Has anyone been here before???

[stuckbloke]

Thanks LadyJane. This is exactly what I'm going to do. I explored it with my therapist and I have such ambivalence about the situation that I can only enter the process and ride it. See what happens. I may suggest moving out for a short while to explore my choices in the cold light of day. Of course, W may make the choices for us.

[Ladyjane14]

[stuckbloke]

OK... so it's all out now.

 

Her first reaction was to ask whether we had had penetrative sex. I told her no, and she said she didn't care about the sex in that case. She felt relief because 'it all makes sense now' and then she felt very angry about one of the details I told her, especially that it was a younger/slimmer woman. MC asked how I felt about future, and I told her that I felt very ambivalent and wasn't in a position to make a decision at that point - I had just got to the point of coming clean and coping with that, but that if I was forced to make a decision there and then I would probably have to leave.

 

End of the session, W stormed out and dissapeared for a couple of hours. I then phoned a few key friends and family members and told them about it. Then W and I met up and she told me it was over between us, that she was completely fed up with me, had a major vent, told me what she thought of me in no uncertain terms selfish, immature, and I am many four letter words that would come out all on here as "***"'. Also said she understood why it had happened, that it was all fantasy and that I was a sad individual, that she pitied me. I have ruined her life, taken everything away from her etc. She is disgusted with me, and what I had done. I tried to just stay listening to her feelings and just be there for her letting it all out, absorb it, resist fighting or fleeing and that was ok - felt very wretched afterwards and found it very very difficult to guage my own emotions, so was unable to answer many of her questions about how I felt. She felt this was spineless and that I needed to grow up. After a couple of hours of crying, screaming in my face etc, she left, and I spent some time on my own, and tried to understand my own feelings, which are a bit all over the place. Am varying from being at peace with the relationship being over (if it is), relieved that it's in the open, feeling a lot more real in general, overwhelmed and scared by the seemingly insurmountable nature of the problems to overcome if we are to ever reconcile, very hopeless about us being able to have a good relationship together in the future, doubt about whether it can work, yet compassion and even some soft feelings for her, although am still very unsure of what I feel and what these things mean. Am going to need the dust to settle a bit before I can understand my own reactions and make sense of what I really want.

 

A big part of the problem for me working through this is my inability to understand and articulate my own feelings, and it's very hard for me to do this with her - I need time, acceptance, trust and emotioanal safety to do that, and even then it's very hard and takes me a while to be sure of what I'm feeling - this a legacy of shutting down emotionally during abuse/bullying, which I have also felt in the marriage. It is a key issue for dealing with in therapy, but even then very difficult to deal with because I leap into my mind to intellectualise my situation and this makes it hard for even therapy to process, because it's easy to 'think' psychology rather than just sit with your feelings.. W says that I don't love her (I certainly havn't in the past 6 months), and there's no point in carrying on if I don't. My feelings certainly don't count at the moment, and in a way, that's quite helpful - I am going to stick with hearing her feelings come out and keep trying to stay with and understand mine when I'm on my own, or talking to people who are supporting me.

 

She has said she is willing to try to make things work, and wants me to make a decision about staying or going, but I just don't feel capable of that right now - it is too big a decision to make with the rawness of feelings of today - the dust needs to settle. I certainly woulnd't want to on the basis of what she said she thought of me today, because in her eyes I'm a worthless sub-human, and I don't want to be with someone who thinks that is who I am. But I understand that that's her way of expressing her rage - at least she doesn't have any problem in that area.

 

Am going to try to look after myself and avoid using any addictive ways of dealing with all the bad feelings about myself, and I guess sharing how I'm doing on here is part of that.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by stuckbloke

She has said she is willing to try to make things work, and wants me to make a decision about staying or going, but I just don't feel capable of that right now - it is too big a decision to make with the rawness of feelings of today - the dust needs to settle.

 

If a return to the status quo was going to work for you.....you need not have told her anything.

 

It's a fairly common reaction from the betrayed spouse, to want to put the relationship back on an even keel. Her boat is rocking....because her world is rocking.

 

The thing that you have to bear in mind is that "the status quo" was NOT working. You've brought this information to light, not because you had to, but because you wanted to. You shared this with her in order to elicit CHANGE. Change must now happen in order for the relationship to move forward.

 

This is why it's sooooo important not to make promises that you aren't 100% certain you'll be able to keep. Forward progress from this point on should be based on agreements that are satisfying to BOTH of you.

