10 years on and the tables are turned

[kazacol]

So 10 years ago I was having an affair with a wonderful single lady who I loved intensely... but I was married with 2 young children (2 and 12). Initially she didn't know I was married but I told her after it became obvious to me that I'd fallen in love with her and I didn't want to lie to her anymore. My then wife found out and at the time I fought with myself over whether to leave her for the woman I was having an affair with or to stay for the sake of the children.

This led to fights between myself and the OW as she (rightly so) didn't want to be just a bit on the side, we were off and on for a while as I was trying to make a decision.

It was during one of these splits when I eventually did decide, left my wife and went to give myself completely to the OW. It transpired that in the couple of months we were apart that she had met and married someone else and was moving away to live with him in another country. Apparently she'd found someone who would give her everything she thought she couldn't get from me.

Devastated, I went back to my wife with my tail between my legs and asked to be taken back. I've spent the last 10 years bringing up my kids and living with my wife. There's been some contact with my ex OW from time to time but never more than just friendly chat, I'd tried to call and end to it once or twice saying it wasn't healthy for me and such like but it was always half hearted. I was glad she had a family and seemed to be happy, all the things she wanted she had and I was happy for her. But I wasn't happy in my own realationship and this contact just reminded me of that.

Earlier this year we exchanged a few short emails, and then asked simply 'do you miss me? i miss you'. I had never stopped thinking about her, or wishing things had worked out differently but I never said that in our earlier correspondance and she'd never really hinted that she felt the same way until then. so I eventually replied simply 'only every day'

And well, things have snowballed.

I've finally left my wife, the kids have taken it well (the eldest knew it was on the cards) and I'm positive about the future.

My ex OW and I have met up only once now, it seems we are even more in love now than ever, but this time, she's the one with a young family (4 and 6) and with the dilema of leaving her husband or not. She told me she respects him for all he's done for her but doesn't love him (how can she if she's carrying on with me?) but she won't leave him for the sake of the kids.

Also I can't (right now) provide a viable alternative for her. I live in another country 4500 miles away from her and having just left my wife I have no fixed abode and nothing but debts to pay at the moment (not much of a prospect eh?).

She thinks it could be up to another 10 years until she can leave, I am hoping for something nearer to a year or two, once I've got my act together and finalised a divorce and bought a home.

Am I being stupid?

Just writing this all out had actually helped me see it from a different perspective. I pretty much know i should leave her alone and let her sort things out with her husband one way or another. But I've tried to call it off but it's clear that neither of us want that, we want to keep communicating (currently up to 100 emails and texts per day plus regular calls and video chats while she's at work or home alone) and planning meetings wherever possible. Once or twice a year is probably all we can manage at this stage.

Go on then, tell me I'm an idiot or whatever, I deserve it.

[TerraIncognita]

You are not an idiot. You are in affair fog.

 

You need to go no contact with her in order to accomplish two things - get your life in order without her distracting you, and let the fog to lift, at least a little. Try for 90 days. You should see the situation and the odds of it clearer by then.

 

Re read your own post as if it was written by your son or daughter. What would you advise them?

[amomwhoknows]

You need to move one. You still have a preteen child at home. Focus on raising her/him and getting your financial house in order. Are you willing to move 4500 miles away, because it is unlikely she could move away with her children (her husband is likely to fight her on that.) If she thinks her husband will let her take the children, she is likely delusional and I can't imagine she will leave them for you. Her 10 year estimate is probably right -- though likely it could be longer, again unless she is willing to leave her kids behind. (by then they will be teens and surely not want to move)

 

Work on yourself. Improve yourself. Go no contact.

[Ms. Faust]

Honestly, I think you should focus on yourself, your divorce, your finances, and meeting others. She's 4500 miles away, and there is one key component to a successful long distance relationship: someone or both parties has to move.

 

So either she is going to uproot her kids to live 4500 miles away (which I seriously doubt her husband will let fly) or you leave yours, your life, your extended family, job, etc.

 

The affair semantics pale in comparison to that little monkey wrench.

 

BTW, how long was your affair initially?

Edited August 24, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[kazacol]

Initial affair was just over a year, 15 months from meeting to when she married this other guy (after a month to 6 weeks or so of knowing him).

