takes accountability for his/her actions. If your ARE truly remorseful, then you stop being a prick to all involved

 

As a betrayed spouse, I hoped for this before a dday, as in my h not cheating and an ap not being with my h. We all hope for the same, just a different times I guess.

[ladydesigner]

It's not about expectations/ owing/ obligation etc.

 

 

It is about hoping that people behave like human beings towards each other , particularly AFTER Dday which is what is being talked out here, because AFTER Dday someone takes accountability for his/her actions. If your ARE truly remorseful, then you stop being a prick to all involved

 

I think this goes for everyone involved in the triangle. My situation became messy after my WH and MOW were trying to cover up their A after I found out. Then when I found evidence I was laughed at, mocked, demeaned and even more by the MOW and my WH albeit passive aggressively. From that point on I gave her no respect, my WH either. Still to this day I have no respect for either of them.

[NewLeaf512]

As a betrayed spouse, I hoped for this before a dday, as in my h not cheating and an ap not being with my h. We all hope for the same, just a different times I guess.

 

Purple I'm not minimising your pain or try to subject you to marginalisation. Of course I for myself would have hoped I could have been a better person before I hurt anyone. What the topic of the thread is about having a dday that perhaps wasn't real, an the OP being in pain without any closure, it seemed that WS had decided to recommit to his BW and try to get forgiveness and behave in an honourable way. We are all people who make mistakes and what I was trying to point out that as WS was acting respectability towards his BW finally, perhaps he could have honoured OP by at least sending a short email or even text to tie things off.

 

Just my opinion

[NewLeaf512]

I think this goes for everyone involved in the triangle. My situation became messy after my WH and MOW were trying to cover up their A after I found out. Then when I found evidence I was laughed at, mocked, demeaned and even more by the MOW and my WH albeit passive aggressively. From that point on I gave her no respect, my WH either. Still to this day I have no respect for either of them.

 

I'm so very sorry that happened to you. It's no wonder why you feel the way you do.

[ladydesigner]

I'm so very sorry that happened to you. It's no wonder why you feel the way you do.

 

Thank you It's been rough. I also realized that my WH probably told her things as well that added fuel to the fire. Most likely she really thought I was an abuser and mistreated my WH, but it was so far from the truth. I can only blame the MOW so much as she was fed a bunch of lies too.

 

 

Our M was not perfect and we were struggling a bit. All I wanted was to know what my WH wanted. I did not want to fight for him after I found out that they were truly in love and having a relationship. It is so weird he always fought to keep me and the M, but yet carried on the A. I've never understood that part. I mean I get that he needed his ego boosted, but so did I

[NewLeaf512]

Thank you It's been rough. I also realized that my WH probably told her things as well that added fuel to the fire. Most likely she really thought I was an abuser and mistreated my WH, but it was so far from the truth. I can only blame the MOW so much as she was fed a bunch of lies too.

 

 

Our M was not perfect and we were struggling a bit. All I wanted was to know what my WH wanted. I did not want to fight for him after I found out that they were truly in love and having a relationship. It is so weird he always fought to keep me and the M, but yet carried on the A. I've never understood that part. I mean I get that he needed his ego boosted, but so did I

 

I'm making the assumption from your post that you are no longer with WS... If that is true you will find someone who thinks you are amazing right down to your big toe. Hugs

[seren]

Hi Newleaf, to answer your question, of course the man who acted that way, during that time is still in there, it is just that we have been together for almost 30 years now and during that long time I never saw that side of him, TBH had I had 'that' man, it wouldn't have been 30 years. 'That' man is not the man I know, love and respect. When H had the affair a lot of 'stuff' was happening, long story, but to explain in a few words, there was Iraq, there was Combat Stress off the scale, there was me ill with cancer and there was loss and self loathing (him) and a total jumble of circumstances that happened at that time that will never happen again. Please don't interpret this as making excuses for him, but more reasons that meant the man I knew, know and love was a very broken thing.

