Should I do anything or ride this storm out

[Bigdaddyt]

I am glad your taking care of yourself. Keep your family close. I really don't see how you would ever be able to work things out with your wife but it doesn't mean I can't have hope for you. I know what its like to have your world crushed and your kids worlds fall apart while you sit aside feeling helpless.

 

Take your time and focus on them. Who knows in time you might be able to work something out but if not try to maintain some kind of a good co parenting arrangement if at all possible.

 

I know its hard but in time your kids are going to see that if they go through something like this they will need to be smart and protect themselves as well.

 

It will get better in time. I personally would continue your course with the divorce even if you choose to reconcile. Maybe this in itself could stand as a consequence.

 

C

 

Clay, I am staying on course for D for now, still living apart . I am at the house with my children and having almost no contact with the wife. I did take her to see a neurophysiologist who diagnosed her with depression and has placed her on medication to treat it. The BPD he is waiting to treat the depression before making a further diagnosis . My FIL will take her to her next visit. I do not know what is in the cards for me in regards to my marriage. D is still ongoing, but I won't rule out R.

[kgcolonel]

BD you are very hard on yourself. I completely agree with every step you have made with one addition: If you choose R, understand that true R may or may not be obtainable depending upon the BS's ability to move forward and allow the WS to earn Trust and Respect again. If the BS can't do that, (as my Dad used to say) you're burning daylight.....

[Bigdaddyt]

BD you are very hard on yourself. I completely agree with every step you have made with one addition: If you choose R, understand that true R may or may not be obtainable depending upon the BS's ability to move forward and allow the WS to earn Trust and Respect again. If the BS can't do that, (as my Dad used to say) you're burning daylight.....

 

kgcolonel, I know that I will have to soften my heart to attempt R, I do remember how my wife really did save me when I was young and made me a better person. I am currently on track to D, wife is begging for a chance at R, will do or sign anything (post nuptial) to get us back together.

[bigman1]

BigD,

 

I may have lost track of this thread, but it appears that you are saying that your wife has depression AND BPD? Or there is a possibility of BPD, but presently she is only diagnosed with depression?

 

If she actually is diagnosed by a qualified professional with BPD, then her behavior makes sense. I have dealt with a lot of people with BPD, and they will do things that are, objectively speaking, immoral, illegal, unethical, and bad. Of course, they don't think that those rules apply to them. It is one manifestation of the disorder. (For some). I do a lot of criminal defense and I can tell you that after talking with enough experts in this area, you would be amazed. It is sad, because I know lots of good people who suffered significant life consequences stemming from acts committed while having an episode or prior to diagnosis and treatment.

 

If she is BPD, then treatment will help her behavior and she may be a safe partner. When off her meds, she's a different person and not safe. Hypersexuality is one symptom. If your wife is cheating while having a manic episode, that is different than just a cheating wife. DIFFERENT ONLY AS TO HER INTENT. It does not help you insofar as being the betrayed and the hurt that goes along with it, BUT at least you know that it is different. Maybe you can work with that. Maybe not. Either is absolutely acceptable.

 

I'm am definitely not a fan of waywards and think that they should lose their marriages. However, if it is the product of mental illness, I take a more measured approach. I don't think they deserve to lose their marriage, but I do acknowledge that the other spouse may not be able to handle all of the difficulties that come with that diagnosis. I'm more of a "for better or worse" in that scenario, but respect those who say that it is just too big of a burden to carry. I've also seen spouses divorce after one suffered a traumatic brain injury or stroke and became a different person. Everyone has their limits. I just suggest that there is a difference, potentially, here.

[S2B]

Giving any thought to R should come much later and long AFTER she gives tons of evidence that she is a completely changed person... Until then, carry on by taking care of you and the kids.

[Bigdaddyt]

BigD,

 

I may have lost track of this thread, but it appears that you are saying that your wife has depression AND BPD? Or there is a possibility of BPD, but presently she is only diagnosed with depression?