I will be prepared to move to be there, but only after I can get my divorce, finances and work in order. Thats why I reckon a couple of years is possible. We discussed the possibility of her leaving the country and you're right, it wouldn't happen. I would be the one to move there, and that's exactly what i'm planning to do, I shouldn't have any trouble finding work there and I think my youngest would even enjoy being able to visit me there during holidays etc. She already sees little of me due to my working rotationally.

I'm trying to make excuses to stop me from going NC... but I'm starting to think it might be the only way. but only after our next meeting, only 6 weeks to wait and I've booked it all up already..

I can tell her then that we should cool it for a time, to let the 'fog' clear and re-assess

[Ms. Faust]

OK... so your current plan is to get your finances in order, move to a different country, and then wait apx. 10 years for her to raise her kids?

 

How do you propose raising your teenager in the interim?

[Ms. Faust]

I don't mean to be down on you, I am just saying be realistic here. My SO and I were in an LDR for two years, and we were successful (we actually had our first baby a couple of months ago). But we had a few things going in our favor... mainly nothing tying us down to our location, nothing distracting us from each other, and a willingness to be together as quickly as possible.

 

Your time frame of two years is to get your life and finances in order.

 

Her time frame of TEN years is to raise her children.

 

It doesn't seem prudent to leave your own children to live in another country to wait around and wait for someone else to raise their kids.

 

I wouldn't be so skeptical about it, but she basically told you she ain't leaving anytime soon.

 

I am sure you will do what you feel you need to do in the end to be happy, but I would be wary of what consequences that happiness will entail.

[kazacol]

Big sigh....

You're right of course Ms. Faust, I should really consider my youngest more in this and, i suppose, the different time estimates too (although she did say that 10 years was based on my current living situation and if i was living nearby then it could be much sooner).

I can't bring myself to end it just like that, I'm going to have to wait to do it in person, although 6 weeks could be a long time with this on my mind, it's very possible that I might end up cancelling the trip.

Then we'll just have to wait another 10 years to see if that spark is still there.

It was after the first 10 years, suppose it could be after another, that would be the ultimate test.

In the mean time I can set myself up here near to my little one and her school.

Thanks for the responses, I hope my resolve lasts

[Popsicle]

So 10 years ago I was having an affair with a wonderful single lady who I loved intensely... but I was married with 2 young children (2 and 12). Initially she didn't know I was married but I told her after it became obvious to me that I'd fallen in love with her and I didn't want to lie to her anymore. My then wife found out and at the time I fought with myself over whether to leave her for the woman I was having an affair with or to stay for the sake of the children.

This led to fights between myself and the OW as she (rightly so) didn't want to be just a bit on the side, we were off and on for a while as I was trying to make a decision.

It was during one of these splits when I eventually did decide, left my wife and went to give myself completely to the OW. It transpired that in the couple of months we were apart that she had met and married someone else and was moving away to live with him in another country. Apparently she'd found someone who would give her everything she thought she couldn't get from me.

Devastated, I went back to my wife with my tail between my legs and asked to be taken back. I've spent the last 10 years bringing up my kids and living with my wife. There's been some contact with my ex OW from time to time but never more than just friendly chat, I'd tried to call and end to it once or twice saying it wasn't healthy for me and such like but it was always half hearted. I was glad she had a family and seemed to be happy, all the things she wanted she had and I was happy for her. But I wasn't happy in my own realationship and this contact just reminded me of that.

Earlier this year we exchanged a few short emails, and then asked simply 'do you miss me? i miss you'. I had never stopped thinking about her, or wishing things had worked out differently but I never said that in our earlier correspondance and she'd never really hinted that she felt the same way until then. so I eventually replied simply 'only every day'

And well, things have snowballed.

I've finally left my wife, the kids have taken it well (the eldest knew it was on the cards) and I'm positive about the future.

My ex OW and I have met up only once now, it seems we are even more in love now than ever, but this time, she's the one with a young family (4 and 6) and with the dilema of leaving her husband or not. She told me she respects him for all he's done for her but doesn't love him (how can she if she's carrying on with me?) but she won't leave him for the sake of the kids.

Also I can't (right now) provide a viable alternative for her. I live in another country 4500 miles away from her and having just left my wife I have no fixed abode and nothing but debts to pay at the moment (not much of a prospect eh?).

She thinks it could be up to another 10 years until she can leave, I am hoping for something nearer to a year or two, once I've got my act together and finalised a divorce and bought a home.

Am I being stupid?

