Am I missing the boat entirely, here?

[Fair]

I recently started chatting with someone on Facebook who has been pressing me to meet and go for coffee with him for the past two weeks. I was willing, until I saw his Facebook relationship status. It says "it's complicated'. I pointed it out and blew him off, even though he said he just wanted to be 'friends'. Now, I don't buy the fact that men pursue women with the intention of just wanting to be friends, and considering that his facebook status says he's not single - exactly - I told him I'm not getting mixed up in any b.s and blew him off.

 

 

After the fact, I started second guessing myself. The truth is, I'm very lonely. I pay a big price by always playing it smart and am starting to wonder if I've got the whole thing wrong. Maybe no one comes easy... maybe you can't expect everyone to be emotionally unattached and if they throw you a line maybe you should just grab onto it and be willing to fight for what you want. Is this what people in successful relationships have all had to do? Should I be doing it too instead of waiting for the ideal person to come along? Maybe they never will? Is always doing what I think is right what's keeping me from finding a man? Should I change my mind and go out with this guy after all? Any thoughts?

[Arieswoman]

Fair,

You did absolutely the right thing.

 

There are guys out there that are unattached and looking for someone like you - you just need to go find them.

 

Never compromise your standards or start seeing someone who isn't free. These pages are full of OWs who, if truth be told probably wish they'd never got into the situation in the first place.

 

Is always doing what I think is right what's keeping me from finding a man?

 

No, it's stopping you from wasting time on the "wrong" men.

 

Should I change my mind and go out with this guy after all?

 

No, no, and no again !

 

I can remember, when I was single and dating, that there were other girls I knew who had a steady stream of guys, (mostly unsuitable often unavailable). I can remember sitting listening to all their angst and thinking "maybe I don't have anyone, maybe I get lonely from time to time, but at least I don't have all that drama and heartache."

 

Cast your net a bit wiser and someone will come along.

 

Stay strong x

[Fair]

Thanks for the reply Arieswoman. Deep down I agree and know I'm saving myself a lot of heartache. But nowadays anger is starting to get the better of me.This is how I've been feeling in general, lately. I wrote this in an email to someone...

 

 

"Someone said to me once: "I've been a good person all my life and where has it gotten me?" I'm beginning to feel the same way. If you're alone and lonely and depressed no one cares as long as they're happy, and if you're a woman your female friends certainly won't help you... in fact, if you're locked away by yourself they seem to prefer it that way. I reached out to my 'friends' for support and got ignored and eventually dropped altogether by one who couldn't even be bothered to invite me out or to call me on the phone once in a blue moon or to tell me when she was coming to town for a visit. I feel as if I'm always being told to... "stay in your cage." I'm fed up. Why the hell should I bother being a nice girl anymore? So nice and so understanding about everything, always taking the high road. It's bull****."

 

 

It's sad when the world teaches you there's no point in playing nice anymore, but it does. I'm sorely tempted to get into the ring and start throwing some punches for once. No one has ever particularly respected my own relationships when they've occurred or to be kind or to take the high road with me.

[stillafool]

I would say you are smart in avoiding heartache. Suppose you did take this guy up on his offer and really starting falling for him. He goes back to (or never left) the other woman/women he is involved with and blows you off. You now feel hurt and used because you gave yourself to him. If you are the type of person who can have casual sex with no attachments or commitment then perhaps you could have this type of relationship. Most women can't.

[Fair]

You're right also, stillafool. I am not that kind of woman and I'm not sure I ever could be but some demon on my shoulder is telling me to give it a try.

The irony is, that all the most selfish people seem to be the happiest, walking in and grabbing up the spoils while people like me get ripped off in life. They usually have the most devoted partners, while I'm sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to appreciate me. It's unfair. I can't get rid of this anger. I feel like I'm doing everything wrong even though on the face of it it looks like the right thing.

[casey.lives]

It's complicated means when you are entering, you are essentially okay with complications. I, for one, know what i'm looking for, an available single family orientated simple good guy. Complicated tends to stay complicated so.. I like being a nice girl, no matter what others do. It makes me happy and i like to have faith and the ability to spread it among others. I want my unborn children to play nice with others so... besides, in my experience when something is yours..it just is. As a woman, i also like when a man is the initiator as it makes me feel desired and special.

Edited August 19, 2015 by casey.lives

[Fair]

you know, now that I've cooled down a little and am no longer considering going to extremes from nice girl to vengeful vamp... I'm thinking that my problem is not that I'm nice, it's that I've never learned to strike a balance. I should neither act recklessly nor play it too safe.