 

If she actually is diagnosed by a qualified professional with BPD, then her behavior makes sense. I have dealt with a lot of people with BPD, and they will do things that are, objectively speaking, immoral, illegal, unethical, and bad. Of course, they don't think that those rules apply to them. It is one manifestation of the disorder. (For some). I do a lot of criminal defense and I can tell you that after talking with enough experts in this area, you would be amazed. It is sad, because I know lots of good people who suffered significant life consequences stemming from acts committed while having an episode or prior to diagnosis and treatment.

 

If she is BPD, then treatment will help her behavior and she may be a safe partner. When off her meds, she's a different person and not safe. Hypersexuality is one symptom. If your wife is cheating while having a manic episode, that is different than just a cheating wife. DIFFERENT ONLY AS TO HER INTENT. It does not help you insofar as being the betrayed and the hurt that goes along with it, BUT at least you know that it is different. Maybe you can work with that. Maybe not. Either is absolutely acceptable.

 

I'm am definitely not a fan of waywards and think that they should lose their marriages. However, if it is the product of mental illness, I take a more measured approach. I don't think they deserve to lose their marriage, but I do acknowledge that the other spouse may not be able to handle all of the difficulties that come with that diagnosis. I'm more of a "for better or worse" in that scenario, but respect those who say that it is just too big of a burden to carry. I've also seen spouses divorce after one suffered a traumatic brain injury or stroke and became a different person. Everyone has their limits. I just suggest that there is a difference, potentially, here.

Bigman, My wife suffered from a TBI after the last infidelity and I have spent over two years taking care of her. This has changed her personality a great deal. I recently took her to see her neuropsychologist who said that she is suffering from severe depression and has deficits from her accident . She is being treated with medication for depression along with counseling. The psychologist said that BPD is difficult to diagnosis becuase my wife has many similar overlapping conditions that mask the illness.

She has been referred to a psychiatrist in this practice for further evaluation .

[Bigdaddyt]

Giving any thought to R should come much later and long AFTER she gives tons of evidence that she is a completely changed person... Until then, carry on by taking care of you and the kids.

 

S2B, I agree with you and I am nowhere near this point. It really would be easier for me to D and move on. I do not feel safe or special with my wife. She told me last night she is happy during the day and miserable at night, I just thought lucky me.

[bigman1]

Okay. TBI AFTER her last infidelity. I get the hard to diagnose BPD with other problems masking it. Tough spot to be in, as you know and are living.

 

Not that it matters, but I'd support you ending it. More reasons to D than to stay. In fact, I don't really see why you stay. Kudos to you for what you have been able to endure and whatever you decide.

[Bigdaddyt]

Okay. TBI AFTER her last infidelity. I get the hard to diagnose BPD with other problems masking it. Tough spot to be in, as you know and are living.

 

Not that it matters, but I'd support you ending it. More reasons to D than to stay. In fact, I don't really see why you stay. Kudos to you for what you have been able to endure and whatever you decide.

 

Big man , Thanks for your support. I am taking care of WW from a distance, paying all bills and taking care of children. If I decide to R it will not be out of obligation . Even now after everything that I have been through, I still love her.

[S2B]

Big man , Thanks for your support. I am taking care of WW from a distance, paying all bills and taking care of children. If I decide to R it will not be out of obligation . Even now after everything that I have been through, I still love her.

 

You love who she is - or who you THOUGHT she was?

[Bigdaddyt]

You love who she is - or who you THOUGHT she was?

 

S2B, I love who she was and what we had together. On Thursday she will be evaluated by a psychiatrist for B PD. The decision that I have to make is if she comes back as having this disorder do I stay with her or continue my course and D.

[drifter777]

As you probably already know, BPD is nearly un-treatable and the prognosis is poor. That doesn't mean she can't learn to modify her behavior but it is a never-ending battle. And you and your kids will be collateral damage pretty much forever so you guys need education and support too.

[underpants]

so, you are gonna take her back.

