Things I can clearly see now as an exOW

[NewLeaf512]

For any AP have you learned anything from the Forum and advice, bollocking, sympathy etc. that you have read here? I have. I also struggle with some emotions still. Did being here help you change or did you stay mostly the same? I have changed. For better and worse. The better is I will now live in reality, the worse is I am now very suspicious of people. Your thoughts if you are now or have been the OW/OM

[lemondrop21]

For any AP have you learned anything from the Forum and advice, bollocking, sympathy etc. that you have read here? I have. I also struggle with some emotions still. Did being here help you change or did you stay mostly the same? I have changed. For better and worse. The better is I will now live in reality, the worse is I am now very suspicious of people. Your thoughts if you are now or have been the OW/OM

 

Agreed, I started reading LS almost as soon as the A started so I was able to live in reality and actually knew what was coming. I wasn't at all shocked as the typical affair dance played out, even though a teeny tiny part of me had believed that he would be different. As everyone wants to believe.

 

I'm also very suspicious of others, and terrified of marriage. MM seems like such a nice guy, a great family man - that's his reputation at work. I didn't catch on to the fact that he was interested in me for months, because he "wasn't that type." LS has made me see that there are SO many cheaters out there... and different types of cheaters, too. I've vowed that I'll never let my appearance or my sex life go in my marriage, but obviously I will age, and keeping it spicy in the bedroom is easier said than done. And sex is just a piece of it; for many cheaters, MM included, it was more due to emotional disconnect than anything else. I'd like to think that the man I marry will be different, that I'll be able to tell their character beforehand, but LS makes me think... how the heck can I really know? It almost feels like a complete crap shot.

[Poppy47]

New Leaf,

I have learned there is always somebody who is ready to jump on you and point the finger when you need it the least. When you are hurting the most there always seems to be somebody who will turn around and tell you what a selfish immoral idiot you were to be the OW in the first place.

 

In general, the Forum is sympathetic, compared with years ago when the moderators were not as vigilant.

 

Many here make good sense and the general spirit is well meaning.

 

I knew I was an idiot but I did it anyway. I am no different because of the Forum. I don't trust anybody because of the A. If an ordinary man, pillar of the community, upstanding family man, can cheat on his wife for 7 years, anything can happen.

 

I hope you remain cautious for the rest of your life, Leaf. It doesn't mean the good people don't exist. It just means you are more aware of what can happen.

Poppy.

[Shinebrightforever]

On the contrary to the above comment....LS showed me that despite my choices, my reasons for engaging in a 4 year affair...there are people who will take the time to read my pitiful ramblings, and offer up compassion, encouragement, their thoughts...and time. I am a stranger to all, yet have felt supported by many still.

Whenthe bad comments have come....that's life. But have also been in a way, helpful too. It's helped break the fog I was in.

 

Good people not only exist, many share their life on this forum. Many who I have deep appreciation for.

 

At the end of the day, we're all just trying to find our way.

[NewLeaf512]

New Leaf,

I have learned there is always somebody who is ready to jump on you and point the finger when you need it the least. When you are hurting the most there always seems to be somebody who will turn around and tell you what a selfish immoral idiot you were to be the OW in the first place.

 

In general, the Forum is sympathetic, compared with years ago when the moderators were not as vigilant.

 

Many here make good sense and the general spirit is well meaning.

 

I knew I was an idiot but I did it anyway. I am no different because of the Forum. I don't trust anybody because of the A. If an ordinary man, pillar of the community, upstanding family man, can cheat on his wife for 7 years, anything can happen.

 

I hope you remain cautious for the rest of your life, Leaf. It doesn't mean the good people don't exist. It just means you are more aware of what can happen.

Poppy.

 

 

Poppy, 'tis true, there are playground bullies who I think are probably BS who, instead of directing their vitriol at WS, it's pretty easy to be anon here and shred someone who is a complete stranger. I actually feel sorry for those folks because they might be so emotionally retarded that this behaviour is the only way for them to release aggro.