 

 

The guy on Facebook asked for a chance to let him show me who he is when I pointed out his relationship status. He did not deny it, nor did he ask for anything more than friendship. "If things don't feel right, you can always walk away..." he said. Isn't that fair enough?

 

 

Sitting here in this empty room listening to the clock ticking I can see very well what I've gotten out of life by always playing it safe. Nothing, that's what. Isn't there such a thing as playing it too coy for your own good?

 

 

I've been in this guy's position myself. I've made friends with other men while hanging on to a relationship I knew would fail eventually, not to say I cheated because I didn't. I just knew it was unwise to close myself off entirely to others for the sake of the guy I was with who didn't really value me. We did break up as I knew we would and I ended up alone. But I knew if I'd met someone with potential when I was with him I'd have had the strength to end it sooner and move on completely with somebody else, no regrets.

 

 

It's so easy to judge ourselves and others. But we all make clumsy attempts at seeking happiness, with fear and hope colliding. We all want guarantees to some degree or another. We're all scared. It doesn't always just mean we're bad people looking to hurt others intentionally.

 

 

Life = risk, doesn't it? How can you ever really know whether or not you've done the right thing if you don't give someone the slightest chance? Not to say you should be stupid about it. But don't you have to be willing to risk being hurt in order to find happiness? I haven't been doing that. And it hasn't been working for me. I'm not thinking of taking the wall down completely... but maybe just lowering it a bit and letting life in for once.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Fair]

it would be nice if some men would chime in? What do you think of this situation?

[Arieswoman]

Fair,

This;

 

He did not deny it, nor did he ask for anything more than friendship. "If things don't feel right, you can always walk away..." he said. Isn't that fair enough?

 

is just a hook to lure you in - don't fall for it. These sort of guys say they just want "friendship" (and that usually means getting into your knickers) will love-bomb you until you're dizzy and then, when the "complications" emerge and you complain, say "well you could have walked away, couldn't you?"

 

Please don't go there.

 

I dated a guy from OLD who said he was "separated". I assumed he was separated waiting for a divorce. Well, 3 dates later I found out he was "separated" alright - his wife was in a nursing home with a progressive degenerative neurological condition. I dropped him like a hot potato.

 

When I was single and dating I had enough challenges with managing and maintaining a home and career, I certainly didn't want any "complications".

 

IMO you should definitely pass on this one - there will be others

[Fair]

You're a smart woman, Arieswoman.

 

 

It's often painful to face the truth to the point where it's easy to lose your head and start rationalizing. Especially when you're lonely. But you're right about him and the fact that he's just trying to lure me in. I know it in my gut.

 

 

I'm going to stick to my guns and not let him worm his way into my life. And I'll keep trying to have faith that eventually the right one for me will come along. Thanks for the encouragement and the gentle kick back on the right track. I feel a little better now.

[ShatteredLady]

You're so right. Status should be an easy question to answer! Why don't you try a new interest or something to get you out there meeting more people? I used to throw parties & get friends to bring single male friends to mix with my single girl friends. I know some really nice guys who used to very traditional dating sites. There are lots of great people out there who want serious relationships. I know! It can be so hard o meet the right people but getting involved with a 'complicated' married or coupled guy is ALWAYS a bad idea. You end-up with your self esteme in the toilet & being tempted to lie for the rest of your life to prospective partners because of the 'other woman' shame.

[johndoe2]

I've asked women to do things like go get coffee or go to a movie just to be friends. I wouldn't necessarily have been resistant to more, but would've been fine with friends, as I have few of those. Maybe I'm the only guy in the world to have done this, and 'friends' is always invariably meant as a Trojan horse for escalation. But I doubt it.

[Teraskas]

It's complicated means when you are entering, you are essentially okay with complications. I, for one, know what i'm looking for, an available single family orientated simple good guy. Complicated tends to stay complicated so.. I like being a nice girl, no matter what others do. It makes me happy and i like to have faith and the ability to spread it among others. I want my unborn children to play nice with others so... besides, in my experience when something is yours..it just is. As a woman, i also like when a man is the initiator as it makes me feel desired and special.

 

I applaud you for your honesty, as women like you are far and few in between.

I have yet to find such a woman. Most of the time, they can't even give me a straight up answer as to what kind of man they are looking for. xD

 

A lot of women prefer it that a man is the initiator as that seems to be a "socially deadlocked" role for most.

Who wouldn't prefer to just say Yes / No and show up for a date ?

I sure as hell would.

 

What I ultimately mean with that last part (from a Guy's perspective): encountering a woman who takes the initiative is VERY refreshing, especially when the guy is burned out from having to take the initiative so many times when it isn't reciprocated, be it in dating or a relationship.