Just writing this all out had actually helped me see it from a different perspective. I pretty much know i should leave her alone and let her sort things out with her husband one way or another. But I've tried to call it off but it's clear that neither of us want that, we want to keep communicating (currently up to 100 emails and texts per day plus regular calls and video chats while she's at work or home alone) and planning meetings wherever possible. Once or twice a year is probably all we can manage at this stage.

Go on then, tell me I'm an idiot or whatever, I deserve it.

 

What's wrong with waiting 10 years like she did for you? Serious question.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Popsicle

[Sassy Girl]

Initial affair was just over a year, 15 months from meeting to when she married this other guy (after a month to 6 weeks or so of knowing him).

I will be prepared to move to be there, but only after I can get my divorce, finances and work in order. Thats why I reckon a couple of years is possible. We discussed the possibility of her leaving the country and you're right, it wouldn't happen. I would be the one to move there, and that's exactly what i'm planning to do, I shouldn't have any trouble finding work there and I think my youngest would even enjoy being able to visit me there during holidays etc. She already sees little of me due to my working rotationally.

I'm trying to make excuses to stop me from going NC... but I'm starting to think it might be the only way. but only after our next meeting, only 6 weeks to wait and I've booked it all up already..

I can tell her then that we should cool it for a time, to let the 'fog' clear and re-assess

 

Nice. So you are the kind of man to abandon your children for Ow.

Take it from someone who knows: your child will never forgive you.

Live with that.

 

Selfish

[sandylee1]

What's wrong with waiting 10 years like she did for you? Serious question.

 

She didn't wait for him though. She moved on and got married. Big difference.

[Poppy47]

she still carries a flame for him....

 

Poppy

[truncated]

Before either of you carries this relationship any further, I would highly suggest you both get therapy.

 

I know it sounds romantic and exciting to think that you have both carried a torch for each other for all these years, but the truth is that you have both done the fellowing:

 

(a) lied on a continuing basis for years and years to two people who don't deserve it

 

(b) been willing to hurt others for some very selfish reasons

 

© used your spouses in a very selfish way ( seriously, in the space of a couple of months after your affair ended she met and married someone? That either the sign of someone who was acting like a spoiled child getting back at you and using him to do it, or a very immature person who was using him as a salve to soothe her hurt. (either way, it says something about her that she would use someone in that way. now, she's willing to use you to soothe her boredom in her current marriage? )

 

(d) you are both willing to hurt YOUR children. I say yours, because she doesn't want to pick up and move to be with you, leaving her children behind, yet she is fine with you doing that. So are you. She's fine with you basically abandoning your children for long periods of time, fine with them being hurt, fine with asking you to do so, all so it's easier to sneak around behind her husband's back?

 

It really sounds like the two of you have this fantasy life built up and have used each other as an excuse form facing your real lives. Have you ever really spent any time with her out of the affair context? what if you did get together? what happens when she gets a bit bored with you and decides to look for a little excitement elsewhere?

 

If you really want to move the relationship to the next level, tell her husband what she's been doing behind his back. That way, he'll know the truth, will probably leave her, and then she will be free to move to be with you, and she can have her kids come and spend the holidays with her once a year. After all, from what you say, kids are fine with that sort of arrangement, seeing their parents only a few weeks a year.

[dubliner]

So just to be clear, you had a 1 year affair with this woman, she met and quickly married another man after you couldn't decide whether or not to leave your M.

 

You've had little contact for 10 years then on the strength of a few emails and one meet up you are prepared to ditch your kids and life as it is now and move 4500 miles to persuade her to do the one thing you couldn't do?

 

Your life isn't a movie. You've spent 10 years building this relationship up into some romantic fantasy. In reality you barely know this woman, and what you do know about her is that she committed herself to another super quickly after you 'broke up', it's possible you weren't the only one living a double life.

 

You seem very blasé about your relationship with your children. Your youngest is only 12, hardly a good age for a girl to have an uninvolved father. Does it not bother you that she is starting on the most difficult and confusing period of her life as she navigates puberty and develops from a child to a young woman? Do you really want to abandon a child at this stage of their life, when they need you most to guide them but don't have the maturity to understand that?

 

Considering these are the children you stayed in you M for 10 years ago, what has changed? How have you become so disconnected from them?

[Lois_Griffin]

The fact that you LIED to the OW and didn't tell her you were married is despicable. She's a FOOL for giving you the time of day after she found out how she'd been conned by you. She clearly has no self respect.

 

Am I being stupid?

