He says he has changed but.....

[bathtub-row]

If you have no intentions of leaving him, then I would suggest that you stop making threats about it. There's no point in that. Talking to him about his behavior is one thing, threatening the relationship (when you know you're not going to do anything about it) is another.

 

For better or worse - and apparently there's more "worse" here than "better", you're in this marriage, and you believe that it's too late to start over. That's not really true, of course, but since you believe it, it's probably true for you and would put you in a terminal tailspin if you left this guy. If I were you, I'd focus on teaching your children how to best interact with their dad. How to be strong, self-protective, etc, and that you and your kids stop trying to reason with an unreasonable person.

[Chloecat]

If you have no intentions of leaving him, then I would suggest that you stop making threats about it. There's no point in that. Talking to him about his behavior is one thing, threatening the relationship (when you know you're not going to do anything about it) is another.

 

For better or worse - and apparently there's more "worse" here than "better", you're in this marriage, and you believe that it's too late to start over. That's not really true, of course, but since you believe it, it's probably true for you and would put you in a terminal tailspin if you left this guy. If I were you, I'd focus on teaching your children how to best interact with their dad. How to be strong, self-protective, etc, and that you and your kids stop trying to reason with an unreasonable person.

 

 

 

He has changed incredibly in the past 22 months especially.

 

 

He has made positive moves to interact in the right way with his chidren.

 

 

A colleague has died, he was 54. Makes you realise that life is short. I don't want to stress myself out so much that it kills me off or makes me ill - and yes, probably that is a good description, leaving him would be like going into a tailspin. But, H knows that he cannot be abusive in this family any longer. Its taken a long, long time and much damage has been done - but he GETS IT.

 

 

Counselling will hopefully help.

[bathtub-row]

He has changed incredibly in the past 22 months especially.

 

 

He has made positive moves to interact in the right way with his chidren.

 

 

A colleague has died, he was 54. Makes you realise that life is short. I don't want to stress myself out so much that it kills me off or makes me ill - and yes, probably that is a good description, leaving him would be like going into a tailspin. But, H knows that he cannot be abusive in this family any longer. Its taken a long, long time and much damage has been done - but he GETS IT.

 

 

Counselling will hopefully help.

 

He's a ticking time bomb and you live your life skirting around him, walking on eggshells, protecting yourself and your kids. He just recently had a run-in with your son. Where's the change? You're around him less, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he would appear to have changed. If you were around him again every day, it will be all the same stuff again. The change is not in him. It's in the circumstances.

[Chloecat]

He's a ticking time bomb and you live your life skirting around him, walking on eggshells, protecting yourself and your kids. He just recently had a run-in with your son. Where's the change? You're around him less, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he would appear to have changed. If you were around him again every day, it will be all the same stuff again. The change is not in him. It's in the circumstances.

 

 

 

He is back home....D seems to be getting on very well with him. Laughing, chatting. H is calm and really making an effort. Don't feel like I am walking on eggshells at all. BUT...I think exactly this......as you have stated so clearly......he had a run in with his 18 year old Son, only 3 weeks ago. S complaining about his dad being controlling and acting nasty squaring up to him......and also, he is not with me all the time, so I am not getting the full picture.

 

 

At the moment though, just looking after D, wait till this house has sold, not sure if I will ever be able to live with him full time again! All I know is...he is here on MY terms now. He seems desperate to keep me happy and for D to be happy too. Bit late in the day.

[Chloecat]

OK can anyone help me understand a few things? My D did not like her father very much...only 22 months ago she didn't even want to see him. Now she is getting on well with him. Laughing joking. Going out tomorrow. D said, in front of her father....'isn't dad coming too'? I said 'he wasn't, but he can if you want', she didn't reply.

 

 

They have brought a new games console together, set it all up.

So...the previous bad feelings.....have they all gone?

