lolablue17 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Yes I need to know that she is being completely open and honest with me, it depends on whether I call it off right now or try and reconcile if I can come to terms with what's happened as it stands. I'm pretty confident the questions I put to this guy will tell me one way or another. If she is STILL drip feeding truth there can be no reconciliation. Also what does LS mean? I googled quickly but could find out How many times your wife lied and trickled truth you in one day? 4 times? 5 times? And each time you got a little more truth - it was only by force after she had no choice. I'm always amazed how people can look the other way, desperately trying to find imaginary scenarios, in which they could avoid the inevitable shiny reality. Same as her, he will tell you only things he thinks will calm you down, the word "truth" is not in his or her vocabulary, right now. You will never get to the bottom of it by listening to her or to him. They're probably coordinating they're stories right now! When terrorists face a gun towards hostages, the hostages will agree to politically support them on camera, they will agree to admit that they killed president Kennedy, if they knew it will save them. you put a gun (divorce) in her face, and still hoping she will focus on telling you the truth? The same as her lies on "what happened" (I can easily tell you what has happened- They're having sex for months), she is lying to you in the face about promising that she will do "what ever it takes to fix bla bla bla bla.... She is now in surviving mode!! there's zero meaning or intention in her promises. She screwed him twice after her last commitment "to do what ever it takes"... She isn't\wasn't only lying to you in the face. She swore in your child's life, with no hesitation to commit perjury. There is no sign of a remorseful wife who understands deeply what she's done. And there will never be on that situation. It's doomed. Because if you stay, it means you give her a free pass to cheat in the future, to lie, to commit perjury. Why not? It pays off... She did all this and got away with it. I think that you can stay in this marriage if: 1. You agree to more cheating. 2. you agree to open marriage. Edited August 19, 2015 by lolablue17
Celestial-dreamer Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 It is screaming they had sex, you know it too. The deleted texts? They were probably yhe sexual ones. He had a burner phone (just as likely your wife will have one now, he may have told her to) as you say he's a serial cheater, his wife needs to know this. You want an STD check, I imagine his wife needs one more! Once you have your phone call, tell his wife. This is beyond a single affair, she needs protecting from him. You can do that, dont worry about breaking up a marriage, he's not given his wife a second thought. That isn't a marriage. Keep all texts off OM, they are proof. Show his wife. That poor woman needs help as much as you do, some here say not your problem stay out, can you really sit back now knowing what you know? That guy is a real douchbag. What will you do if he tells you they had sex? Is that the breaker? She's already lied about what they got up to, even seeing him twice after she knew you knew, that's low. And thats all she's admitted to.....there's far more to this. If it was just talk, she wouldn't have gone to see him again knowing it was putting her own marriage in danger.
m.snow Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 just read through about 5 affairs this day in other forums when WS is asked about OMs wife. "OBS is crazy" that's what they all say! its time to contact the OBS. do it yesterday! both of these people need to get back to reality the wayward excuse: "the WW&OM end up together." rather she leave than stay and continue the affair down the road.
singer23 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Likelihood of getting truth from this rat is almost zero.. Your wife probably also has a burner phone. She was actually planning to still continue after she was caught. Now she realizes her game is up and is doing damage recovery for the OM..She already made her choice. Now it is protecting OM and their jobs. Yes, adults stop at kissing and making out..She must think you are an idiot.
