Seriously Considering Divorcing

[AngryGromit]

Me and my wife are in our mid-forties, we been married for 9 years to my Wife, no children. We have a pretty good life together, both have successful careers, have a big house (and a big mortgage), decent cars, we get along well, but she’s not as affectionate as I would like. If I try to cuddle with her in bed she says she’s too hot and pushes me away. When I touch her affectionately she complains that I’m groping her all the time, I don’t consider touching my Wife a few times a day all the time. Her sex drive is less than mine, often she says she’s not in the mood, occasionally she will say I’ll do it for you, but she’s not an interactive lover, it’s the hurry up are you done yet attitude. In a rare occasion she wants sex, sex is good, but it’s a rare once a month thing. At best we have sex twice a week, usually less. Frankly I’m tired of fighting for crumbs. I feel there’s plenty of women out there that would be thrilled to have someone like me that isn’t a bum.

 

Last week we have a big fight. I woke up horny as hell and asked her if we could have sex, she said she wasn’t in the mood, but after bothering her for a minute of two, she angrily gave in and said Fine, I’ll do it if you really want it. She pulled down her pants and I took care of business. She got up afterward, stomped around the room and left. Later she blew up at me, how I was so inconsiderate for insisting on sex when she obviously didn’t want it. How I’m not entitled to have sex whenever I want just because were married. There must be something wrong with me, many couples only have sex once a month, it not like she says home all day doing nothing while I work all day, and on and on. My Wife is a mental Health therapist, which pretty much ensures I never win any arguments. I’m out classed in the argument arena.

 

Anyway she said if I really wanted sex all the time, go out and find yourself some Bimbo and we’ll get divorced. The idea is not new to me, I actually been thinking about it for some time now. I was tempted to say great idea and leave, but that would be a financial disaster for me. I bit my tongue, said what I had to, to make up with her and that’s settled.

 

But it’s not. Not for me, I think this is the last straw. I’m planning on staying with her only long enough to set up a separate bank account, accumulate some money, get my own place, slowly move my belongings there, close any joint credit accounts and go to work one day and not come home.

 

I was thinking about it, if I would tell her I’d pay the mortgage and she could still live in the house and pay rent, until we could sell the house and get divorced legally. I would also maintain her health insurance, which she needs because she’s self employed and to get her own insurance would be very expensive.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

Edited August 25, 2015 by AngryGromit

[StalwartMind]

While perhaps not crucial for everyone, having a similar sex drive can make that area of a relationship be smooth. On a curious note, have you actually talked to her about how she feels when it comes to intimacy? Could something be bothering her, that would make her lose interest. It's not unlikely if she has something on her mind, it can make anyone be less receptive.

 

Arguments are not about who wins, this one always baffles me to hear. If you are two sensible adults who care about each other, then you should be wanting to solve your conflict, without the need to even work yourself up to a level where you enter the "arena" that she apparently is the gladiator champion of.

 

I think you'll hear arguments from both sides about being unreasonable or not, I feel it's hard to say without knowing more to the situation. Ideally none of us should be feeling as if we are lacking something in a relationship, but if that's the case and it can't be worked out, then yeah it's perhaps time to consider other options. I would however always recommend people to be civil and honest about their thoughts. While I can understand her feeling pressured, and giving you sex against her own will, you are already in hostile territory, it shouldn't be like that. The comment about going to find yourself a bimbo, sure is harsh, but if you for a moment try to look at things from her perspective, perhaps you can find reason as to why she feels a lack of appetite for anything intimate.

 

You say your relationship is good, you get a long well, I guess that affection means more than your 9 years together? I'm not one to judge, but I just wonder if you'll see yourself happy with someone else who may give you more in that department, but what about everything else. I guess most of the answers you seek you can answer yourself. I can understand frustration from both of you, I just feel it's worth considering things long-term. What if one of you lost the ability to have sex, what if you did, would you still be together then? Perhaps a question not many ask themselves, but I think in situations such as these, it's good to ask yourself a lot of things, to determine where you actually stand. It's difficult to take everything into consideration by yourself sometimes, so it can help to have others share their view.

[AngryGromit]

Could something be bothering her, that would make her lose interest.

