Boyfriend is making me choose: Him or my best friend.

August 20, 2015

Backstory: I have known my best friend (who is a woman - 28 yrs old) for about a decade (We have been best friends for about half of that time). She is a warm person with a kind heart, who has been a true friend to me throughout the majority of my time knowing her. She has always been there for me after every break up, stood by me when I needed her support and displayed true loyalty. On the flip side, she has many, many issues.. But being the nonjudgmental person I am who looks for the good in people, I excuse many of the choices she makes because that's what I've always felt that true friends do. Her poor choices: She has been job hopping/jobless (mostly jobless) for the past 2-3 years. She can't seem to get herself together as much as she tries to- Attempts to get up, falls again, repeat. I believe it has been due to bad parenting (she doesn't have "bad" parents- but I believe they did not give all 4 of their children the attention they needed), a low self esteem/lack of self confidence, not realizing her potential/being afraid of challenges and things she was unfamiliar with. She has probably quit around 6-8 jobs in the past year to a year and a half. Or, she gets hired, but makes an excuse to back out. Her family has some mental illness as well- So I take that into consideration. But the real issue is.. She has a 4 year old daughter. She is a single parent who still lives under her parent's roof. She often uses time that could be used wisely to spend with multiple guys (some of which she sleeps with- And brings her daughter around most of them). She is trying to get over her ex (who she broke up with) and realized she wants him back. She is a good mom.. She just does not realize that some of the decisions she makes puts her child in bad situations. She has even smoked weed occasionally (not recently- as far as I know) and I could not understand why someone would do that when attempting to look for a job that could possibly drug test. Despite all of the above, she does have a very good heart but obviously not a very good head on her shoulders...

Over time, we've grown apart a bit because it's been difficult for me to continue to support someone who consistently makes the same mistakes, never seems to learn from them and who involves a child in many of them. I hang out with her about once or twice a month and we text just about every day. It is not the same because I've begun to lose respect for her - Yet, I still hold on because she is still a good friend.

Now.. My boyfriend and I have been together for 2.5 years now. They did not like each other much from the beginning. After a while, she became resentful that I spent the majority of my free time with him (keep in mind that I was in school, had a job, family and things I needed to get done). Eventually, she got fed up and we stopped talking for 6 months. She made unnecessary comments and told me I never made time for her - Which I responded with "That's because you haven't been the kind of person I go out of my way to make time for." After 6 months, she got drunk one night and texted me vile things - My boyfriend was next to me when this happened, took my phone from me and texted her back with vile comments. Ever since then, hatred between them was present. He does not believe she is a true friend to say what she had said to me ("I hope you die") and couldn't help but to stick up for me. We made up and became friends again. Other reasons why he does not like her: She constantly tells me I should leave him/talks badly about him (not all the time) and he's caught onto it. Furthermore, about a year ago I went to her friend's house for a board game night and this friend was a guy who happened to find me attractive. He firmly believes she brought me there with the intent to disrespect him - By trying to get me away from him and go for someone else.

She has been begging me to go out on Friday night in celebration of her birthday - Tons of people are going (men and women) and it looks like they will be going to hookah bars (most likely regular bars too) and to play billiards. My boyfriend is tired of her disrespect (he says she knows he wouldn't approve of me going but asks me anyway). He doesn't believe women in relationships have any place going clubbing or bar hopping, which I completely understand.

So- He gave me the ultimatum today after that invitation. It's either him or her. He can't be with someone whose best friend has screwed up time after time, has low morals, puts their child in harm's way occasionally, hates him and disrespects him. I told him that I have the ability to have someone in my life without it affecting the way I live mine - My choices have been opposite of hers, I have morals, make better decisions and have more self respect. I've tried expressing that although she and I aren't on the same path in life, I can have someone in my life (although not as closely anymore) if they have a good heart and have been a true friend. He disagrees and lives by the "you are who you surround yourself with" mentality.

Is he wrong to give me this ultimatum? Is this controlling? Or is it him trying to open up my eyes to see that moving on from people who don't have similar goals and morals as me is for the best? He is someone I could see myself spending my life with and I love him deeply. I am torn and lost. I feel no matter what I do, I will feel empty.

August 20, 2015

Well, I personally believe if you're issuing ultimatums then you've already lost. But this is kinda of different. Your friend sounds fairly toxic. You say that she basically hates your BF and wants him out of your life. Aside from their feud does she have a point? Does he treat you poorly? You seem to indicate that's not the case. If not, then I kind of have to say your BF is justified by issuing an ultimatum. What's the alternative? Essentially allow this "wormtongue" to sabotage his relationship with you?

As an aside: if this really is as toxic as you make it sound, he really shouldn't have had to issue the ultimatum. You should have dealt with this problem proactively - one way or another.

