Friends?

[Clockwatching]

Hi all,

 

I've recently instigated restricted contact with my MM, we were trying to be friends, we have a decent amount of physical distance between us so it's not so hard to stay away from each other. Especially for me as there's no way he'd find a reason to travel such a distance and be able to justify it.

 

When we were trying to be friends (it was too much for me so I broke off the physical side of the affair) I still found it too difficult as we were having too much contact. We would text morning, noon and night, and I found my feelings just didn't go and I couldn't move on. We tried this for three months, I saw him once during this time and all was fine and we for once, didn't have sex, kiss or anything, he was very respectful.

 

Has anyone had successful stories or unsuccessful stories of trying to be friends? I'm really trying to see whether it's possible or not or whether complete no contact is the only way to do it.

 

We have a great friendship, however I do feel that that's not all it is and that's where I stumble.. I'm not sure it's possible.

[privategal]

Only you can decide what would work.

Honestly that friendship for me always was painful. When it moves from I love you, I want you to hey buddy, and talks of his happiness and family...objectively I wanted that, to be a basic friend like we were before feelings came in...and I wanted a happy sucessful marriage for him...but If I were HONEST I had feelings...so I was subconsciously looking between the lines to still feel loved, for hidden attraction on his end maybe?

Really tough to put that genie back in a bottle, unsay and unhear those words, delete a romantic bond.

We slipped back in a few times, we were sucessful at plain froendship sometimes.

Its a huge gray area. Its better imo to truly move on by dead bolting that friendship door in order to fully heal and close the chapter.

Im sure there are instances it works but it takes SO much more work and alot of hurt where natural friendship untainted by romantic feelings takes little effort.

[Grapesofwrath]

I think it's possible, but takes time. For me, it works better to not have a whole lot to do with each other for quite a while, let things heal, then maybe try a friendship.

 

With married men, I think it's also key to know if he is still lying in order to spend time with you. If you are able to be friends out in the open, that's healthier. If he is still deleting your texts, calling you in secret, and having to tell lies in order to spend time together, then you've simply changed the type of affair you are having. It's still an affair, though.

[Clockwatching]

Thank you so much for your replies, it's such a relief to find people to be able to talk about this with and not be completely blasted for the affair that you've had..

 

I'd like it to be possible for us, but I think that you just nailed the crux of the problem: I'm still a secret, a secret friend maybe but a secret all the same. I've always lived an open life before now and had no secrets, and whilst he's not a secret in mine I'm definitely one in his. In that way, it's still a betrayal and still an affair (at least, to me, I think he's in denial about that and justifies it to himself because we no longer have sex), and I still feel awful about it.

 

On top of that I still have feelings for him, so I can't see a way for it to work.. there's no way that he could un-make me a secret.

 

This stinks. But, I'm tired of feeling this way, I don't want to be anyones dirty little secret and not feel worthy of being a real part of someone's life. It's not what I had planned for myself.

[Clockwatching]

And privategal, I think you have a great point too, the endless searching between the lines when you still have feelings, the trying to ignore the romantic link.. it's so hard to do. I find myself sometimes being ok, other times most definitely not ok. Either way, it's living a fantasy in my head that can never be real.

 

I read a great point on here by someone who said that the reason they're so hard to let go of is because you don't let go of them in a natural way, it's not because you're sick of each other, it's not because they've made you angry, my MM is lovely, respectful of my feelings, has never pushed or manipulated. But I have to let him go because of my feelings making it too damned painful.

 

Of course, he's not lovely in respect of his wife and doing what he has done with me - I think there's a lot of repressed hurt and anger that's led him to an affair, they've disconnected over the years. So in that regard he's shown her a lot of disrespect, but I think there's a lot of that in their relationship. There are two sides to every coin I guess.

 

The important thing I suppose, is to reclaim your own feelings of worth and value and unhinge yourself from a situation that causes nothing but heartache.. easier said than done.

[privategal]

Thank you so much for your replies, it's such a relief to find people to be able to talk about this with and not be completely blasted for the affair that you've had..

 

I'd like it to be possible for us, but I think that you just nailed the crux of the problem: I'm still a secret, a secret friend maybe but a secret all the same. I've always lived an open life before now and had no secrets, and whilst he's not a secret in mine I'm definitely one in his. In that way, it's still a betrayal and still an affair (at least, to me, I think he's in denial about that and justifies it to himself because we no longer have sex), and I still feel awful about it.