 

She takes anti-depression medication that affects her sex drive, so it's not completely her fault. Regardless of the reason, I think I've spent more than enough time trying to make this relationship work. To be told by her I'm somehow abnormal that I want sex more than her is a huge insult to me. I really fail to see any resolution to our conflict. I want sex and she has no interest. We did have discussions about talking to her doctor about what she can do to increase her sex drive, but nothing ever becomes of it. I guess I could go off and have sex with other women, but it's really only a short term solution, I think I would be better off in the long run without her and with someone else with a better matching sex drive.

 

I'm not one to judge, but I just wonder if you'll see yourself happy with someone else who may give you more in that department, but what about everything else.

 

Call me a dreamer, but I have to believe there's someone else out there that can be a better match overall. While we do get along, we do not share a lot of common interests. I tried to get her involved in some of my interests, biking for one, brought her a nice bike, she rode it twice, it's been in our shed the last 8 years. Her idea of travel is a 4 star hotel, mine, hiking and back country camping, She doesn't even collect anything. She expressed interest in puzzles, I brought a few, we never finished one. I think the warning signs where there for a long time, I just choose to ignore them.

[Mr. Lucky]

My Wife is a mental Health therapist, which pretty much ensures I never win any arguments. I’m out classed in the argument arena.

 

I'd be very tempted to get her out of her comfort zone and into MC where someone else sets the discussion tone. It sounds like sex has become a power struggle, the focus for the anger and resentments in your relationship. Obviously, a broken dynamic.

 

Are you open to counseling? Is she?

 

I'm also curious about how you got together. How was sex and intimacy early on? What's changed since then?

 

Mr. Lucky

[emi]

What are you waitting for?

You deserve more than that. Maybe you will find better woman who doesnt take sex as a chores and make you feel bad everytime you want it

[PegNosePete]

Are you open to counseling? Is she?

Yes, this. Seems like a perfect situation for MC. This is exactly the kind of issues they resolve. Do it sooner rather than later because things are only getting worse on their own.

 

I woke up horny as hell and asked her if we could have sex

This may seem like "women 101" but you don't ask a woman if she will have sex. That is the most unromantic thing you can possibly do and a sure-fire way to get her right out of the mood.

 

after bothering her for a minute of two, she angrily gave in and said Fine, I’ll do it if you really want it. She pulled down her pants and I took care of business.

Dude WTF. I'm with her here, you used her as a sperm bank.

 

Anyway she said if I really wanted sex all the time, go out and find yourself some Bimbo and we’ll get divorced.

Now this shows a real problem with your relationship. The fact that she said that is really telling of how she actually feels about you. One does not use the D word unless one is serious.

 

But it’s not. Not for me, I think this is the last straw. I’m planning on staying with her only long enough to set up a separate bank account, accumulate some money, get my own place, slowly move my belongings there, close any joint credit accounts and go to work one day and not come home.

Woah, that's a bit harsh. She hasn't really done anything wrong has she? I mean she's not withholding sex just to annoy you, she's got an issue caused by her depression and meds. And you're goign to dump her in the harshest way possible. Doesn't she deserve better than that after 9 years marriage?

 

I was thinking about it, if I would tell her I’d pay the mortgage and she could still live in the house and pay rent, until we could sell the house and get divorced legally.

That's pretty weird. If you're married then there's no way in hell that you can force her to pay "rent" to live in the marital home, even if it's in your sole name. If you're decided on divorce then you should definitely see a lawyer who can look at all the figures and explain to you what is "reasonable" given your financial situation. It never hurts to get informed, and many lawyers do a free no-obligation initial consultation. The most common advice is DO NOT MOVE OUT, you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

[elaine567]

She has sex with you once a month that is good and enjoyable for both.

That is where you need to build from, NOT demand sex and use your wife like a whore.

"Please miss, can I climb on, and if I can't you are not being fair, I am you husband and I need sex ... whine, whine, whine" Ugh!

 

And NOT after you have just had a big fight and she hates you anyway and she feels resentful and angry towards you. Make up sex can be great, but the way you went about it NOT good.

 

Women need emotional connection and they need to love and to feel loved to give good sex. Treating her like a whore like you did, makes her feel angry, upset and she will hate you for it. That will never get you where you want to be.

YOU reap what you sow.

 

I personally think you are throwing a lot away here, and with MC and with a better attitude to your marriage, I think this is solvable.