 

 

Today, out in the garden, I was painting the fence. He came out, lovey, dovey....then started asking me why I was doing this and saying that I should be doing it like that...I just told him to P off eventually as he was so annoying.

 

 

He is with us for another 4 days....not sure how I feel about that!

 

 

Another thing....Why am I feeling so confused, I should be happy ....that D seems to be getting on with her Dad......that my H is making an effort..

 

 

??

 

 

Still waiting for D to have the counselling. Hope its soon. Maybe I will understand more.

[BlueIris]

I would guess your kids are, or are becoming, accustomed to it. They see it’s okay with you, or that the solution is to get angry and then let it go. It can become normal adult behavior and interpersonal dynamics for them.

 

Lots of families in this type of situation are in the “Drama Triangle” or “Karpman’s Triangle.” The kids are part of it. Persecutor, Victim and Rescuer roles shift. Maybe the psychologist will know.

[Chloecat]

I would guess your kids are, or are becoming, accustomed to it. They see it’s okay with you, or that the solution is to get angry and then let it go. It can become normal adult behavior and interpersonal dynamics for them.

 

Lots of families in this type of situation are in the “Drama Triangle” or “Karpman’s Triangle.” The kids are part of it. Persecutor, Victim and Rescuer roles shift. Maybe the psychologist will know.

 

 

 

yes, I checked out the information you gave. It may well be that this is the norm for everyone. ??

 

 

H been back home two days....thankfully, he is off to work again tomorrow. He has driven me mad.

 

 

I tidied up all the heavy bricks he had knocked out of the fireplace - ready for the log burner to go in....but he wasn't happy!! "What on earth!!!? That's just stupid! I cant take much more of this....(shaking his head)" "Just stupidity, stupid people"! And it wasn't a big deal...I put the rubble by the front door as the dog was hanging around and I didn't want her to run out...but intended to take the rubble out later...but I had cleared up all the mess for him. He just over reacted!

 

 

Then we went shopping....came back, he put some pictures up for me....very good....as he had the picture hooks out...I put a small picture up, myself in the kitchen.....he asked what the banging was....I said I had put a picture up.....my D was around at this point, didn't want any arguing.....he came out to see what I had done..."Oh I have never seen anything so terrible"! he said...."its in the wrong place"! He went on about it, I just shhhushed him up as D was standing behind him. He said "No, no.... I am not going to agree with everything you say....D knows that"

 

 

We all watched TV together. Fine. Then, because it is his dads birthday tomorrow....I had said I would buy a certain book for him...but I had been unable to find the one H wanted....He wanted me to go back out at 10 pm. I said No, the shops will be shut. I said "How about this book?" Held up a book, brand new, that his dad may well have been interested in..."No, no, no....he is MY dad, forget it...you were meant to go to .............and buy the thing....we will just have to forget it". I said "Cant your dad have THIS book?" NO NO NO..he said. I thought...I cant argue with him, or DISCUSS this with him anymore...D is around and it will upset her.

 

 

He has driven me mad today.

 

 

He also.....moaned about my Dad....why didn't he help more? (my dad is 76)

 

 

Said how much he hates this house....that he cant go on much longer, that he feels like he is going to die soon.

 

 

Aaaarghhhhhhhhh.

 

 

Is this normal? Am I over reacting. He has changed....BUT........

[turnera]

Hi....been married 22 years. Husband used to be abusive. I was never scared of him, he was an ******* basically. He would fly off the handle about anything.

 

 

My daughter had poor relationship with him.

 

 

Son got on with him through their mutual love of football.

 

 

Anyway...cut a long story short....I split up with him...but he was totally repentant and owning his failures, seemed genuine and he was determined to change.

 

 

However...caught him out...couple of times being spiteful to his 18 year old daughter...she had had depression previously and I was worried about her mental health. When I caught him being spiteful I challenge him and we separated for a while.

 

 

Cut to now....he has been very good....apart from slagging all my family off and calling my elderly father EVIL because he wont help out with some thing in the house.