August 20, 2015

On principle when somebody tries to get me to make a choice between them & somebody else, I always pick the person who is not trying to get me to chose.

I'd try to talk to you BF. Agree he doesn't have to spend time with your BFF but make it clear that you won't be bullied by him to drop her.

August 20, 2015

"After a while, she became resentful that I spent the majority of my free time with him (keep in mind that I was in school, had a job, family and things I needed to get done). Eventually, she got fed up and we stopped talking for 6 months. She made unnecessary comments and told me I never made time for her - Which I responded with "That's because you haven't been the kind of person I go out of my way to make time for." After 6 months, she got drunk one night and texted me vile things - My boyfriend was next to me when this happened, took my phone from me and texted her back with vile comments."

I understand that it is your right to have a friend and that the relationship with your best friend began before you are with your bf. However, you are letting your best friend disrespecting your bf.

I think you best friend has serious issues, she is even jealous of you being with your bf. She wants you to spend more time with her than him. This is not normal. She should be happy for your that you are in relationship. Instead, she is encouraging you to leave him, and is doing what is possible to ruin your relationship. And she is going to win. Who is going to lose? You are! If I was your boyfriend I would do the same thing. If you love your boyfriend , the person who needs an ultimatum is your best friend. You should ask your best friend to respect your relationship, and give her an ultimatum if she wants to remain your friend.

August 22, 2015

I would have a difficult time ever being with someone who gave me an ultimatum like that. You're just going to have to decide what's best for you.

August 23, 2015

The ultimatum does set a bad tone. This could be the start of controlling behavior.

I would try and compromise. Go to the party - maybe take your boyfriend with you and after her birthday, start easing yourself away from her.

She is toxic. She isn't doing what needs to be done. You probably can't help her. This has to come from within. When she is ready. If she doesn't make a change, 10 years from now you will be listening to the exact same conversations from her.

Again, she sounds toxic and your boyfriend doesn't. Do you really want the drama that is she in your life?

August 23, 2015

On principle when somebody tries to get me to make a choice between them & somebody else, I always pick the person who is not trying to get me to chose.

I'd try to talk to you BF. Agree he doesn't have to spend time with your BFF but make it clear that you won't be bullied by him to drop her.

But what about the disrespect that the friend is showing the relationship that OP is in? Does that not merit some weight?

August 23, 2015

Yes, your bf giving you an ultimatum is kinda sucky but lemme see if I can spin this a different way...

When we date, we are observing the person to see if they are a "match" (unless we are just looking for companionship) AND, the company they keep is reflective of them and their character (i.e. "birds of a feather.....")

Your bf, at least, expressed to you his concerns about who you keep company with - cuz, I don't see him trying to control you and/or change you...but, like you, he probably sees potential with you and has a concern about who you keep as friends and before he even considers abandoning ship, he's informing you of his concerns and giving you a chance to address it.

So, I think he's doing the right thing here...cuz in RLs, stuff is gonna come up. And, if our SO is exhibiting behavior that ain't gonna work for us, we have a right to let them know.

Also, in dating and RLs - believe it or not - your partner is supposed to "elevate" you....not drag you down. So, I believe your bf is "elevating" you here, cuz the dissing of this louse of a "friend" you have is long overdue.

But, I feel your pain...Believe it or not, today I was actually telling my sis-in-law about the dumping of some "friends" I did lately and yes, it is hard cuz you do share some good times with them - but in a way the poopy stuff they do overshadows the good stuff. I mean, they say Hitler was good to his dog, but still, he burnt people in ovens...

August 23, 2015

My boyfriend's best childhood friend is completely out of control--binging on drugs, crashing cars, and also a closeted homosexual obsessed with my boyfriend.

I can't tell my boyfriend to dump his friends. What I can tell him are my concerns, and what constitutes a dealbreaker in relationships for me.

I can't change the friend. I can observe my boyfriend's behavior. I don't care if my boyfriend parties. I care a lot if the friend pushes him way over the boundaries of partying safely and close to an overdose.

I need my boyfriend to respect his body and not endanger himself. That's a dealbreaker. I need to know he is strong enough to say no to excessive quantities of anything (e.g. drinking vs. drinking an entire fifth of vodka). I sorted that one out with him loud and clear after the friend was home to visit for a few weeks. (*I didn't yell at him... I cried when I explained how terrible I would feel if I found him dead or in the hospital.)

As long as you're acting with respect for yourself and respect toward your relationship, I don't think it's any significant other's place to say who is your friend and who isn't. If your boyfriend is willing to work with you on the situation, find out what bothers him (for me, it's the friend's recklessness with drugs) and work together to set some boundaries. Not everyone is perfect, no friend is perfect.

I'm okay with my boyfriend as long as I know he won't end up in the ER, or arrested because the friend did something dumb while boyfriend was with him.