 

big talk, big daddy.

[TX-SC]

Let nobody here or in your friend circle dictate your life for you. If you feel she has mental issues and could not make good decisions, then the decision to take her back is a definite option. But, be aware that some psychologist like to overdiagnose in order to keep the weekly visits going. Weigh what the Dr. says against your own observations.

[S2B]

S2B, I love who she was and what we had together. On Thursday she will be evaluated by a psychiatrist for B PD. The decision that I have to make is if she comes back as having this disorder do I stay with her or continue my course and D.

 

She isn't yours to fix. It only up to her to get the help she needs and to fix what is broken inside of her.

 

She has a ton of work ahead of her IF she is to improve. And still at that point she would need years to earn your trust back by becoming a completely different person.

 

It's a gamble. It's your choice to wait and see or leave her.

 

On a side note she knew you needed to see change yet she went to party hard in Vegas knowing your M was on the line. She's completely disrespectful to you.

 

 

My question to you is ---> why is that even something you would consider? I think you need professional help to understand why you would settle for someone who intentionally hurt you THAT much and you still want to have her back.

 

Loving someone is one thing - but loving them so much that you keep going back for more abuse is really concerning.

 

Consider your well being.

[Bigdaddyt]

She isn't yours to fix. It only up to her to get the help she needs and to fix what is broken inside of her.

 

She has a ton of work ahead of her IF she is to improve. And still at that point she would need years to earn your trust back by becoming a completely different person.

 

It's a gamble. It's your choice to wait and see or leave her.

 

On a side note she knew you needed to see change yet she went to party hard in Vegas knowing your M was on the line. She's completely disrespectful to you.

 

 

My question to you is ---> why is that even something you would consider? I think you need professional help to understand why you would settle for someone who intentionally hurt you THAT much and you still want to have her back.

 

Loving someone is one thing - but loving them so much that you keep going back for more abuse is really concerning.

 

Consider your well being.

All: Ihave read a great deal about BPD recently and the websites give a wide arrange of outcomes, both positive and negative. My STBXW behavior is text book for this disorder. The biggest flag that I didn’t share with the psychologist is that my STBXW doesn’t sleep, she is always up and getting up throughout the night. This is a behavior associated with this disorder. I am going with her today to make sure that I get a chance to speak with the Psychiatrist. I wantto thank Qubist for pointing out this as a possibility; I am going to make sure that she is treated regardless of the outcome with our marriage

 

]The questions Iwant to ask this forum: If you were me knowing what I have dealt with overthe last few years, by reading my thread with my WW/STBXW with her infidelities and verbal abuse. Now with the possibility that she has BPD along with the TBI and depression: 1) would you stop the divorce and work with the medical professionals to make sure that she gets the treatment she needs and try to put the marriage back on track with counseling and medical care. If you choose this option, what requirements would you want in place to make sure that you are protected in the future? 2) Continue with the divorce, and if so what would you do to make sure that you are not perceived as the bad guy and remembering that I will be tied to this woman for life because of the children and possibly grandchildren?

 

I wanted to post that I am getting the He__ beat out of me by family and friends to stop the divorce. It is so bad that last night I had to turn off my phone. One of my best friends told me that he is disappointed in me for not finding it in me to forgive my WW. Even my Brothers are asking me to reconsider what I am doing and we are extremely close and they have never sided against me ever

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bigdaddyt

[Bigdaddyt]

so, you are gonna take her back.

 

big talk, big daddy.

No Big Talk, just living the life that God gave me. I have alot on my plate, if she was well I would walk away and never look back. If I stay I think I will dread it, I haven't made my choice yet. It is a work in progress.

[CarrieT]

I'm sorry, BigDaddy, for what you are going through.

 

I am a woman who was involved in a relationship with an alcoholic with BPD. The ending of that relationship is what brought me to this site in 2008. I tried to work things out with my guy. Believe me, I tried everything. But I didn't have kids.