 

 

My worry for myself is I may have to hire a full time private detective to follow me around and check everyone who comes in contact with me for, ... well anything.

 

 

It's a good think I'm looking for work or I would never leave the house.

 

 

The other thing I got was the idea that it is okay to ask myself "Is this what I want?" Because if it isn't, I can leave it right there

 

 

Thanks for your message

[Susmay]

Poppy, 'tis true, there are playground bullies who I think are probably BS who, instead of directing their vitriol at WS, it's pretty easy to be anon here and shred someone who is a complete stranger.

 

...

 

Some of the biggest bullies on this forum have actually been OWs or OWs/turned wives.

 

Most posters however, are not bullies but people who have been very hurt.

 

Given that the majority of posters are OWs or BWs, my impression is that apart from the obvious bullies, BWs can be quite angry and this is reflected in their style of posting towards OWs in particular, and OWs (especially those who haven't had a D-day) can be quite self-entitled and feel that BWs in general, are the "bad guys" in all this, and this too is reflected in posting style.

 

Both OWs and BWs have a tendency to behave like victims, and depending on which "side" you are, you might view this as justified or not.

 

Female posters who are WW, and male posters who are MM/WH get the worst treatment here on LS, while BHs are treated very similarly to BWs.

 

When people are not posters, eg the non-posting WS's/MMs and non-posting OWs/OMs, vitriol tends to be at its highest. I guess this is because we are supposed to be polite to other posters but don't necessarily have to be polite about people who are not posters.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Susmay

[minimariah]

I'm also very suspicious of others, and terrified of marriage. MM seems like such a nice guy, a great family man - that's his reputation at work. I didn't catch on to the fact that he was interested in me for months, because he "wasn't that type." LS has made me see that there are SO many cheaters out there... and different types of cheaters, too. I've vowed that I'll never let my appearance or my sex life go in my marriage, but obviously I will age, and keeping it spicy in the bedroom is easier said than done. And sex is just a piece of it; for many cheaters, MM included, it was more due to emotional disconnect than anything else. I'd like to think that the man I marry will be different, that I'll be able to tell their character beforehand, but LS makes me think... how the heck can I really know? It almost feels like a complete crap shot.

 

^^ this is a great post & i can relate to it a lot... i think many can, OWs or not. these days, honesty is the hardest to find... so it seems. it's very easy to lose faith in a marriage & good relationship, love in general.

[sweet_pea]

Poppy, 'tis true, there are playground bullies who I think are probably BS who, instead of directing their vitriol at WS, it's pretty easy to be anon here and shred someone who is a complete stranger. I actually feel sorry for those folks because they might be so emotionally retarded that this behaviour is the only way for them to release aggro.

 

My worry for myself is I may have to hire a full time private detective to follow me around and check everyone who comes in contact with me for, ... well anything.

 

 

It's a good think I'm looking for work or I would never leave the house.

 

The other thing I got was the idea that it is okay to ask myself "Is this what I want?" Because if it isn't, I can leave it right there

 

 

Thanks for your message

 

Interesting assumptions, especially that last sentence…

[truncated]

Interesting assumptions, especially that last sentence…

 

I agree with this post.

 

There are lots of people who post on here in a way that is not always "gentle" with om/ow or ws ) Assuming that they are a bs kind of speaks more about the mindset of the person making that assumption.

 

Perhaps it makes it easier to write of what they have to say if one feels it's said out of bitterness or anger.

 

There are plenty of posters on here who are former ow/om and ws and people who have never had any sort of experience with affairs in their personal life who are even tougher than any bs. I doubt they are posting out of hurt.

 

btw, there are those who give bs just as hard a time.I have seen them told , in a roundabout way, that they pushed their spouse into cheating.

[NewLeaf512]

Interesting assumptions, especially that last sentence…

Not an assumption merely an opinion, and I'm always willing to learn or be open to other insights. I'm not a therapist and have only my own experience/ perceptions to draw on. If you want to inform me please do, it's how I grow as a person.