 

 

My son lives with his dads parents as he is at College in the town there and on the football team doing really well.

 

 

Son texted me on Friday.....I was having lovely time out with daughter.....

 

 

"Dad being a total bastard. Asked me to get some chips at the football game....but they didn't sell Chips so I got him a Snickers bar instead...he went mental...said he wanted water....going on and on...so I walked out...."

 

 

I offered to go get him, bring him home...he refused saying he had football practice on the Monday....

 

 

Further texts....calling his dad Controlling.....son is so laid back and NOT like him at all to get wound up this way.

 

 

Cant ask hubby...by text.....son will only be told not to bother me....and then son will not be able to text me at all.

 

 

Eventually....Son sends me text

 

 

"Actually, dad being total **** head....come and get me....he is squaring up to me, telling me I have a problem..."

 

 

so off I go....I know my husband has left his parents house....where he too stays in the week (when he is working0 and I go get my son and bring him home. Son seems affected and I am concerned. Really concerned.

 

 

When I text my H later that night to tell him I took Son home....he is not happy. Tells me I had no right.

 

 

I tell him, his son has his own mind.

 

 

Daughter doesn't want to talk about it. "you know what I think mum"

 

 

Husband is coming home on Tuesday.....and he will be here for 4 days...then he will go back to his parents house....with our son....and I suspect he will get told off for bothering me.

 

 

I just don't know what to do. My son is tall and strong. But he is sensitive and this is an important year for him.

 

 

Is my husband now lashing out on our Son?

 

 

He used to slap me....and kick me....years ago....he used to tell me to F off....tell me he hated me....and yes he has now changed....but the ghosts of the past come back to haunt me...when I hear how he has been behaving with my son behind my back.

 

 

Hope I can trust him.

 

 

just need some advice. Cant tell anyone....I feel such a loser.

So basically, you've stayed with an abusive man and your two CHILDREN know you've stayed with an abusive man and ARE DONE WITH HIM, and yet you still need to get 'approval' to leave this jerk?

 

NOBODY hurts my child. Even my husband.

[turnera]

Yes, he does have these moments of clarity. Like he SEES the effect of the abuse and is SO sorry!

 

 

I am sitting in bed, typing this. H is next door - sleeping in spare bed. He is upset with me. I feel guilty!! Guilty for upsetting him. For telling him in the garden that I didn't know what our future holds. He looks so sad walking around and I (because he tells me I am his world), have hurt him and I feel guilty for hurting him.

 

 

I want to rush in and say Sorry.

 

 

I wonder why I said those things.

 

 

I wonder did I mean them???

 

 

To live without him. To live apart. The confusion runs deep. One minute I am angry with him, he has abused D he has abused me.....he has tried to be good and in many ways he has vastly improved. I feel guilty for not trusting him enough. But then I remember........my sons texts....10 days ago.....telling me his dad was a controlling bastard....asking me to pick him up.

 

 

I think about my H critiscing my father (even though he has always defended my H) calling my dad evil and saying how much he hates him.

 

 

My H has truly tried to change. I know that. I SHOULD BE GRATEFUL!!!

 

 

Why do I feel guilty for smacking him around the head with past failures?

 

 

Its just seeing our D lying in that hospital bed, connected to a cardiac monitor with anxiety all over her face really did shake me up. And although I have forgiven my H - it is always THERE.

THIS is what abuse does to women.

 

If you do nothing else, EDUCATE YOURSELF. You OWE it to your kids, to protect them from his abuse and help keep THEM from turning into abusers or abuse victims.

 

Have you read this book yet? It's the first book you should have already read:

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

[Chloecat]

THIS is what abuse does to women.

 

If you do nothing else, EDUCATE YOURSELF. You OWE it to your kids, to protect them from his abuse and help keep THEM from turning into abusers or abuse victims.

