Waiting game

[Sub]

Angelique, is it possible he keeps the R going with you strictly because of your kids?

[AngeliqueC]

No; he genuinely loves me too!! And he tolerates my mum....(trust me, she's a difficult one). I do think that a large part of why we have done so well as a couple is due to the kids - he wanted very much to be a father, and has been, in my sons' words, their "real dad".

 

He and I are both very family focused - with limitations. I'm an only child without much extended family living, he has a brother who distanced himself from the family due to his alcoholism for several decades. His mum died long before we met; his dad, just a couple of years after we transitioned from friends to lovers. My father passed in 06; MM was a pallbearer at his funeral. The grandone we have is quite a bundle of energy and excitement for us - so, yes, the whole family thing plays into our relationship, but it's in addition to our personal lives, not in lieu of having an intimate relationship.

[AngeliqueC]

Update - he's requested time from the end of Sept until end of November. Not sure when they have to respond by; my guess is by the end of this month.

 

He's cosigned for the kids apartment; they are expecting a move in date just after Labor Day. Both son and DIL are enrolled in classes and have good job leads.

 

I had my usual outing with Mum today - as always, she was not happy about much of anything. She made a HUGE scene at the restaurant where we lunched - not out of the ordinary for her; very embarassing for me. Plus, my jaw is still aching from having a cavity filled yesterday...

 

I'd go onto bed, but I'm waiting (yet again!) for a couple of calls - mm and older son, who is graduating with his BS this weekend - he's supposed to give me info on how to stream the ceremonies online.

[Lois_Griffin]

And all this time a married man was playing 'daddy' to your kids, did they know he was married and lying and sneaking around behind his wife's back for 20 years? Or did you just tell them he was your long time friend?

 

I honestly can't even imagine bringing that type of deceitful activity around my son when he was growing up. There's no way he would have been able to respect me if I had. I simply can't wrap my brain around that.

 

And here he is co-signing for an apartment for some kid his wife doesn't even KNOW but would be on the hook for legally if your son didn't pay his rent. Gosh, how kind of him to put her ass on the line like that. You see him as this selfless, kind, giving man but the truth is, he has no damned RIGHT to be visiting this type of financial liability on his wife's shoulders.

 

Lastly, I don't understand why in the hell this coward waited until his wife was well into her senior stage of life before running off on her. Had he been a REAL man 20 years ago and divorced her instead of cheating, she might have had a better chance to find a decent man who wasn't just hanging around until it suited him to leave. His cowardice and complete selfishness at protecting his OWN damned interests above everyone else's is a real testament to his lack of character.

 

As SassyGirl stated earlier in this thread, he sounds lovely.

[Sub]

I was going to ask that as well: how do your kids feel about his situation? I'm assuming they know he's married.

[OldRover]

And all this time a married man was playing 'daddy' to your kids, did they know he was married and lying and sneaking around behind his wife's back for 20 years? Or did you just tell them he was your long time friend?

 

I honestly can't even imagine bringing that type of deceitful activity around my son when he was growing up. There's no way he would have been able to respect me if I had. I simply can't wrap my brain around that.

 

And here he is co-signing for an apartment for some kid his wife doesn't even KNOW but would be on the hook for legally if your son didn't pay his rent. Gosh, how kind of him to put her ass on the line like that. You see him as this selfless, kind, giving man but the truth is, he has no damned RIGHT to be visiting this type of financial liability on his wife's shoulders.

 

Lastly, I don't understand why in the hell this coward waited until his wife was well into her senior stage of life before running off on her. Had he been a REAL man 20 years ago and divorced her instead of cheating, she might have had a better chance to find a decent man who wasn't just hanging around until it suited him to leave. His cowardice and complete selfishness at protecting his OWN damned interests above everyone else's is a real testament to his lack of character.

 

As SassyGirl stated earlier in this thread, he sounds lovely.

 

I don't think you know her MM very well. His relationship with his wife sounds pretty distant with nothing in common. She's probably aware of most everything and just doesn't care. Who knows why he stays married.

 

And his financial arrangements are his choice, not his wifes and most state laws don't obligate the spouse for their husbands financial commitments.