[NewLeaf512]

I agree with this post.

 

There are lots of people who post on here in a way that is not always "gentle" with om/ow or ws ) Assuming that they are a bs kind of speaks more about the mindset of the person making that assumption.

 

Perhaps it makes it easier to write of what they have to say if one feels it's said out of bitterness or anger.

 

There are plenty of posters on here who are former ow/om and ws and people who have never had any sort of experience with affairs in their personal life who are even tougher than any bs. I doubt they are posting out of hurt.

 

btw, there are those who give bs just as hard a time.I have seen them told , in a roundabout way, that they pushed their spouse into cheating.

 

What an awful thing if someone said that a BS pushed WS into an A. That's wrong from top to bottom.

[truncated]

What an awful thing if someone said that a BS pushed WS into an A. That's wrong from top to bottom.

 

 

It happens. Take a look in the infidelity section and read a few of the threads.

 

Some even go as far as to say ( and I admit I am paraphrasing) that if a bs only looked after her man a bit better, he wouldn't have had to look elsewhere.

[Redbird Fly]

Some of the biggest bullies on this forum have actually been OWs or OWs/turned wives.

 

Most posters however, are not bullies but people who have been very hurt.

 

Given that the majority of posters are OWs or BWs, my impression is that apart from the obvious bullies, BWs can be quite angry and this is reflected in their style of posting towards OWs in particular, and OWs (especially those who haven't had a D-day) can be quite self-entitled and feel that BWs in general, are the "bad guys" in all this, and this too is reflected in posting style.

 

Both OWs and BWs have a tendency to behave like victims, and depending on which "side" you are, you might view this as justified or not.

 

Female posters who are WW, and male posters who are MM/WH get the worst treatment here on LS, while BHs are treated very similarly to BWs.

 

When people are not posters, eg the non-posting WS's/MMs and non-posting OWs/OMs, vitriol tends to be at its highest. I guess this is because we are supposed to be polite to other posters but don't necessarily have to be polite about people who are not posters.

 

Oh no, have I walked into a lion's den? I am desperate for help. I know I brought it upon myself, but this has been the most isolating experience of my life. I guess I have been both an OW and a WW

[Grapesofwrath]

Agreed, I started reading LS almost as soon as the A started so I was able to live in reality and actually knew what was coming. I wasn't at all shocked as the typical affair dance played out, even though a teeny tiny part of me had believed that he would be different. As everyone wants to believe.

 

I'm also very suspicious of others, and terrified of marriage. MM seems like such a nice guy, a great family man - that's his reputation at work. I didn't catch on to the fact that he was interested in me for months, because he "wasn't that type." LS has made me see that there are SO many cheaters out there... and different types of cheaters, too. I've vowed that I'll never let my appearance or my sex life go in my marriage, but obviously I will age, and keeping it spicy in the bedroom is easier said than done. And sex is just a piece of it; for many cheaters, MM included, it was more due to emotional disconnect than anything else. I'd like to think that the man I marry will be different, that I'll be able to tell their character beforehand, but LS makes me think... how the heck can I really know? It almost feels like a complete crap shot.

 

I started reading and posting here because I was thoroughly confused by what I was experiencing. The A I was in didn't follow the pattern of what I thought a "typical" A should be (if there is such a thing.) It blew my mind to read about "cake eaters" and other behavioral patterns that matched my situation to a tee. Helped me see that my xMM was not such a unique and special individual, but rather a representative of a type of man that exists with some frequency.

 

While it hurt at first to come to these realizations, ultimately it helps me to move on more quickly and to heal more quickly. As long as an OW or OM is laboring under the delusion that her/his A is unique and special, it's very tough to move on. It's nearly impossible to walk away from the great and powerful Oz, until one pulls back the curtain and sees a small man, manipulating the wheels and blowing smoke to maintain his control and power.

[unluckycharms]

I'm still pretty fresh out of my relationship but the one thing I've taken from it already is that you can't rely on anyone but yourself to protect your happiness and well being. It's futile to sit around and wait for good things to happen or bad things to end; if you want a relationship to change, you have to take steps to change it. There will always be painful situations and hurt feelings but we can choose how we deal with them.

