Why smart men fail with women

[anduina]

I believe I also have Aspbergers syndrome, but its either not that severe for me, or maybe I've learned over time how to adapt to it. But I definetly have issues with reading body language at times, and understanding why people(especially women) do some things.

• First, it's spelled Asperger's which is no longer classified as a separate disorder in the DSM V since they've combined it with Autism so for people previously diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, they have ASD or are on the spectrum.
  
• Next, your usage of 'its' should be 'it's' and 'definetly' is spelled 'definitely'.
  
• Lastly, ASD and intelligence are separate issues.
  

 

because I doubt you lack the intelligence to understand the difference

How's that for smart enough?

Edited August 22, 2015 by anduina

[spiderowl]

- Talking cars, vans, gadgets

QUOTE]

 

 

Men talking about their passions = poor social skills? I thought women liked passionate men, but is it really just things that women are also passionate about?

 

Actually, it's fine if guys talk about their interests. It only gets awkward if they don't realise they are in mixed group and that such topics get boring after a while. For example, in a mixed group I might mention that I like knitting, but I won't talk about that all the time with female friends while a guy friend sits nearby feeling left out.

[katiegrl]

• First, it's spelled Asperger's which is no longer classified as a separate disorder in the DSM V since they've combined it with Autism so for people previously diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, they have ASD or are on the spectrum.
  
• Next, your usage of 'its' should be 'it's' and 'definetly' is spelled 'definitely'.
  
• Lastly, ASD and intelligence are separate issues.
  

 

 

How's that for smart enough?

 

>>>"Lastly, ASD and intelligence are separate issues."

 

----------

 

Yes and spelling/typing errors on a message board ....and intelligence are separate issues as well.

 

Sheesh!

[hotpotato]

 

Actually, it's fine if guys talk about their interests. It only gets awkward if they don't realise they are in mixed group and that such topics get boring after a while. For example, in a mixed group I might mention that I like knitting, but I won't talk about that all the time with female friends while a guy friend sits nearby feeling left out.

I think if someone is truly passionate about somethibg, its best to leave that for internet forums or special groups.

[compulsivedancer]

My boyfriend is a really smart guy, and so was my ex. Intelligence is the number one thing I look for in a guy. Of course, a lot of intelligent guys are extremely awkward, or don't get out much. Hard to find a guy that doesn't leave the house and can't carry on a conversation.

[Marc878]

A lot of men not just the smart ones don't know women. I'm @ the Mensa level but took the time to figure out what women need/ like.

 

If a woman looks nice - tell her. She spent the time getting ready for you so a complement is always nice.

 

Hold her hand.

 

Learn to listen to her thoughts, etc. it's not all about you.

 

If you're just watching tv together run your fingers through her hair, massage her neck, give her a good foot massage. You get out of a relationship what you put into it.

 

Buy her things for no reason other than she's so worth it. (I put a lot of thought into this and don't buy meaningless tokens).

 

Kiss her and hug her frequently. Women respond amazingly well to the attention.

 

Learn her likes/dislikes.

 

Do your share of the housework. It makes for more downtime together.

 

Take her on date nights even if you've been married for years. Random is good.

 

Cook her dinner. Something just for her.

 

If you want a great long term relationship LEARN how to treat a woman.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Theres different levels of being smart. The list above is obviously a poke at being sort of sarcastic because I doubt you lack the intelligence to understand the difference but I will explain anyways.

 

anduina and enigma32, it seems both of you have misunderstood Male's above statement.

 

He was actually paying you a compliment, anduina, as the above statement expresses his confidence in your intelligence, not the opposite.

 

Your defensive reply to him below, anduina, and your sarcastic reply to him below, enigma32, seems to indicate that you both thought he was doubting anduina's intelligence.

 

But, his statement actually indicates the opposite of how you took it, he was doubting that you LACK intelligence.

 

If he had said, "I doubt you HAVE the intelligence to understand...." that would indicate he thought you weren't intelligent enough.

 

That's why he followed the phrase, "I doubt you lack the intelligence to understand" with "but I will explain ANYWAY." In other words, he is telling you he has confidence in your ability to understand but is explaining it anyway.

 

If the above explanation isn't clear to you here's another way to express it.

 

If you go into a store and the salesperson is showing you a dress and says to you,

 

"I DOUBT you LACK the ability to pay for this dress," he or she is telling you they believe you have enough money to pay for it. There is no lack of funds that would preclude your purchase of the dress.