 

That said, in your shoes I would move forward with the divorce.

 

Marriage vows were constructed back when people didn't live past thirty-five years old, so 'till death do us part, had an entirely different meaning than it does today! People raised a gaggle of kids to be farmhands, and tend to the family's food crops or livestock business. Couples were more dependent on each other, and a single woman was unable to support herself. This is no longer true in our world.

 

The continuous stress of emotional/psychological warfare affects the human condition more than physical abuse, and some men develop serious ailments during their time in these relationships. Prostate problems, heart conditions, blood disorders, herpes breakouts, migraine headaches and glaucoma are a few of the souvenirs men have retained from these relationships -- regardless of how physically powerful they were, before they met the Borderline. If you've repressed your anger in this marriage and felt long-term resentment, you may start having physical ailments as well.

 

How a Borderline deals with relationships is almost textbook: Many do not treat marriage as a new beginning--but rather, an end-game. You work hard to please and get a crumb or two in gratitude, but are abused for your efforts. That will not stop! And for your own well-being, end the cycle. You can be there for your kids and - yes! - even for your STBXW, but not as her husband, but as her friend.

 

You do not have a healthy marriage and it is unlikely that it would EVER be a healthy marriage. You deserve that, at least. There is no reason you can't help and support her through a diagnosis and treatment plan, but do so as a compassionate friend. If you step away from the nurturer/husband role, you both have an opportunity to thrive and succeed.

 

I believe if you stay married, you will - in a sense - be agreeing to forego your own future and well-being for your wife's potential sanity. And that is not fair to you.

[Bigdaddyt]

I'm sorry, BigDaddy, for what you are going through.

 

I am a woman who was involved in a relationship with an alcoholic with BPD. The ending of that relationship is what brought me to this site in 2008. I tried to work things out with my guy. Believe me, I tried everything. But I didn't have kids.

 

That said, in your shoes I would move forward with the divorce.

 

Marriage vows were constructed back when people didn't live past thirty-five years old, so 'till death do us part, had an entirely different meaning than it does today! People raised a gaggle of kids to be farmhands, and tend to the family's food crops or livestock business. Couples were more dependent on each other, and a single woman was unable to support herself. This is no longer true in our world.

 

The continuous stress of emotional/psychological warfare affects the human condition more than physical abuse, and some men develop serious ailments during their time in these relationships. Prostate problems, heart conditions, blood disorders, herpes breakouts, migraine headaches and glaucoma are a few of the souvenirs men have retained from these relationships -- regardless of how physically powerful they were, before they met the Borderline. If you've repressed your anger in this marriage and felt long-term resentment, you may start having physical ailments as well.

 

How a Borderline deals with relationships is almost textbook: Many do not treat marriage as a new beginning--but rather, an end-game. You work hard to please and get a crumb or two in gratitude, but are abused for your efforts. That will not stop! And for your own well-being, end the cycle. You can be there for your kids and - yes! - even for your STBXW, but not as her husband, but as her friend.

 

You do not have a healthy marriage and it is unlikely that it would EVER be a healthy marriage. You deserve that, at least. There is no reason you can't help and support her through a diagnosis and treatment plan, but do so as a compassionate friend. If you step away from the nurturer/husband role, you both have an opportunity to thrive and succeed.

 

I believe if you stay married, you will - in a sense - be agreeing to forego your own future and well-being for your wife's potential sanity. And that is not fair to you.

CarrieT, I am sorry for the pain that you went through with your XH,you are a survivor. Your post is spot on and is is almost as if you were reading my mind when you wrote this. I am physically very healthy now, but this constant upset is really taking a toll on my mental health. I am depressed and angry at the same time and I dont sleep more than a few hours a night. I havent had anything to drink in several weeks and have started to take melatoin to help me sleep. My WW does drink too much but I dont consider her an alcoholic. I did monitor this.

We are currently living seperately but she comes over daily to put the youngest on the bus in the morning.