 

I'd actually venture that as horrible as my experience has felt in the moment, posting here and going through it has forced me to learn a lot of incredibly important and valuable things about myself. I'm a big believer that adversity builds character and I'm trying my best to make this a lesson in strength.

 

On a separate note, reading so many different stories and perspectives here and on other sites has saddened me at how much the predominant dialogue on affairs pits women against women but that's a story for another post..

Edited August 20, 2015 by unluckycharms

[sweet_pea]

Not an assumption merely an opinion, and I'm always willing to learn or be open to other insights. I'm not a therapist and have only my own experience/ perceptions to draw on. If you want to inform me please do, it's how I grow as a person.

 

I'm just put off by you saying that a BS might be "emotionally retarded" because of how they choose to post or express themselves. For one thing, I'm not a mental health professional and even if I were, internet postings aren't really am indication of mental health. What makes someone "emotionally retarded?"

 

I think this thread is great, BTW. It is good to take all experiences as learning experiences and grow from it

[NewLeaf512]

I'm just put off by you saying that a BS might be "emotionally retarded" because of how they choose to post or express themselves. For one thing, I'm not a mental health professional and even if I were, internet postings aren't really am indication of mental health. What makes someone "emotionally retarded?"

 

I think this thread is great, BTW. It is good to take all experiences as learning experiences and grow from it

 

 

Good Point Sweetpea. that was a very poorly worded sentence on my part. Let me rephrase (and I am meant to be a halfway decent communicator although that certainly is wide of the mark upon re-reading! need to stop posting after bedtime!)

 

 

I think I'd like it not to be limited to BS. I think anyone has the right to express themselves in any way about their feelings/emotions/thoughts/opinions/ideas with the EXCEPTION of attacking someone to wound hurt them as people (attack the act, barbarism in the spoken or written word is not helpful or acceptable in my opinion) and in real life, violence of any kind, even self harm is not acceptable in my opinion, and to do so makes you seem (or are) emotionally inept and not a very nice person.

 

 

I've been told that the use of the word retarded is commonly meant in America to refer to people with learning difficulties and as a put down. I was using it in the way I learned it and have come to understand it in another country to mean "stunted" or "not fully developed" or "juvenile"

Thank you for pointing this out.

[NewLeaf512]

It happens. Take a look in the infidelity section and read a few of the threads.

 

Some even go as far as to say ( and I admit I am paraphrasing) that if a bs only looked after her man a bit better, he wouldn't have had to look elsewhere.

 

 

G-d that is shocking. Usually I can talk for hours but that leaves me dumbfounded.

[NewLeaf512]

Some of the biggest bullies on this forum have actually been OWs or OWs/turned wives.

 

Most posters however, are not bullies but people who have been very hurt.

 

Given that the majority of posters are OWs or BWs, my impression is that apart from the obvious bullies, BWs can be quite angry and this is reflected in their style of posting towards OWs in particular, and OWs (especially those who haven't had a D-day) can be quite self-entitled and feel that BWs in general, are the "bad guys" in all this, and this too is reflected in posting style.

 

Both OWs and BWs have a tendency to behave like victims, and depending on which "side" you are, you might view this as justified or not.

 

Female posters who are WW, and male posters who are MM/WH get the worst treatment here on LS, while BHs are treated very similarly to BWs.

 

When people are not posters, eg the non-posting WS's/MMs and non-posting OWs/OMs, vitriol tends to be at its highest. I guess this is because we are supposed to be polite to other posters but don't necessarily have to be polite about people who are not posters.