Some of my friends drink too much, or cheat on their men. If we're drinking at my place, I know when to flag certain people (I can't have more than a drink or two, anyway). I don't go out to bars, I have no interest. My boyfriend is always with me if I'm doing something social and other guys are present. I keep my boundaries clear and my boyfriend trusts me.

If your boyfriend isn't willing to work with you at all... that's tough. Try seeing if you can truly listen to each other's concerns, and if you can come up with something together. Maybe seeing the friend in a certain setting, avoiding a certain type of situation, etc. Maybe he just needs you to make it clear to him you won't engage in XYZ.

Keep us posted.

August 24, 2015

There is only one main big issue here.

She is against him in a very open rude manner.

I wouldn't like my partner to be with someone who hates me.

Because if I love a person I can't be spending nice time with another person who hates the one I love. It's very simple.

She either has to stop showing whatever sings of her hatred towards him or just cut her off. That's ridiculous.

Nothing else matter to him I believe, as long as she is not influencing in a bad way, you should be fine keeping contact with her. But her being so openly against your partner? That's offending to you as well, she is offending your choice of partner. That's a problem on so many levels.

He has absolute right in this situation to ask you to choose, because he can't handle you being with a person who hates him, this means you don't respect him.

August 24, 2015

Your bf may think he has your best interests at heart, but trying to control you in this way is a red flag.

I'd go to her party, and let things fall out afterwards as they may. YOU do not have to choose. HE issued the ultimatum, so he is the one who has to decide what to do if you don't go along with it. You keep your integrity and friend - at least until you decide that she is not worth keeping on your own. And you may keep your bf, although someone who issues ultimatums of this type may not be worth keeping.

Edit: Yes, he has the right to ASK that you break off this friendship, but making it an either/or ultimatum is manipulative, and he does not have that right.

Edited August 24, 2015 by central

August 24, 2015

she got drunk one night and texted me vile things - My boyfriend was next to me when this happened, took my phone from me and texted her back with vile comments. Ever since then, hatred between them was present. He does not believe she is a true friend to say what she had said to me ("I hope you die")...

Sounds like adolescents.

We made up and became friends again.

Why?

Other reasons why he does not like her: She constantly tells me I should leave him/talks badly about him (not all the time) and he's caught onto it. Furthermore, about a year ago I went to her friend's house for a board game night and this friend was a guy who happened to find me attractive. He firmly believes she brought me there with the intent to disrespect him - By trying to get me away from him and go for someone else.

I'm not fond of ultimatums, but I also don't think you should've let this situation get to the point where he felt it necessary. Once it got to the point of hatred and open hostility between the two of them, there's no way you are going to be able to split the difference. In a sense you are disrespecting him by you actions... his perception is that this lousy excuse for a friend is more important than your relationship. She (the "friend") put you and him in this position and I'm sure she's enjoying the power you're giving her. You're leaving him powerless.

That doesn't mean his perceptions are true, but how he feels is his reality and you are essentially saying to him that if push comes to shove, she is more important than he is. I can see why he's not happy.

Right or wrong, if you go out partying with her you are choosing her over him. He is not going to see this as a moral/ethical dilemma––he sees it as a power struggle and you're taking the other side.

If you value your relationship, you're going to have to make the decision based on how he actually feels, not some principle you think is your right. On the other hand, if you're ready to end it with him, disregarding his feelings and making him feel disrespected and secondary to a lousy excuse for a friend is a sure-fire way to do it.

August 24, 2015

If you value your relationship, you're going to have to make the decision based on how he actually feels, not some principle you think is your right.

Ah, so SHE has to respect his feelings, but he does not have to respect hers?

Why is that? And why don't principles matter? Freedom and self-determination are principles that many people are even willing to die to preserve.

August 24, 2015

After 6 months, she got drunk one night and texted me vile things - My boyfriend was next to me when this happened, took my phone from me and texted her back with vile comments.

Your boyfriend is a nosy little tool.

Regardless of the state of your relationship with your friend or her anger that night, your idiot boyfriend had no right whatsoever to stick his damned nose where it doesn't belong and start acting like a nasty little twit texting her back. Yeah, he's SO much better than her. What a joke.

Your friend may be a lot of bad things and not the most put-together woman on the planet, but it isn't your boyfriend's place to decide who your friends are.

I'd boot his ass out the door quicker than I'd boot hers.

The chances are pretty damned high that long after he's nothing more than a memory, she'll still be around.

Don't ever let ANY so-called man tell you who your friends should be. Anyone foolish enough to entertain a childish ultimatum like this is nothing more than a sock puppet willing to do someone else's bidding.

Don't be that sock puppet.

August 24, 2015

Your boyfriend is a nosy little tool.