 

It's sure a "different" kind of relationship, but seems to be working for the OP.... she's made her choices and is living with it.

[AngeliqueC]

Actually, their finances have always been separate. In fact, the fellow who married them threatened to not to perform the ceremony because they had been adamant about having separate bank accounts. Her credit is under her name; his under his. I think there is one joint credit card account and of course, the mortgage is joint. But cars and anything else are separate.

[Ms. Faust]

Actually, their finances have always been separate. In fact, the fellow who married them threatened to not to perform the ceremony because they had been adamant about having separate bank accounts. Her credit is under her name; his under his. I think there is one joint credit card account and of course, the mortgage is joint. But cars and anything else are separate.

 

Why the heck would the person who married them be privy to their financial arrangements?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[AngeliqueC]

I was pretty damaged - fresh out of a whacko rebound relationship from ending marriage number two - never really took time to heal from marriage number one. I knew I DID NOT want to remarry until my kids were grown and self-sufficient. Long story short, exh1 cheated - but it turned out he is gay/bi; exh2 was into BDSM with she-males, addicted to drugs and alcohol (self medicating bipolar) and abusive in every sense. Rebound relationship was with a man 28 yrs my senior.... MM brought some sense of sanity and safety and fun back into my heart. But I tested him for YEARS - I don't see how he put up with it, other than he loves me. And I finally came around to accepting that it was okay to be loved and I realized he was never going to give up on me - on us. And now I'm convinced that if he is ready to make our relationship more "normal", so am I.

 

Lois, read the "snapshot" description of my kids' fathers, then think about what would be better for a young man growing up - their examples of "manhood" or a man who tales the time to help them with their homework, listens to them across the dinner table, goes to their school and extra-curricular funtions, tells them repeatedly how proud he is of them, how impressed he is by their efforts, and treats them like real human beings instead of accidental garbage the was an unwelcome by product of marriage (as their fathers did), plus loves their mom and shows it by treating her like a valued partner (instead of calling her filthy names, leaving her battered and bruised, humiliating her in public, etc) and if you can still honestly say that they would have been better off with their dads than being around a man like that, well, then you and I just have very different ideas about what makes a young man grow up to become a good man.

 

For the record, both "kids" turned out pretty well. They both graduated high school and went onto community college. One took a job in IT after getting an associates degree, married (7 yrs now), finished a bachelor's degree while working and recently took a job at more than double his previous salary. The other went from community college into military service, married (5 yrs) has a son (3 1/2 yrs), and is back in school with the goal of becoming a high school social sciences instructor. They both have wives who are supportive of them and their goals, and good realtionships with their inlaws as well as me and mm. As for him being married, they would rather he was married to me, but accept that it's a decision he has to make. And, just to satisfy any tawdry curiosity, we were never screwing each others brains out in front of the kids; our private moments were just that, private - just like any other normal couple would do where their kids are concerned.

[AngeliqueC]

MsF, it was part of the premarital counseling session the officate required under his religious beliefs. It didn't matter that they were not of his faith - it was his responsiblity as a believer to marry people in good faith that they were entering into a traditional marriage.

 

When you think of it, it's no different from some of the judges and ministers today who are refusing to marry same sex couples - it goes against their personal beliefs about what makes a marriage.

[OldRover]

Actually, their finances have always been separate. In fact, the fellow who married them threatened to not to perform the ceremony because they had been adamant about having separate bank accounts. Her credit is under her name; his under his. I think there is one joint credit card account and of course, the mortgage is joint. But cars and anything else are separate.

 

Yea, that's absurd... absolutely non of his business. I've always kept my finances separate. However, I have no problem with a common "household" account, but I'd never share a mortgage, no upside and a lot of downsides.

[SolG]

Actually, their finances have always been separate. In fact, the fellow who married them threatened to not to perform the ceremony because they had been adamant about having separate bank accounts. Her credit is under her name; his under his. I think there is one joint credit card account and of course, the mortgage is joint. But cars and anything else are separate.

 

Finances was one of the topics--along with sex, children, etc, etc, ect--on my compulsory pre-marital counselling program as well.