I think the stupid one was your wife for taking you back after you left her. She obviously has no self respect, either. Talk about wasting YEARS of that woman's life conning her into thinking you were there because you wanted to be. But the truth is, you had nowhere else to go after the OW dumped you and God FORBID you lived on your own and actually took care of yourself. No, it was much easier to run home to mommy.

 

You're selfish and opportunistic and everything is all about YOU in your world.

 

Men who con and lie and cheat and manipulate and use women for their own selfish gain deserve every rotten thing life has to offer them.

 

Go ahead and move to another country like a damned fool. Because it's ALL about you. Go ahead and desert your kids again - you've done a whole lot of that since the day they were born so why should you start doing things differently now, right?

 

Except now, they're old enough to see daddy for what he really is.

 

Good luck to you reconnecting with your 'soul mate.'

[amomwhoknows]

Not knowing the countries involved, there are very few where a foreigner can "just get work." Real work anyway. You will likely still be legally obligated to support your minor child, too. Does your country have child support?

 

Go research the effect that abandonment by fathers has on teen girls. The research is striking and stark. No matter what your child says, you are the adult and it is your job to do the right thing morally and ethically.

 

She doesn't see you often now, sounds like an excuse, but you are at least around, in the same town, etc. In an emergency you could be there shortly. If she has a friend she wants you to meet, you can work it out right.

 

She is about to enter the most challenging years of her life. Go ahead, make a poor choice -- to dam the consequences.

 

Also, as someone said, you have no idea who each other is really. You haven't live together, dealt with real life together, etc. You are willing to uproot your life (and your relationship with your kids) for someone you basically have been on a throne and fantasize about. Do you see how idiotic this is?

Edited August 24, 2015 by amomwhoknows

[JPMC]

You need to be alone, to figure out what you want. Get your house in order, debts paid, and make sure you are emotionally and physically there for your kids.

 

Date other people and have no contact. Right now, you are an emotional tampon to the OW 4500 miles away

 

If after a few years, she wants to move here, then maybe re-establish, but this is a pipe dream

[Popsicle]

she still carries a flame for him....

 

Poppy

 

Right. Just like he always carried a flame for her...

[Ms. Faust]

Yeah, this whole "meh, I don't see my daughter much, anyway" is kind of disturbing and sad.

[whichwayisup]

Work on yourself and be alone instead of chasing the exOW whom has moved on and married someone else. Be a father to your kids, put them first instead of last. One day you're going to look back at this with regret and wish that you had handled things differently, especially when it comes to your kids.

[kazacol]

Ok, WOW!!

There are a lot of very angry people on here, ready to rip me a new one for all indiscretions past, present and considered future.

I suppose I asked for it so i shouldn't be surprised but never really expected to be vented at with such vehemence.

 

Popsicle - That's what I said I am planning to do, wait for 10 years, but thanks for your response

 

Sassy girl - If you'd read my previous post you'd see I don't intend to abandon my child, admittedly I gave it some thought (which is deplorable) but I've decided against it.

 

Truncated - Yeah we're both a couple of ill adjusted lying cheating fools, we're perfect for each other. But I wouldn't dream of telling her husband, if she wants to do that it's her decision and her's alone.

 

Dubliner - why isn't my life a movie? people seem to be imagining my dissapearance to be imminent. I already said I've much to achieve before I can even think about going there, divorces take time, and I would have offerred my daughter to move with me too, it would have been up to her where she stayed, with me or with her mum. given that she's almost 13 now and would be 15 or more by the time I could realistically move I don't see this as such an issue.

My eldest child (stepchild) already has their own home and fiancee by the way. I'm not disconnected from either of them.

 

Lois Griffin - you're an angry one aren't you? I'm sorry for whatever hurt you, really I am. And I probably deserve some of the abuse, but you don't know the whole story so please try not to judge me too harshly. I do appreciate your input however and yes I'm being selfish, it's good to see the other point of view sometimes, so thank you.

 

Amomwhoknows - I am lucky enough to have very transferable skills, particularly between the countries involved and yes there are child support and spousal maintenance issues but i (again luckily) earn enough to support 2 families comfortably. especially now that my ex isn't spending it all. But as i've mentioned before - aI already made my decision thanks to one or two good resonses on here and perhaps mostly on the fact that i wrote it all down which gave me a better perspective on the situation.