 

If the salesperson says, on the other hand, "I BELIEVE you LACK the ability to pay for this dress," obviously they don't think you can afford it.

 

Doubting your lack is expressing confidence that you have no lack.

 

Believing your lack is expressing confidence that there is lack.

 

 

 

First, it's spelled Asperger's which is no longer classified as a separate disorder in the DSM V since they've combined it with Autism so for people previously diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, they have ASD or are on the spectrum.

 

Next, your usage of 'its' should be 'it's' and 'definetly' is spelled 'definitely'.

 

Lastly, ASD and intelligence are separate issues.

 

 

How's that for smart enough?

 

Typical Internet response. "Duh, I R so much smarter than joooooo!"

 

Edited August 23, 2015 by LivingWaterPlease

[autumnnight]

Does that mean we can approach dating the way we approach logical equations?

 

I was mainly referring t the fact that logic and emotion are not opposites or mutually exclusive

[katiegrl]

anduina and enigma32, it seems both of you have misunderstood Male's above statement.

 

He was actually paying you a compliment, anduina, as the above statement expresses his confidence in your intelligence, not the opposite.

 

Your defensive reply to him below, anduina, and your sarcastic reply to him below, enigma32, seems to indicate that you both thought he was doubting anduina's intelligence.

 

But, his statement actually indicates the opposite of how you took it, he was doubting that you LACK intelligence.

 

If he had said, "I doubt you HAVE the intelligence to understand...." that would indicate he thought you weren't intelligent enough.

 

That's why he followed the phrase, "I doubt you lack the intelligence to understand" with "but I will explain ANYWAY." In other words, he is telling you he has confidence in your ability to understand but is explaining it anyway.

 

If the above explanation isn't clear to you here's another way to express it.

 

If you go into a store and the salesperson is showing you a dress and says to you,

 

"I DOUBT you LACK the ability to pay for this dress," he or she is telling you they believe you have enough money to pay for it. There is no lack of funds that would preclude your purchase of the dress.

 

If the salesperson says, on the other hand, "I BELIEVE you LACK the ability to pay for this dress," obviously they don't think you can afford it.

 

Doubting your lack is expressing confidence that you have no lack.

 

Believing your lack is expressing confidence that there is lack.

 

Oh the irony.....

 

Very well said (explained) LWP.

 

Hopefully, they both get it now.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Oh the irony.....

 

:lmao:exactly, katiegrl!

[mrldii]

A lot of men not just the smart ones don't know women. I'm @ the Mensa level but took the time to figure out what women need/ like.

 

If a woman looks nice - tell her. She spent the time getting ready for you so a complement is always nice.

 

Hold her hand.

 

Learn to listen to her thoughts, etc. it's not all about you.

 

If you're just watching tv together run your fingers through her hair, massage her neck, give her a good foot massage. You get out of a relationship what you put into it.

 

Buy her things for no reason other than she's so worth it. (I put a lot of thought into this and don't buy meaningless tokens).

 

Kiss her and hug her frequently. Women respond amazingly well to the attention.

 

Learn her likes/dislikes.

 

Do your share of the housework. It makes for more downtime together.

 

Take her on date nights even if you've been married for years. Random is good.

 

Cook her dinner. Something just for her.

 

If you want a great long term relationship LEARN how to treat a woman.

 

OMG. I just, virtually, fell in love.

 

A man does this for a woman (i.e., this woman), he'll get it all back, 10-fold.

 

That's a win/win, any way one tries to logically or emotionally dissect it.

[hotpotato]

Plenty of people do fine in one or several areas of life but dont do well in dating. There are a lot more nuances in dating. The peopke who dont understand that there are a lot of nuances probably find it relatively easy to relate to people.

 

Im a girl, but i can relate to this thread. Dating isnt as straightforward as activities that im used to.

 

Also, its exhausting for some people to go through that checklist of things to do or not do.

 

"Look her in the eye"

"Stand close but not too close"

" Talk about this but not that."

 

Imagine spending an entire date like that. I wouldnt like that for sure. Or how about an entire relationship???

 

I can do well in most things i put my mind to, but dating is a different animal.