 

I also know that conflict avoidance, so often spoken about, is in his DNA as dragon fighting is to mine. So, when it all came tumbling out of him, I tried to make sense of it all as it made no sense at all. I knew while it was ongoing that something was not right, and, as many of us BS do, asked time and time again if there were someone else and told no. I loved him, I love him, all I want and wanted for him was a happy life, if that were with another then believe me, I would have wanted him to have that and told him so. I would not want to be with someone whose head and heart were with someone else. Which is why on D Day I gave him options and understood that life is simply not all black and white, even though I am a very black and white thinker.

 

While I don't think and I hope it will never happen again, yes I was one of the, it will never happen to us people, I now am not so naive, which is sad and hurts my H as he says he has changed my view of the world and, more importantly, he feels he has lost my respect. Not so, stuff happens and all the thinking, writing and theorising cannot change it, what can change is how I, we deal with it and deal with the fallout. I would have understood better an A based upon love, I probably would have healed far quicker, but it wasn't and in typical conflict avoidance behaviour, he chose not to give closure, in his mind that was then, that was 'that' person and once it was out there, he could move along. Harsh, cold, yes, but truth.

 

I think there are moments in time that see us act in ways that we might never do again, there are circumstances that create those times, like acts in a play, that OW got hurt meant more to me than him. I got and get no satisfaction from this, it isn't in my nature, I hate the A with all that I have, but my logic says that if I can still reconcile and love my H, then I cannot hate the OW for doing the same thing with no commitment to me. All marriages are as different as all A's. I simply do not understand why someone who loves another wouldn't just leave a marriage and be with those they want to be with. For me, I don't knowingly share the person I love. What mine knows, is that if it happened again there are no second chances. I just hate that people get hurt believing in the promises of another. I wish everyone peace of mind, tis just one life after all.

[movingon123]

Hi Newleaf, to answer your question, of course the man who acted that way, during that time is still in there, it is just that we have been together for almost 30 years now and during that long time I never saw that side of him, TBH had I had 'that' man, it wouldn't have been 30 years. 'That' man is not the man I know, love and respect. When H had the affair a lot of 'stuff' was happening, long story, but to explain in a few words, there was Iraq, there was Combat Stress off the scale, there was me ill with cancer and there was loss and self loathing (him) and a total jumble of circumstances that happened at that time that will never happen again. Please don't interpret this as making excuses for him, but more reasons that meant the man I knew, know and love was a very broken thing.

 

I also know that conflict avoidance, so often spoken about, is in his DNA as dragon fighting is to mine. So, when it all came tumbling out of him, I tried to make sense of it all as it made no sense at all. I knew while it was ongoing that something was not right, and, as many of us BS do, asked time and time again if there were someone else and told no. I loved him, I love him, all I want and wanted for him was a happy life, if that were with another then believe me, I would have wanted him to have that and told him so. I would not want to be with someone whose head and heart were with someone else. Which is why on D Day I gave him options and understood that life is simply not all black and white, even though I am a very black and white thinker.

 

While I don't think and I hope it will never happen again, yes I was one of the, it will never happen to us people, I now am not so naive, which is sad and hurts my H as he says he has changed my view of the world and, more importantly, he feels he has lost my respect. Not so, stuff happens and all the thinking, writing and theorising cannot change it, what can change is how I, we deal with it and deal with the fallout. I would have understood better an A based upon love, I probably would have healed far quicker, but it wasn't and in typical conflict avoidance behaviour, he chose not to give closure, in his mind that was then, that was 'that' person and once it was out there, he could move along. Harsh, cold, yes, but truth.

