jen1447 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Leigh you don't need to defend the way you have lived your life to these guys on here or to anybody, if they can't accept you the way you are they are not for you. You should stop. I know the figures judgment is subjective, but Leigh's ....10 men in 4 years? You could get that many notches from regular BFs in that time. I don't see that as anywhere near promiscuous, fwiw. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
guest569 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Sex is more than that to me, I want a woman who feels the same, sorry! I need an emotional/romantic connection to lower my trousers. I could go out and drop $1000 on hiring a drop dead gorgeous hooker with 34G boobs who knows what she's doing, and have "fun and amazing" sex with her that no subsequent woman could get near, in a visual stimulation/technique sense. But it would mean nothing to me without romantic feelings there, so I wouldn't ever do it. Who are you to deem that there was no romance or emotional connection though? Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 self-objectification does not exist. You can either be a sexual object or a subject. And when a woman chooses to have sex with a man (whatever the reason), she is a subject. But, this would basically invalidate almost every sense in which the word 'objectify' is conventionally. Used. E.g., women who choose to do porn, sell sex as prostitutes, wear lowcut tops, do nude scenes in movies, etc. Almost 100% of the time people use the term 'objectify' they are referring to things women voluntarily do. Not that I disagree with your assessment that a person is not being objectified if they chose to do it, but then again I think the term is mostly used frivolously. All that blah blah blah yet you still expect us to hold the door for you. But, see, um, that's, like, different for some reason. # Who are you to deem that there was no romance or emotional connection though? Well, because he was there. Always check the closet first, ya never know. Link to post Share on other sites
katiegrl Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 deadelvis, I just wanted to say that I am VERY happy to hear you broke up with your now ex-girlfriend ....and NOT because she was formerly promiscuous. Proud of you, I know you were really into her. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Justanaverageguy Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I just wanted to touch on an issue here that ultimately seem to have more bearing on the outcome of my last relationship with a formerly promiscuous woman and see if perhaps someone can shed light on this topic, which seems to have taken a backseat to the discussion of biology. This comment earlier really resonated with what I've been feeling. Woggle; Nothing wrong with a woman who sowed her wild oats but it seems that when she wants to settle down the husband material guy never gets to see that side of her. He is lucky if he gets pity sex once a week. If these women would bring out the freak with their husbands then more men would be all for marrying them. It has nothing to do with biology. Men on an average though this is changing tend to be more practical when it comes to our relationship choices. While some women think they can tame a player most men are under no illusion that we can tame a female player. Like it or not the past does matter to a certain extent. It's why most jobs do a background check and so many other things but somehow this shouldn't apply when it comes to relationships. There is a saying in some circles that you can't make a certain kind of woman a housewife and a lot of men believe in that. I think many women would serve themselves well if they said you can't make a certain kind of man a faithful husband. Yes but see this is because of the stupid idea a lot of men are still trying to force onto women. They think they have to "contain" their wild side to give them the impression of being a stable, committed women who has sexual restraint. As woggle also said and many others on this thread made clear .... they wouldn't date a girl who was promiscuous or gave off the vibe of having a strong sexual side. So when the girl decides she wants something a little bit more serious she has to pretend she doesn't have those fantasies and wild sexual desires otherwise she knows these guys wouldn't be interested in something long term. So she starts playing the game according to the old school rules of being a nice good girl who would make a good wifey Men have shot themselves in the foot by trying to force women to act a certain way and by not being able to differentiate between a women who loves sex and has a wild side ..... and women who don't have morals and cheat. If you are a man who loudly says and portray in all his actions that he wouldn't seriously date or marry a woman with a wild side who loves sex ..... then do not complain when you end up with a woman who is (or pretends to be) a plain Jane in bed. Edited August 30, 2015 by Justanaverageguy 3 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I don't see men forcing women to do anything, or vice versa. Let's not be overly dramatic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 down upon. The double standard is not caused by sexism, but by market dynamics. Um .... what drives those market dynamics? Maybe it's sexism? Market dynamics aren't driven by biology in any case!! :laugh: They are driven by humans assigning value to things for any number of arbitrary reasons! :bunny: Who and why were Beanie Babies determined to be so precious. or alpacas a decade or so ago?? Not because of any need or inherent value that's for sure, but because some people decided to place a high value on them. We can just as easily stop devaluing women's sexuality and thank goodness it is well on its way to being the norm!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
