Should I do anything or ride this storm out

[Spectre]

Also BPD is not an excuse for cheating nor should it be a Get Out of Jail Free card.

 

Yep and this is the elephant in the room in a lot of threads that involve BPD.

[turnera]

Clay , I can already see your sons behavior in my son. I posted at the beginning of this thread that he was misbehaving and hated his mother and was angry at me for allowing her behavior.

There's a reason for this. He looks to you to see HOW MEN ACT. He wants to be a strong, principled person, but he sees you caving in and NOT doing what a child's version of a strong, principled person would do. Of course, he's a child, so he's in black and white at the moment, not grays. He won't see the grays for many years. My DD is 25 and is just now starting to see the grays in life.

 

Best thing for this is lots and lots of therapy where it's safe to say what he really feels and can get guidance, and lots and lots of communication with you.

 

My H is very hard to live with; SO so very negative. So I started to see DD having problems weighing what she thought life should be like against how HE viewed everything (expecting everyone to hurt you or cheat you, nobody's worth befriending, etc.).

 

So we live near these nice man-made lakes, and when she was in 7th or 8th grade, I started asking her to go on walks with me around the lakes; takes about an hour to do both. We would talk about everything under the sun, because (1) we weren't facing each other, we were walking side by side (thus no 'confrontation' that you get when you face each other); (2) an hour is a long time to kill and you gotta talk about SOMEthing; (3) I listened, never criticized (like Dad did), offered advice only when she asked for it (but I did give examples of how things went in my life or friends' lives, so she could maybe see something in there to take and use for her own situation); and (4) I never said no to going, so she came to see those walks as something special, something I'd always give her.

 

We worked out many a problem on those walks. We solidified our closeness, something she has NEVER had with her dad. I became the person she could come to (she just posted something on FB about having a mother for a best friend) and never made to feel bad. I helped her avoid a lot of bad choices, by just being the one person she could tell anything to. And it helped her relieve all the stress and angst of living in a bad situation.

 

I highly recommend you find something similar to do.

Edited September 25, 2015 by turnera

[Bigdaddyt]

There's a reason for this. He looks to you to see HOW MEN ACT. He wants to be a strong, principled person, but he sees you caving in and NOT doing what a child's version of a strong, principled person would do. Of course, he's a child, so he's in black and white at the moment, not grays. He won't see the grays for many years. My DD is 25 and is just now starting to see the grays in life.

 

Best thing for this is lots and lots of therapy where it's safe to say what he really feels and can get guidance, and lots and lots of communication with you.

 

My H is very hard to live with; SO so very negative. So I started to see DD having problems weighing what she thought life should be like against how HE viewed everything (expecting everyone to hurt you or cheat you, nobody's worth befriending, etc.).

 

So we live near this nice man-made lakes, and when she was in 7th or 8th grade, I started asking her to go on walks with me around the lakes; takes about an hour to do both. We would talk about everything under the son, because (1) we weren't facing each other, we were walking side by side (thus no 'confrontation' that you get when you face each other); (2) an hour is a long time to kill and you gotta talk about SOMEthing; (3) I listened, never criticized (like Dad did), offered advice only when she asked for it (but I did give examples of how things went in my life or friends' lives, so she could maybe see something in there to take and use for her own situation); and (4) I never said no to going, so she came to see those walks as something special, something I'd always give her.

 

We worked out many a problem on those walks. We solidified our closeness, something she has NEVER had with her dad. I became the person she could come to (she just posted something on FB about having a mother for a best friend) and never made to feel bad. I helped her avoid a lot of bad choices, by just being the one person she could tell anything to. And it helped her relieve all the stress and angst of living in a bad situation.

 

I highly recommend you find something similar to do.

Turnera, I like your idea and will give it a try. When my son comes at me mad and angry I try to be kind and gentle, but in the end I get angry with his prolonged anger spells and put him in his place. I know that I have failed to set the example by not walking the walk. I am trying to rectify this. Doing my best to be strong and kind.

[Bigdaddyt]

Please don't mention it, I'm glad I was able to help, that's what these kind of forums are all about. every thread is a lesson for me . without yours I would never have heard about BPD. Thank you for sharing your story

 

bigdaddyT: before I tell my with POV i want to point out to something important, nobody here can/should tell you what to do, you and only you must do it, we all give you different POV to make you see some details that you might not be aware of.

you gave 2 options and asked us which one we would recommend, in my opinion if she is diagnosed with BPD you should consider an option 3 that you didn't list.

Option3: stop the D process for now ( if possible), make it clear that you haven't abandoned the possibility of D, help her get stabilized and more more importantly get yourself back on your feet. it will be some sort of break from this ordeal.