 

 

 

Hi Susmay. Thanks for the great post as usual. I had a some what longish post back but I accidentally deleted it so this replication wont be as good as the original. I either missed or ignored any OW/turned W threads. It's not that I don't care about these folks, it just at this moment I wouldn't care to/ don't want to even imagine such a scenario. I am sure that it works out for some and whilst I was in my EA part of my A I actually convinced myself this was feasible/right/good idea/ desirable outcome, I feel that I now know that for ME (opinion) it never could have worked, particularly after reading and interacting with some of the BW here. I've seldom felt bullied but have been attacked a few times, and as my thread is 30 pages long I didn't want to re-read it to see how the people who attacked identified, I recognised it as misdirected pain and anger and ignored it. It wasn't really about me.

As you know, you have often given a dissenting opinion and even a light rapping on the knuckles when I was spinning off into cloud cuckoo land, especially at the beginning of this new phase of life and you have been one of the tope 3 instrumental posters who helped me get my head out of my bum. Stylistically you did it gracefully even when being stern, and I thank you for that.

Frankness doesn't have to mean rudeness no matter how angry you are at your own personal situation in my opinion.

That's what I actually like best about LS, so many opinions and ideas, so many people with all kinds of feelings.

Popsicle and Poppy47 both different opinions and vastly different writing styles both very significant in me getting through this, and Hope as well.

 

 

Maybe one day I will give someone here food for thought based on what I have learned, that would be amazing.

[Got it]

Hmm, having been here longer than many, I am scratching my head at the OW/turned W being the most attacking. I can't recall any posts like that especially directed towards anther OP.

 

I can't say I have learned much from LoveShack, unfortunately when I first arrived here during my affair the atmosphere was such that it makes nowadays look like a love in. That greatly tainted my view of sharing much information and exposing any vulnerability.

 

Now I come here to try and lend an ear and offer my (un)solicited two cents. I like to read what others post, I try and stay respectful, and I guess really try and advocate/support the most for the OP to make sure they are being their own best advocate.

 

I also try and give any insight I can into being a MOP and what my experience taught me.

 

I am not sure how much more reticent I am with others in general, I have tended to be a bit withdrawn, but I will say being in an affair, the aftermath of a dday, etc. has taught me a humility about myself and about the human weakness than I knew otherwise - especially about myself. I hope I forgive more readily, denounce more reluctantly, and try and really see where the other person is coming from because I see how easy it is to hurt others.

 

While I can't say I see having an affair as one of my life's greatest works, I have learned lessons I wouldn't wanted to have missed and I am appreciative for the insight of them.

 

You are still so new on the path right now, New Leaf, dealing with a level of drama not normally seen. Be gentle with yourself, your view point of others, and know that the pendulum will swing itself back to the other side again. You are still in the storm and just now seeing the waters calming. It takes time.

[Susmay]

Hi Susmay. Thanks for the great post as usual. ...

I either missed or ignored any OW/turned W threads. ...

 

I've seldom felt bullied but have been attacked a few times, and as my thread is 30 pages long I didn't want to re-read it to see how the people who attacked identified, ..

 

As you know, you have often given a dissenting opinion and even a light rapping on the knuckles when I was spinning off into cloud cuckoo land, especially at the beginning of this new phase of life and you have been one of the tope 3 instrumental posters who helped me get my head out of my bum. Stylistically you did it gracefully even when being stern, and I thank you for that.

 

Frankness doesn't have to mean rudeness no matter how angry you are at your own personal situation in my opinion.

...

 

.

 

 

Hmm, having been here longer than many, I am scratching my head at the OW/turned W being the most attacking. I can't recall any posts like that especially directed towards anther OP.

 

I can't say I have learned much from LoveShack, unfortunately when I first arrived here during my affair the atmosphere was such that it makes nowadays look like a love in. ...

 

I try and stay respectful, and I guess really try and advocate/support the most for the OP to make sure they are being their own best advocate.

 

...

 

QUOTE]

 

Thanks NewLeaf for your words.

 

I think all of us are more sensitive to perceived bullying or attacks from the "other" side, whereas we tend to rationalise it as being appropriate when it's from someone that we imagine is more like us.

 

For that reason Got It, I'm probably more attuned to "bad behaviour" from the OW side, just as OWs probably notice it more from BWs. I'm not proposing to name names, especially as some of the worst usernames are not here any more.