 

I think there are moments in time that see us act in ways that we might never do again, there are circumstances that create those times, like acts in a play, that OW got hurt meant more to me than him. I got and get no satisfaction from this, it isn't in my nature, I hate the A with all that I have, but my logic says that if I can still reconcile and love my H, then I cannot hate the OW for doing the same thing with no commitment to me. All marriages are as different as all A's. I simply do not understand why someone who loves another wouldn't just leave a marriage and be with those they want to be with. For me, I don't knowingly share the person I love. What mine knows, is that if it happened again there are no second chances. I just hate that people get hurt believing in the promises of another. I wish everyone peace of mind, tis just one life after all.

It is really interesting reading your experience and I appreciate you sharing. I'm sorry it happened to you but I'm glad that it sounds like you have a very strong m now.

 

I wonder if conflict avoidance is what made my ex-mm act so coldly toward me. If so it is very sad to think he has just forgotten about me and thinks, like you said, "that was then". He himself said at times that he was a conflict avoider, as is his w, and that is why they wouldn't discuss their marriage issues. That's what he told me anyway. In my case, although I really don't know of course, what I believe from what I was able to piece together over about 18 months was that his wife didn't have many feelings left for him (they have been married a long time). If anything he had a bit more for her although he never admitted that to me but it was a hunch. I think he had some for me, but as I have reflected over the last month since d-day it is gut-wrenching to realize that I don't think he had a lot for me either. I had them for him, though.

 

New Leaf, thank you for making the point that this post was about acting humanely toward another human being you had a strong relationship with for some time. It is absolutely shocking to be treated like a hot potato and just dropped without barely a backward glance. As you said, we aren't murderers and he was in this as much as I was. "Oh, you wanted me to say something to you? Oh, yeah, sorry, and yeah, I regret that I let it go beyond friendship. Because really, you meant nothing to me, and those I love you's really meant I loved the great sex."

 

Lesson learned? I can't trust what a man says to me, no matter his marital status. I will never get involved with a mm again, but my trust has been completely blown in all men. Yes, what I was doing was wrong, what mm was doing was wrong, but he just made it even more wrong by not ending it well. Once he decided to attempt to rectify the situation with his w, that doesn't mean throwing me under the bus. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn't have said some kind words about what I meant to him during a private last phone call before we were to never speak again. To do otherwise and act so coldly is just plain cruel, as well as makes it clear what I meant to him despite what he had said and how he acted prior to d-day. I just don't get it. And maybe conflict avoidance explains it. He just took a sad situation and made it even sadder, however.

[gettingstronger]

It is really interesting reading your experience and I appreciate you sharing. I'm sorry it happened to you but I'm glad that it sounds like you have a very strong m now.

 

I wonder if conflict avoidance is what made my ex-mm act so coldly toward me. If so it is very sad to think he has just forgotten about me and thinks, like you said, "that was then". He himself said at times that he was a conflict avoider, as is his w, and that is why they wouldn't discuss their marriage issues. That's what he told me anyway. In my case, although I really don't know of course, what I believe from what I was able to piece together over about 18 months was that his wife didn't have many feelings left for him (they have been married a long time). If anything he had a bit more for her although he never admitted that to me but it was a hunch. I think he had some for me, but as I have reflected over the last month since d-day it is gut-wrenching to realize that I don't think he had a lot for me either. I had them for him, though.

 

New Leaf, thank you for making the point that this post was about acting humanely toward another human being you had a strong relationship with for some time. It is absolutely shocking to be treated like a hot potato and just dropped without barely a backward glance. As you said, we aren't murderers and he was in this as much as I was. "Oh, you wanted me to say something to you? Oh, yeah, sorry, and yeah, I regret that I let it go beyond friendship. Because really, you meant nothing to me, and those I love you's really meant I loved the great sex."

