Should I do anything or ride this storm out

[OldRover]

GOOD.

 

 

That is how she will learn to grow up.

 

I'm hoping you mean this as a learning experience for her. I don't like anyone to suffer, but there has to be a learning experience and some changing of actions to make a difference. Who knows, perhaps she has learned and will change permanently and things will work out. You never know.

[turnera]

We learn more from negative consequences even than positive ones. It's well understood that if you grow up getting everything you want, or everything without having to work for it, once you hit adulthood, you're at a severe disadvantage.

[qubist]

That's true.

 

People usually do not change unless they are VERY uncomfortable.

 

Being comfortable means they have no motivation to change anything.

 

 

If she's scared = good. That means she MAY be considering adjusting her entitled attitude towards you.

 

It's true that when comfortable people do not push harder to change anything. Just everyone defines its comfort zone differently. People that lack discipline or have some other psychological flaws struggle more to force a change. I think in this case the OP's wife lacks descipline and have flaws she was realizing all the wrongdoings but yet failed to motivate herself to do anything about it. I don't want sound like I'm bashing the OP because I really respect and admire bigdaddyT, but he allowed her to act like this all these year.,In a way he spoiled her too much till he couldn't handle it. Now he forced her to realize the comfort zone has shrunken.

[Bigdaddyt]

It's true that when comfortable people do not push harder to change anything. Just everyone defines its comfort zone differently. People that lack discipline or have some other psychological flaws struggle more to force a change. I think in this case the OP's wife lacks descipline and have flaws she was realizing all the wrongdoings but yet failed to motivate herself to do anything about it. I don't want sound like I'm bashing the OP because I really respect and admire bigdaddyT, but he allowed her to act like this all these year.,In a way he spoiled her too much till he couldn't handle it. Now he forced her to realize the comfort zone has shrunken.

 

Qubist, I fully agree that I allowed this to happen. I was afraid to loose my wife and made the mistake of not confronting her bad behavior and this allowed it to become worse until I am where I am now.

[Bigdaddyt]

That's true.

 

People usually do not change unless they are VERY uncomfortable.

 

Being comfortable means they have no motivation to change anything.

 

 

If she's scared = good. That means she MAY be considering adjusting her entitled attitude towards you.

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]All: Lessonslearned the hard way. [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Rule 1: Ifyou suspect that your spouse is cheating on you, you are probably right. Yourbrain is like a super computer and you pick up and record all sensoryinformation whether you realize it at the time or not. Things that I learnedwhen you first suspect infidelity say nothing. Do a complete investigationgather evidence, document, come on LS and start to put together your evidencewith this experienced forums help. Use a key logger and a VAR, if you canafford a PI it is money well spent. If you can’t afford a PI, rely on closefriends and family to be your eyes and ears. I did not do this at first andsuffered as a result, lesson learned.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Rule 2:You must expose an affair to the world,THIS IS A MUST!!!!!! It forces your WS out of fantasyland and exposestheir affair for what it truly is a cheap, torrid, selfish act. This is theultimate sign of disrespect towards the BS and your family. This cannot betolerated in any fashion.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Rule 3: Inorder to save a marriage from infidelity you must be willing to walk away andmove on with your life. It was only after I made this decision did my WW wantme back. Never be seen as weak or needy. Live and die by the 180. [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Rule 4:There must be consequences for this betrayal. I am not saying to divorce orabusing your WS but they must know the full extent of your pain and loss oftrust. If your WS is truly remorseful and is asking you for the gift ofreconciliation that is your choice alone to give. It must be earned. If thewayward spouse is not remorseful then divorce and never look back on yourdecision.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Rule 5: Bestrong, better yourself, join a gym workout, take care of yourself, don’t drinkor allow yourself to get depressed. Live your life to the fullest with orwithout your spouse. You did nothing wrong and are in no way responsible forthe affair. [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]These are some thoughts that I came up with by being a weakBS, I started out afraid and extremely hurt to being angry, then indifferent tothe pain. The 180 helped me along with this forum to piece this all togetherand become strong. Now reconciliation will be my choice if I choose it not myWW/STBXW. I am sure that the veterans may have more detailed information butthese points worked for me not at first, but after I got my strength back. BDT [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[qubist]

Qubist, I fully agree that I allowed this to happen. I was afraid to loose my wife and made the mistake of not confronting her bad behavior and this allowed it to become worse until I am where I am now.