I haven't decided on what I should do, a lot of the LS members will tell me to go forward with D. The D is on going but it will take months.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Bigdaddyt

[SpokenFor]

Hi BigDaddy,

 

It is a tough call -- and I find it hard to understand why your family is all over you if they know what she's been up to recently. Hope you can find some space to make your decision your way. I get that folks like her father will see that it is better for her interest that she stay married to you. That makes sense from their perspective.

 

My advice? Well, I think if you weren't moving forward with the divorce she would still be bad-mouthing you, sleeping with men and women, partying, etc. as she did in Vegas right up until you moved forward. That says you have to keep some pressure on or she will not do the work.

 

That's the key for me -- she has to be doing the work. She has to understand that BPD or whatever is a condition, not an excuse, and that this does not join the long list of excuses she has at hand for bad behavior. In some sense the future betrayals you will need to prepare for and probably endure will be worse if she can just say something like "I have a condition that can control me, it isn't my fault so you have to forgive me."

 

For now I'd suggest telling her that you will continue the process and watch to see how she does the work, whether she means it, whether she is doing everything she can to give you good reasons to stay married to someone who has done what she has already done and who will require your constant support and understanding in the future.

 

I think you need to tell her these things directly. Once she understands and agrees (if not, divorce at full speed), the two of you must go together to the people who are pressuring you in both families and in your circle of friends and lay out in whatever detail you feel necessary the extent of her previous betrayals. You both need to tell them to back off and let the process go forward, that she is dedicated to doing the work and you are ready to believe her but will take the steps to also be ready to end things if she cannot or will not do the work.

 

Best of luck, you are being compassionate in a tough spot and I hope you are rewarded. I doubt the rewards will be unambiguous or pain-free, but I hope they are worth it and think that they have a chance to be just that.

[S2B]

All: Ihave read a great deal about BPD recently and the websites give a wide arrange of outcomes, both positive and negative. My STBXW behavior is text book for this disorder. The biggest flag that I didn’t share with the psychologist is that my STBXW doesn’t sleep, she is always up and getting up throughout the night. This is a behavior associated with this disorder. I am going with her today to make sure that I get a chance to speak with the Psychiatrist. I wantto thank Qubist for pointing out this as a possibility; I am going to make sure that she is treated regardless of the outcome with our marriage

 

]The questions Iwant to ask this forum: If you were me knowing what I have dealt with overthe last few years, by reading my thread with my WW/STBXW with her infidelities and verbal abuse. Now with the possibility that she has BPD along with the TBI and depression: 1) would you stop the divorce and work with the medical professionals to make sure that she gets the treatment she needs and try to put the marriage back on track with counseling and medical care. If you choose this option, what requirements would you want in place to make sure that you are protected in the future? 2) Continue with the divorce, and if so what would you do to make sure that you are not perceived as the bad guy and remembering that I will be tied to this woman for life because of the children and possibly grandchildren?

 

I wanted to post that I am getting the He__ beat out of me by family and friends to stop the divorce. It is so bad that last night I had to turn off my phone. One of my best friends told me that he is disappointed in me for not finding it in me to forgive my WW. Even my Brothers are asking me to reconsider what I am doing and we are extremely close and they have never sided against me ever

 

#2

 

 

My situation was somewhat similar to yours.

 

I couldn't control him. I couldn't control what others thought...or said.

 

 

I made decisions based on MY boundary, principles and integrity.

 

If I stayed I would forfeit my self respect. If I left I had a chance for freedom.

 

Even IF she eventually gets well/better - it's no guarantee that she suddenly grows a conscience/becomes a decent person.

 

 

 

Look after or oversee her care for a long while, if needed? Yes.

 

Take her back under the guise that she's changed? No.

 

 

You can t lol family and friends to quit trying to tell you to accept the unacceptable.

 

You have every right to be happy - to have peace of mind. To not feel guilty for things YOU didn't create/do.

 

 

Do what's best for yourself.