[hotpotato]

I was mainly referring t the fact that logic and emotion are not opposites or mutually exclusive

 

Well, I guess that may depend on what youre doing. Most of the things I enjoy are logical and involve very little emotion.

[hotpotato]

Enigma, all of that is easy for you to say because you are not being constantly rejected. That proves the point i was trying to make-which proves my point. The people who think it is easy do things baturally. It doesnt sound like you are struggling to read people.

 

This is why i say its probably best to date people who are different and can relate to you vetter if youve had issues dating. People who dont have issues, just dont get it.

[hotpotato]

Using myself as an example, I talk to women really well. In my entire dating history, I have had only 3 women at the most, who did not want a 2nd date. While I understand there are many nuances to dating, I ignore them and just let it be, aside from a few very simple, very useful rules.

 

 

 

I'll compare dating to math. In math, as far as I know, (I'm not a scholar of mathematics for sure) 1+1 will always =2. Pretty simple. In dating, 1+1 does not always equal a date. You can add it up all you like, and for some reason, the person you are trying to get with just won't go for it. However, sometimes, it will work. Those are the times you focus on. I act the same way with every woman I meet. If she doesn't appear interested, instead of worrying about the intricacies of dating, I move on to someone who is interested.

 

 

 

This is why I suggest everyone forget all that crap. Some women might want you to stand really close to them, while others might not. I say stand as close to her as it feels natural to you. If she doesn't respond well to it, eff her, move on to another woman.

 

Be the best person you can be, focus on the correct people, and f*ck them like you mean it. Anyone who does those things will do OK in the dating world.

 

Thats the point, dating is chaotic, unpredictable, and often illogical. Some people dont want to deal with that.

 

Also, not everyone does everything so naturally and successfully as you.

[hotpotato]

No, I don't get constantly rejected, but that is because I focus on the right people. If you stick me in a room with 10 women, and I asked out the prettiest girl in there, I would probably get rejected. I think that's where most people screw up. I would just talk to all 10 of them the same way. I'd make friends with the hot chicks, the average ones, and I'd even chat up the big, ugly girl in the corner that has no friends. The interested women eventually make it pretty obvious.

 

Obvious to you may not be obvious to someone who doesnt read social cues as well. Not everyone is Enigma... i think you are going in with the assumption that everyone has the batural ability that you have.

[mrldii]

Thats the point, dating is chaotic, unpredictable, and often illogical. Some people dont want to deal with that.

 

Also, not everyone does everything so naturally and successfully as you.

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother, decades ago, when I was in my mid-teens.

 

She was lamenting to me about how 'Meeting people is easy for you. You walk into a room and within 5 minutes, you know everybody's name. You're not shy and uncomfortable like your brother and I am; being able to talk to others comes naturally to you...'

 

I told her, "That's just not true. I am nervous, and shy, and unsure, and apprehensive...just like the two of you are. I just don't let those things stop me from meeting and enjoying others."

 

 

There's a lesson in there, somewhere.

[anduina]

anduina and enigma32, it seems both of you have misunderstood Male's above statement.

 

He was actually paying you a compliment, anduina, as the above statement expresses his confidence in your intelligence, not the opposite.

That's no compliment. It's called condescension which I returned.

[hotpotato]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother, decades ago, when I was in my mid-teens.

 

She was lamenting to me about how 'Meeting people is easy for you. You walk into a room and within 5 minutes, you know everybody's name. You're not shy and uncomfortable like your brother and I am; being able to talk to others comes naturally to you...'

 

I told her, "That's just not true. I am nervous, and shy, and unsure, and apprehensive...just like the two of you are. I just don't let those things stop me from meeting and enjoying others."

 

 

There's a lesson in there, somewhere.

 

Yes, where? Not everyone wants to suffer or be perpetually uncomfortable. *shrug*

Not everyone wants to stand there and plot their every move and every word.

[anduina]

Obvious to you may not be obvious to someone who doesnt read social cues as well. Not everyone is Enigma... i think you are going in with the assumption that everyone has the batural ability that you have.

You're assuming that enigma32 started out feeling comfortable? Is it possible that after years of practice, he became comfortable? Look at mrldii who also didn't start off feeling comfortable.

 

People have to start somewhere. Either that or they won't ever learn people skills since they won't start anywhere.

[hotpotato]

You're assuming that enigma32 started out feeling comfortable? Is it possible that after years of practice, he became comfortable? Look at mrldii who also didn't start off feeling comfortable.