 

On top of that I still have feelings for him, so I can't see a way for it to work.. there's no way that he could un-make me a secret.

 

This stinks. But, I'm tired of feeling this way, I don't want to be anyones dirty little secret and not feel worthy of being a real part of someone's life. It's not what I had planned for myself.

 

This exactly. Though the 'relationship' aspect that eventually unfolded was not disclosed to my spouse for obvious reasons...the friendship was. It was out in the open, we could ralk, text or email with MY spouses approval.

I would have liked to set boundaries, take some time to let the feelings go and then work on resuming a normal friendship at some juncture.

The issue is I am a secret from HIS spouse which is horrible, I don't need to be but he cant go back and undo that..but also I have feelings too. I don't want those feelings though.

It was SO cool without them before it all got out of hand.

Sooo...I ask myself...would one less friend affect my life that bad?

[JPMC]

Nope, doesn't work. I always wanted more, emotional to physical. Glad I've moved on.

[dubliner]

It's been around a year an a half since CM and I said we would just be friends, we do have business dealings together so impossible to go full NC.

To be honest ..I've never felt like hes my friend in that whole 18 months. I'm excluded from his social events, I'm ignored at social events we do both attend, I can't call him up in an emergency or just to chat, pop by his house, meet up with him and his family.. I'm not a friend.

The continued contact is like picking a scab, the more time apart the easier it is to distance my feelings but when we work together it's like pressing the reset button. Back and forth in limbo.

NC may not seem like the best idea right now but if you still have feelings for him then in my experience, contact just keeps that flame alight .

[Clockwatching]

Any time you're a secret from anyone I think it's going to cause problems, who wants to feel like that?! It feels so odd knowing so much about his life, his family, all of it, I'm a complete stranger to them, but I know so much, but I can't call him, can't meet up, can't do anything that a normal 'friend' would. Besides which, I'm not really a friend anyway because I have feelings for him and I know that he wouldn't have stopped our affair any time soon, how is that a friendship? So much conflict.

 

It's all a cover up for what really is an emotional crutch, a world of escapism for them and a fantasy for the affair partner. Not a healthy way to live if you want integrity and emotional freedom.

 

Maybe in another life we would've been friends, or partners, or neither. I'm inclined to believe that I met him during a phase in life where he was in transition and in a lot of ways I assisted that, and he opened my eyes to a lot too, some very good stuff which I value immensely, but in this situation it can't have longevity by it's very nature.

 

Maybe it's just time to appreciate the time we had and close the door and wish him the best.

[Clockwatching]

It's been around a year an a half since CM and I said we would just be friends, we do have business dealings together so impossible to go full NC.

To be honest ..I've never felt like hes my friend in that whole 18 months. I'm excluded from his social events, I'm ignored at social events we do both attend, I can't call him up in an emergency or just to chat, pop by his house, meet up with him and his family.. I'm not a friend.

The continued contact is like picking a scab, the more time apart the easier it is to distance my feelings but when we work together it's like pressing the reset button. Back and forth in limbo.

NC may not seem like the best idea right now but if you still have feelings for him then in my experience, contact just keeps that flame alight .

 

I can totally relate Dubliner, it's only happened a couple of times that we've been in a situation that I've had to be ignored because I'm the secret, but my God it hurt like hell. It seems like just another way I'm trying to fool myself to believe that we could ever just be friends.

 

It must be awful having to work with him and have to deal with that regularly, I cannot imagine and my heart goes out to you - for me the couple of times it happened it felt like a huge slap in the face. As unrealistic as my feelings were as I knew exactly what we were doing and why I had to be ignored, it's just another aspect of feeling devalued in this situation I guess.

[MissBee]

Hi all,

 

I've recently instigated restricted contact with my MM, we were trying to be friends, we have a decent amount of physical distance between us so it's not so hard to stay away from each other. Especially for me as there's no way he'd find a reason to travel such a distance and be able to justify it.

 

When we were trying to be friends (it was too much for me so I broke off the physical side of the affair) I still found it too difficult as we were having too much contact. We would text morning, noon and night, and I found my feelings just didn't go and I couldn't move on. We tried this for three months, I saw him once during this time and all was fine and we for once, didn't have sex, kiss or anything, he was very respectful.

 

Has anyone had successful stories or unsuccessful stories of trying to be friends? I'm really trying to see whether it's possible or not or whether complete no contact is the only way to do it.