 

BUT OK if you have checked out completely we get it, but for God's sake act like a man with a successful career, discuss it, agree terms and sort it out. She is NOT an abuser, you are not in fear for your life, so what on earth is all this devious "go to work one day and not come home" stuff all about?

Don't just sneak out, act like an adult.

[AngryGromit]

BUT OK if you have checked out completely we get it, but for God's sake act like a man with a successful career, discuss it, agree terms and sort it out. She is NOT an abuser, you are not in fear for your life, so what on earth is all this devious "go to work one day and not come home" stuff all about?

Don't just sneak out, act like an adult.

 

Point taken, I'm in the earily stages of planning, but what ever I do, I want to have the freedom to walk out the door if I want to and not have move in with my parents. I want the cash to get my own place right away. And that requires saving some money up.

 

That's pretty weird. If you're married then there's no way in hell that you can force her to pay "rent" to live in the marital home, even if it's in your sole name. If you're decided on divorce then you should definitely see a lawyer who can look at all the figures and explain to you what is "reasonable" given your financial situation. It never hurts to get informed, and many lawyers do a free no-obligation initial consultation. The most common advice is DO NOT MOVE OUT, you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Our mortgage is 3k a month, as things work now, I pay the mortgage (it's in both our names) and she pays pretty much everything else like car payments, utilities, etc. I do not make enough money to move out and continue paying the mortgage. She uses part of the house for her private pratice therapy office, if she wants to continue to live there, she is going to have to pay part of the mortgage, weather it by paying me "rent", or paying half of the mortgage. The alternative is I stop paying the mortgage, it goes into default and eventually the sherriff knocks on the door to evict her.

 

As for "DO NOT MOVE OUT", I'm new to this divorce issue, it was my understanding that before you can file court papers to get a divorce in New Jersey, you have to maintain seperate residents for 18 months.

Edited August 25, 2015 by AngryGromit

[PegNosePete]

if she wants to continue to live there, she is going to have to pay part of the mortgage, weather it by paying me "rent", or paying half of the mortgage.

Says who? You? A judge might see it rather differently.

 

The alternative is I stop paying the mortgage, it goes into default and eventually the sherriff knocks on the door to evict her.

Yes, you lose all the equity in the house since they sell it at knock-down value and take all their fees out of it, and you can never get another mortgage, bank loan, credit card, or cell phone ever again.

 

Deliberately ruining your own credit rating is not wise.

 

As for "DO NOT MOVE OUT", I'm new to this divorce issue, it was my understanding that before you can file court papers to get a divorce in New Jersey, you have to maintain seperate residents for 18 months.

I wouldn't know about that, but before moving out you should certainly speak to an expert (ie. lawyer) about the financial implications of doing so. The court will only tell you what's legal, not what's advisable.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm in the early stages of planning

 

Planning to do what? Moving towards divorce or working to recover your marriage are obviously different courses of action and can't be done on an effective basis simultaneously.

 

The tone of your posts implies you're heading towards dissolution and only started a thread here so you could be told you've been wronged and your actions are justified. Even though some have tried to point out the other side, you seem more interested in estate planning than marital recovery.

 

So, if you're that unhappy, see no other way out and have no interest in making an effort, divorce probably the best thing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Satu]

Get some MC before you make any BIG decisions.

[OnlyBelieve]

It sounds like things have been really rough. I think you should not let go of your marriage so easily.

 

Could it be possible that she's in the beginning stages of menopause?

Have she spoken to her doctor about the side effects of her medication? Maybe there's another alternative for her.

 

I agree with some of the other post in regards to seeking counseling. Maybe you should really consider marriage counseling.

 

Don't give up on your marriage. It's not an easy path but it's really worth the investment. In the meantime, go out on dates or take mini getaways. That may help out on the romance part of your relationship.

[AngryGromit]

Planning to do what? Moving towards divorce or working to recover your marriage are obviously different courses of action and can't be done on an effective basis simultaneously.

 

Planning as in learning the divorce process, arranging finances to ease the transition, what steps to protect my interests, etc. As for planning different courses of action , sure I can do both simultaneously, I can plan all I want, until I execute said plan, I'm really not committed to either one.

[Mr. Lucky]

Planning as in learning the divorce process, arranging finances to ease the transition, what steps to protect my interests, etc. As for planning different courses of action , sure I can do both simultaneously, I can plan all I want, until I execute said plan, I'm really not committed to either one.