 

People have to start somewhere. Either that or they won't ever learn people skills since they won't start anywhere.

 

For some people, learning social skills is nearly impossible.

For example, i would never catch on to whether or not a man was into me. I would actually have to have someone with me to point it out. Or the guy walks up to me and pulls out his junk. Im one of those people, though im lucky enough to whete my condition is not as severe as it is with a lit of the more awkward men.

 

The point is enigma can learn and do things naturally. Some people out there cannot...

[madjac74]

People who fail always have an article full of excuses. These so called "smart" people want to explain their difficulties in dating with astrological, scientific, mathematical conclusions which helps them to avoid the fact that sometimes women just don't like them.

[Male]

If a guy really is smart, why would it be so difficult to figure dating and people out? Dating is quite logical.

 

• Boy spots attractive girl.
  
• Talks to attractive girl and asks her out.
  
• Girl says no. Abort.
  
• Girl says yes, firm up date.
  
• Girl won't firm up date. Abort.
  
• Girl firms up date. Continue.
  
• A day before date, contact.
  
• Girl doesn't return text. Abort.
  
• Girl returns text. Continue.
  
• Girl doesn't show up for date. Abort.
  
• Girl shows up. Continue.
  

 

 

If men could do this instead of pine, stalk, and whine for pages about "WHY won't she LIIIIKE me," they'd have more success. The end.

 

 

That whole list is easy and logical from my point of view. But it really has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. The hard part is the last line....

 

Girl shows up. Continue.

 

When the woman shows up, and you interact with her...thats the win or lose moment where she's reading you, and expecting you to read her and pick up on any signs she's giving. A guy can have great conversation with her, make her laugh, make her feel good, but if he doesnt kiss her at the right time, or make physical contact at the right time(according to her right time), then all that previous stuff is flushed down the toilet and no longer means anything.

 

 

 

For some people, learning social skills is nearly impossible.

For example, i would never catch on to whether or not a man was into me. I would actually have to have someone with me to point it out. Or the guy walks up to me and pulls out his junk. Im one of those people, though im lucky enough to whete my condition is not as severe as it is with a lit of the more awkward men.

 

The point is enigma can learn and do things naturally. Some people out there cannot...

 

Agreed. I really cant tell when a woman "likes me" enough to want to date me or at least go have a drink.....compared to women that just enjoys my company. Maybe theres a lot of women that would like to have a drink with me, and I think they are just friendly, but I will never know because most women I interact with all act the same. Even the women that I ended up having relationships with or the woman I married all acted pretty much the same in my eyes before I asked them out.

 

I think theres MANY men that just go for it and ask women out, either because they really like her, or they "think" they are getting signs from her. If she accepts, he thinks "wow I was right she did like me"....if she declines he thinks "Damn, I really thought she liked me". Now obviously there are many many situations where the woman gives blatant signals, and the guy picks up on it. But there are also many many situations like I described, where the guy just took a shot in the dark and it worked. I just dont think men and women pick up on each others signs as much as some people think they do. If they did, women wouldnt be over-analyzing their SO's actions to death with their friends, trying to figure out why he did XYZ when in her mind she "obviously gave him a sign to do ABC".

Edited August 23, 2015 by Male

[xxoo]

I think theres MANY men that just go for it and ask women out, either because they really like her, or they "think" they are getting signs from her. If she accepts, he thinks "wow I was right she did like me"....if she declines he thinks "Damn, I really thought she liked me".

 

Nah, it he was getting strong signs from her, he'll still think she likes him. And he may be right. There are other reasons she may decline a date.

[hotpotato]

Exactly! I was the shy, quiet kid. I remember I had this huge crush on a girl back in high school. We talked all the time, and I was totally infatuated with her. I thought she was the kindest, most beautiful girl I had ever known. I never had the nerve to make my intentions known to her. She eventually moved away, but we kept in touch by writing letters for years, as well as the occasional phone call. Finally, after she moved away, I told her I always had feelings for her in one of my letters. Even then, I was too shy to say it on the phone, much less in person. When she responded, she said that she never knew, and that if I had ever asked her out, she would have went. I was floored. I felt like an absolute idiot. I swore from that point on I would be less shy and talk to women. I definitely screwed up a lot along the way, but eventually I got the hang of it.

Imust have missed the part where she rejected you....