 

BigdaddyT: first of all it's good to hear from you I hope you and your family are " riding the storm" well. What happened in the past can't be changed unless you create a time machine and go back in time. Focus on what you can do now for the future of your family.

[Bigdaddyt]

All: Lessons learned the hard way.

Rule 1: If you suspect that your spouse is cheating on you, you are probably right. Your brain is like a super computer and you pick up and record all sensory information whether you realize it at the time or not. Things that I learned when you first suspect infidelity say nothing. Do a complete investigation gather evidence, document, come on LS and start to put together your evidencewith this experienced forums help. Use a key logger and a VAR, if you canafford a PI it is money well spent. If you can’t afford a PI, rely on close friends and family to be your eyes and ears. I did not do this at first andsuffered as a result, lesson learned

 

Rule 2:You must expose an affair to the world,THIS IS A MUST!!!!!! It forces your WS out of fantasyland and exposes their affair for what it truly is a cheap, torrid, selfish act. This is the ultimate sign of disrespect towards the BS and your family. This cannot betolerated in any fashion

 

Rule 3: In order to save a marriage from infidelity you must be willing to walk away and move on with your life. It was only after I made this decision did my WW want me back. Never be seen as weak or needy. Live and die by the 180.

 

Rule 4:There must be consequences for this betrayal. I am not saying to divorce orabusing your WS but they must know the full extent of your pain and loss oftrust. If your WS is truly remorseful and is asking you for the gift ofreconciliation that is your choice alone to give. It must be earned. If thewayward spouse is not remorseful then divorce and never look back on yourdecision

 

Rule 5: Be strong, better yourself, join a gym workout, take care of yourself, don’t drinkor allow yourself to get depressed. Live your life to the fullest with or without your spouse. You did nothing wrong and are in no way responsible forthe affair.

 

These are some thoughts that I came up with by being a weak BS, I started out afraid and extremely hurt to being angry, then indifferent to the pain. The 180 helped me along with this forum to piece this all together and become strong. Now reconciliation will be my choice if I choose it not my WW/STBXW. I am sure that the veterans may have more detailed information but these points worked for me not at first, but after I got my strength back. BDT

Edited September 22, 2015 by Bigdaddyt

[Clay]

Sadly it takes being burned and scared for life to really learn these lessons. The next part of your life will be learning how to deal with the fall out from all of this.

 

I hope things are going ok for you.

 

 

C

[Bigdaddyt]

Sadly it takes being burned and scared for life to really learn these lessons. The next part of your life will be learning how to deal with the fall out from all of this.

 

I hope things are going ok for you.

 

 

C

Clay, I am doing well and focusing on the important things in life, my children, family and close friends. My WW is begging me to R, we are still living apart and I have advised her that in a month lets see how she feels about R. I also have alot of scars like you the ones on the inside are always the ugliest and take the longest to heal.

[Clay]

I am glad your taking care of yourself. Keep your family close. I really don't see how you would ever be able to work things out with your wife but it doesn't mean I can't have hope for you. I know what its like to have your world crushed and your kids worlds fall apart while you sit aside feeling helpless.

 

Take your time and focus on them. Who knows in time you might be able to work something out but if not try to maintain some kind of a good co parenting arrangement if at all possible.

 

I know its hard but in time your kids are going to see that if they go through something like this they will need to be smart and protect themselves as well.

 

It will get better in time. I personally would continue your course with the divorce even if you choose to reconcile. Maybe this in itself could stand as a consequence.