 

Ms Faust - Yes that came across badly, not what i meant at all. She would ahve the chance to move with me if I ever go anywhere, I jsut imagine she'd rather stay to finish school and then perhaps University near me would have been an option, but again, I've decided to just wait, stay near her and get a place, and you helped me come to that decision, thank you.

 

whichway is up - Cheers hopefully I wont regret to stay near my daughter through her teenage years and see if this thing can last another 10 years. Only time will tell.

[AlwaysGrowing]

OP, your natural/go-to thought processes seem more than just a bit off.

 

Your daughter, who already has limited hands-on parenting from you, was cast aside...so you could live closer to the OW. You were going to quit your job, move thousands of miles away, move to a different country, put additional financial burden on yourself....for the OW. Your daughter....doesn't even get one of those...for you to be a more prominent figure in her life..YOUR OWN CHILD!!!!

 

 

Those look like thought processes of a young teenager...not an adult.

 

Are you in...or have thought about IC for yourself?

[amomwhoknows]

Ok. Sounds like you are thinking a bit clearer, but should you change your mind.

 

You absolutely cannot ask your daughter to choose (in the US, that wouldn't be an option except for just a few states). This is an adult issue that should be handled by adults.

 

Second, you would be moving for a relationship that you have no idea if it would work or not. YOU haven't spent any amount of real time with this woman in years. (holidays don't count)

 

Finally, you mentioned you could afford to support two families. Does the OW know this? How is her current financial situation? Perhaps "love" isn't her motivation....

[bathtub-row]

I've loved someone this intensely in my life so I do understand this 'torch' thing. However, if that man came to me today and said he was free and all I had to do to be with him is move thousands of miles away, my choice would be very simple -- I would never leave my children and family.

 

Love is great, but not when it's at such a high cost. Nothing trumps family -- namely your children. I know a lot of people don't feel this way but, unlike romantic love, they are your forever connection, your forever love. I don't believe love that's "meant to be" would pull a person in so many directions. I believe it would be effortless, non-taking, and fall right in line with the life we currently live.

Edited August 25, 2015 by bathtub-row

[kazacol]

Right,

 

Always Growing - Either i'm not clear in my posts or you're not reading them properly.

"Your daughter, who already has limited hands-on parenting from you, was cast aside...so you could live closer to the OW."

No I haven't moved anywhere, I was considering doing so after a period of time.

 

"You were going to quit your job, move thousands of miles away, move to a different country, put additional financial burden on yourself....for the OW. "

I was considering finding a different job and moving to a different country yes, I wouldn't do that without first being in a position to do so where nobody would be any worse off. you make it sound like i was planning to just quit and run!

I've already agreed to keep my wife and child in the manner to which they've become accustomed for a minimum of 4 years before I would my wife to even contribute to the costs of running the household. In the mean time I continue to pay for everything and see my daughter whenever I have time off, not much has really changed other then I'm not sleeping there anymore and I've finally given my wife and I the chance to find a more rewarding relationship. Staying together in a loveless marriage for the sake of the children doesn't always have the desired effect and can cause a lot of emotional damage to a child.

If I had decided to move to another country after the time required to get my stuff in order then my daughter would have been of an age where she could certainly decide if she wanted to come with me or not.

 

"Your daughter....doesn't even get one of those...for you to be a more prominent figure in her life..YOUR OWN CHILD!!!!"

See my reply above, aren't these forums supposed to be about supporting and helping people make their own decisions, or would you prefer to use it just to get shouty?

 

Amomwhoknows - I disagree. If I were to change my mind in a few years then I should and absolutely would ask my daughter to choose. If I want to live in another country then I would definitely want her to have the opportunity to come with me if that is what she wants, and even now I think she's old enough to make such decisions about her own future. She's a wonderful and mature 12 yr old, one of the reasons I felt it was finally time to call an end to my marriage as I felt she could now deal with it and process it in a mature way.

You're right though that I would have been moving for an unkown, a big unknown. But I would have been going into that eyes open.

Finally, the OW knows how much I earn and we both know that her H earns even more, not to mention that she earns a good wage herself. We both have more than we need, and she's not after my money, that's for sure.

 

I'm glad to get your responses (mostly), I'm planning to end the realtionship on our next meeting and hope that we can agree to maintain NC for an extended period.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't want to end up with her, but the only way to do that is to wait until we're both in a position where that is possible. Continuing our A is not good for anyone in the long run.

If it takes 10 years (or even longer) then who knows where we'll both be in that time, but my heart tells me we'll still be holding a candle for each other.