[Bigdaddyt]

Hi BigDaddy,

 

It is a tough call -- and I find it hard to understand why your family is all over you if they know what she's been up to recently. Hope you can find some space to make your decision your way. I get that folks like her father will see that it is better for her interest that she stay married to you. That makes sense from their perspective.

 

My advice? Well, I think if you weren't moving forward with the divorce she would still be bad-mouthing you, sleeping with men and women, partying, etc. as she did in Vegas right up until you moved forward. That says you have to keep some pressure on or she will not do the work.

 

That's the key for me -- she has to be doing the work. She has to understand that BPD or whatever is a condition, not an excuse, and that this does not join the long list of excuses she has at hand for bad behavior. In some sense the future betrayals you will need to prepare for and probably endure will be worse if she can just say something like "I have a condition that can control me, it isn't my fault so you have to forgive me."

 

For now I'd suggest telling her that you will continue the process and watch to see how she does the work, whether she means it, whether she is doing everything she can to give you good reasons to stay married to someone who has done what she has already done and who will require your constant support and understanding in the future.

 

I think you need to tell her these things directly. Once she understands and agrees (if not, divorce at full speed), the two of you must go together to the people who are pressuring you in both families and in your circle of friends and lay out in whatever detail you feel necessary the extent of her previous betrayals. You both need to tell them to back off and let the process go forward, that she is dedicated to doing the work and you are ready to believe her but will take the steps to also be ready to end things if she cannot or will not do the work.

 

Best of luck, you are being compassionate in a tough spot and I hope you are rewarded. I doubt the rewards will be unambiguous or pain-free, but I hope they are worth it and think that they have a chance to be just that.

Spoken for, Thankyou for your detail response, I agree that this condition does not give her a free pass for her past or future bad behavior. I will set boundaries with her whether we stay together or not.

Family and friends did not ever see her bad side we kept it hidden, they only saw the good Mother and Wife. I should have exposed this when it was happening.

I am trying to make a good decision based on what is truly best for everyone including myself.

[Bigdaddyt]

#2

 

 

My situation was somewhat similar to yours.

 

I couldn't control him. I couldn't control what others thought...or said.

 

 

I made decisions based on MY boundary, principles and integrity.

 

If I stayed I would forfeit my self respect. If I left I had a chance for freedom.

 

Even IF she eventually gets well/better - it's no guarantee that she suddenly grows a conscience/becomes a decent person.

 

 

 

Look after or oversee her care for a long while, if needed? Yes.

 

Take her back under the guise that she's changed? No.

 

 

You can t lol family and friends to quit trying to tell you to accept the unacceptable.

 

You have every right to be happy - to have peace of mind. To not feel guilty for things YOU didn't create/do.

 

 

Do what's best for yourself.

S2B, Your story that you shared and mine are very similar. I want to make the right decision for everyone, but I also want to be happy. I do deserve this and came back here becuase I was second guessing my decision to D. I will tell my family and friends that I can no longer accept the unacceptable and I also deserve respect and happiness. I guess that if I can divorce and take care of everyone that would be the best outcome, but not likely. Someone always wins and someone looses.

[OldRover]

I too have some experience with BPD. My SO (former GF) had it and I tried like crazy to solve it. She wasn't willing to get help and it was just impossible to deal with. She went from black to white with wild swings in her mood, and her relationship with me. Never knew what was next and the stress finally got to me after I was under a doctors and counselors care.

 

I would have given anything to make it work, but it's hard to fight someone that doesn't want to improve.

 

I know it IS possible to heal, but will take a LOT of effort.

[turnera]

kgcolonel, I know that I will have to soften my heart to attempt R, I do remember how my wife really did save me when I was young and made me a better person. I am currently on track to D, wife is begging for a chance at R, will do or sign anything (post nuptial) to get us back together.

That is when you tell her that you WILL be divorcing and that if she still wants to pursue you after the divorce, she is welcome to, and if you do end up remarrying, it will be with a prenup, not a (weaker) postnup.