 

Angelique I'm curious about how financially enmeshed you personally are with your MM. It sounds like he's been quite a support for your sons in this dimension... What about you? Would it leave you in a precarious situation if he leaves you or something happens to him? I hope not.

[AngeliqueC]

Fortunately, I'm pretty well set. Nice investment portfolio, house is on my name & paid for, have another in my name as investment prop & it's paid for too. No debts.

 

He just happens to be the one who is geographically there for the kids now - if the kids get into a money mess, we will figure out how to bail them out without much trouble. I feel better now knowing he has seen their future apartment and read over the lease - and he's taken a major role in hooking them up with the right folks at the college, for classes and p/t jobs, and gotten them references for childcare options. It's up to them now to follow thru. Just so much the "old folks" can do!! (And frankly, my son is more receptive to advice from mm than mom - it's a guy thing, I think!)

[Hope Shimmers]

The whole thing is .... unconventional, for lack of a better word, but probably more common than it seems.

 

One thing I'm confused about - do you feel you are "waiting" for him to leave her, or will you be happy (content) if it goes on this way forever?

 

If his wife were not in the dark about this, it might even be a good arrangement, but only as long as EVERYONE was on the same page.

[SolG]

The whole thing is .... unconventional, for lack of a better word, but probably more common than it seems.

 

One thing I'm confused about - do you feel you are "waiting" for him to leave her, or will you be happy (content) if it goes on this way forever?

 

If his wife were not in the dark about this, it might even be a good arrangement, but only as long as EVERYONE was on the same page.

 

I agree. Angelique, it sounds a rather Hepburn-Tracy-ish affair.

 

Hepburn and Tracy were together for many, many years. He steadfastly refused to divorce his W. Neither woman was entirely happy... But apparently happy enough. He died in Hepburn's arms, but she couldn't go to his funeral. After his death Hepburn called Mrs Tracy to see if now they could talk about things. The widow's response? 'Oh, I thought you were a rumour...' And that was that.

[AngeliqueC]

Hope, I feel more like I'm waiting for him to either accept this reality or decide he wants to live a normal life with me. He keeps saying he wants to be here, to be with me exclusively, that it is time to make the change, but he wants to tie it to his retirement. I know you and I have talked around this before here at LS; I worry that as he grows older, if he doesn't make some sort of break with her, it will become increasingly difficult for him to continue to travel to see me. And, frankly, I have no desire to move back to where he is - even with the kids there - and deal with horrible allergies, a high cost of living, the awful traffic (we were on the phone today as he was driving/inching along the freeway - another major wreck that wouldn't even be a blip on the evening news had brought five or six lanes of traffic - ONE WAY - to a standstill). I'm out in the country now, it's quiet, I know all my neighbors (and in some cases, several generations of their families), the cost of lving is low, I'm not subject to the whims of an HOA, the biggest traffic jam is going to be when Walmart restocks Blue Bell in the ice cream freezer! Most importantly, since moving back here, my fibromyalgia has mostly gone into remission; when I lived there, I had huge swaths of time where I could barely move from the bed to the bathroom. I don't want to risk ever getting in that shape again!

Edited August 15, 2015 by AngeliqueC

[sandylee1]

It's all a bit sad in some ways and I can't help thinking if the son's ever cheat on their wives, they've seen it from their own 'father' for years, so it seems like acceptable behaviour to them. Doesn't seem like they've known any different than their mother being the OW.

 

If the BW finds out he's cheating at 67, she may well stay, but if she'd known at 47........she could still have moved on. All this 'she knows' is speculation. She will know when he tells her. This is not the age group to snoop and many of this age don't use emails or smart phones, so nothing like key loggers and spy ware.

 

When the wife in a sexless marriage was caught cheating, she said she thought her H was cheating too. It's an assumption people make and convince themselves to ease their conscience.

 

If I found I was being cheated on at that age, I probably wouldn't bother with a divorce either, but in this situation (with the BW having no kids) , I would get divorced , to get my share of the assets so that upon my death or even H's death my money didn't go to the OW or her sons.

[AngeliqueC]

Sandy, the one thing that might keep my sons from being unfaithful is precisely that - they have seen first hand the emotional toll on both the ow and the mm. I don't think they would ever willingly put themselves in that situation. So far, they've both had smooth sailing in that aspect of their marriages.