 

Or, dare I suggest, under other usernames, but behaving themselves... (which of course is a good thing).

[Popsicle]

Popsicle and Poppy47 both different opinions and vastly different writing styles both very significant in me getting through this, and Hope as well.

 

Thanks, NewLeaf! I must say that you are making lighting-speed progress, even though I know you don't feel 100% yet.

[HappyAgain2014]

This forum showed me that most affairs are the same. No matter how they are different, they typically end the same.

 

That realization made me feel naive but also focused my attention on key personality traits when I started dating again.

 

I also read here that men tend to choose a lifestyle over a woman. I believe it's true and not only explains why many men stay married but also why they married in the first place.

 

This is a good place but you have to be in the right frame of mind to wade through everything to find something that really resonates with you.

[Popsicle]

This forum showed me that most affairs are the same. No matter how they are different, they typically end the same.

 

That realization made me feel naive but also focused my attention on key personality traits when I started dating again.

 

I also read here that men tend to choose a lifestyle over a woman. I believe it's true and not only explains why many men stay married but also why they married in the first place.

 

This is a good place but you have to be in the right frame of mind to wade through everything to find something that really resonates with you.

 

Well said. These are things I learned too.

[cocorico]

For any AP have you learned anything from the Forum and advice, bollocking, sympathy etc. that you have read here? I have. I also struggle with some emotions still. Did being here help you change or did you stay mostly the same? I have changed. For better and worse. The better is I will now live in reality, the worse is I am now very suspicious of people. Your thoughts if you are now or have been the OW/OM

 

I learned how heavily biased this forum is toward North Americans, and their social and cultural assumptions. I also learned that, as a society, the U.S. In particular seems far more intolerant than most of affairs, whatever the circumstances. I also learned that bullying and rudeness can be rationalised away by some people as "tough love" - even if that is not remotely what "tough love" actually means.

 

I have also made some good friends.

 

I learned a great deal from my A itself. I learned that As are not all the same, just as people are not all the same and each individual needs to look at their own situation instead of assuming that because things worked out (or didn't work out) for Jo Public, it will be the same for them. I learned that there are no reliable stats in this arena, because of the nature of the beast, and that human nature is very complex. Most human seek out connection, and some times finding connection through an A when it is missing in an M is sufficient for the WS to leave; other times the M itself provides a web of connections that are hard to break / lose, and without the A itself offering at least as many, as solid, connections, the WS will be unable to leave. If leaving is what the AP is hoping for.

 

I have also learned that people who live authentically always revert to their true nature, but that acute or chronic stress can lead to people acting out of character, doing things they would not ordinarily do (for better or worse). When you meet someone you need to assess whether or not they are in "true to character" or "out of character" situations, and judge their behaviour accordingly. Sometimes, this is who they genuinely are, and other times, not. Is that someone you can respect, and can you live with that behaviour? Which is why getting to know someone over time, seeing them in many contexts, with family, friends, colleagues, animals, children, vulnerable people, authority figures, etc all helps to get an idea of who they really are. Many people in As don't have that opportunity, because they accept some structural limitations which are not necessarily valid, which can lead to relationships with fewer dimensions than non-A relationships. Other As ignore those limitations and are as multidimensional as any other R, and offer the APs a good opportunity to see if this is a person they want to be with long term.

 

I also learned that, like any other R, both people in the A need to communicate their expectations and concerns throughout, to ensure that it works for both of them, and if it stops meeting someone's needs, this needs to be discussed and addressed before it becomes a basis for simmering resentment or dysfunction. I learned that if a relationship is happy, healthy and strong, you willingly make time for it and put in the "work" it needs. If you find yourself resenting the time or effort involved - whether that's hanging about waiting for calls / texts, or "having" to spend hours in late night chats, or having to make complex plans that meet up - then it's not meeting your needs, and isn't sustainable long term. Both people should be making time and effort freely and happily, and not just one or the other.