Chi townD Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Great job contacting the OM! *facepalm*. See, he said that he'd call you in an hour. But what he should have said is I'll call you in an hour but not before I talk to your wife first and find out exactly what you know so we can get our stories straight. 3
GollumsNightmare Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I was afraid of this. It happens all the time: you THINK you are behaving rationally right now. YOU ARE NOT. You are newly betrayed and are not making the best decisions you can for yourself. Please reread this thread and the advice strangers have been trying to give you! We are trying to keep you from making the same mistakes we did. You are screwing yourself by continuing your contact with the other man. 1. Your wife had an affair. Was there penetration? Who knows? Probably. Does that even really matter. She is meeting him in parked cars making out like teenagers. Do you really think adults that have a chance to have sex are stopping short of penetration? 2. She has continued to lie to you. 3. She met the Other man TWICE after she saw how she hurt you with the affair. 4. She deleted texts. You have been told several times how to recover them if you really want to, yet you ignore that help. 5. You have been told the best way to blow this thing wide open, by contacting his wife and superiors without giving the OM any warning, yet you send a series of texts that show him responding cooly and calmly and make you look unstable. 6. Your gut, your anger, your inexperience with infidelity are not helping you right now. 7. We get it! We have been in your shoes!! We all thought our spouse was different. Sadly, they weren't. 8. Get an independent counselor in real life to seek help on what to do next. 9. Make an appointment with a lawyer today so he can talk some sense into you and keep you from making more mistakes - FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! And I am out. Good luck. 1
Cressida Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 ^^^TRUE!!! What you did was to catch him by surprise and give him a few precious minutes to contact your wife and agree on a mutually-shared story. I understand and I can only imagine the pain you're going through. You probably loved your wife a lot and felt like she dropped a hammer on your head with everything, the whole world came crumbling down for you, particularly as you have young children/a young child. I do sympathize with your situation. This being said, you can do better than this. You have showed self-control and self-respect in the attitude you previously adopted with her- show you the messages or she'll be served papers. However, don't let your own heart stop your reasoning from doing what you know you must do. It seems to me that you are trying to give them an opportunity to tell you what you want to hear other than finding out the raw truth for yourself. I know it's going to be painful but you must know what's going on for real. Don't give her the chance to pull herself together and cook up stories that you'd agree with, because you're too hurt to accept the truth. The dirt on the pants thing- this is evidence #1. Why would a person, any person, have dirt on the inside of their pants unless they took them off? It's not that difficult to recognize this. Please be an adult about it. It is physically impossible to get a pair of pants dirty on the inside unless they were taken off. You mentioned that she claimed to have messed them up the day before- did you guys go anywhere, or did she go anywhere where she took her pants off? A picnic, a game, anything of the sort? #2- she kept feeding you bits and pieces when she felt that you were absolutely bent on finding out what's going on, but she still wasn't coming clean. She was only telling you parts that concur with a classic 'poor little housewife' story- just an 'emotional affair', nothing to see, move it along. At first he had marriage troubles and they were 'just friends', then when the ***** hit the fan, it turned out that they did exchange inappropriate messages with sexual content but nothing else. Had you not seen her for yourself driving out of the park where she met him, you wouldn't have believed she actually met him in person and she most probably would have claimed to have met him online, being involved in a harmless little 'teenage fling' to escape the routine of the marriage and nothing else. No adult male and no adult female in their right minds exchange such provocative, downright lewd messages (so wet that she needs to wipe- that's quite an intimate thing to tell a man) if they aren't acting on it. No adult male meets with an adult female in the park, at night/in the dark, to kiss and fondle. One thing always leads to another. You know this just like everyone else here does, you're a male yourself. They are not 13 year-olds hiding from the parents. Just like she told you that the messages included bad stuff about you that would hurt you- they actually included bad stuff about her, her antics with that man, and only info about you not having any idea about her affair. I know that you want to believe her and you want your 'world' back, but this woman has shattered it with her lies. She has proven her lack of empathy, her enormous lack of remorse, as the mother of a young baby, capable of swearing on her own child to save her lover's ass and her affair at the expense of her relatively young family. This isn't a good woman, this isn't a good marriage, this isn't good material for a marriage that will last you until you're old and gray. You will never be able to fully trust a woman who is capable of giving you bits and pieces of the truth even when faced with the danger of dissolving her family, you'll have to be a constant walking lie detector. Don't do anything rash or angry. Inform his wife about the affair. DON'T send him written messages or leave voicemail in an angry tone, shouting expletives at him. A cop's testimony values more than a civilian's and you could end up framed for threatening an officer. Get on with your divorce plans and get as much as you can in the settlement. You seem to be a young man and there should be no problem to find a good woman who'd share the same values as you, who'd be willing to take care of you, love your child and be loyal and nurturing towards you. Don't give your wife any credit. She has proven to be the worst type of liar, the almost-sociopathic like. The danger is coming and even now, even in the 12th hour, she won't admit to what she's done, express regret and come clean, working towards repairing her mistakes.
elaine567 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Great job contacting the OM! *facepalm*. See, he said that he'd call you in an hour. But what he should have said is I'll call you in an hour but not before I talk to your wife first and find out exactly what you know so we can get our stories straight. There is a huge degree of naivete around when a BS finds out their spouse is cheating, part of that is due to genuine lack of information. Who in a loving loyal relationship is not going to be well read up on burner phones, duplicate laptops, changes of clothing and a "cheating kit" in concealed sports bags, hourly rate hotels, VARS and PIs? But part of that naivete is about not really comprehending how devious, underhand, deceitful, dishonest, dishonourable, disreputable, unethical, unprincipled, immoral, unscrupulous, fraudulent, dubious, dirty, unfair, treacherous, duplicitous, double-dealing, below the belt, two-faced and unsporting those who conduct affairs can be, and that necessarily includes their "lovely" wife or husband. That is a huge shock to the system and apparently many prefer to believe some sanitised version of events, than to fully consider to what lengths their spouse conspired with another to betray them. 2
GollumsNightmare Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Just a reminder of the list CarrieT sent you on page 1...this works better than anything else a man in your situation can do: Unquestionably she is having an affair. OP, get tested for STDs because she has put you at risk. File for divorce and start The 180. 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. So here's the list: Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. No frequent phone calls. Don't point out "good points" in marriage. Don't follow her/him around the house. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. Don't ask for reassurances. Don't buy or give gifts. Don't schedule dates together. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! Don't be overly enthusiastic. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
Diezel Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Buddy, if you reconcile with her, all you are telling her is that this behavior is forgivable for you and she'll just eventually do it again. Do you want to let her know that it's okay to cheat on you? If so, stay with her.