[elaine567]

If you're a woman your female friends certainly won't help you... in fact, if you're locked away by yourself they seem to prefer it that way. I reached out to my 'friends' for support and got ignored and eventually dropped altogether by one who couldn't even be bothered to invite me out or to call me on the phone once in a blue moon or to tell me when she was coming to town for a visit. I feel as if I'm always being told to... "stay in your cage." I'm fed up. Why the hell should I bother being a nice girl anymore? So nice and so understanding about everything, always taking the high road. It's bull****."

 

Attached women tend to cut off and stay away from single woman friends as they do not want you stealing their bf/man/husband.

It is very cruel from your POV, but too many women have had their BFF steal their man for it not to be a valid concern.

[elaine567]

A lot of women prefer it that a man is the initiator as that seems to be a "socially deadlocked" role for most.

Who wouldn't prefer to just say Yes / No and show up for a date ?

I sure as hell would.

 

What I ultimately mean with that last part (from a Guy's perspective): encountering a woman who takes the initiative is VERY refreshing, especially when the guy is burned out from having to take the initiative so many times when it isn't reciprocated, be it in dating or a relationship.

 

Men who are not that successful with women, want women to initiate as that means they are on to a winner, they have a guaranteed date - Yay!

Men who are successful with women, do not in general want women to initiate, as THEY do the picking.

Turning down an undesired woman doing the asking, is a bit of hassle, awkward and something they could well do without.

[casey.lives]

Fair: Do what you want to do!!

 

I think being alone and waiting for someone who CAN be with you is brave and risky. so.. i guess we have a different perspectives ..

[Teraskas]

Men who are not that successful with women, want women to initiate as that means they are on to a winner, they have a guaranteed date - Yay!

Men who are successful with women, do not in general want women to initiate, as THEY do the picking.

Turning down an undesired woman doing the asking, is a bit of hassle, awkward and something they could well do without.

 

Honestly at this point in time I've always been the initiator, so truth told it doesn't bother me.

What would bother me is that I'd have no idea how to act should a woman take the initiative. ^_^

 

Anyhow I got distracted and forgot to reply to the topic, LOL. xD:

 

(From a Guy's perspective)

 

Although the genders can be reversed in this situation I honestly wouldn't want ANYTHING to do with a woman who was still in a relationship / married to someone and described their entire situation as "complicated".

Once you start down that path, it quickly turns into a maelstrom of drama that you can't escape from, with gut wrenching feelings that keep you awake at night.

I made that mistake once because I cared about her, but NEVER again. Since then I don't bother settling for being 2nd best, or consolation prize anymore.

 

To me it seems that this guy knew it was a dead end relationship and decided that now was the time more than ever to take advantage of the situation.

This guy, was most definitely looking for something MORE than friends.

If you had proceeded, it was only a matter of time before the "With benefits" part followed.

I have never done a thing such as this, and always declared my intentions as to what I was looking for.

Being a loyalist and honest tends to do that.

 

There are plenty of guys out there who are unattached (*Points at self*), and looking for someone with your qualities. (*Waves at you. )

Believe me, I know how you feel.

After being a "good guy" (I.e. not doormat, "nice guy", etc.) for 3,5 years (Ok, I admit it's been longer, but I meant relevance to dating here. xD) and getting absolutely nowhere in dating, I completely share the sentiment about your "email to someone".

From personal experience, it's been unappreciated / unwanted, etc. by women.

Even to this day I'm still wondering as to why I should continue with it.

 

My point being:

Don't waste your energy on a bottomless pit like the guy you mentioned.

Such a situation will more than likely leave you miserable and unhappy.

Best to save your energy for a guy who is available and worth your time.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Teraskas

[impatiently_patient]

Have you tried a boat show?

[Fair]

Attached women tend to cut off and stay away from single woman friends as they do not want you stealing their bf/man/husband.

It is very cruel from your POV, but too many women have had their BFF steal their man for it not to be a valid concern.

 

 

 

I appreciate this comment. I believe this is true. But if you say it out loud you'll be accused of being the one who is jealous of the friend who dumped you because they're attached and you're not. This adds insult to injury when you've done nothing to deserve it and the only reason it happened in the first place is because they were threatened by you. So thanks for this. Not many women will acknowledge this.

[Fair]

I've asked women to do things like go get coffee or go to a movie just to be friends. I wouldn't necessarily have been resistant to more, but would've been fine with friends, as I have few of those. Maybe I'm the only guy in the world to have done this, and 'friends' is always invariably meant as a Trojan horse for escalation. But I doubt it.