yxalitis Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 "I'm just not into that anymore, sure I enjoyed doing X, Y and Z with other men in the past, (many of whom were casual hookups) but now I've changed, and I'm only interested in having a "normal sex life" so i'm sorry if you feel like you're missing out, but all that wild and freaky sex I was having was just a phase, and from that I learned that what I really want is "vanilla sex" with my boyfriend" But when we hear those kind of statements it's absolutely heart-wrenching. When I hear her say things like that, this is what I'm actually hearing her say You use the term "Heart Wrenching" Not "Frustrating" or "annoying" etc Seems you really equate "Wild and freaky sex" with love... Whereas for most people sex is just part of the picture. We associate the more emotionally connected sex with love. Yes, you can have astonishing, super horny sex with the love of your life, of course, and that's great when it happens, but it's not MANDATORY. Why do you think you need your GF to be a sex goddess to love her... Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) But, this would basically invalidate almost every sense in which the word 'objectify' is conventionally. Used. E.g., women who choose to do porn, sell sex as prostitutes, wear lowcut tops, do nude scenes in movies, etc. Almost 100% of the time people use the term 'objectify' they are referring to things women voluntarily do. Not that I disagree with your assessment that a person is not being objectified if they chose to do it, but then again I think the term is mostly used frivolously. . Did you watch the video I posted? It's very well explained... Edited August 30, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Add link Link to post Share on other sites
Pull n Pray Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What does "whose physical attractiveness is equal to his own" have to do with this anyway?!?! I used that qualifier for the sake of making an apples to apples comparison. An average looking promiscuous man who regularly has sex with unattractive women will not be thought of as a stud by his male peers. Men will envy him no more than women would envy a female of average attractiveness who regularly has sex with men of average attractiveness. Men are more interested in casual sex than women. And when looking for a casual hookup, men lower their standards while woman raise theirs. It can be very painful for a girl when she discovers that the guy she hooked up with doesn't think she is physically attractive enough to date. Likewise, it can be very painful for a guy to discover that while his girlfriend made him wait weeks for sex, she has had several one night stands with guys who are more attractive than him. Here is an interesting study relevant to this topic. One of its findings was that for men, their number of sexual partners increases with increasing physical attractiveness. But for women it is the opposite. Their number of sex partners decreases with increasing physical attractiveness. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mr_dave Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Who are you to deem that there was no romance or emotional connection though? Nobody. If deep emotional and romantic connections occur so often that you feel them for dozens of guys or gals you've just met, then good for you I guess! I wonder how deep it can be, however. I like to know what a woman is really like on the inside before I venture inside. Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Did you watch the video I posted? It's very well explained... It really is, but I'm sorry to say that I think the people who would really benefit from its message will NEVER EVER watch it especially not with an open mind. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 now that you have reformed your lifestyle and changed your attitudes about sexuality, do you think you still give a partner the same sorts of sexual experiences you gave to men in the past or do you feel like you have a "been there done that" attitude about sex now? Well there you go. A woman's, or a PERSON'S sexuality is about themselves. It's not about a woman "giving the same sorts of sexual experiences" to a man, it's about what she wants to have for HER OWN sex life at any given time. It is not BAD if it happens to be fluid!!! If it doesn't match up with what YOU want, then she is not the girl for you and you are sure not the man for her!! This sounds super entitled to me, sorry! Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I used that qualifier for the sake of making an apples to apples comparison. An average looking promiscuous man who regularly has sex with unattractive women will not be thought of as a stud by his male peers. Men will envy him no more than women would envy a female of average attractiveness who regularly has sex with men of average attractiveness. Okay. I guess if what's important to you is to "be thought of as a stud " by your male peers, that's up to you. Maybe you'll grow out of it though as I think most guys I knew in high school have by now!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It really is, but I'm sorry to say that I think the people who would really benefit from its message will NEVER EVER watch it especially not with an open mind. There is one guy in the Feminism and Gender thread who did! It gives me hope! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/545335-feminism-gender-roles#post6518574 Link to post Share on other sites