GollumsNightmare Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I SWEAR this is the last message from me! Seeing a lawyer and doing the 180 does not mean you HAVE to divorce. Maybe your wife will see the light some day and return to the woman you need her to be. It is possible. It happens. I have reconciled with my H. BUT it takes a lot of hard, hard work to do that and your WIFE has to be willing to put in that work starting with: 1. absolute NO contact with the other man 2. written (truthful) timeline of everything that happened 3. independent counseling for her or both of you - not marital counseling yet 4. Possibly a polygraph That is the bare minimum to start to dig out of this mess. Good luck. 2
aliveagain Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Over the next few hours I'm upset, and asking her for explanations. She says its not what it seems, it's a guy she met who has come into her work (she's been finishing around 8-9 and he drops in after work) who is having marriage problems and she has been talking to him about it. She had deleted all text messages/calls from him and I asked why all the effort to lie and hide it, she said she's stupid and thought it would upset me if I found out she was friends with another guy. I've never been jealous before. She's known him for about 6 months and says she has met him outside of work once before for coffee. He is a police officer and I called him the next day at work and asked him straight out what was going on. He said just friends, and told me he's having problems at home. I asked why they went to a dark park and not somewhere more public if they just waned to talk, she said his wife was out shopping and if she saw them talking she would freak out as she's crazy. Next morning I noticed that there was dirt on the inside of her jeans, and dirt on the floor mat of the car. I put this to her and she said again nothing happened, they were just talking. Said the dirt must've got in there over the weekend as she was wearing the same pants away, and told me to stop trying to find things. I know this looks extremely suspect, I'm not stupid and I know in 95% of cases this is flat out cheating. I asked her to swear on our little ones life that nothing was going on and that she had no feelings for him. She swore nothing was going on, and her feelings for him 'stem from wanting to try and help him' (actual words). Then after more questioning she starts telling me she's not happy with our relationship etc. My question is, is it remotely possible she could be telling the truth, How do I trust her again? All this has to be dealt with. She swore on your child's life so what value does she put on it compared to the value she put's on other man? Again, the best way to get dirt on the inside of your pants is to have it rub off when your rushing to put your pants back on, dirt that matches the dirt on the floor of her car. Why didn't you notice the dirt on the car mats before, coincidence? Just my opinion but the chance's that she is telling you the truth is very, very low. Retrieve the texts, have her write a timeline with every detail that has occurred between them. As a term of reconciliation tell her she will have to pass a polygraph that you will schedule in a town that her cop boyfriend has no influence. Tell his wife if you want the affair over. Did you hear from O/M? Please read Zingers post "To bust or not to bust?" Edited August 19, 2015 by aliveagain 1
drifter777 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) You need to know that he most likely delayed the talk in order to sync up the story with your WW. He has 1 burner that you know about - he probably has two more. Your wife probably has a burner or two herself. Remember just how hot their relationship is: they had sex in that lot under your nose. She forgot herself in the after-glow and got carried away. Your the meal ticket - he's her lover. Edited August 19, 2015 by drifter777 1
Be_Strong Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 An update: All week I've been making a really conscious effort to show her attention/affection. So you tried the opposite of the 180 and decided to reward your cheating wife's bad behavior by giving her more attention and affection? That is a disastrous strategy. If you decide to try and reconcile with your wife, just know that your wife is probably madly in love with the OM and he is like an addiction for her. Even if she honestly tells you that she wants to stay in the marriage with you and drop the OM, that's easier said then done for her. Women in these types of relationships can't just shut off their feelings for the OM and turn them on for their husband. It's a really long and hard process with a lot of ups and downs, and just like with a drug addict trying to kick the addiction there will probably be relapses. Read some of the threads in the OW/OM forum about the struggles women have trying to give up their affair partners. 5
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I asked her to swear on our little ones life that nothing was going on and that she had no feelings for him. She swore nothing was going on, and her feelings for him 'stem from wanting to try and help him' (actual words). Then after more questioning she starts telling me she's not happy with our relationship etc. My question is, is it remotely possible she could be telling the truth, that nothing happened and all the evidence is purely coincidental? Oh my friend. If you have too much time on your hands, read this sad little tale of a guy who went through exactly what you are going through. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/413444-here-goes Just so you know, I asked my STBXW to swear on our daughter's life that nothing was going on. Because I knew she put nothing at a higher value than that. And she flat out still lied to my face. You'll need to do what you need to do for a while. I've been there and I know you're just looking for advice on how to fix everything and make your wife feel affection. Just let the advice from everyone else her sit with you for a while. The biggest thing you're going to need to learn is that you NEED to trust your gut. It's telling you a lot of things right now. It's telling you when something doesn't seem right, or something sounds fishy. Listen to your gut and go with what it tells you. Your head and your heart are giving conflicting messages and the problem is they are both influenced by external factors. But your gut it never wrong. Ever. Good luck my friend. 4
