aliveagain Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 BDT, she is now taking you seriously. You've kept your word and your refusing to play Mr. Backup. You've exposed her to family and friends, the same friends she put you down verbally to now know why and will make up their own opinions as to her actions. The reality of a major lifestyle change is also hitting her, continue to limit the funds she has access to, a job is in her future. The integrity and respect she trashed with her cheating you just took back a hundred fold. Make sure your children are ok, some counselling may be required to help them through as they won't understand what's going on. You have limited her choices and if she really want's the marriage she will have to make the permanent changes required which includes the truth that you will need to verify with a polygraph. You just got her attention for the first time in years, decide if she is what you want. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 BDT, she is now taking you seriously. You've kept your word and your refusing to play Mr. Backup. You've exposed her to family and friends, the same friends she put you down verbally to now know why and will make up their own opinions as to her actions. The reality of a major lifestyle change is also hitting her, continue to limit the funds she has access to, a job is in her future. The integrity and respect she trashed with her cheating you just took back a hundred fold. Make sure your children are ok, some counselling may be required to help them through as they won't understand what's going on. You have limited her choices and if she really want's the marriage she will have to make the permanent changes required which includes the truth that you will need to verify with a polygraph. You just got her attention for the first time in years, decide if she is what you want. Alive, Me leaving was long overdue it is hitting her hard I seriously doubt she will find someone like me again. I agree with Mz Pixie that she doesn't respect me. That is still tough to take. I DO respect myself and I truly think that I will not have much of a problem finding an upgrade for a mate. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sometimes when you give too much to someone they see that as weakness , I am a lot of things but weak isn't one of them. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
qubist Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sometimes when you give too much to someone they see that as weakness , I am a lot of things but weak isn't one of them. Bigdaddyt: Congratulations,you have freed your self from a bad situation, which is a marriage that wasn't built on one of the most important pillar : RESPECT. I don't want to sound like i'm defending her but she just acted the way you had allowed her too. now you have done the right thing. Please realize that you are not fully out of this emotional mess, do not make any radical decision yet, I read that you want to purchase a house, you should consult your lawyer first. do not rush to anything yet. take a break and enjoy your free self. Man I,m proud of you, if you ever come to the Dc area holler at me I would like to meet you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
singer23 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 What exactly was she saying in the VAR ? And imagine if you actually VARed her for a few days during her affair. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Rent until the D is finalized. Go rent a place with a fantastic view! Select a place that's comforting and inviting to call home while you get things in place for your future. This gives you two things: time to look around for a nice place to buy and a space to settle into while you get the D finished up. Make it a place you want to go home to. A view will always lift your spirits. Choose a place that is light and bright! Edited September 7, 2015 by S2B 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SpokenFor Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Hey, BDT, you are doing great and have been getting some great advice here! Like some others, I'd like to understand more about how she chose to cut you down to her friends at a point where she knew at least she was in trouble -- how she chose to attack you with her friends (and how they responded) can show what she is most insecure about in the relationship. Having her father be a strong paterfamilias is useful to you right now, and I am glad you are working with that. I might suggest that you send them both a note or,if her father doesn't do email, sit them down together, and say something like this: "WW, I have given you everything I can, and treated you with respect, and you have in return believed this was due to me being a weak person. I refuse to be in a marriage with someone who confuses kindness, love and respect with weakness. By only admitting in your timeline to things you think I know about, you show that you also see me as naive or stupid and thus easily misled. I know more than you think, and I am neither naive nor stupid. Again, you mistake the trust and love I gave you as weakness. Now, I see hysterics and a lot of noise from you, but you still desire to belittle me, to mislead me, to cover up and get what you want in this marriage. I don't see any true honesty or love for me, nor do I see any desire to change yourself or to find out how to make me happy in the marriage. You continue to see all of this by how it affects you, and you try to find a way to get back to how you had it when you decided to betray me, verbally to your friends and physically to your lover or lovers. I am telling you this in front of your father because I respect him and your family, and because I have always valued this larger family I was part of in our marriage. Since at this point my decision is to leave the family and find a way to co-parent our children until they are grown, I want him and the rest of your family to understand what you have done and become and why I feel there is not another choice. If you want to change, it will take time, and right now I don't even see a true desire for change. I will move ahead with the divorce process, and you will have to come to me with complete honesty and openness and show me reasons to believe in your change. In the meantime, I will move forward with my life and make my decisions in the best interests of myself and my children." It would be a tough email, tougher conversation, but I really think something very declarative like that can draw a clean line and do it in such a way that she has to cut the crap if she wants to start to win you back. Just my thoughts, and like I said you have made great decisions so far. Best wishes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TX-SC Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Hey, BDT, you are doing great and have been getting some great advice here! Like some others, I'd like to understand more about how she chose to cut you down to her friends at a point where she knew at least she was in trouble -- how she chose to attack you with her friends (and how they responded) can show what she is most insecure about in the relationship. Having her father be a strong paterfamilias is useful to you right now, and I am glad you are working with that. I might suggest that you send them both a note or,if her father doesn't do email, sit them down together, and say something like this: "WW, I have given you everything I can, and treated you with respect, and you have in return believed this was due to me being a weak person. I refuse to be in a marriage with someone who confuses kindness, love and respect with weakness. By only admitting in your timeline to things you think I know about, you show that you also see me as naive or stupid and thus easily misled. I know more than you think, and I am neither naive nor stupid. Again, you mistake the trust and love I gave you as weakness. Now, I see hysterics and a lot of noise from you, but you still desire to belittle me, to mislead me, to cover up and get what you want in this marriage. I don't see any true honesty or love for me, nor do I see any desire to change yourself or to find out how to make me happy in the marriage. You continue to see all of this by how it affects you, and you try to find a way to get back to how you had it when you decided to betray me, verbally to your friends and physically to your lover or lovers. I am telling you this in front of your father because I respect him and your family, and because I have always valued this larger family I was part of in our marriage. Since at this point my decision is to leave the family and find a way to co-parent our children until they are grown, I want him and the rest of your family to understand what you have done and become and why I feel there is not another choice. If you want to change, it will take time, and right now I don't even see a true desire for change. I will move ahead with the divorce process, and you will have to come to me with complete honesty and openness and show me reasons to believe in your change. In the meantime, I will move forward with my life and make my decisions in the best interests of myself and my children." It would be a tough email, tougher conversation, but I really think something very declarative like that can draw a clean line and do it in such a way that she has to cut the crap if she wants to start to win you back. Just my thoughts, and like I said you have made great decisions so far. Best wishes. Well stated. I like this idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Stay strong man. You have time to see how things play out and take advantage of this new found time to also better yourself. There is nothing wrong with getting out and making new friends or even taking a vacation for yourself. Good for you for showing her real consequences. C 3 Link to post Share on other sites
eric1 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Well if she wants to say you were both cheating then, while her dad is there, suggest that you both take a poly and receive the same questions. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I followed your story and I am really impressed for how you handled the situation. Emotionlessly where needed, strategically, with respect to everyone involved and dignity. It is sad to see two people who have gone though so much together becoming opponents but I guess this is the sad reality. I do hope you find your inner peace and get over the pain soon. I know this is not the time for whys, but just throwing it out there; it'd be interesting for you to find out why you allowed this woman to manipulate you in a way like this. Why you didnt have the strength to stop the way things were going and change them. All this can become a valuable lesson not only for your next relationships but in order for you to know yourself better. Good luck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
m.snow Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) MrBojangles, her timeline was incomplete and only admitted to what I knew about her cheating . That plus the VAR conversation with her girlfriends made me realize that I was the only person working on my marriage . I did move out yesterday and she has been blowing up my phone. I continued the exposure yesterday to include my family and our mutual friends. I expect some kind of drama from her this week, but she now realizes that I am serious. Problem now is I don't think that I would take her back. OMG! I say again do not move out of the marital home unless you want to lose on a divorce case. Talk to your attorney regarding moving out of the marital home. ASAP. see if it has repercussion in a divorce case in your state. the court will see your actions as abandoning your family. ie specifically your children. many cases the spouse who leaves may not be awarded 50/50 custody which is the best "father can hope for" leaving the marital home may affect future child support or spousal support. please talk to your attorney about this. you have decided to divorce you must be methodical in this