Regardless of the state of your relationship with your friend or her anger that night, your idiot boyfriend had no right whatsoever to stick his damned nose where it doesn't belong and start acting like a nasty little twit texting her back. Yeah, he's SO much better than her. What a joke.

Your friend may be a lot of bad things and not the most put-together woman on the planet, but it isn't your boyfriend's place to decide who your friends are.

I'd boot his ass out the door quicker than I'd boot hers.

The chances are pretty damned high that long after he's nothing more than a memory, she'll still be around.

Don't ever let ANY so-called man tell you who your friends should be. Anyone foolish enough to entertain a childish ultimatum like this is nothing more than a sock puppet willing to do someone else's bidding.

Don't be that sock puppet.

Ok Lois......or, water seeks it's own level. One or the other is simply not compatible with the current lifestyle of the OP. Which one? In the bendy road of relationships and life, these choices present themselves, yes?

August 24, 2015

Ah, so SHE has to respect his feelings, but he does not have to respect hers?

Why is that? And why don't principles matter? Freedom and self-determination are principles that many people are even willing to die to preserve.

This is situational, not absolute. In the context of this issue, and in this relationship, if she chooses to stand on pure principle and ignore his strong feelings, he's ready to walk. I can't say that I'd blame him... even though I do disagree with the issuance of an ultimatum.

Here's how I weight the two:

There is heated conflict between the friend and the boyfriend. The friend is known to run hot and cold, be somewhat irresponsible, and send vile texts when she's drunk and angry. She is overtly denigrating the boyfriend and trying to break them up. She is [presumably] introducing the OP to attractive guy who want to get into her pants, probably where there is lots of alcohol flowing and the boyfriend is not welcome... again, in an attempt to undermine the relationship. She is pressuring OP to attend this night of smoking, drinking and bar hopping

The boyfriend, as far as we know hasn't done much of anything wrong beyond responding to the vile texts with vile texts and issuing the ultimatum, which isn't necessarily wrong (ultimatums can be appropriate depending on circumstances). I also assume that OP values her relationship more than the friendship, but that isn't really established.

If OP wants to stand on the principle that she can do whatever the hell she wants to do, then of course she's free to do so... but there will be consequences. Winning some philosophical argument about right or wrong, free will, etc., is not going to change the way the boyfriend feels.

Generally speaking, if you're in a relationship then you need to respect your SOs feelings even if you don't necessarily agree, in principle, that they are rational or right or whatever (there are limits, of course). We could slice and dice it to death and not all agree whether the boyfriend is justified... but his feelings are his reality on this, and if she chooses to go out partying with this friend who disrespects her relationship so intensely and may even be trying to tempt her to cheat, then she's disrespecting the relationship and the boyfriend.

Who we decide is on higher ground here won't make a bit of difference.

August 24, 2015

Yes, it is controling and he is using an ultimatum to bend you to his will. With that said, your friend is toxic and a life drain. Both need to go as they are selfish and immature. Life is complicated without all the drama so try to limit your dramatics to acquaintances and weird aunts. You were already distancing yourself so his ultimatum was overkill.

Dump both and find better. They both have issues. Love isn't about their ego. You get what you settle for so don't settle for either of these drama queens.

Move on from both,

Grumps

August 25, 2015

I'm not a fan of ultimatums, and that does sound rather controlling of him, but... in what way does this woman even deserve the title of 'best friend'? Real friends don't do what she has done to you. Why are you still 'best friends' with her?

I'd dump the 'friend' but would also let the bf know that it wasn't because of what he said, and that I don't agree with ultimatums so he should refrain from doing so again. If he tries to pull the ultimatum stunt on you again with something else in the future, I'd bail.

August 25, 2015

Yes, it is controling and he is using an ultimatum to bend you to his will. With that said, your friend is toxic and a life drain. Both need to go as they are selfish and immature. Life is complicated without all the drama so try to limit your dramatics to acquaintances and weird aunts. You were already distancing yourself so his ultimatum was overkill.
Dump both and find better. They both have issues. Love isn't about their ego. You get what you settle for so don't settle for either of these drama queens.
Move on from both,
Grumps

I agree with this. I think they are both bad eggs and have violated your respective relationships with them on numerous occasions. So I would ask why the people closest to you are boundary pushers, overbearing, and need you to bend to their will (both have exhibited passive and active examples of this)? Why are you seeking these types of people out. I had one friend that I thought was unfairly disrespectful to my husband (then boyfriend) and after not listening to me request she knock it off I ended the friendship. There were other issues where the disrespect coupled with the other issues made it a no brainer.

My husband has a not close friend that I don't like. I have made it clear that I want nothing to do with him. They still talk but it is not around me (long distance). I think he is a poor character but I am not going to tell my husband who he can be friends with.

Caveat as long as they are not a threat/enemy to the marriage.

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Boyfriend is making me choose: Him or my best friend.

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