If you do that she will get an additional emotional boost that she desperately needs at this time, your family will appreciate the sacrifice specially your kids, and you will get a period of relative peace to work on yourself.

do you have the right to just walk away and leave her on her own? absolutely, I read carrieT post and she made complete sense, but I'm afraid that if things go really bad with your W which would affect your kids too, you will regret not stepping up when you could. you are also in depression that I can read between the lines of your posts you haven't had much sleep, you need to take a break from all this and take care of yourself.

lastly, what i also read between the lines of your posts is that you are a great man with good heart and mental strength. regardless of what option you choose you will make it at the end.

 

Qubist, I reread your post, thank you for your kindness . I am not sleeping and have been giving everything that I have to fix this mess as best as I can. I truly appreciate yours and everyone's support.

[Spectre]

I have to ask.are you actually preparing to leave your wife or still thinking about it?

[Bigdaddyt]

I have to ask.are you actually preparing to leave your wife or still thinking about it?

 

Spectre, I filed for D she has been served and she is living with her parents. I have a separation agreement keeping me in the house as the residential parent. Finances are separate and I am giving her a weekly allowance.

[Spectre]

Well then seeing how you are with your children and everything..you are doing everything right trust me.

[qubist]

Qubist, Thankyou for this post it is spot on and you are always a voice of reason. I am considering an option 3, but I do not have to stop the D, I would just delay it when the time to do so is necessary to extend the marriage.

The children are my concern and I was told that suicide is fairly common with this condition, which scare the life out of me. I could not live with that guilt and my children would never forgive me the WW did this. I have gotten away from my faith over the last several years but I am trying to pull myself and family back into it, it can't hurt.

 

do not neglect yourself during this process, your main focus now should be you. you will never do anything right if you are under such stress.

I think putting D on hold is the right thing to do now, not just to ease the blame from family and kids but also to get a break for you and your kids to calm down. what we never mentioned here is how stressful all this for your kids. I wonder how they are doing in school.

make sure your kids and the family members that were blaming you understand that you are stressed and under sever pressure.hopefully they'd give you a break too

[Bigdaddyt]

do not neglect yourself during this process, your main focus now should be you. you will never do anything right if you are under such stress.

I think putting D on hold is the right thing to do now, not just to ease the blame from family and kids but also to get a break for you and your kids to calm down. what we never mentioned here is how stressful all this for your kids. I wonder how they are doing in school.

make sure your kids and the family members that were blaming you understand that you are stressed and under sever pressure.hopefully they'd give you a break too

 

Qubist, I will advise the WW and Family that once the WW shows me significant progress we can start joint counseling . The kids are struggling in school they cannot focus. It is more difficult than I thought to be a single parent and work as much as I do. I am going to see my family MD this evening to ask him for something to calm me down. The stress is getting to be too much for me to handle. I do not want to fail or be perceived as weak so I need to do whatever it takes to be able to deal with everything. I am going to take a break from LS for the weekend and work on my family. I will update Monday morning. BDT

[qubist]

Qubist, I will advise the WW and Family that once the WW shows me significant progress we can start joint counseling . The kids are struggling in school they cannot focus. It is more difficult than I thought to be a single parent and work as much as I do. I am going to see my family MD this evening to ask him for something to calm me down. The stress is getting to be too much for me to handle. I do not want to fail or be perceived as weak so I need to do whatever it takes to be able to deal with everything. I am going to take a break from LS for the weekend and work on my family. I will update Monday morning. BDT

good idea take a break this weekend from all that reminds you of what happened including LS, try not to talk about it. I suggest you take your kids out and have some fun, assure them that you will always be there for them. encourage them to focus on school and let them know that you would handle the rest

[TX-SC]

You are in a real pickle here. How is your wife acting and what is her response to the diagnosis? Is she showing true remorse? Have you two discussed her trip to Vegas? How about the drunk call to Amanda? If I missed this from an earlier post, my apologies. As for your son, he's going to take his cue from you. Act accordingly.

[66Charger]

Are you sharing parenting duties? Are the kids not staying with her half the time?

[Civil]

Your kids have one healthy parent who can and will protect and nurture them. If your family and friends understood that your kids could lose that, they'd have another think, and any mental health professional, or anyone who has been there, knows the vital importance of your ability to go forward with some peace of mind.

 

Hopefully, your wife will respond well to treatment, but that can be a slow process, and it's a lifetime process. It doesn't just stop at some point. You were uncommonly wise to set things up as you did: caring at some distance. One of the saddest realities of living with and loving severely disordered people is that they cannot make the kinds of promises that we'd need to maintain a safe, healthy relationship. Not won't. Can't.