 

Have you read this book yet? It's the first book you should have already read:

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

 

 

 

Will read that book. Currently reading one called.....Stalking the Soul by Marie-France Hirigoyen. H found the book, down side of bed and had been looking at it.

 

 

My kids are not kids any more. They are adults. We had some great times, happy times...but they did witness arguments and verbal and emotional abuse and that does have an effect. I always felt I was between the devil and the deep blue sea....

 

 

I only live with H part of the time....as I am living a distance from his work and he stays with his parents.

 

 

I will never live with him full time again...definitely not in his home town area. I am happy here. I don't miss him when he is not here. Sometimes, I have a good chat with him and we can sit down and civilly watch TV together and he will even make me a cup of coffee and do the washing up. But, the drama and the issues....it just drives me mad and I honestly know...I couldn't live with that full time ever again.

 

 

Waiting for the counselling to start for D.

[bathtub-row]

Have you read this book yet? It's the first book you should have already read:

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft | 9780425191651 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

 

I recommend this book all the time. I'm glad to see someone else doing the same. In my opinion, it's the best book ever written about abuse because the author truly understands abusers.

[turnera]

Yeah, I call it 'the bible on abuse' because it's simply the best. My DD25 did a project in high school about abusers, after dating one, and I read all the books with her.

 

Side note: She then made a presentation about abuse in dating, and the school asked her to present it to all the girls in the high school, and she did. I wish every school would have that, so girls could recognize the warning signs before it's too late.

[Chloecat]

Yeah, I call it 'the bible on abuse' because it's simply the best. My DD25 did a project in high school about abusers, after dating one, and I read all the books with her.

 

Side note: She then made a presentation about abuse in dating, and the school asked her to present it to all the girls in the high school, and she did. I wish every school would have that, so girls could recognize the warning signs before it's too late.

 

I wish I had been aware. Yes, young girls need to be educated.

 

 

I have ordered the book. Also the guy who wrote it.....is on Facebook. He also has a blog...Healing and Hope which I have subscribed to follow via email.

 

 

Something I read today....in the book I am currently reading, 'Stalking the Soul' ..was this....

 

 

"One remains defenceless until one is out from under the control of the other and can accept the fact that the abuser, despite the feelings one still has or has had, is dangerous and Evil".

 

 

 

 

That's a big word. Evil.

 

 

Struck me.

 

 

Excuse the pun.

 

 

And also this...

 

 

"An abusers words are stuffed with lies uttered in the greatest Bad faith"

 

 

My dear husband, rang me yesterday....asked if I would run a certain errand for him the next day...then had the damn cheek to start telling me that "you should listen to me, I am right, you have made some really bad decisions, really bad"

 

 

After all he has done....the reason we moved, had to move...because of his abuse. Our D....depression....because of - among other things - his behaviour and the witnessed abuse between her parents.

 

 

When he comes home, I think maybe I should be honest.....tell him that once this house is sold, I will be buying a house alone. That, he can live in the same street if he wants....but I cant live with him full time again. He just drives me mad.

[bathtub-row]

Yeah, I call it 'the bible on abuse' because it's simply the best. My DD25 did a project in high school about abusers, after dating one, and I read all the books with her.

 

Side note: She then made a presentation about abuse in dating, and the school asked her to present it to all the girls in the high school, and she did. I wish every school would have that, so girls could recognize the warning signs before it's too late.

 

This has actually been a dream of mine for many years -- to develop a company that holds venues at all schools, teaching young girls and boys about abusive relationships, how they can make you feel, what's really behind the behavior, what real love actually looks like, etc. If it would save one person from one of these people, it would be an accomplishment.

 

If anyone wants to take this idea and run with it, feel free. I'm working on other things right now and can't put the time into it. However, if it never gets done, then I may re-visit it at some point. It's a very critical issue.