approach. you must keep your divorce plans in the wraps. communicate with your attorney. your goal is to leave this marriage with minimal financial loss. Edited September 8, 2015 by m.snow 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 OMG! I say again do not move out of the marital home unless you want to lose on a divorce case. Talk to your attorney regarding moving out of the marital home. ASAP. see if it has repercussion in a divorce case in your state. the court will see your actions as abandoning your family. ie specifically your children. many cases the spouse who leaves may not be awarded 50/50 custody which is the best "father can hope for" leaving the marital home may affect future child support or spousal support. please talk to your attorney about this. you have decided to divorce you must be methodical in this approach. you must keep your divorce plans in the wraps. communicate with your attorney. your goal is to leave this marriage with minimal financial loss. Please listen to this!!!!! Seen it time and time again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) All: I wanted to thank you all for your continued supportand advice. I wanted to give a short update and will try to answer everyone individually as I can. I am still living in a short term residence until Ifigure out what I am going to do (living arrangements) and I am still scheduledto meet with my attorney tomorrow to start the process. I did spend all day yesterday with my boys and I was on the phone constantly speaking with friends and relatives about my situation. Everyone loves bad news. I tried to be asbrief as possible with everyone and asked that they respect our privacy duringthis difficult time WW is having a meltdown and I believe that she is realizing that I am truly done with her BS and infidelity. I am at fault for notsquashing this years ago, but at the time I didn’t see it and I didn’t have thetools to deal with it. The VAR with my WW girlfriends was basically a bash BDT session where the WW was listening to her girlfriends about how great the other girl’s husbands were and all that they did for them My WW was always putting in how I was emotionally lazy and clueless about all that goes on around me. She continued to say that I am so much into my personal appearance that I never notice her and that I let the children walk all over me and givethem anything that they want. She basically said that she doesn’t respect me becauseof all of this. She talked about all of quirks and mannerisms that she hates and told the girls that I had a lot of the girlfriend’s told her that she shouldn’t put up with my behavior, (I fully agree with them). These are the same girlfriends that when we are at a function walk by me and run their handsdown my back or lean across the table and place their hands on my legs. These girlfriendshave absolutely no boundaries. It just seemed that my WW has a tremendous amountof anger towards me still and blames me for everything that has happened in ourmarriage that is bad. She never could see the positives. I am always the positiveone always seeing the good in everything and always encouraging to her and ourfamily and friends. My FIL wants to meet today and talk to me; I advised him that I could meet him after work this evening at a local restaurant. I believe thathe will try to get me to give my WW another chance. I plan to be polite andrespectful, but stick to my plan. I will tell him that I love and respect himand his family. He was the Father that I never had, but I can no longertolerate my WW behavior. Honestly the cheating is bad, but the ultimate disrespect isthat she has twisted the truth and lied to cover her own infidelity and went onthe attack to continue her infidelity. WW made me feel like there was somethingwrong with me for suspecting her then attacked me telling me that is was myentire fault for her cheating. She is never responsible for any bad behavior. Iprobably could get over the cheating if I knew that it was truly over and shewas all in on trying to save us and did whatever it took to make this right. Edited September 8, 2015 by Bigdaddyt 7 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 If your such a bad husband and the cause of her disrespect and infidelity, why does she want a second chance with you so badly? Listen to your lawyer, memorize the 180 and make it your daily mantra, be there for your children. She knows what you need to save this relationship and if she'd rather have others interfere on her behalf rather than doing the work required, well, nothing is ever going to change. She needs to understand that. BDT, this is about saving your life and that of your children, hopefully she's not too far gone to save. Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Your not alone in the thoughts of leaving sooner or at the very least putting your foot down. We all have gone through this. Do not beat yourself up over it. Your learning everyday. Your doing the right thing now. Imagine all those people out there that are not even where your at yet and there spouses are still cheating on them. They are still abusing them mentally and physically. Your on the other side of this now. You are doing great. Stay strong and respect yourself. That is really what it comes down in the end as. Living with the choices you have made and moving forward in a healthy direction. She will have to learn in her own time. I seriously doubt she will work on herself any time soon. Take every day one at a time and make the most of it. Years from now your going to look back on these days as some of the hardest in your life but your also going to look back on them as the days you stood up for yourself. Good for you. C 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 First I want to say, don't believe everything you are hearing on the VAR. The reason being, your WW is trying to convince both her friends and herself that you are the problem. In doing so she will say things she doesn't really feel or believe. This in no way means you should change your decision (I personally