 

You say you wouldn't have necessarily been resistant to more but would have been fine with friends? You still asked them out under the pretense that the thought of getting more never even entered your head. So in other words you HAVE been trying to sneak in on the Trojan horse. LOL. This just goes to show how some men don't even stop to examine their own underlying motives...

 

 

Of course it's one thing if you're single. If you're single and doing this it's okay. If you're Mr. 'it's complicated' ... it's not.

[johndoe2]

You say you wouldn't have necessarily been resistant to more but would have been fine with friends? You still asked them out under the pretense that the thought of getting more never even entered your head. So in other words you HAVE been trying to sneak in on the Trojan horse. LOL. This just goes to show how some men don't even stop to examine their own underlying motives...

Not so at all. I didn't ask them out under any pretenses. I wanted to go to a movie and asked if she wants to go too; or I want to go to lunch and ask if someone wants to eat lunch as well, instead of eating alone. If they had expressed interest in me (they never do) I wouldn't have turned it down.

 

Are you suggesting that, when interacting with a woman in a friendly setting, a man must declare to himself for all eternity that he will never date her and that, should the opportunity arise he will categorically reject any overture toward a romantic relationship? And if he is not willing to so declare his intentions, he has 'alternate motives?' So I have to decide whenever I meet a woman right then and there if I want to pursue her romantically, or not, never ever under any circumstance?

 

I do get that some women think that way. It must be romantic from the start, or any possibility of more than friendship must be positively ruled out from the start. But you must be aware that many women (perhaps more than are of your persuasion) are precisely the opposite: they (or they claim at least) that they prefer for romantic relationships to be born from friendships.

[Fair]

Not so at all. I didn't ask them out under any pretenses. I wanted to go to a movie and asked if she wants to go too; or I want to go to lunch and ask if someone wants to eat lunch as well, instead of eating alone. If they had expressed interest in me (they never do) I wouldn't have turned it down.

 

Are you suggesting that, when interacting with a woman in a friendly setting, a man must declare to himself for all eternity that he will never date her and that, should the opportunity arise he will categorically reject any overture toward a romantic relationship? And if he is not willing to so declare his intentions, he has 'alternate motives?' So I have to decide whenever I meet a woman right then and there if I want to pursue her romantically, or not, never ever under any circumstance?

 

I do get that some women think that way. It must be romantic from the start, or any possibility of more than friendship must be positively ruled out from the start. But you must be aware that many women (perhaps more than are of your persuasion) are precisely the opposite: they (or they claim at least) that they prefer for romantic relationships to be born from friendships.

 

 

You have no obligation to do anything if you're single. If you develop a relationship with a woman as a natural progression of your friendship with her that's great. It's the guy who is already attached who is pursuing single female 'friends' that I have a problem with. Anytime you invite someone of the opposite sex into your life you are flirting with the possibility that something more may develop. I repeat, that's fine if you're single and emotionally available.

 

 

However, to my mind, you already ARE declaring you want a relationship. You're out there asking women out as friends with whom you would not resist having one with if the opportunity occurred. So, you can't say it's STRICTLY about being friends with them that is motivating you. Inviting them out as friends is your way of opening yourself up to opportunity... Again, nothing wrong with it... unless you're already in a relationship and happen to be lying to yourself about your motivations.

[johndoe2]

You have no obligation to do anything if you're single. If you develop a relationship with a woman as a natural progression of your friendship with her that's great. It's the guy who is already attached who is pursuing single female 'friends' that I have a problem with. Anytime you invite someone of the opposite sex into your life you are flirting with the possibility that something more may develop. I repeat, that's fine if you're single and emotionally available.

 

 

However, to my mind, you already ARE declaring you want a relationship. You're out there asking women out as friends with whom you would not resist having one with if the opportunity occurred. So, you can't say it's STRICTLY about being friends with them that is motivating you. Inviting them out as friends is your way of opening yourself up to opportunity... Again, nothing wrong with it... unless you're already in a relationship and happen to be lying to yourself about your motivations.

I still disagree (with the second paragraph). Being motivated by something (an active position) and being open to something (a passive one) are not the same thing. For example, if one of these women, after I asked if she wanted to see a movie or something, specified that she was not interested in a relationship, and I just said 'oh, in that case never-mind,' you would be right. But I wouldn't do that because a relationship wasn't my primary motivation to begin with. I see nothing disingenuous about it. The idea that an honest person only seeks friendships with women whom he would not under any condition date seems quite strange to me.

[elaine567]

It all boils down to

Hot-blooded single male on FB, asks single female out for coffee in public place. FINE

Hot-blooded "its complicated" male on FB, asks single female out for coffee in public place. Hmmm!

 

Complications tend to complicate things, and unfortunately it is usually the one with no "complications", that ends up getting hurt in these situations.