 

You already know that masking behaviors isn't productive; we all need to understand our own reality. Kids, too. Yours may be acting out because they don't have enough basic information? It's tough, but it's not betraying your wife. It's a necessary step toward healing her. Family counseling if you're not already. If other family and friends don't grasp what you've been through, they need a more of the history, too. You can be frank.

 

I know that you beat yourself up for not stopping your wife's behaviors sooner, but another huge difficulty in living in proximity to these disorders is that they aren't always shockingly obvious. They can start with small infractions that don't call for big, heavy-handed reactions. But they repeat and grow in tiny increments. Step by step, over time, they become "normal" in terms of how we see that individual. It may go on indefinitely or it may reach a critical tipping point when real damage is done.

 

With your instincts and a lot of honest communication with your kids, you'll have a wonderful legacy. My H and I are children of disordered parents all around, two of them severe cases. I started reading here bc we have to reflect on the long-term effects of disorder/infidelity on kids. Why did we thrive when sibs didn't? We're the ones who separated from our families. Decades ago. It took a long time and was sometimes really bad, but we couldn't let it go on with our kids. Now (this is going to be a terrible brag, but just for you) we're the parents/grandparents of a large extended family. They're middle age now so we have the data. All are emotionally healthy (good choices, ethics, argue well, humor) successful and close. I mean DIL/SIL take us on their vacations close. You have a lot to look forward to.

[Spectre]

For what it is worth I would not want my kids around a woman who could do what the OP's wife did.

[SummerDreams]

The dilemma is really hard. If OP leaves his wife, the message he gives to his kids is that they should't be compassionate and empathise with people. If he doesn't leave, the message will be that actions do not really have consequences and all their values of life will be crushed. I think the best solution is to ask the advise of a councelor specialized with these situations and s/he will be the one who can show you the way you should go. But I really need to tell you that, whatever decision you make, it's sure you will always wonder whether the other path would be better instead. Don't make this mistake to engage with guilts and what ifs. Choose wisely and commit to that decision. Good luck.

[m.snow]

Are you sharing parenting duties? Are the kids not staying with her half the time?

 

the eldest daughter is 19, the eldest son is 17 and the youngest is 10

 

there is only one kid, the other two need to take some responsibility.

 

its like you have to pick-up and drop these two 19 and 17 yo. who can probably already drive. but may be the youngest who is 10.

 

but the 19 can probably handle the 10.

 

bdt had a breakdown when the 17 when out at night with a dirt bike. with no lights.

i used to that back then mom usually panicked. if its already dark and i go out with a motorcycle instead of the car.

[66Charger]

BDT, you have to wonder if your wife will ever love you as a husband and wife should. Her change is only because of the divorce papers. Even on the eve of divorce, knowing the full ramifications, she went to Party. Thats not BPD. That was a premeditated and clear conscience act. Unfortunately, even without any kind of diagnosis, you are married to someone who just doesnt really love you. You will never have 100% of her. Threats and medications may control her behaviour, but deep down, she is who she is. Think about it. She is "fine" during the daytime. To me that shouts she likes her freedom. But when night rolls around, she feels the price. That doesnt instill a lot of confidence.

 

Your question really is, Do you want a "controlled" wife or a free one that loves you for you.

 

IMHO, you must let this one go. If she comes back willingly and as a free woman, then decide. This could be a rebirth or a reality. There is nothing that says you cant remarry if you both want to be married to each other and not just for the kids.

[S2B]

Until your W becomes a completely changed woman - she is not a good example for your kids.

 

And leaving her shows the kids that it IS unacceptable behavior, the way she's been acting. Her behaviors are her example. And it's been a crappy example of the way a wife and Mother should be.

 

 

It's actually a good example you're setting for them by leaving her (YOUR boundary)... Yet showing compassion enough to support getting her help. From there - it is up to HER to help herself. She may or may not do this.

 

 

And those are very good life lessons you can show your kids.

 

 

They can learn that every action has a reaction. Every decision affects others...and that poor decisions look much different than wise decisions.

[Bigdaddyt]

All: It was a very challenging weekend for my Family and me.The WW finally hit rock bottom and had a complete emotional breakdown. Friday evening when I got home WW was there and was in tears saying that she is so upset and cannot stop crying. She said that she is an awful person and knows that everyone is better off without her and that she is only bringing stress into everyone’s lives. I listened to her and tried to be supportive, but she kept going on the offensive with me saying how I was never there for here emotionally and she always felt alone in our marriage. She was actually very nasty and after a short while I basically told her off (mistake). She said that this isn’t about me it’s about her being sick.