 

We have a great friendship, however I do feel that that's not all it is and that's where I stumble.. I'm not sure it's possible.

 

It's rare that most people can move from relationship to friendship with former romantic partners, much less affair partners, who either plan to stay married/in another relationship and where the reason you broke up isn't because you're over them but because of the drama of the A. Friendship doesn't do much to alleviate all those problems.

 

I tried. It didn't work. I needed one full year of NC away from him. We did get a chance to try at a normal relationship, which also didn't work. Now, we're friends in a loose sense of the word. But the variables in my case were that: he ended the relationship where we were having the A, we tried at a normal relationship, there is also distance between us, but even still he is the one who always tries to make it be more than it is and he really can't be my platonic friend, even though I think I could be his, so no, we don't really have a friendship.

 

I can't say I am TRULY friends with any of my exes. I may speak to them occasionally, esp if things ended amicably, but it's not in any real sense of the word a friendship and with most of them, we broke up and went our separate ways and are living separate lives and are not in contact, it's nothing malicious, it's just the way it usually goes, which can be a healthy thing, clinging to friendship is usually something that prolongs the pain of a breakup. Texting morning, noon and night is just an EA, as in general, while I text my friends, I do NOT have any friends, male or female, that I text all day with. When I am texting someone all throughout the day it's usually a SO/someone I'm romantically interested in, not a normal male friend or female friend. So if you cut off the sex but still are emotionally using them and them you and you're in contact all day, that's not a friendship. I think you should try full NC. If friendship is meant to be, see how you feel after you're over the romantic part, chances are, most of us also get over wanting to be friends when we are truly over them romantically and our life has moved on OR if a friendship can occur it has more of a chance to be genuine. However, usually when you're not over them is when you are hellbent on being "friends" and it's usually a very conflicted and forced thing (hence the need for the questions about how to be friends, as come on, your normal friends are your friends organically, no special manual or restrictions needed, so the fact that to be friends with MM requires this is a sign that it's not really genuine ).

Edited August 24, 2015 by MissBee

[Clockwatching]

I agree MissBee, although our friendship I would say is real and genuine, it's still laced with romantic attachment as we've never had the time apart to truly let go. Certainly from my side, I know that's true and my feelings are still there.

 

I wasn't really asking 'how' to be friends, lol, I was asking if it was possible to continue having contact and work through the difficult feelings and unattach to have just a friendship in the end, if that makes any sense. I guess in the past I've closed the door quickly before, and the past few years I've spent more time working through things with people rather than being so quick to walk away, which I acknowledge is likely what I'll have to do here.

 

I'd like to be able to work through it, but in all honesty I'm not sure it's possible from my side and it involves too much heartache, knocks to my self esteem, and too many secrets.

 

He maintains that he can be my platonic friend, but the amount of contact and the depth that we have, to me it's an emotional affair. I have other friends that I text every day, but nothing like how much I text him, hence why I think he's in denial that it's platonic and not just downgraded into purely an emotional affair.

 

It's a situation that will always be conflicted, which is what makes the decision so damned hard.

[MissBee]

I agree MissBee, although our friendship I would say is real and genuine, it's still laced with romantic attachment as we've never had the time apart to truly let go. Certainly from my side, I know that's true and my feelings are still there.

 

I wasn't really asking 'how' to be friends, lol, I was asking if it was possible to continue having contact and work through the difficult feelings and unattach to have just a friendship in the end, if that makes any sense. I guess in the past I've closed the door quickly before, and the past few years I've spent more time working through things with people rather than being so quick to walk away, which I acknowledge is likely what I'll have to do here.

 

I'd like to be able to work through it, but in all honesty I'm not sure it's possible from my side and it involves too much heartache, knocks to my self esteem, and too many secrets.

 

He maintains that he can be my platonic friend, but the amount of contact and the depth that we have, to me it's an emotional affair. I have other friends that I text every day, but nothing like how much I text him, hence why I think he's in denial that it's platonic and not just downgraded into purely an emotional affair.

 

It's a situation that will always be conflicted, which is what makes the decision so damned hard.

 

It still goes back to my point though: organic friendship doesn't entail all this conflict. It just happens, and is enjoyable.

 

In this case it's a conflict and mismatched desires and all of this.

 

I definitely think that full NC is best and if a normal friendship can occur later then go for it. But for now, trying to work through a conflicted friendship esp when you have feelings doesn't make much sense. Also, if you plan on moving on emotionally, dating others, I think most people will find it downright strange that their current bf/gf is friends with their former affair partner. I think many people could potentially accept being friendly with a normal ex but an affair partner might raise a whole other set of questions.

 

Which to me comes down to: is maintaining a friendship with MM really worth it? Like I said, from experience, it's only when you're not over your ex when you make it a big production to be friends, but when you actually get over them that desire decreases significantly, it's like if it happens sure, if not, no skin off my nose either way. And it makes sense, as usually if you move on to new relationships, you don't want your ex affair partner or ex-boyfriend in the background as your bff. Some lines cannot be uncrossed unfortunately. Many of us date and by virtue of being together and speaking everyday we become attached and also have a friendship but usually the friendship goes hand in hand with the relationship and when the relationship ends we can't usually just cherry pick out the friendship...but we usually have this irrational desire to do so when things end, however, when we heal, we let go of that desire, so I'm saying your desire to be friends is likely a product of you not being over it and chances are once you start getting over it the whole friends question will not be such an issue.

[Clockwatching]

You're very right, the more clear everyone's points are the more clear it becomes to me that I don't think either of us are over it and can't be whilst this continues in any form that keeps him from being authentically there with his wife, and me being authentic to myself and to anyone that I might be with in the future.

 

It's amazing what our minds will do when we're trying to convince ourselves out of something that we know will hurt and involves loss isn't it? It's like the old saying - pain is unavoidable, suffering is optional - and there's been way too much of the suffering going on I think.

 

My god though I will miss him, but not the pain, when that eventually goes.

[movingon123]

 

My god though I will miss him, but not the pain, when that eventually goes.

 

As someone who is over a month out from a d-day, when we were only about that much time away from dialing things down to a friendship, I can tell you that I miss him terribly and am so sad that I can't even call him much less see him as a friend which we could have authentically done if there had been no d-day .

 

All I can say is good for you for getting out before a d-day. It is truly the most gut-wrenching thing and I'm so sorry for the BW. At least you still have the option of friendship and hopefully always will. I like to think my ex-mm and I would have been able to maintain one.

[Artie Lang]

if i may ask, why is it so important to keep a former AP as a friend? what can they(he/she) possibly bring to the table that a good and trusted platonic friend can't.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Artie Lang

[Lady2163]

Absolutely, you can be friends. It just depends on what your definition and expectations are of a friend.

 

Many years ago I was in charge of 50 people. One night at 200 AM one of my employees who was only in his 30s had a heart attack at work. I get the phone call to come and replace him, the ambulance had taken him to the hospital. The entire time I'm driving into work, I'm calling my boss and paging him. No answer. I get to work, calm the employee down who had to perform CPR and the others on shift and keep trying my boss. He finally called me back at 900 AM. I was furious and spouting a lot of anger. He had intentionally turned off his phone and pager. He simply asked me, "What did you want me to do at 200 AM? I like him, he's a good worker, but I wasn't going to work his shift or go to the hospital at 200 AM." I realized then I just wanted someone else to be panicked along with me.

 

I'm able to talk to my XMM pretty much anytime I want during the day. We live four hours apart. Every time there has been a problem after regular hours and I want to call him, I stop and think about what he could do about it, anyway.

 

We still mail each other birthday and Christmas presents. Some weeks we talk every day, sometimes we go 2-3 weeks without talking. There have been times when he has done a public presentation I've gone to them without telling him until afterwards. Our friendship is a secret, but it is still a warm friendship.

 

Oh - we can't see each other. The sex was THAT good for both of us. It would be way too easy to fall back into it again.

 

I genuinely want him to be happy and successful. I want him to have great family time. I'm not jealous of quality time with his wife. I want to believe that he is satisfied with her 99% of the time. I don't want him to risk his success and happiness on me or any other woman by having another affair.

[bathtub-row]

xMM and I had a tremendous friendship. It's actually what our relationship was built on, and why it was so hard to let go of. But texting, emailing, and calling all the time is keeping the connection open, occupying your time, and keeping you from moving on -- as you've already discovered.

 

It's really nice to think we can maintain the friendship but it's extremely difficult to pull off. The truth is, it's very difficult for men and women to have friendships, especially after a romantic relationship. xMM and I hardly speak to one another anymore, although I still consider him a friend. I find it sad that we lost what we had, but it was destined to happen. I know you want to hang on to what the two of you had but it is keeping you hooked to him. You're never going to break free if you don't cut ties.

[Sunburst]

I was thinking about ''friends'' option too. But I don't think it is possible, unless you are over him. If you have feelings it's a torture, because it hurts to hold everything in and just be chat buddies. There were times when me and xMM would just chat for weeks and not see each other, because of me trying to lose the attachment, but it would always get to the point where hints about some time together would come up.

Deep inside, you don't want to be his friend. It would eat you up inside, sadness and emotions would build up and with time you would be hurting a lot. No progress of healing. I understand your wish to keep the contact going, cause it keeps your heart from breaking to pieces. It's very hard to do it while you still have an option to avoid that. Sometimes it is possible to keep the contact until you shift your focus to other things slowly. But are you able to go on with your life and not check your phone for any news from him? If your main daily focus is still a message from him I believe you should disconnect.

I had to end our contact (nearly 3 weeks NC), I've felt something is dying inside me more and more. I admit I just want to talk to him and I feel so weak. Then I remind myself he is where he wants to be and I don't want secret chats from secret accounts. Compare two situations:

1. How much does it hurt to chat everyday and watch his life without you in it? Thinking you're not there, feeling like you're not worthy enough. He's there having a nice weekend at home and you're thinking what, why and how.

2. Hurting you had to let him go, but not twisting the knife everyday, giving that love to other people around you and yourself.

I would say both hurts as hell, but which one is not dragging you back?

[Popsicle]

Low contact is your answer.

[ArtsAndCrafts]

I do not believe a real friendship is possible with a former AP. It's just another dysfunctional form of attachment. It's inappropriate, especially if you're still a secret. It's not healthy. I've never seen this work out in a healthy way.

[Lady2163]

I do not believe a real friendship is possible with a former AP. It's just another dysfunctional form of attachment. It's inappropriate, especially if you're still a secret. It's not healthy. I've never seen this work out in a healthy way.

 

Do you have a time frame? I mean I just started to ease myself away from my best friend of 31 years. Does that mean it didn't work out as a friendship?

 

My health is in okay shape. But I'm probably only going to live another 15-20 years. Assuming I don't develop dementia and forget who he is, do we consider it a friendship that worked until one of us dies?

[ChancesAre24]

I do not believe a real friendship is possible with a former AP. It's just another dysfunctional form of attachment. It's inappropriate, especially if you're still a secret. It's not healthy. I've never seen this work out in a healthy way.

 

I agree with this 100%.

[dubliner]

Do you have a time frame? I mean I just started to ease myself away from my best friend of 31 years. Does that mean it didn't work out as a friendship?

 

My health is in okay shape. But I'm probably only going to live another 15-20 years. Assuming I don't develop dementia and forget who he is, do we consider it a friendship that worked until one of us dies?

 

The question is is your MM honest with his W about his contact with you?

Does she know you still have contact? Does she know the gifts are from his former xap? Does he still lie to her?

If so, then it's not healthy, for her, she would still be being deceived.

[Lady2163]

The question is is your MM honest with his W about his contact with you?

Does she know you still have contact? Does she know the gifts are from his former xap? Does he still lie to her?

If so, then it's not healthy, for her, she would still be being deceived.

 

We never had a DDAY.

 

And the friend of 31 years I mentioned is female.

 

I don't know that my platonic male friends tell their spouses whenever we talk. I don't think they are lying intentionally, I'm just not sure it is something men do. I know when I was married, I didn't tell my husband everyone I talked to in day.

 

This seems to be a fall back position. By your reasoning, the only way we could be "friends" and be considered successful friends is if she knew about his affair and every time we talked and everything we talked about.

 

And upon review, our gifts to each other are often kind of lame. Don't get me wrong, they are things we want and often need and are happy to get. But, it isn't like I'm framing a poster size picture of a beautiful sunset we watched together for him to display in his office. These are more exciting things like second phone chargers or books on favorite topics. Oftentimes it is gift cards.

 

My belief is that it is a successful friendship if we talk to each other, share life events, joys and sorrows without NEEDING to share them. I have called hi, for advice, but it was business advice, not emotional crisis advice. The presents are more money than I spend on gifts for my platonic male friends, but not enough to financially make me budget them officially.

 

I have military buddies I will probably never see again in my life and I haven't seen them in almost 30 years. Does that mean they aren't my friends?