fryingpan Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 What do you as a christians adhere to? It seems to me that American christians seem to have the "eye for an eye" mentality and christians from other countries seem to be more about forgiveness and love thy neighbor mentality... On the other hand Christianity was brought to America by europeans. This has always confused me as these two attitudes seem to directly contradict each other. How can you support an eye for and eye punishment and yet preach forgiveness? I do not intend any offense, I am genuinly curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 fryingpan, It seems to me that American christians seem to have the "eye for an eye" mentality and christians from other countries seem to be more about forgiveness and love thy neighbor mentality. Hmmm, I'm not sure where you get this idea from that there is a difference? Link to post Share on other sites
deadelvis Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 eye for an eye... then ask forgiveness. Link to post Share on other sites
casey.lives Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 neither. i just cross people off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 My fav podcaster so eloquently broke down how "eye for an eye" is misconstrued. It doesn't mean that if you've been wronged you get a green light to go all Rambo/The $unisher and do the same thing to them....it means "if" you do decide to get even and/or punish them, the thing you do should be at the same level they did to you. So, if they took an eye, you can't go and rip out "both" of their eyes cuz they only took "one" eye from you. Some scriptures are clear that while eye/eye and getting back at them is cool, forgiveness and calling it a day is a better course of action. Eh, but some people have selective reading/understanding of the scriptures. Now, the "love thy neighbor"? Eh, again, I think it's more of a metaphor than to be taken literally... I mean, I've lived in several hoods both with Home Owner Associations/HOAs and without. But people can be so nasty and nosy as neighbors. The gossip, lack of care of the community/area, and/or basic checking on the old lady next door to see if she ate that day just isn't there. People leave trash out, keep their property looking nasty, and barely interact with each other - unless it's cuz of gossip and/or drama. So, telling them to "love" each other is probably a strong message to treat your neighbor at a certain level cuz gosh, you live so close to each other and watch ID's "Fear Thy Neighbor" to see how miserable and ugly it can get when neighbors can't get along. Link to post Share on other sites
Clarence_Boddicker Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'd say it's situational & "flexible" (what's best for me), which is typical with most people (believers and non believers) who are more hypocritical than genuine. Looking out for #1 & manipulating for material or social gains is a base human behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I believe in forgiving the person who smacked my face. I do not believe that means I stand there and let them keep smacking. I believe in forgiving the fobber that fobs my house. That does NOT mean I do not let them suffer the natural and legal consequences of breaking the law. An eye for an eye out of anger is not Christlike, it is hateful. Kumbaya hugs and bunnies for criminals is not really love; it's fluffy nonsense. So I believe in forgiveness and natural consequences. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tayla Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Justice is the medium anchor to the forgiveness and garnering fair reconciliation. When seeking just balance and fair treatment, forgiveness tends to follow... Link to post Share on other sites
Author fryingpan Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I believe in forgiving the person who smacked my face. I do not believe that means I stand there and let them keep smacking. I believe in forgiving the fobber that fobs my house. That does NOT mean I do not let them suffer the natural and legal consequences of breaking the law. An eye for an eye out of anger is not Christlike, it is hateful. Kumbaya hugs and bunnies for criminals is not really love; it's fluffy nonsense. So I believe in forgiveness and natural consequences. When I think of the "eye for an eye" mentality I think about the types who thinks the death sentence should be applied to all people guilty of murder/manslaughter no matter what the circumstances were. What inspired me to make this thread was an arguement I saw on the comment section of a youtube video. Basicly it was about some teenage girl who had been guilty of murder, and the arguments from the american christian man was that she should be killed herself(he went on and on about how he would do it himself if he got the chance:rolleyes:) The other side of the arguement was that the bible teaches forgiveness, and he countered that it teaches "an eye for an eye". So it made me curious about what the view in the christian community actually is, in general. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I am not completely against the death penalty, but I think it should be applied very sparingly, and the person better be absolutely without a doubt guilty. I'm talking Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. Because this is a relationship site, there are lots of threads about affairs/infidelity. So I'll use that as an example. One can forgive the cheater, but that does NOT mean one has to stay married to the cheater. And responding to cheating by going out and cheating yourself isn;t really an answer either. I think balance is the key. A lot of people who go way of the forgiveness deep in kind of live in fairyland where you invite your rapist to tea and give him a hug. I'm sorry - that is ludicrous. Then again, People who just obsess over vengeance vendettas and call for the murder of all murderers in some angry rant aren't exactly being like Jesus either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 people who do bad things should be made responsible and bare the consequences of their bad behavior. No consequences, no punishment would only encourage their bad behavior to persist and harm other people. Punishment or consequences of that behavior is not similar to revenge. I believe the best revenge is living well and being happy. I live in Europe. I do not believe in capital punishment. Link to post Share on other sites
Author fryingpan Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 people who do bad things should be made responsible and bare the consequences of their bad behavior. No consequences, no punishment would only encourage their bad behavior to persist and harm other people. Punishment or consequences of that behavior is not similar to revenge. I believe the best revenge is living well and being happy. I live in Europe. I do not believe in capital punishment. I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be consequences or punishment for criminal wrongdoings. Thats not I think what forgiveness means. Infact I'd say in alot of european countries the sentences are too lenient. On the other end of the spectrum in America. It seems christians are very aggresive and vengeful. And "forgiveness" doesn't seem to be taken into account at all. Not to different from muslims, who are far more brutal, but the attitude is similar. It seems to me the view of God is entirely different in europe compared to america. In europe the idea seems to be that God is kind and forgiving and loves everyone... While in the US it is that God is all powerful and judgemental, and who will condemn all non-believers, homosexuals, sinners etc to an eternity in hell. Link to post Share on other sites