 

I certainly woulnd't want to on the basis of what she said she thought of me today, because in her eyes I'm a worthless sub-human, and I don't want to be with someone who thinks that is who I am. But I understand that that's her way of expressing her rage - at least she doesn't have any problem in that area.

 

Try really hard not to give in to self-pity. She had an ABSOLUTE right to be hurt and disappointed. It's understandable that she would react verbally, and call you names.....not preferable mind you, but understandable considering the circumstances.

 

This is where empathy comes in. People aren't perfect. If they were, you wouldn't be in your current situation. Your wife's reaction to all this is going to be messy at times. She's no closer to perfect than you are.

 

So, you'll need to find a balance here....between what is understandable emotional reaction on her part, and what is abusive and damaging to both of you. Work closely with your counselor on setting the parameters.

 

You needn't tolerate abuse with the stoicism of a standing soldier, but you need to be very certain that you're defining it correctly, and not making a victim of yourself everytime she shows an emotional reaction.

 

You can't expect a person to be 100% reasonable, when you've inflicted an irrational amount of psychological pain on them.

 

I'm sure in the next few weeks she WILL say things that are hurtful for you to hear. The litmus test for what is abusive and what is not, may be in what is TRUE, and what is not....regardless of how she verbalizes her statements.

 

For example, if she calls you a "selfish bastard".....well, you might not be a "bastard", but isn't there some truth to the idea that you acted selfishly?

 

Bear in mind that she hasn't had time or preparation to make a decision on "wielding truth as a club".

[I Survived]

Remember - your wife is just hearing this for the first time - you have know about it for months and struggled with the guilt. It's all very new to her. Not only has she now heard about your infidelity, she is also starting to understand why you've been so distant.

She will need time (and lots of it) to absorb what you have told her and will need more time to absorb answers to the many many questions that she will be asking you. You have done the right thing, hopefully not just for yourself.

Try to think of your wife's reaction as a china plate falling to the floor and shattering into a hundred pieces. If you think it's worth fixing the plate, it will take time and patience and lots of glue to put it back together. There will ALWAYS be cracks, but if you love and cherish the plate, the cracks won't matter.

Tell you wife to post on loveshack...we can help her get through this. God I feel her pain and I watched my husband go through what you're going through right now. Hold on. It's one hell of a ride but I know it will be worth it. You know how to love and be loved. Let your wife love you. Good luck, stuckbloke.

[stuckbloke]

Just to let you know she has found and read this thread. Not sure I can go on posting here - perhaps she will use it for her support. Thanks to everyone for all your help.

[whichwayisup]

I think you should keep on posting. Don't hold back! This is YOUR LIFE we're helping you with! If she wants to read this stuff, I think it could you both. Pure honesty, spoken from the heart.

 

Let her start her own thread, it's happened before, fleafly posted and his wife started posting in the OW/OM section while he was posting here on infidelity.

 

Either way, I wish you luck and I hope that you are able to work through this and hopefully find some peace in your life -Whether it be working things out with your wife (I still believe with MC and alot of talking with your wife - ALL those feelings that you've transferred and felt for somebody else - WILL come rushing back and you'll realize it was for your wife all along....) or the marriage ends.

 

Hang in there and I hope you post back anyway.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by stuckbloke

Just to let you know she has found and read this thread. Not sure I can go on posting here - perhaps she will use it for her support. Thanks to everyone for all your help.

 

I can barely comprehend how painful it must have been for your wife to read this thread in it's entirety.

 

You said that she "found" it. I hope you didn't deliberately show it to her. Because I can't imagine what value could be gained in exposing her to the bluntness of these posts. Honesty need not be this brutal.

 

That said, people have gone on in their marriages and recovered from much worse. So, reconciliation is possible, if you BOTH want it badly enough. The dust still needs to settle though. Neither of you will be equipped to make that decision yet. It's too easy to give in to knee-jerk reactions when your wounds are raw. Act in haste....repent at leisure, right?

 

The two of you are in a fairly dark place right now....but there IS light, and you will find it again. Together or separately remains to be seen, but know in your hearts that healing will come. It just takes time.

 

In the interim, try not to inflict any more damage on one another. Nothing positive will be gained in giving in to a moment's vindictiveness. It's very difficult not to act out in angry ways when you're hurting. When you are MOST in need of self-control, that's when it's often at its most elusive.

 

You'll have to dig deep, and remind yourselves that you are parents first and foremost. It helps to prioritize in this fundamental way, because when all else is a mass of confusion and chaos....acting in the best interest of your kid brings clarity.