[bathtub-row]

When he comes home, I think maybe I should be honest.....tell him that once this house is sold, I will be buying a house alone. That, he can live in the same street if he wants....but I cant live with him full time again. He just drives me mad.

 

Abusers have selective amnesia so he's not going to remember what drove you to make the choices you made. But it does give him the opportunity to point out, yet again, how so completely flawless he is, and how so utterly flawed you are.

 

I think, if I were you, I'd stop making announcements to him about your plans, about possibly ending the relationship, staying, whatever. Just do what you feel inclined to do. He'll get the message. All this talk only makes you come across as weak in his mind. Talk equals negotiation to him. Talking to abusers is usually a waste of time.

[Chloecat]

I would love to be able to warn others. Educate from personal experience. Maybe it is something I could do in the future ?

 

 

I have a lot of tales to tell that's for sure!

 

 

H came back on Wednesday night.

 

 

Been walking dog, washing up ordered pizza, hugging D.

Hugging me.

Flip side -

Moaning about my Dad...again...I told h that my dad had said we should look at this house as an extra job....H...."I cant F....take that"! and "Your Dad can go F.... himself"! I told him he shouldn't speak like that! "I cant take this ****....no one cares about me...." then he said it was my fault for telling him "You enjoy saying these things!"

 

 

It was a blip. BLIP.

 

 

Today....he and I going to choose a log burner to put in....he said to D - "come along..." D said No...she didn't really want to. "I will put you in the car"....(half joking)....I said "Its up to D...if she doesn't want to go then leave it"

 

 

And then up in her room, "Come on you have 5 minutes and then we are going" - she said she didn't feel like it....."or you could just go to work"

 

 

D said "passive aggressive much/

 

 

I said to H "Yes that was a bit passive aggressive!"

 

 

He said "Oh put a sock in it!"

 

 

He smacked the cat yesterday, not hard, because the kitten kept climbing behind the curtain in the living room, when me, him and D were sitting watching TV. I watched him, his reaction...as again the kitten escaped and ran behind the curtain....h lips were tight....he picked the kitten up and lightly smacked her. NOT HARD. D was twiddling with her hair... H then had kitten up on his lap and was petting her.

 

 

So its all very contradictory. if you get the picture. As the book says...that I am currently reading - IF THEY WERE AN ABSOLUTE MONSTER IT WOULD BE EASIER.

 

 

He isn't.

 

 

He was lovely to our dog, she follows me around everywhere....this morning she wanted to come up and see me....He called her down, when she didn't come he yanked her down, I heard her thud down....again nothing vicious....I obviously have trust issues. That's what it is. After everything that has happened I just don't trust him, still watching him, every little thing he does. Some fab things...then some not so fab.

[Chloecat]

Good news is......me, H and D....all went off shopping and it was a lovely day. D really enjoyed the day out. H was helpful, kind...patient - even when I crunched the gears of his car! H couldn't do enough. Helpful, encouraging to D. Really good to see them getting on.. Chatting and laughing.

 

 

Maybe he really has changed.

 

 

Maybe that sounds simple minded of me. Maybe H is trying to make up for the past? Today certainly was a step in the right direction.

 

 

[Downtown]

I would love to be able to warn others. Educate from personal experience. Maybe it is something I could do in the future?

Chloe, yes, I encourage you to stay around to help others. You have much valuable experience to share with all of us. But this is not an activity reserved for "in the future." The experience you share in your two current threads have already attracted over 1,200 views.

[turnera]

Maybe he really has changed.

 

 

Maybe that sounds simple minded of me.

Oh please.

 

And yes, it does.

 

Grow up. Read the material. Accept what you are married to. The 'official' Cycle of Abuse means that, for every bad period, the abuser will institute a good period - what you're in now - to put you back in your place and make you shut the **** up.

 

You are a POSSESSION. Nothing more.

 

Read the books and articles. Go to a therapist. Open your eyes. Real men don't treat their wives like sh*t. So you don't have to accept being treated like sh*t.