believe you did the right thing). If and when she is worthy of a second chance you will feel it and see it in her actions. Also, I think its important that you reflect and evaluate if her complaints are valid ones. This shouldn't be dependant upon the status of the marriage moving forward. I know in my situation I was totally blind to my short comings in the marriage, as are many BH's. Lastly, I believe (again no matter the direction the marriage goes) that MC is a must at some point before its final. Either for co-parenting or with help with being able to communicate openly. Like the saying goes "he story vs her story means the truth is in the middle" Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 If your such a bad husband and the cause of her disrespect and infidelity, why does she want a second chance with you so badly? Listen to your lawyer, memorize the 180 and make it your daily mantra, be there for your children. She knows what you need to save this relationship and if she'd rather have others interfere on her behalf rather than doing the work required, well, nothing is ever going to change. She needs to understand that. BDT, this is about saving your life and that of your children, hopefully she's not too far gone to save. Alive, I am doing my best to be strong and be a good father at the same time. I know that I wasn't a bad husband or father and hearing her dog me was just another nail in the coffin for our marriage . I am doing the 180 but I am getting a lot of pressure from both family and friends to give WW a second chance. Right now that isn't a option for me, I am too hurt and betrayed to consider this. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 First I want to say, don't believe everything you are hearing on the VAR. The reason being, your WW is trying to convince both her friends and herself that you are the problem. In doing so she will say things she doesn't really feel or believe. This in no way means you should change your decision (I personally believe you did the right thing). If and when she is worthy of a second chance you will feel it and see it in her actions. Also, I think its important that you reflect and evaluate if her complaints are valid ones. This shouldn't be dependant upon the status of the marriage moving forward. I know in my situation I was totally blind to my short comings in the marriage, as are many BH's. Lastly, I believe (again no matter the direction the marriage goes) that MC is a must at some point before its final. Either for co-parenting or with help with being able to communicate openly. Like the saying goes "he story vs her story means the truth is in the middle" DKT3, I know that I am far from perfect and I have always been my biggest critic, but I wasn't a monster by any stretch of the imagination. It was difficult to hear my wife make me out to be some self centered egotistical jerk. I have learned from my mistakes and some of her points are valid. I will probably try joint counseling so that we can coparent together. I am not ruling out the possibility of a possible R in the future , but it is highly unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hey, BDT, you are doing great and have been getting some great advice here! Like some others, I'd like to understand more about how she chose to cut you down to her friends at a point where she knew at least she was in trouble -- how she chose to attack you with her friends (and how they responded) can show what she is most insecure about in the relationship. Having her father be a strong paterfamilias is useful to you right now, and I am glad you are working with that. I might suggest that you send them both a note or,if her father doesn't do email, sit them down together, and say something like this: "WW, I have given you everything I can, and treated you with respect, and you have in return believed this was due to me being a weak person. I refuse to be in a marriage with someone who confuses kindness, love and respect with weakness. By only admitting in your timeline to things you think I know about, you show that you also see me as naive or stupid and thus easily misled. I know more than you think, and I am neither naive nor stupid. Again, you mistake the trust and love I gave you as weakness. Now, I see hysterics and a lot of noise from you, but you still desire to belittle me, to mislead me, to cover up and get what you want in this marriage. I don't see any true honesty or love for me, nor do I see any desire to change yourself or to find out how to make me happy in the marriage. You continue to see all of this by how it affects you, and you try to find a way to get back to how you had it when you decided to betray me, verbally to your friends and physically to your lover or lovers. I am telling you this in front of your father because I respect him and your family, and because I have always valued this larger family I was part of in our marriage. Since at this point my decision is to leave the family and find a way to co-parent our children until they are grown, I want him and the rest of your family to understand what you have done and become and why I feel there is not another choice. If you want to change, it will take time, and right now I don't even see a true desire for change. I will move ahead with the divorce process, and you will have to come to me with complete honesty and openness and show me reasons to believe in your change. In the meantime, I will move forward with my life and make my decisions in the best interests of myself and my children." It would be a tough email, tougher conversation, but I really think something very declarative like that can draw a clean line and do it in such a way that she has to cut the crap if she wants to start to win you back. Just my thoughts, and like I said you have made great decisions so far. Best wishes. Spoken for, I had to comment on your post because it was so well written and thought out I have pretty much said these things to my WW and FIL. I just didn't articulate it very well on my posts. I like to address tough conversations face to face and will speak with FIL man to man. Link to post Share on other sites