 

C

[Bigdaddyt]

I am glad your taking care of yourself. Keep your family close. I really don't see how you would ever be able to work things out with your wife but it doesn't mean I can't have hope for you. I know what its like to have your world crushed and your kids worlds fall apart while you sit aside feeling helpless.

 

Take your time and focus on them. Who knows in time you might be able to work something out but if not try to maintain some kind of a good co parenting arrangement if at all possible.

 

I know its hard but in time your kids are going to see that if they go through something like this they will need to be smart and protect themselves as well.

 

It will get better in time. I personally would continue your course with the divorce even if you choose to reconcile. Maybe this in itself could stand as a consequence.

 

C

 

Clay, I am staying on course for D for now, still living apart . I am at the house with my children and having almost no contact with the wife. I did take her to see a neurophysiologist who diagnosed her with depression and has placed her on medication to treat it. The BPD he is waiting to treat the depression before making a further diagnosis . My FIL will take her to her next visit. I do not know what is in the cards for me in regards to my marriage. D is still ongoing, but I won't rule out R.

[kgcolonel]

BD you are very hard on yourself. I completely agree with every step you have made with one addition: If you choose R, understand that true R may or may not be obtainable depending upon the BS's ability to move forward and allow the WS to earn Trust and Respect again. If the BS can't do that, (as my Dad used to say) you're burning daylight.....

[Bigdaddyt]

BD you are very hard on yourself. I completely agree with every step you have made with one addition: If you choose R, understand that true R may or may not be obtainable depending upon the BS's ability to move forward and allow the WS to earn Trust and Respect again. If the BS can't do that, (as my Dad used to say) you're burning daylight.....

 

kgcolonel, I know that I will have to soften my heart to attempt R, I do remember how my wife really did save me when I was young and made me a better person. I am currently on track to D, wife is begging for a chance at R, will do or sign anything (post nuptial) to get us back together.

[bigman1]

BigD,

 

I may have lost track of this thread, but it appears that you are saying that your wife has depression AND BPD? Or there is a possibility of BPD, but presently she is only diagnosed with depression?

 

If she actually is diagnosed by a qualified professional with BPD, then her behavior makes sense. I have dealt with a lot of people with BPD, and they will do things that are, objectively speaking, immoral, illegal, unethical, and bad. Of course, they don't think that those rules apply to them. It is one manifestation of the disorder. (For some). I do a lot of criminal defense and I can tell you that after talking with enough experts in this area, you would be amazed. It is sad, because I know lots of good people who suffered significant life consequences stemming from acts committed while having an episode or prior to diagnosis and treatment.

 

If she is BPD, then treatment will help her behavior and she may be a safe partner. When off her meds, she's a different person and not safe. Hypersexuality is one symptom. If your wife is cheating while having a manic episode, that is different than just a cheating wife. DIFFERENT ONLY AS TO HER INTENT. It does not help you insofar as being the betrayed and the hurt that goes along with it, BUT at least you know that it is different. Maybe you can work with that. Maybe not. Either is absolutely acceptable.

 

I'm am definitely not a fan of waywards and think that they should lose their marriages. However, if it is the product of mental illness, I take a more measured approach. I don't think they deserve to lose their marriage, but I do acknowledge that the other spouse may not be able to handle all of the difficulties that come with that diagnosis. I'm more of a "for better or worse" in that scenario, but respect those who say that it is just too big of a burden to carry. I've also seen spouses divorce after one suffered a traumatic brain injury or stroke and became a different person. Everyone has their limits. I just suggest that there is a difference, potentially, here.

[Bigdaddyt]

BigD,

 

I may have lost track of this thread, but it appears that you are saying that your wife has depression AND BPD? Or there is a possibility of BPD, but presently she is only diagnosed with depression?

 

If she actually is diagnosed by a qualified professional with BPD, then her behavior makes sense. I have dealt with a lot of people with BPD, and they will do things that are, objectively speaking, immoral, illegal, unethical, and bad. Of course, they don't think that those rules apply to them. It is one manifestation of the disorder. (For some). I do a lot of criminal defense and I can tell you that after talking with enough experts in this area, you would be amazed. It is sad, because I know lots of good people who suffered significant life consequences stemming from acts committed while having an episode or prior to diagnosis and treatment.