[Doublegold]

Reminds me of Charles Kuralt.

 

 

Charles Kuralt?s secret life - Salon.com

[AngeliqueC]

And I saw this today. http://news.yahoo.com/ex-president-warren-hardings-love-child-confirmed-dna-184006977.html

[AngeliqueC]

I think what is bothering me the most, deep down, is how his wife will react if he does move out, regardless of whether he tells her about us or not. I've seen so many horror stories, and having been through two divorces myself, I know what an emotional roller coaster it is, especially for the person who is surprised by the divorce - or surprised by an affair that leads to a divorce. Of course, I realize I have no control, no say in what goes on between them - but on the other hand, I'm in the fallout zone and I need to find a way to prepare for any aftereffects. Of course, if he stays with the status quo, it's really a waste of time and energy to worry over this. I usually go with "cross that bridge when you come to it" but right now, I feel like I should know more about that bridge - is it rickety, solid, or a drawbridge that will stall traffic, or maybe get stuck? Is there a viable detour? I love him and I would love for him to follow through on his desire for us to be together - but can he really make the journey? And will she throw obstacles and boulders and sharp knives at him - or us? Or will she breathe a sigh of relief?

Edited August 15, 2015 by AngeliqueC

[Civil]

I think what is bothering me the most, deep down, is how his wife will react if he does move out... will she throw obstacles and boulders and sharp knives at him - or us? Or will she breathe a sigh of relief?

 

Or might she be utterly destroyed? And so late in life that her chances for recovery or repair are virtually nil. The possibility that she could be dreadfully hurt doesn't even make the list?

 

There is an assumption, only an assumption, that the BW sort of knows, subconsciously, by implication or just somehow... She has been prohibited from any participation in her WH's in plan, but she must know, right? Because if she doesn't, the extent of the betrayal by OW/MM, including the deep involvement of the OW's children, is pretty horrific.

 

Twenty years of denial and rationalization builds a pretty strong fortress against the realities of getting what we want by dishonest means, but it's not impregnable.

 

In a business or professional context, the ethical flaws would be pretty obvious:

-A is an entrepreneur with a rocky history

-B and C are legal, 50/50 partners in a long-standing investment fund with mutual non-compete clauses.

-B invests funds, expertise and time in A's business, but insists that the account the enterprise be kept secret from C. Additionally, he takes on financial obligations that, though unknown to C, will legally revert to C if there is a default.* B's reason for violating his contract: he doesn't like working with C any more, has lost interest in the company, but will not even entertain the financial, professional and personal costs of dissolving it.

-The investment stream remains open and increases for two decades. Two decades. Until such time as C's professional choices are so limited as to be no real threat. Now B can move forward to dissolve the company without sustaining damage to his interests.

 

*Except in common-law states, both spouses are liable for financial obligations originated prior to the date of legal separation. However unlikely, the WH set his BW up to have to pay debts on behalf of the OW's kid.

[sandylee1]

Reminds me of Charles Kuralt.

 

 

Charles Kuralt?s secret life - Salon.com

 

Interesting indeed... wow.......29 years as the OW.

 

There are many more men like this I'm sure. That's never gonna change because women will always put up with being mistresses.

 

I guess that's why they call it a man's world. We're definetly the weaker sex in this regard.

 

How many men would be the single OM for anything near this length of time.

[Poppy47]

Angelique

 

Age is one of the factors that stopped xMM leaving his wife. He is 73 and she is 70.

 

She would not recover and he wouldn't either. I think if he had left he would have gone back very quickly.

 

I hope your dream comes true eventually and that it is worth while for you.

It could end up giving you more heartache than you already have.

 

Best wishes,

Poppy.

[Sub]

Maybe I'm a little confused, but what you've described is pretty much a non-existent relationship between them. He goes out and walks the mall and drinks coffee instead of actually being with her. They do nothing together. He seems to take more of an interest in your kids lives than hers. Why the concern over how she would take it if he does move out? She doesn't seem to give a s**t. For all anyone knows, she may be sitting at home thinking,"Can you believe this idiot? He still hasn't left."