 

It would probably be good for you to continue on in counseling. Should the marriage become unsalvagable, it's still possible to develop an equitable parenting relationship....one that puts your child first. You'll need to work through the bitterness to get it accomplished.

 

Good luck. May you both find peace and healing.

[stuckbloke]

No - I didn't show it to her, she found it. But everything is laid bare. There has been a lot of crying and talking. She is being very kind, and is devastatingly hurt. We don't know what will happen, but we have given the relationship six months to see where things go. I hope she writes here, because I know she needs support and wisdom, and I know it can be found here. Will update occasionally.

[stuckbloke]

Well, my wife's pain is obvious to all from her posts. Today we are trying to run our son's 5th birthday party. We are both very, very low and I have feelings of wanting to self harm. It's very hard to comfort each other - there is so much anger and hurt. One of the things I'm realising is that we have never had the intense infatuation I have experienced in the last few months, because we gave up sex at a very early stage of our relationship, in order to wait for marriage. We suppressed the chemistry between us, and sex has been difficult ever since. I 'get' everything people say about the fantasy nature of the A, and it's not a question of choosing between W or OW, because I know what I had with OW is not grounded in reality. The question is whether our marriage can ever be truly satisfying, or not. Right now, it's impossible to know, because we're both hurting so badly. MC tomorrow.

[jmargel]

Stuck,

 

If you feel like you are going to harm yourself or others, please contact a doctor immediately. You have to understand something here. Everything that has been held inside you for the past number of years has just been released. Same thing regarding your wife. That is ALOT to deal with. It's kind of like opening a dam and watching the water come in with such great force and speed.

 

It's very hard to deal with all the emotions now, since they are out in the open. Both for you and your wife. Both of you will go through different stages of hurt, anger, compromising and then eventually peace on your decisions. You are not ready to make a decision now and there is no rush to make one. I hope your wife can understand. Part of her showing you her love for you is abiding by what you are feeling. That is TRUE love.

 

I'm glad that you are understanding that this OW was an infactuation, you found in her what you were missing from your wife. However your wife IS capable of the same things that this OW showed you. But with the lack of good communication between you and your wife how can you expect good things from each other? You two need to communicate in a non-defensive manner to get to understand each other. It is a long process however it can be very rewarding.

 

Check out my link in my signature, it may help you some. You two have a common interest and right now it's your son. Both of you focus on him and remember that there is good in BOTH of you. Keep going to counseling as well, this is something you both need.

[whichwayisup]

I agree with JM too. A big red flag went up when I read self harm. Guess there are other issues going on and the stress is getting to you. Please talk to your DOC about it.

 

Can't really add a whole lot more, JM pretty much summed up what I was going to say.

 

You can do this SB, I know it's extremely hard and painful but there IS love there, if there wasn't neither of you would be posting here asking for help or feeling the way each of you do.

[welshie]

guys, the first thing I said to my husband when he talked to me abotu teh self harm was to go to the doctor - we are both so down. There is love here. neither of us knows what's going to happen in the future but at least we're together supporting each other at the moment.

 

(for stuck bloke) babe - I told you this morning - go to the doctors. dont; know what else to say that I haven't already said to you today

 

(not sure if I'm allowed to post on this thread - just wanted people to know that we've discussed the doctors)

[MsMree]

BUT, in my opinion you both need your own "safe-places" to vent - the fact that you now post on this site leaves little room for your H to have that (only because he was here first) - that being said, as for you read'g/writing to his posts, well that is like stepp'g on his toes. Or at the very least, it leaves room for enmeshment which is never healthy for anyone.

 

He does and you do have a right to some amount of privacy.

[whichwayisup]

I agree and disagree. The good that could come out of both posting here is each of them can read what was written and maybe understand where the other is coming from...And also, at times it IS so hard to express thoughts into verbal words, easier in writing them out as I think most speak from the heart when writing. You know it is honest and heart felt.

 

Yes, the downside is the loss of privacy but then again, WHY hide anything now? It's all out in the open with them and right now BOTH need support.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

I agree and disagree. The good that could come out of both posting here is each of them can read what was written and maybe understand where the other is coming from...And also, at times it IS so hard to express thoughts into verbal words, easier in writing them out as I think most speak from the heart when writing. You know it is honest and heart felt.

 

Yes, the downside is the loss of privacy but then again, WHY hide anything now? It's all out in the open with them and right now BOTH need support.