 

Lesson learned? I can't trust what a man says to me, no matter his marital status. I will never get involved with a mm again, but my trust has been completely blown in all men. Yes, what I was doing was wrong, what mm was doing was wrong, but he just made it even more wrong by not ending it well. Once he decided to attempt to rectify the situation with his w, that doesn't mean throwing me under the bus. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn't have said some kind words about what I meant to him during a private last phone call before we were to never speak again. To do otherwise and act so coldly is just plain cruel, as well as makes it clear what I meant to him despite what he had said and how he acted prior to d-day. I just don't get it. And maybe conflict avoidance explains it. He just took a sad situation and made it even sadder, however.

 

Not sure if this is helpful or hurtful, I mean it to be helpful. During my one attempt to get our ow to stop intruding I talked with her. She was freaking out that my husband hated her. I tried to explain he hates who he was at the time, what he had done and in his mind, right then, he could not separate the person from the situation. Of course, our story is extreme as she continues to intrude so yes, 2.5 years later he does hate her BUT I wonder if she didn't get so hurtful towards us that if by now he wouldn't see things differently.

[Popsicle]

Why would anyone want to stay married to someone they didn't love?

 

People do it everyday. And they are some of the longest lasting marriages too.

[velvette]

I believe most AP including my own ExMM never really loved me in spite of what he said.

 

I'd like to understand from the BS in the group.. If you were trying to reconcile with your WS but knew they really loved their AP would you want them?

 

For me real love is about respect, and just like I wouldn't touch ExMM now with a barge pole, I find it hard to imagine a BW or BH wanting a WS who was in love with someone else. They deserve more than a body about the house.

 

Likewise if you are a WS and not in love with your BS you should not fake it and give them an inauthentic life. They should have someone who unconditionally loves them, and so should WS.

 

The key to moving past the A is complete transparency and reality. If WS loves BS they should be doing everything always to win back the trust and love.

 

If WS really doesn't love BS cut them loose and give them a shot at happiness.

 

I wouldn't stay with someone if they told me or I thought they were in love with another woman.

 

 

In my case, I had access to texts/emails between my H and the OW and it was pretty clear to me that he wasn't in love with OW. Not to say he didn't have an attachment or like her.

 

 

I think what a lot of OW forget or misunderstand is that most BS had their own passionate love with their H when they started, so they know how their H acts when he is in love.

 

 

What I saw with his correspondence with OW was more a half assed effort to keep her in line/on the hook/believing what she wanted to believe. For whatever reason, she fell for that. And that was only the primary OW; he had others going too.

 

 

I think the bottom line for OW is that closure comes from within. If someone is acting like they love you, but not doing anything to live that love out loud with you, then its a safe assumption that whatever they feel for you, they don't want to/cant love you the way you want to be loved. So, really what difference does it make how they feel. The result is the same.

[gettingstronger]

People do it everyday. And they are some of the longest lasting marriages too.

 

 

 

I think they just define love differently. I know my aunt and uncle appeared not to be in love by my eye but when he died she grieved like I've never seen. I knew then their love just looked different to outsiders but to them, it was love.

[NewLeaf512]

Hi Newleaf, to answer your question, of course the man who acted that way, during that time is still in there, it is just that we have been together for almost 30 years now and during that long time I never saw that side of him, TBH had I had 'that' man, it wouldn't have been 30 years. 'That' man is not the man I know, love and respect. When H had the affair a lot of 'stuff' was happening, long story, but to explain in a few words, there was Iraq, there was Combat Stress off the scale, there was me ill with cancer and there was loss and self loathing (him) and a total jumble of circumstances that happened at that time that will never happen again. Please don't interpret this as making excuses for him, but more reasons that meant the man I knew, know and love was a very broken thing.

 

 

 

I think there are moments in time that see us act in ways that we might never do again, there are circumstances that create those times, like acts in a play, that OW got hurt meant more to me than him. I got and get no satisfaction from this, it isn't in my nature, I hate the A with all that I have, but my logic says that if I can still reconcile and love my H, then I cannot hate the OW for doing the same thing with no commitment to me. All marriages are as different as all A's. I simply do not understand why someone who loves another wouldn't just leave a marriage and be with those they want to be with. For me, I don't knowingly share the person I love. What mine knows, is that if it happened again there are no second chances. I just hate that people get hurt believing in the promises of another. I wish everyone peace of mind, tis just one life after all.