 

If she is BPD, then treatment will help her behavior and she may be a safe partner. When off her meds, she's a different person and not safe. Hypersexuality is one symptom. If your wife is cheating while having a manic episode, that is different than just a cheating wife. DIFFERENT ONLY AS TO HER INTENT. It does not help you insofar as being the betrayed and the hurt that goes along with it, BUT at least you know that it is different. Maybe you can work with that. Maybe not. Either is absolutely acceptable.

 

I'm am definitely not a fan of waywards and think that they should lose their marriages. However, if it is the product of mental illness, I take a more measured approach. I don't think they deserve to lose their marriage, but I do acknowledge that the other spouse may not be able to handle all of the difficulties that come with that diagnosis. I'm more of a "for better or worse" in that scenario, but respect those who say that it is just too big of a burden to carry. I've also seen spouses divorce after one suffered a traumatic brain injury or stroke and became a different person. Everyone has their limits. I just suggest that there is a difference, potentially, here.

Bigman, My wife suffered from a TBI after the last infidelity and I have spent over two years taking care of her. This has changed her personality a great deal. I recently took her to see her neuropsychologist who said that she is suffering from severe depression and has deficits from her accident . She is being treated with medication for depression along with counseling. The psychologist said that BPD is difficult to diagnosis becuase my wife has many similar overlapping conditions that mask the illness.

She has been referred to a psychiatrist in this practice for further evaluation .

[Bigdaddyt]

Giving any thought to R should come much later and long AFTER she gives tons of evidence that she is a completely changed person... Until then, carry on by taking care of you and the kids.

 

S2B, I agree with you and I am nowhere near this point. It really would be easier for me to D and move on. I do not feel safe or special with my wife. She told me last night she is happy during the day and miserable at night, I just thought lucky me.

[bigman1]

Okay. TBI AFTER her last infidelity. I get the hard to diagnose BPD with other problems masking it. Tough spot to be in, as you know and are living.

 

Not that it matters, but I'd support you ending it. More reasons to D than to stay. In fact, I don't really see why you stay. Kudos to you for what you have been able to endure and whatever you decide.

[Bigdaddyt]

Okay. TBI AFTER her last infidelity. I get the hard to diagnose BPD with other problems masking it. Tough spot to be in, as you know and are living.

 

Not that it matters, but I'd support you ending it. More reasons to D than to stay. In fact, I don't really see why you stay. Kudos to you for what you have been able to endure and whatever you decide.

 

Big man , Thanks for your support. I am taking care of WW from a distance, paying all bills and taking care of children. If I decide to R it will not be out of obligation . Even now after everything that I have been through, I still love her.

[Bigdaddyt]

You love who she is - or who you THOUGHT she was?

 

S2B, I love who she was and what we had together. On Thursday she will be evaluated by a psychiatrist for B PD. The decision that I have to make is if she comes back as having this disorder do I stay with her or continue my course and D.

[drifter777]

As you probably already know, BPD is nearly un-treatable and the prognosis is poor. That doesn't mean she can't learn to modify her behavior but it is a never-ending battle. And you and your kids will be collateral damage pretty much forever so you guys need education and support too.

[underpants]

so, you are gonna take her back.

 

big talk, big daddy.

[TX-SC]

Let nobody here or in your friend circle dictate your life for you. If you feel she has mental issues and could not make good decisions, then the decision to take her back is a definite option. But, be aware that some psychologist like to overdiagnose in order to keep the weekly visits going. Weigh what the Dr. says against your own observations.

[Bigdaddyt]

She isn't yours to fix. It only up to her to get the help she needs and to fix what is broken inside of her.

 

She has a ton of work ahead of her IF she is to improve. And still at that point she would need years to earn your trust back by becoming a completely different person.

 

It's a gamble. It's your choice to wait and see or leave her.