 

Agree 100%.

 

The best way to deal with their issues is to be open and honest. This, IMHO, is a very healthy thread for the both of them. Communication, openly and honestly, is the only way it will come to a resolution.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t60553/

 

I believe your wife has been reading this post from the beginning. I thought you knew that. I looked and couldn't find a post here from me that said that.

 

Anyway, the link above is from April.

[blind_otter]

Well please don't harm yourself, stuckbloke. Also, after reading your wife's threads, I would advise that you NOT cry to your wife about missing your ex-lover. Because that is really heavy to put on your wife, to lean on her for support about missing your ex-lover. That will not promote anything positive and will hurt your relationship in the long run.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Originally posted by MWC_LifeBeginsAt40

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t60553/

 

I believe your wife has been reading this post from the beginning. I thought you knew that. I looked and couldn't find a post here from me that said that.

 

Anyway, the link above is from April.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t60583/

 

Here is the other link. I think I goofed. This is another H/W post.

 

I'm sowwy!!!!!!

[stuckbloke]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I would advise that you NOT cry to your wife about missing your ex-lover.

 

Originally posted by welshie

I asked him why he was crying, he didn;t want to tell me, but then he did.

 

Just need to clarify that I did not want to tell W why I was upset - I did not want her to know how strongly I felt about OW - I did not want her to know the details of what we did together - of course I know how harmful that is - she insisted I tell her why I was upset, she found this thread, - there is no point in refusing to answer her questions at the moment - it just makes things worse because it is more hiding, and frankly, she has a right to know precisely what I did and who I am. So when I was upset and she insisted I tel her why, I told her and broke down with a mixture of grief for the loss I felt, the pain I had caused W and the new pain of knowing that she was seeing this upset of mine. The reality is that I am currently trying to get over another relationship - and I know how utterly awful that is for W, but it's the truth, and we only have a chance to rebuild our marriage when I've done that. It's hard, and I have no idea how long it takes. Having read other people's posts, I'm just glad that I had ended it before she found out - doesn't make it any better, of course, but having read the agony of people who'se spouses are in the middle of the affair and still seeing their OP, I know that in some ways, it is easier for us. But every WS has to go through withdrawal, as I understand it.

 

She knows everything, and it's obvious to me how uttlery devastated she is. I can't believe how much I have hurt her, and I can't understand how I got to a state in which I had absolutely no regard for what it would do her. Of course, affairs are meant to be kept secret, so you never think that it will all become known. Now that it is all known, the extent of my thoughtlessness is laid bare. I wish she had never found out some of the details, especially the music that I had set aside in an iPod playlist, because music is her life, and I have tainted those songs for her forever. This, above all other 'details' of my betrayal of her, is the worst.

 

We have been talking and talking and talking this week - as W says, more openly than we have done probably ever before. We are getting very good at analysing the situation, and I think we both have a lot of insight into the whys and hows our marriage has become so dysfunctional. There is a danger that we could go round in circles a bit with this, but I guess it's important. There are a lot of deeper psychological reasons for us getting together, I think - I was looking for stability when we met, after a decade of turmoil, and W comes from a family in which there was serious addiction problems, in which she had become the 'helper', so perhaps there is an element of co-dependence there.

 

Who knows the future, but I think that the honesty and openness we are learning to have with each other means that we will emerge with either, at best, with a strong and honest marriage together or, at worst, with an honest and reasonable friendship in separation upon which we can base the co-operation we need to raise our son together.

We're both hurting badly at the moment, and in the middle of it is our son, who demands our attention when we desperately need to talk, who we both love with all of our hearts, and who reminds us of the need to treat each other with respect. All your support is really valued.

[blind_otter]

Brutal honesty - why are you hurting? Because you miss the fantasy of you ex-lover? Because you betrayed your marriage and your W instead of dealing head-on with issues that you knew were a problem for you? Because you feel guilty or regret?

 

IMO, your responsibility in this situation, now, is to gird your loins and go once more into the fray - "And you, good yeoman whose limbs were made in England - show us here the mettle of your pasture - let us swear that you are worth your breeding." Regardless of whether your wife demanded honesty, you should not have been weeping for what was and cannot be any longer, in the first place. What good does that do? Cry in secret, cry alone and away from her eyes, if need be, but for God's sake do not shift that burden on anyone's shoulders but your own.

 

I mean honestly, think about how you would feel if your wife had been with another man and was comparing you to him and missing HIM.