 

I asked my oldest son to take the youngest out and do something with him and to be sensitive to his fragile emotional state. Ifinally got the WW settled down and let her sleep overnight in the guestbedroom. The next morning I was doing the 180, just because I didn’t reallywant any more interaction with her. She was sick in the morning and was unable to take the kids to the shore with her parents so I went in her place. In-laws were very cold and I felt very out of place with her family. I spent the day and had lunch with them and the family before we left. WW was still lying onthe couch when I got home, so I took the boys for haircuts and grocery shopping and I made dinner for the family.

 

That night the WW was extremely upset and almost in a manic state, I was concerned and was almost to the point of calling an ambulance, her parents were away so I was stuck with her. I finally got her settled down about1:30am. I focused on the children and keeping her fragile emotional state from getting worse. I let her spend the day Sunday at the house and sat away from her and watched the Pope on TV all day. I took her for a walk/run and ordered out for dinner. In laws took the children and I kept the WW. Today she seems better; however I will not be able to do this long term and will speak to her MD today

Civil: When I started reading your post, I thought that you were a mental health professional because you had a great deal of knowledge onthe disorder and how it affects the family. You were so right about it being a slow process that starts with small infractions leading to where I am today.The new normal just kept getting worse. My focus was always on preserving the family and helping her to get treated.

 

66Charger: I do not know if the WW is capable of giving me the love that I need. I was at the gym today and my trainer hugged me and I almost became weak in the knees from it. I haven’t had sex or any type of affection in two months and I have been making up for it by working out two hours a day seven days a week.When I work out I push myself to the point of exhaustion, I look great but feel like hell.

 

I am going to focus on my family and helping the WW get backon her feet. I will put my needs last for now. I don’t know how good of an update this is, I am doing what I know in my heart is the right thing to do. We are not back together just helping a close friends that needs my help. BDT

Edited September 28, 2015 by Bigdaddyt

[SummerDreams]

I don't know anything about this illness so I will just advise you that you protect your kids by shielding yourself first of all from all this stress and exhaustion. Your kids need a strong parent at the moment when their lives are being shaken like this. Would it be possible that the kids stay at a family's or friend's house for a while?

[Bigdaddyt]

I don't know anything about this illness so I will just advise you that you protect your kids by shielding yourself first of all from all this stress and exhaustion. Your kids need a strong parent at the moment when their lives are being shaken like this. Would it be possible that the kids stay at a family's or friend's house for a while?

 

SummerDream, I am a very strong person mentally and physically , I just felt like I was hit by the reality truck and I am just getting back up on my feet. I am shielding the kids as much as possible but have told them that their Mother is ill and that they need to be strong and have patience . I have also told them repeatedly that I am here for them always and will take care of them.

[qubist]

BDT: what happen is normal considering her mental state, but as bad as it looked I see improvement let me explain, in the past every time she had similar break down she would blame you then turn to her favorite therapy which was GNOs partying, drinking and being silly. This time she did bring some of the blame game but ignored the favorite therapy. To m this is good news. BDT you described this as rock bottom and it really is if you go through it you will survive. I may be in the minority here but I would advise you to put the D on hold allow her back to your house for now.

[turnera]

It's good that you refused to allow her to shift the blame onto you. For HER sake. She needs to start seeing what responsibility looks like before she can improve.

[S2B]

Since she is still so focused on herself and being selfish - there's no room to reconcile.

 

This is not love. This is not loving behavior. This is not a woman who is taking responsibility for what she has done.

 

 

This is a woman having her temper tantrum like a two year old who had her candy taken away.

 

 

When does it become about YOU? What about your needs? What about how YOU feel?

 

Now she's played her pity card and it earned her a spot back into your home.

 

 

Is the PI watching her? Because she could have had ANOTHER party in the house while you were away.

 

 

 

You need distance from HER drama - so she can stand on her own and you can get a break to think clearly.

 

 

She's not offered you anything to consider. She hasn't changed. She only got you to move your boundary - again.

[SummerDreams]

SummerDream, I am a very strong person mentally and physically , I just felt like I was hit by the reality truck and I am just getting back up on my feet. I am shielding the kids as much as possible but have told them that their Mother is ill and that they need to be strong and have patience . I have also told them repeatedly that I am here for them always and will take care of them.

 

I don't doubt you are a great father and the kids should know the truth. I am just saying maybe it is better to protect them from seeing their mother like this. My dad is an alcoholic and I am telling you, the images of all the nasty things he did in my childhood never go away.