World's.Edge Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Bigdaddyt what you've heard and what you're experiencing with your wife is character assassination, blame-shifting and the rewriting of your marital history. It is extremely common with infidelity, and you can research it if you want. To summarize: basically, everything wrong in the marriage and in your wife's life is because of you and you're the worst person ever!! In fact, everything wrong in the world is your fault. The wars and conflict in the world, poverty, world hunger, the thinning of the Ozone Layer, oil spills.. all you. No one is perfect and we all have our issues but these have to do with her. You shouldn't internalize what she said and accept these as truths about you. These are her disfunction. Now that you've made the decision to divorce your wife, be prepared for anything by her to have that not happen. It could range from subtle actions and behaviour, to more overt behaviour and forms of manipulation, such as her trying to sleep with you, using your children, involving family and friends, a sudden illness or health scare episode (may even require hospitalization) or other desperate measures. Stay the course and don't lose your resolve. Edited September 8, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qubist Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Bigdaddyt: you knew this wasn't supposed to be easy so keep it up you will be OK. Guys here are giving you good advices the only think I would add is to remind you to take it easy on yourself and not rush to any major decision yet. I also would like to remind you of 4 points before your meeting with FIL 1- I know you already leased a new space but please stay put at your house unless you hear otherwise from your lawyer. I know you are trying to avoid her but I also know that you are strong enough to handle the situation despite her influence 2- it is good that you are concidering all you options including a possible R, but you should be firm with the D process regardless, your W needs to realize that you are done with the old ways of spoiling her 3- when you talk to her or her father make sure they understands that her lack of respect is as fatale as her infidelity do not let her cheating be the only issue. 4 I went back and read all your posts and in the very first one you stated something very important that somehow we never discuss here. This was before she admitted her A. You said in the first post that she threathened to leave you after she finished her school and get her degree because she is not happy with you. This is very important this was her feeling during the A. Make sure you tell her and her dad you need assurance that her reasons for the R is not the fact that she is still dependent on you financially. I'm very confident that you will make the decisions good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Bigdaddyt: you knew this wasn't supposed to be easy so keep it up you will be OK. Guys here are giving you good advices the only think I would add is to remind you to take it easy on yourself and not rush to any major decision yet. I also would like to remind you of 4 points before your meeting with FIL 1- I know you already leased a new space but please stay put at your house unless you hear otherwise from your lawyer. I know you are trying to avoid her but I also know that you are strong enough to handle the situation despite her influence 2- it is good that you are concidering all you options including a possible R, but you should be firm with the D process regardless, your W needs to realize that you are done with the old ways of spoiling her 3- when you talk to her or her father make sure they understands that her lack of respect is as fatale as her infidelity do not let her cheating be the only issue. 4 I went back and read all your posts and in the very first one you stated something very important that somehow we never discuss here. This was before she admitted her A. You said in the first post that she threathened to leave you after she finished her school and get her degree because she is not happy with you. This is very important this was her feeling during the A. Make sure you tell her and her dad you need assurance that her reasons for the R is not the fact that she is still dependent on you financially. I'm very confident that you will make the decisions good luck Qubist, I agree with your assessment of my posts she did say she wanted out and was quite the B about it. I look back at it now and her fantasy is gone and cruel reality has replaced it. I was reading Redbirds posts and I am amazed how all WW think a lot alike, I guess it is human nature. I will move forward with D, my WW will have to convince me to R if she wants that. I am done putting in the effort. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
qubist Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Qubist, I agree with your assessment of my posts she did say she wanted out and was quite the B about it. I look back at it now and her fantasy is gone and cruel reality has replaced it. I was reading Redbirds posts and I am amazed how all WW think a lot alike, I guess it is human nature. I will move forward with D, my WW will have to convince me to R if she wants that. I am done putting in the effort. That's true it amazing how all these affairs are similar in many ways, Your plan is to go on with D and consider R only under certain conditions that you would agree on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bigdaddyt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 That's true it amazing how all these affairs are similar in many ways, Your plan is to go on with D and consider R only under certain conditions that you would agree on. Qubist, that is my plan, I truly do not expect R, because my heart really isn't in to it at the present. I won't rule it out either. Link to post Share on other sites
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