[Chloecat]

Oh please.

 

And yes, it does.

 

Grow up. Read the material. Accept what you are married to. The 'official' Cycle of Abuse means that, for every bad period, the abuser will institute a good period - what you're in now - to put you back in your place and make you shut the **** up.

 

You are a POSSESSION. Nothing more.

 

Read the books and articles. Go to a therapist. Open your eyes. Real men don't treat their wives like sh*t. So you don't have to accept being treated like sh*t.

 

I know exactly what he was. That is why I am here, on this forum. Because what he was and what he is....there is a difference, but because of the past I am very untrusting! He definitely has changed for the better. But whether he can sustain this or not?? I appreciate your anger could be justified...its what I scream to myself anyway, so your words are just what I internally say many, many times.

 

 

He has gone back to his parents now....working for next four days....so maybe he is able to sustain a NICE persona for the time he is with me and maybe he would be the utter bastard (which currently he isn't) if he was with me all the time?? I will not be buying another house with him though. Once this house is sold - I will be living in my own home. Its the best I can do for him. He can come over for coffee....he can be a friend..but I DO have trust issues....I don't think I will ever trust him again. Too much has happened. But hey....we did have a good day yesterday.....D and her dad got on well, that WAS nice to see. Maybe the best we can do...is just be friends.

[turnera]

I'm not angry. I have no horse in this race. I'm trying to get you to be realistic. It's 99% impossible for a person to change overnight, and statistics show that the odds of an abuser changing are about 1 person out of probably 30,000. Because it is WHO HE IS. It's a mindset. A belief system. A complete lack of ability to CARE ABOUT YOU. Abusers USE people. Control people. Tear down people. It's who they are and what they do.

 

And you're ignoring the Cycle. The Cycle is all powerful because it is present in every single abuser. They don't even know they're doing it. They just do it because it works: she's starting to get uppity, better play nice today so she shuts up.

 

Go ahead and be friends. From separate households.

[bathtub-row]

Actually, I am getting angry. When I hear about aniimals being bullied while others sit around and let it happen, that seriously gets under my skin. Stop even what you perceive as mild bullying with your pets. It's completely unacceptable. Understand that your abuse compass is somewhat skewed at this stage and that you're minimizing his behavior. Unlike adults, pets are at our mercy - to a point - and they're trusting us to be good to them. Show them that they can trust you to protect them. Please.

[bathtub-row]

And, btw, if anyone talked about my parents the way your H did about your dad, I'd tell them to kiss off and never come back. But that's just me.

[Chloecat]

Actually, I am getting angry. When I hear about aniimals being bullied while others sit around and let it happen, that seriously gets under my skin. Stop even what you perceive as mild bullying with your pets. It's completely unacceptable. Understand that your abuse compass is somewhat skewed at this stage and that you're minimizing his behavior. Unlike adults, pets are at our mercy - to a point - and they're trusting us to be good to them. Show them that they can trust you to protect them. Please.

 

Please don't worry....H would never hurt the pets. I know that much. But, he can be a bit over the top....like telling the dog "Lie down" when there is no need for her to lie down....no risk of abuse, I love that dog...more than my H for sure. lol That dog, seriously, is my best friend. No way would I allow him to hurt her. If she was afraid of him I would know. He pets the cat and dog....he is controlling and over the top sometimes, but he wouldn't hurt the pets.

[Chloecat]

And, btw, if anyone talked about my parents the way your H did about your dad, I'd tell them to kiss off and never come back. But that's just me.

 

He has stopped venting at me and D.....seems he has a new target....my father. He demonises my dad! And yet my dad was always the one who stuck up for him.

 

 

It is disgusting the way he talks about him sometimes. I have told him it is upsetting and he has apologised and said "Your dad just makes me so mad, he has promised to do things in this house and he keeps breaking his promises!"

 

 

H is very black and white.