mr_dave Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 You use the term "Heart Wrenching" Not "Frustrating" or "annoying" etc Seems you really equate "Wild and freaky sex" with love... Whereas for most people sex is just part of the picture. We associate the more emotionally connected sex with love. Yes, you can have astonishing, super horny sex with the love of your life, of course, and that's great when it happens, but it's not MANDATORY. Why do you think you need your GF to be a sex goddess to love her... I'm not deadelvis, but I think the answer might is "because she was for other guys" In terms of sex, he was being treated worse than some random hookup or FWB.. They got her at her best, he gets scraps despite being her caring boyfriend. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 In terms of sex, he was being treated worse than some random hookup or FWB.. They got her at her best, he gets scraps despite being her caring boyfriend. Can you not understand that her behavior with the random hookups or whatever might not be THE BEST for HER??? Once again this guy is looking at his girlfriend as a SEXUAL OBJECT. A THING that exists to do something for him, who would be the "subject." And he's pissed and evidently hurt too that "it" is not functioning as he'd like it too. I'm not saying that if his sex life is not satisfactory to him he needs to endure that not at all!!! IMO he would need to either try to make it better, or to move on to a more compatible person! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mr_dave Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Can you not understand that her behavior with the random hookups or whatever might not be THE BEST for HER??? Once again this guy is looking at his girlfriend as a SEXUAL OBJECT. A THING that exists to do something for him, who would be the "subject." And he's pissed and evidently hurt too that "it" is not functioning as he'd like it too. I'm not saying that if his sex life is not satisfactory to him he needs to endure that not at all!!! IMO he would need to either try to make it better, or to move on to a more compatible person! So she didn't want to do any of it, or find it enjoyable? Why do it then? I wouldn't make a girl do anything, or see her as an object. But how many guys like deadelvis have ended up with wives/gfs who were formerly sexual but turn down the guy they supposedly 'love' all the time? Are they only good enough for being a provider and not a lover? It would probably feel only marginally better than being cuckolded. What guy wants to feel like that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pull n Pray Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Um .... what drives those market dynamics? Maybe it's sexism? No. It is our biology. Males are biologically programmed to be more interested in casual sex than females. This difference skews the sexual marketplace, and necessarily causes society to evaluate promiscuous men differently than we evaluate promiscuous women. Generally, a man who has a lot of sex is able to do so because he is in high demand, while a woman who has a lot of sex does so because she has chosen to make herself in high supply. This is why most men would envy Kirk Norcross, but most women would not envy Crystal Warren. What distinguishes a promiscuous man from other men is his desirability. What distinguishes a promiscuous woman from other women is her availability. While logic dictates that we judge promiscuous men and promiscuous women differently from a desirability standpoint, we shouldn't judge them differently from a moral standpoint. The moral double standard is sexist. I don't condone promiscuous woman-shaming. Despite our biological differences, I think everyone should still be held to the same moral standard. And there is nothing wrong with someone of either sex being promiscuous so long as he/she isn't cheating on someone. I enjoy dating promiscuous women. Right now, I consciously avoid "good girls" because those are the ones I tend to fall in love with and I'm not ready to settle down. But if I ever decide I want to get married, I will unapologetically look for a woman who is relatively sexually innocent. As I said, these are the girls I tend to fall in love with. I don't think I am being any more hypocritical than a waitress who wants to marry a wealthy man, a shorter than average woman who wants to marry a taller than average man, or an emotional woman who would prefer a man who cries less than she does. Will I be able to find sexually inexperienced girls who are able to look past my own promiscuity? Of course I will. Perhaps many of these girls will see my promiscuity as a negative quality, but most of them will likely assign more weight to all the positive qualities that allowed me to be promiscuous in the first place. Is it fair that a promiscuous man can find a chaste woman to marry him? I guess not. But is it fair that a waitress could find a doctor to marry her? Is it fair that a woman of average attractiveness can find many more willing casual sex partners than a man of average attractiveness? Life isn't fair. Okay. I guess if what's important to you is to "be thought of as a stud " by your male peers, that's up to you. Maybe you'll grow out of it though as I think most guys I knew in high school have by now!! You have the cause and effect reversed. The high-fives from friends are a secondary reward. A distant second. Edited August 31, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Well there you go. A woman's, or a PERSON'S sexuality is about themselves. It's not about a woman "giving the same sorts of sexual experiences" to a man, it's about what she wants to have for HER OWN sex life at any given time. It is not BAD if it happens to be fluid!!! If it doesn't match up with what YOU want, then she is not the girl for you and you are sure not the man for her!! This sounds super entitled to me, sorry! Wait, so, you're saying a woman is entitled to a man she wants even if he disapproves of her past behavior? Let's get this straight. I've been told I'm too short, too inexperienced sexually, too lots of things. But a guy says, 'sorry, slept with too many men,' now it's entitlement, not just preference? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 One of my best female friends is a formerly promiscuous girl. For years she would come to me for dating advice because she couldn't seem to find a decent boyfriend. I told her it was a combination of two things; her menagerie of guy "friends" and the fact that she had gained a certain reputation around town. For years she didn't believe me, but for some reason, every boyfriend she managed to get was either a total douchebag to her, treated her like a prostitute, was abusive, ect. A maybe 5 years ago, she went made some changes. She said goodbye to all of her guy "friends," (other than me) quit sleeping around, quit hitting the clubs all the time, changed her look, attitude, everything. She is now married to a decent guy. That marriage is not without problems though. Her husband was forced to deal with the fact that I was basically her best friend, mostly because she told him we never had a sexual history, which is BS. She has been faithful to him so far, but that has been a serious struggle for her. She confides in me how she misses going out to the club and having fun all the time. One night, she got wasted while out drinking with her female friends (at least that's what she told her husband) and called me to pick her up from the parking lot she was currently sitting in. When I picked her up, she had no pants on. She didn't want her husband to see her in that condition, so she asked me to drive her back to my place, where she quickly tried to get me to have sex with her. I declined, because I didn't want to cause her relationship any more issues. It's also worth mentioning that her relationship is much like how Deadelvis describes his. This is one freaky, sexual girl. If anyone knows, it's me. However, she doesn't do much of anything with her husband. They have sex very infrequently. She is one of those people that is always saying people shouldn't judge based on someone's past. I get it. If I had a really sh*tty past and people were apprehensive around me, I might not want to get judged by my past either. I also don't know many guys who, if they knew what her marriage is like, would sign up to be her husband. I actually feel bad for the guy she is married to. I would never in a million years want to be her husband and if that makes closed minded then so be it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Another thing I want to add is that this is why some guys think the way they do. It isn't because they are trying to oppress women or be sexist or be abusive or judgmental. It is because they don't want to be in the same position as that woman's husband. It is purely out of self interest and protecting our lives from heartbreak rather than any desire to hurt women. At the end of the day if you don't look out for yourself who will and looking our for yourself isn't always PC. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Can you not understand that her behavior with the random hookups or whatever might not be THE BEST for HER??? Once again this guy is looking at his girlfriend as a SEXUAL OBJECT. A THING that exists to do something for him, who would be the "subject." And he's pissed and evidently hurt too that "it" is not functioning as he'd like it too. No . . . the way I see it is that the more sexually uninhibited a woman is, the more open (at least physically) she is and that is an indicator of greater attraction, trust, and bonding with her partner. Inhibition is a barrier that gets in the way of intimacy, so it makes no sense that a woman would be more inhibited with a man who she supposedly cares more about than the miriad of ONS partners with whom she was considerably less inhibited. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kilgore Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 A woman who has slept around - it says nothing about her ability to be compassionate, love, be loyal or the negative opposite of any of those. I certainly have things in my past I am not proud of that I would rather never be used against me 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Morning Wood Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) For me personally, I don't care about a woman's number or if she had a bunch of one stands. However, having dated well into my 40s it's been my experience and those of my friends... Women who [had sex with] a bunch of guys do not make good partners. For my friends and I, it's sort of like dating girls with fake boobs. I prefer a woman that doesn't have them but I am not opposed too them either. What our 20+ years of experience has taught us, it's not fake boobs that we have an issues with. It's who they are attached too. Same thing with women who have slept around alot. Not opposed to it at all. However, they usually come with a ton of baggage, emtionial issues and every single one of them has cheated on either me or my friends. I would also add that [promiscuous men] are just as bad based on what my friends and I have seen and what I hear from girl friends of mine who dated / married them. Of all the marriages my friends and I know of where either one or both people slept with a lot of people, 100% infedality rate and all but 1 has divorced (they now have an open marriage). Are there exceptions to the rules? Of course! There seems to be plenty of them on this forum. It could be the 250 - 300 women we dated who slept around a lot was just bad luck. At this point, we all have a bad taste in our mouth so we don't even bother. I will also add, my female friends have had the exact same experience with men who slept around a lot too. It's not gender specific. Edited August 31, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Language and redact response to deleted post 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts