Dating a woman who has slept around....

[BlueIris]

Why is it a pity for a man to expect the same he brings?

 

No, I meant that it is a pity to live in fantasy.

 

It is fantasy that drives a belief or hope that one fact or trait (ex. low partner count) translates into or equates with something greater (ex. innocent and angelic). Low partner count does not mean goodness, innocence or angelic nature.

 

If just that trait means a lot to you and you bring it, all good.

 

But if someone thinks low partner count = innocence or angelic nature, well, they're just wrong. Maybe they're hoping for simple math ("A low partner count woman will be innocent or angelic" or "An innocent or angelic woman has low partner count") but the math isn't simple. Often it is a dreamy idealism that leads to this kind of thinking.

[BlueIris]

Nothing wrong with a woman who sowed her wild oats but it seems that when she wants to settle down the husband material guy never gets to see that side of her. He is lucky if he gets pity sex once a week. If these women would bring out the freak with their husbands then more men would be all for marrying them.

 

But maybe her wild oats were all vanilla, right?

 

There are so many odd assumptions going on in this thread.

 

For example, let's say a 25 year old woman is a virgin. But she has given 47 blow jobs and has been a stripper for 4 years. What's the goodness/badness judgment there?

[Imported]

But maybe her wild oats were all vanilla, right?

 

There are so many odd assumptions going on in this thread.

 

For example, let's say a 25 year old woman is a virgin. But she has given 47 blow jobs and has been a stripper for 4 years. What's the goodness/badness judgment there?

 

 

 

Nice! Blow jobs don't count. Usually all I ever want. Return the favor? **** no.

[road]

But maybe her wild oats were all vanilla, right?

 

There are so many odd assumptions going on in this thread.

 

For example, let's say a 25 year old woman is a virgin. But she has given 47 blow jobs and has been a stripper for 4 years. What's the goodness/badness judgment there?

 

Did she ingest?

 

 

Was the that 47 with one man or 47 men one time each?

 

 

Was that done on 47 minutes, 47 days, 47 months?

 

 

Was that 4 years of just dancing or 4 years of lap dancing?

 

 

 

 

A number alone is pointless because there is not context to explain that number.

[elaine567]

Nice! Blow jobs don't count. Usually all I ever want. Return the favor? **** no.

 

Well you're a keeper, aren't you?

Er..no.

[katiegrl]

 

 

Was that 47 times with one man or 47 men one time each?

 

A number alone is pointless because there is not context to explain that number.

 

Very good point.

[BlueIris]

A number alone is pointless because there is not context to explain that number.

 

Exactly.

 

Want to get into a trait even more difficult to define? Intelligence. Have a go at that one! IQ? Nobel prize nominations? Grades? Reputation of degree-granting institution?

I'm the only one with the correct definition of intelligence- if he likes me he is brilliant.

[Woggle]

I think Bill Clinton was a good president but this stuff about how blow jobs aren't really sex is one of the dumbest things I heard.

[BlueIris]

I agree. But I said virgin, not sex. Virgin is much easier to define.

[Two Pump Chump]

It's a double standard, true, but one cannot only blame guys like me for being this way.

 

Instead of fixing the problem, you think blaming the opposite sex is a better solution?

 

Just look at the guys on this forum who are seriously struggling to get dates, or are virgins.

 

Your solution is for a women to lower her standards, date guys they do not want nor attracted too and to have pity sex with guys who are insecure, shy or afraid to ask women out in real life.

 

Women actually seem to prefer men with more experience.

 

I have never had a woman ask me how many people I have slept with before I went on a date and I have dated 100s of them.

 

That shy guy who isn't very confident? That comes from a lack of experience.

 

I see your problem. In your world, a woman determines if you have meaning and your worth.

 

The sooner you realize and get self-worth from within, the better. There are hundreds of benefits of that. One of them being, you won't have a problem getting dates ever again.

 

If women actually started avoiding those player types instead of incessantly falling for their crap, the double standard might not exist.

 

1. They like confidence, fun, humor, mysterious, challenge, a guy who can show them them a good time, etc.

 

You know what all the guys you see who are successful with women do / have. Question is, why would you not the same? Clearly, being any of the guys from The Big Bang Theory very rarely works in real life.

 

Another question, How many have you asked out on a date in real life?

 

I have asked tons of "Betas" this question who have zero to no luck with women and I think the highest number I have ever gotten is 3. 90% of the time its 0.

 

I crashed and burned with the best of them and been shot down a lot when I was young punk. You will get over your fear, become more interesting, get a sense of humor, stop trying to hard and back to my earlier point, when you get your self-worth from within you don't really care if they say yes or no. (Which they smell from 1 mile away and actually makes you all that more appealing / mysterious).

 

2. When young, many women confuse "Bad Boys" with "Alphas" since they share many of the same traits (although there is a difference).

 

3. If they have a choice between a "Bad Boy" and "Beta Male" / Pajama Boy" you clearly see which one they will choose.

 

Bottom Line... women haven't changed. You make the mistake of believing they did and changed who you are suppose to be and how to act because of it. What worked for Grandfather, Father, Me, etc. still works and always will.

 

Stop buying into the Millennial Beta Male crap. You tried the whole "Beta Male" thing and it didn't do a damn thing but turn women off, get you "friendzoned" or becoming their "Gay Best Friend". Not to mention, frustrated, lonely and the early stages of bitterness.

 

Go find some older manly men who have good relationships and respected by women. Tell them your challenges with the ladies and ask them for their help / wisdom. After a couple of visits with them and some tough love... I promise you won't have a problem finding a date.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Two Pump Chump

[deadelvis]

No, I meant that it is a pity to live in fantasy.

 

It is fantasy that drives a belief or hope that one fact or trait (ex. low partner count) translates into or equates with something greater (ex. innocent and angelic). Low partner count does not mean goodness, innocence or angelic nature.

 

If just that trait means a lot to you and you bring it, all good.

 

But if someone thinks low partner count = innocence or angelic nature, well, they're just wrong. Maybe they're hoping for simple math ("A low partner count woman will be innocent or angelic" or "An innocent or angelic woman has low partner count") but the math isn't simple. Often it is a dreamy idealism that leads to this kind of thinking.

 

It's not about angelic or innocent, I don't think anyone even wants that. But there comes a point where it's not fun and sexy anymore and you start wondering what type of person you are even dating. The girl I've been seeing who apparently I'm breaking up with, has less than 50 notches in her belt. Only because she had an AIDS scare when she was younger and had an irrational fear of new partners, but within those 50 notches on the bedpost, she managed to do pretty much every disgusting thing that would make a boyfriend shudder. And her attitude is a lot like a porn star or something. It came as a bit of a surprise when someone with less than 50 bodies under them can still have such a callous and detached attitude about sex. Numbers aren't a reflection of innocence or virtua, but that being said, a person of either gender who has slept with hundreds of people probably isn't exactly innocent or saintly.

[Imajerk17]

This is my main beef with this thread:

 

When short guys whine about their height and how unfair that it seems to be holding them back, we (rightfully) tell them to stop whining, that women have a right to pick what they want, and that in the real world it hardly even matters anyway, even if it does on Match.

 

Doesn't similar advice apply to the women who seem to be saying that it is unfair how some men have certain opinions about sexual history of whom they date? Aren't men allowed to have their own standards and expectations? If yes then why is this thread going on for 23 pages?

 

For myself personally, I assume that any girl I've dated has been around the block. That's fine, great actually. As long as she is as wild sexually w me as she has been with anyone else. I'm not sure if the "low number implies sexual fidelity" even holds water. I think this attitude is shared by the majority of guys away from LS. BUT I can see why not every guy sees it that way. And I don't think he owes anyone an apology or that he is "wrong". Any more that it is "wrong" for a woman to insist on a 6' tall guy even while being <5' herself.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Imajerk17

[BlueIris]

Well, first of all not all women are saying that exact thing.

 

One big difference is that this is a thread that started with a man insulting women who have had more than his ideal number past partners (which is so ill-defined anyway). OP began the story using such terms as “easy bar tail,” and related tales of his buddies saying things like: “yeah bro I banged her" and "I ****ed her fast" or "she was easy."

 

Analogy to height: A short woman starts a thread about how short men are disgusting, she tosses in stories of how she and her girlfriends laugh about using them, she asserts that most women feel and act the same way, they’re okay to use but she’d never marry one.… ya know, it’s just not going to go over very well….

[Imported]

This is my main beef with this thread:

 

When short guys whine about their height and how unfair that it seems to be holding them back, we (rightfully) tell them to stop whining, that women have a right to pick what they want, and that in the real world it hardly even matters anyway, even if it does on Match.

.

 

If it's any comfort, the world is not going to change or reflect anything said here. Guys that can get women easily are still going to be sought after by most women. Guys that will use promiscuous women for fun and shun them for anything more are still going to be abundant.

 

 

Being a man is not the same thing as being a woman. We had a whole thread "Poor quality men make women turn gay", and supposedly most women are somewhat bi-sexual, not just one or the other. Most men are one or the other. I think that relates to this thread.

[carhill]

The OP IMO wrote quite a balanced posting and included this observation:

 

So either I can:

A) change my perspective and be okay with women who also sleep around

B) change my own habits to not chase after easy bar tail

 

Even though I love easy sex, I wouldn't be living up to the principles I expect my future dates to uphold.

 

So I'll be picking option B

 

This indicates reflection and willingness to change one's habits and perspective to match with his perception of his apparent current hypocrisy in desiring easy sex but eschewing women for relationships who desire easy sex. Further, the only reference I could find to anything which could be construed as being denigrating to women individually was an article he linked that was written by someone else apparently, wait for it, a woman.

[Two Pump Chump]

This is my main beef with this thread:

 

When short guys whine about their height and how unfair it is holding them back, we (rightfully) tell them to stop whining, that women have a right to pick what they want, and that in the real world it hardly even matters anyway, even if it does on Match.

 

Doesn't similar advice apply to the women who seem to be saying that it is unfair how some men have certain opinions about sexual history of whom they date? Aren't men allowed to have their own standards and expectations? If yes then why is this thread going on for 23 pages?

 

For my friends and I, when we were freshman in HS and later in college... We didn't have much luck with women our own age or older. There are many reasons why but most of them were out of our control. To be frank, Women that were our own age and older wanted to date the juniors / seniors for a variety of reasons.

 

My friends and expected it and no reason to get angry. The women we were pursing were not cruel nor mean. They were just were more interested in all the things that the older, smarter, mature juniors and seniors had to offer.

 

Later on in life, my friends and I who were still single in our early to mid 30s met an awful lot of women in their late 20s / early 30s who really took a serious interest in us. Texting / Calling / Emailing and really went out of their way to pursue us.

 

Well it just so happened, most of my friends and I had little to no interest in these late 20s / early 30s women for a variety reasons. We were dating women who happened to be younger and had more to offer compared to the late 20s / early 30s women did.

 

Just like what happened to my friends and I earlier in life... It's not been my experience that women in their late 20s / early 30s are surprised nor angered by this.

 

Whether you are male or female, If anything I say above comes as a surprise to you... You are naive or watched way too many Disney Movies.

 

Simply put...

 

"In life, sometimes you are the windshield and sometimes you are the bug"

[BlueIris]

The OP IMO wrote quite a balanced posting and included this observation:

 

So either I can:

A) change my perspective and be okay with women who also sleep around

B) change my own habits to not chase after easy bar tail

 

Even though I love easy sex, I wouldn't be living up to the principles I expect my future dates to uphold.

 

So I'll be picking option B

 

This indicates reflection and willingness to change one's habits and perspective to match with his perception of his apparent current hypocrisy in desiring easy sex but eschewing women for relationships who desire easy sex. Further, the only reference I could find to anything which could be construed as being denigrating to women individually was an article he linked that was written by someone else apparently, wait for it, a woman.

 

I agree that it’s a willingness to change habits, but I don’t think the attitude/perspective is changed or changing. This guy says some derisive nasty stuff. It’s not as though honesty, kindness or respect are driving him.

[carhill]

Please point that out in this thread. Quote it. Link to it. Otherwise, it's simply unfounded disparaging of a fellow member.

[BlueIris]

… when guys get together and say "yeah bro I banged her" and "I ****ed her fast" or "she was easy"

 

… women who … have numbers as high as 30 or 40 and it's just disgusting

 

It's hard to respect women these days.

 

Can I mention "girls gone wild" and "jersey shore" and on and on.

 

It's lots of fun to mess around with easy women

 

[off-topic rant redacted]

I believe the mods deleted some. (see notations after above post by mods)

 

Those are just the first two posts of his I looked up. Not going through all of them.

[carhill]

My response was to this:

 

"One big difference is that this is a thread that started with a man insulting women"

 

The thread 'started' with a man insulting women?

 

Please, quote that information!

 

I really want to be clear on this moving forward, so there's no ambiguity. If I'm missing something, point it out, so I can be more sensitive to women's perceptions moving forward.

[BlueIris]

If you don't see those as insulting, well, ok.

I guess we'll see how OP does with the circumspect, low-partner-count women when he talks about bar tail and banging women.

[kilgore]

What has happened here? Do I have to separate the 2 of you?

[BlueIris]

Nah, we're good! (I hope!)

[Two Pump Chump]

I agree that it’s a willingness to change habits, but I don’t think the attitude/perspective is changed or changing.

 

There is a large portion of the population that believes men who use hookers are very undesirable (and that is putting it nicely). If we are being really honest, most women and men think that guy is flat out disgusting and their attitude / perspective on this is NEVER going to change.

 

I choose not to hang out or associate with "man whores". One, in my experience they were not "good" people. They had no moral compass, lied, cheated, back stabbed everyone, drama followed them everywhere and had no respect for themselves much less women. Two, they disgusted me. Three, the women I dated never would have dated me or broken up had I been friends with those type of guys.

 

This guy says some derisive nasty stuff. It’s not as though honesty, kindness or respect are driving him.

 

For many, there is no blurred line between a one night stand with hooker whom you pay with cash or a one night stand with a "promiscuous bar fly" you just met and paid via a couple of drinks.

 

I can't speak for most but it's not been my experience that "man whores" and "promiscuous bar flies" commanded a lot of respect and kindness.

 

There is no right or wrong here. It's a matter of preference. As the thread has shown, there are plenty of people on both sides. People who don't care about your sexual history and people who do. The good news is there are plenty people date no matter which side you are on.

[kilgore]

Nah, we're good! (I hope!)

 

I hope so. Otherwise I'll turn this thread around and go straight home