 

 

Thanks for your insightful follow-up. I too suffer terribly from PTSD even though the cause was years ago. Popping balloons, glass smashing, and more. I cant go near a balloon.

 

 

You are a wise and strong lady. Thank you for the gift of your post.

[NewLeaf512]

I wouldn't stay with someone if they told me or I thought they were in love with another woman.

 

 

In my case, I had access to texts/emails between my H and the OW and it was pretty clear to me that he wasn't in love with OW. Not to say he didn't have an attachment or like her.

 

 

I think what a lot of OW forget or misunderstand is that most BS had their own passionate love with their H when they started, so they know how their H acts when he is in love.

 

 

What I saw with his correspondence with OW was more a half assed effort to keep her in line/on the hook/believing what she wanted to believe. For whatever reason, she fell for that. And that was only the primary OW; he had others going too.

 

 

I think the bottom line for OW is that closure comes from within. If someone is acting like they love you, but not doing anything to live that love out loud with you, then its a safe assumption that whatever they feel for you, they don't want to/cant love you the way you want to be loved. So, really what difference does it make how they feel. The result is the same.

 

 

I velvette I think you raise a good point, that WS had deep and passionate love for BS at one time too.

 

 

 

 

Also your closing stanza also seems right on...

 

 

Did I read rightly that your WH had multiple OW? I think I night get past 1, but what were your coping strategies for dealing with multiple OW? Did they all have DDays or DDays that weren't actually like OP presented?

 

 

Thanks

[Popsicle]

Hi popsicle, I didn't say WS admitted it. BS somehow found out (I also think there may be some WS who would be foolish enough to say it)

 

BS's don't find out and it helps when WS deny it.

[NewLeaf512]

BS's don't find out and it helps when WS deny it.

 

 

Popsicle, I also wanted to address the above so thanks for it. As to the OP, if BS never finds our and WS dose not to deny it, really there is no impetus for change?

[Popsicle]

Popsicle, I also wanted to address the above so thanks for it. As to the OP, if BS never finds our and WS dose not to deny it, really there is no impetus for change?

 

Honestly,change is hard whether they know or not. Married couples in general don't like change. And once a BS or WS realizes that their spouse isn't going to leave (despite whatever they say), then there is really no reason to change.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Popsicle

[Lois_Griffin]

BUT he never confessed. He denied, denied, denied, and swore to do anything to make her trust him again.

LOL. Don't they all?

 

It's very possible he's using that as an excuse to end things because maybe the thrill has worn off for him or he no longer feels the risk is worth the reward.

 

I think pretty much everything they do is geared to serve themselves.

[NewLeaf512]

Honestly,change is hard whether they know or not. Married couples in general don't like change. And once a BS or WS realizes that their spouse isn't going to leave (despite whatever they say), then there is really no reason to change.

 

 

I am really feeling this today about the anti Dday. There are several dynamics to this uneventful dissolving. From reading here on LS it seems it is mostly MM who can just end it without a backwards glance leaving AP having their suspended reality disappear in an instant leaving them baffled and desperate for closure. In the event BW never knew, her life continues on uninterrupted, and most MM carryon with an "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind" moment, quite simply like deleting a document off the computer's desktop. 1 click and it's gone.

 

 

For those who can carry on in a marriage because it's easy, or conversely too hard to get out of, but in each cases Loveless is a thing I cant contemplate. For me, I think that makes marriage an endurance test and an act of survival. It doesn't appeal to me to get to a martial finish line of 50 or 60 years when most of the journey to get to the finish line was lonely, empty, and sometimes with shards of glass sticking in my feet accompanied by a person I didn't love or trust.

 

 

Humans, The most complex of beings!