candie13 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be consequences or punishment for criminal wrongdoings. Thats not I think what forgiveness means. Infact I'd say in alot of european countries the sentences are too lenient. On the other end of the spectrum in America. It seems christians are very aggresive and vengeful. And "forgiveness" doesn't seem to be taken into account at all. Not to different from muslims, who are far more brutal, but the attitude is similar. It seems to me the view of God is entirely different in europe compared to america. In europe the idea seems to be that God is kind and forgiving and loves everyone... While in the US it is that God is all powerful and judgemental, and who will condemn all non-believers, homosexuals, sinners etc to an eternity in hell. when something really bad happens, it's traumatic to the victim. After digesting the episode and with time, the victim may learn to take distance between their life and the traumatic even. With time, maybe even forget about it. I think one cannot forget about something unless that thing losses meaning, becomes insignificant. If one is really attached to the past, if they live and relive that bad episode that has happened to them, they cannot detach from it. I don't know if forgiveness is possible. I think detachment is. And detachment brings healing. It's up to God to forgive us all... as for how people see God in Europe... I think God is dead, in Europe. A lot less alive compared to the US. But maybe it's just me...I think people stopped caring that much about religion. Link to post Share on other sites
Tayla Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Fryingpan, while our US Govt and politics are very much of that old adage, an eye for an eye, most genuine practicing (sinner) christians do invoke forgiveness....its why we have guilt in our lives and often seek ways to atone. I try not to group people in such away that reflects poorly on the goal. Most sinners of any stature will tell you, that forgiveness has been hardest practiced on themselves...yet practice we do! Most religions have some practice of forgiveness in their doctrine.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author fryingpan Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 when something really bad happens, it's traumatic to the victim. After digesting the episode and with time, the victim may learn to take distance between their life and the traumatic even. With time, maybe even forget about it. I think one cannot forget about something unless that thing losses meaning, becomes insignificant. If one is really attached to the past, if they live and relive that bad episode that has happened to them, they cannot detach from it. I don't know if forgiveness is possible. I think detachment is. And detachment brings healing. It's up to God to forgive us all... as for how people see God in Europe... I think God is dead, in Europe. A lot less alive compared to the US. But maybe it's just me...I think people stopped caring that much about religion. I'm talking about the specificly christian communities in europe and america. Not the populations as a whole. Besides, religion and God still plays a fairly large role in most of southern and eastern europe. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 What do you as a christians adhere to? It seems to me that American christians seem to have the "eye for an eye" mentality and christians from other countries seem to be more about forgiveness and love thy neighbor mentality... On the other hand Christianity was brought to America by europeans. Can you explain more about other countries who seem more about forgiveness? I'm curious! Which countries are you talking about (I may want to move there ). Regarding forgiveness in these countries, do you mean in terms of the death penalty, or punishments for crimes? Or the general social culture? This has always confused me as these two attitudes seem to directly contradict each other. How can you support an eye for and eye punishment and yet preach forgiveness? God's ways are not our ways. There are things we won't fully understand in this life. However, Jesus paid all sin so we can be forgiven. When you know that kind of love, it's not hard to extend the same forgiveness to our brothers, sisters and neighbors. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) What do you as a christians adhere to? It seems to me that American christians seem to have the "eye for an eye" mentality and christians from other countries seem to be more about forgiveness and love thy neighbor mentality... On the other hand Christianity was brought to America by europeans. This has always confused me as these two attitudes seem to directly contradict each other. How can you support an eye for and eye punishment and yet preach forgiveness? I do not intend any offense, I am genuinly curious. Forgiving others benefits ourselves. Imposing law and order benefits society. As individual Christians we should forgive everyone. However, for our society to exist, there should also be justice. Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth is found in Codex Hammurabi and Hebrew Law. In ancient Israel it meant law should provide equal retaliation. What that means is determined by the laws, ergo the punishment fits the crime. It was a way to summarize a general judicial philosophy. Judicial system should meet that out objectively, whereas if an offense happens to you or me, we are more likely to respond emotionally. In the case of your YouTube comments (YouTube comments are 90% trolls, I wouldn't waste a lot of energy) our constitution protects against cruel and unusual punishment so thankfully your opponent's idea of justice is likely limited to venting on social media. BTW, he could be a genuine Christian, but misinformed. Many people of all faith's and creeds are misinformed. Of course, we do not know the case you are talking about. Relevant passage: For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Sermon on the Mount: You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Important to know the context here. The Pharisees were using "eye for an eye" to take personal vengeance, violating this philosophy. Christ was bringing the meaning back to its origin: Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord. (Lev 19:18). To give you an idea of the significance of this...where Christ said if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. During Christ's time, Israel was occupied by Rome. Romans were perceived as spoiling their holy land. It was very offensive to be forced to carry the armor of a roman soldier for a mile (impressment). Christ said to carry it for two. Edited August 13, 2015 by TheFinalWord 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ration22 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 From God's vantage point forgiveness is extended to all universally. Everyone's sins have been forgiven but there's still natural earthly consequences. If you steal something you will still go to heaven and are forgiven by God but you will still have to go to jail. If a man cheats on his wife thats the end of his marriage but not the end of his relationship to God. I believe everyone goes to heaven but that's not a license for sin because you might live a long time on this planet to reap earthly consequences. If I had revenge motivations I would be against the death penalty because I don't want the serial killers and rapists to get to go to heaven so soon. Keep them alive as long as possible in prison and let them suffer. Link to post Share on other sites
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