aliveagain Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 it's a guy she met who has come into her work (she's been finishing around 8-9 and he drops in after work) who is having marriage problems and she has been talking to him about it. Have you access to her schedule, how do you know she's been finishing up at 8 or 9, how do you know that she wasn't finishing earlier like 7 or 7:30 and meeting him before coming home? Can you compare her take home pay to the hours she works? Do you have access to her bank statements? What do the people she works with think about a man coming to see her at closing time for the last 6 months, how many of them suspect her infidelity? How will what they think affect you? What kind of business is she in that requires her to stay until 9. How did they meet that he can be comfortable enough to come to her place of employment anytime he wants to and wait for her until closing time if her hours are erratic? Have you told her family? 1
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 And tell this other guy's poor wife!!!! Do not ignore that there is another potential person who is totally in the dark as to what their scumbag husband is doing behind her back. Plenty of people knew about my STBXW messing around with countless guys but none of them had the decency to tell me. It was as though I was bleeding to death on the sidewalk and everyone kept walking past thinking "Hope someone helps him out. Not me of course, but someone." Don't sweep what is going on under the rug. Regardless of you working things out with your wife, tell this other guy's wife is the right thing to do. 3
Morro72 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Yes I need to know that she is being completely open and honest with me, it depends on whether I call it off right now or try and reconcile if I can come to terms with what's happened as it stands. I'm pretty confident the questions I put to this guy will tell me one way or another. Huh? Why on earth would you believe anything this guy says? 1
Mr. Lucky Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Oh my friend. If you have too much time on your hands, read this sad little tale of a guy who went through exactly what you are going through. I remember your thread from a couple of years ago, hopeful to heartbreak within a couple of days. Hope you're doing better . OP, hope you listen to RightThere and some of the rest of us with painfully similar stories... Mr. Lucky 2
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I remember your thread from a couple of years ago, hopeful to heartbreak within a couple of days. Hope you're doing better . Decided recently to unlock my old thread and provide an update shortly. Doing MUCH better. Hopefully will show as a warning to other that encounter similar circumstances. Or at least show the depths of stupidity one man can achieve!
sandylee1 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 How are you doing SH? Any update from the OM? How has your wife been?
Buckeye2 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) First just a general comment. Every time I’ve see someone swear on their children’s grave, etc. it’s been a lie. I think people pull that expression out of the air when they’re in an extremely desperate situation. You’re in a desperate situation because you did something wrong. Secondly, ADULTS don’t tend to park for hours on a regular basis and not get around to intercourse. Next morning I noticed that there was dirt on the inside of her jeans, and dirt on the floor mat of the car. Others may disagree but I would tell your wife that the OM said that they had intercourse no matter what the OM says and demand that she gets tested for STDs. There is a 99% chance that you would be correct and it might cause your wife to confess. If you’re wrong then you have caused some friction between your wife and the OM. Edited August 20, 2015 by Buckeye2
aliveagain Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Have you had your talk with O/M, did he call you at 1 like he said?
Mr Mind of Shazam Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I sent the OM a txt message last night, it read: I hope it was worth it you prick, that's one marriage and family you've had a part in tearing apart. Let's hope Ash (his wife, they have a 1 year old together) doesn't find out what you've been up to, I'd hate to see another marriage and family destroyed over thist as well Don't worry. I'm sure he really doesn't care.
Mr Mind of Shazam Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 So you are wasting all this energy on this jerk who means nothing, while giving your poor seduced wife a free pass? Just remember she betrayed you, not him. No kidding. I also know of a righteous betrayed husband who confronted his wife's boyfriend, put his hands on him, and ended up on the losing end of a quick, painful physical beating. I've yet to meet the woman that is worth that.
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