 

On a side note she knew you needed to see change yet she went to party hard in Vegas knowing your M was on the line. She's completely disrespectful to you.

 

 

My question to you is ---> why is that even something you would consider? I think you need professional help to understand why you would settle for someone who intentionally hurt you THAT much and you still want to have her back.

 

Loving someone is one thing - but loving them so much that you keep going back for more abuse is really concerning.

 

Consider your well being.

All: Ihave read a great deal about BPD recently and the websites give a wide arrange of outcomes, both positive and negative. My STBXW behavior is text book for this disorder. The biggest flag that I didn’t share with the psychologist is that my STBXW doesn’t sleep, she is always up and getting up throughout the night. This is a behavior associated with this disorder. I am going with her today to make sure that I get a chance to speak with the Psychiatrist. I wantto thank Qubist for pointing out this as a possibility; I am going to make sure that she is treated regardless of the outcome with our marriage

 

]The questions Iwant to ask this forum: If you were me knowing what I have dealt with overthe last few years, by reading my thread with my WW/STBXW with her infidelities and verbal abuse. Now with the possibility that she has BPD along with the TBI and depression: 1) would you stop the divorce and work with the medical professionals to make sure that she gets the treatment she needs and try to put the marriage back on track with counseling and medical care. If you choose this option, what requirements would you want in place to make sure that you are protected in the future? 2) Continue with the divorce, and if so what would you do to make sure that you are not perceived as the bad guy and remembering that I will be tied to this woman for life because of the children and possibly grandchildren?

 

I wanted to post that I am getting the He__ beat out of me by family and friends to stop the divorce. It is so bad that last night I had to turn off my phone. One of my best friends told me that he is disappointed in me for not finding it in me to forgive my WW. Even my Brothers are asking me to reconsider what I am doing and we are extremely close and they have never sided against me ever

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bigdaddyt

[Bigdaddyt]

so, you are gonna take her back.

 

big talk, big daddy.

No Big Talk, just living the life that God gave me. I have alot on my plate, if she was well I would walk away and never look back. If I stay I think I will dread it, I haven't made my choice yet. It is a work in progress.

[CarrieT]

I'm sorry, BigDaddy, for what you are going through.

 

I am a woman who was involved in a relationship with an alcoholic with BPD. The ending of that relationship is what brought me to this site in 2008. I tried to work things out with my guy. Believe me, I tried everything. But I didn't have kids.

 

That said, in your shoes I would move forward with the divorce.

 

Marriage vows were constructed back when people didn't live past thirty-five years old, so 'till death do us part, had an entirely different meaning than it does today! People raised a gaggle of kids to be farmhands, and tend to the family's food crops or livestock business. Couples were more dependent on each other, and a single woman was unable to support herself. This is no longer true in our world.

 

The continuous stress of emotional/psychological warfare affects the human condition more than physical abuse, and some men develop serious ailments during their time in these relationships. Prostate problems, heart conditions, blood disorders, herpes breakouts, migraine headaches and glaucoma are a few of the souvenirs men have retained from these relationships -- regardless of how physically powerful they were, before they met the Borderline. If you've repressed your anger in this marriage and felt long-term resentment, you may start having physical ailments as well.

 

How a Borderline deals with relationships is almost textbook: Many do not treat marriage as a new beginning--but rather, an end-game. You work hard to please and get a crumb or two in gratitude, but are abused for your efforts. That will not stop! And for your own well-being, end the cycle. You can be there for your kids and - yes! - even for your STBXW, but not as her husband, but as her friend.

 

You do not have a healthy marriage and it is unlikely that it would EVER be a healthy marriage. You deserve that, at least. There is no reason you can't help and support her through a diagnosis and treatment plan, but do so as a compassionate friend. If you step away from the nurturer/husband role, you both have an opportunity to thrive and succeed.

 

I believe if you stay married, you will - in a sense - be agreeing to forego your own future and well-being for your wife's potential sanity. And that is not fair to you.