 

I'd argue that, given the mindset required for success, planning for divorce and recommitting to your marriage are mutually exclusive paths.

 

You may disagree, wish you luck either way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2nd tyme]

it was my understanding that before you can file court papers to get a divorce in New Jersey, you have to maintain seperate residents for 18 months.

 

I'm in NJ, recently got divorced here, and can tell you that this is not true. Also, your concept of 'setting aside' some money for yourself does not make much sense, as at least half of it is going to be her money anyway. I think you need to talk to a lawyer and get educated on how this works. Good luck!

[pteromom]

she’s not as affectionate as I would like. If I try to cuddle with her in bed she says she’s too hot and pushes me away. When I touch her affectionately she complains that I’m groping her all the time, I don’t consider touching my Wife a few times a day all the time.

 

Listen to what she is REALLY saying here. What she is really saying is that you are not considering her feelings. What has she asked you for? Do you try to meet HER needs? Maybe her idea of showing love is helping her with housework, or taking her to a romantic dinner, or dancing with her, or surprising her with her favorite dessert.

 

Maybe when you cuddle her or grope her, it always leads to sex, and maybe she feels that all you want her for is sex.

 

You don't consider touching her a few times a day all the time, but SHE DOES. Your job as a husband is to learn WHY, not take it as an insult and start dreaming about bimbos who would be at your sexual beck and call.

 

Her sex drive is less than mine, often she says she’s not in the mood, occasionally she will say I’ll do it for you, but she’s not an interactive lover, it’s the hurry up are you done yet attitude. In a rare occasion she wants sex, sex is good, but it’s a rare once a month thing. At best we have sex twice a week, usually less.

 

OK, so start where you are. You have good sex once a month. When you have that good sex, bring her some flowers. Be loving and sweet. Tell her how wonderful it was. Act satisfied. Laugh with her.

 

Then (and this is the important part!) if you are horny again 2 days later, and she says no, say "OK. I love you!" and LET IT GO. Go take care of things yourself and continue to be kind and sweet to her.

 

Frankly I’m tired of fighting for crumbs. I feel there’s plenty of women out there that would be thrilled to have someone like me that isn’t a bum.

 

Maybe. But it depends on WHY your wife isn't wanting sex. If it is truly the meds and that's all, then yes, maybe you could find a woman who is all you dream of. BUT - if it is the pattern in your relationship that has led to this dynamic, then it will be the same, because you will bring the same attitude and behaviors into the next relationship. So you will start with a woman who loves sex, who slowly becomes resentful and feels used, and she will start saying NO too,

 

I woke up horny as hell and asked her if we could have sex, she said she wasn’t in the mood, but after bothering her for a minute of two, she angrily gave in and said Fine, I’ll do it if you really want it.

 

Why "bother her" for a minute or two? She said NO. Respect it!!!!

 

She pulled down her pants and I took care of business. She got up afterward, stomped around the room and left. Later she blew up at me, how I was so inconsiderate for insisting on sex when she obviously didn’t want it. How I’m not entitled to have sex whenever I want just because were married.

 

Yeah, of course she was mad. She basically felt like she HAD to have sex. Didn't matter what she wanted.

 

Anyway she said if I really wanted sex all the time, go out and find yourself some Bimbo and we’ll get divorced. The idea is not new to me, I actually been thinking about it for some time now.

 

The only way you are going to get sex with a woman ALL THE TIME is by buying one.

 

I’m planning on staying with her only long enough to set up a separate bank account, accumulate some money, get my own place, slowly move my belongings there, close any joint credit accounts and go to work one day and not come home.

 

I was thinking about it, if I would tell her I’d pay the mortgage and she could still live in the house and pay rent, until we could sell the house and get divorced legally. I would also maintain her health insurance, which she needs because she’s self employed and to get her own insurance would be very expensive.

 

I don't think you are ready for divorce yet. I think if you try to do things differently in your marriage, you could get MUCH different results.

 

But if you want to divorce, then go see an attorney and find out what your legal/financial rights are. If you go this route, be fair to your wife, and just do what you need to do to get out.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

 

Yes. You sound like you believe you are entitled to sex on call.

[Curious-One]

I am usually the type that rarely believes that marriage counseling and "working it out" will actually work and usually tell people to divorce and stop being miserable in relationship.... but in this case i think having a talk with your wife when both of you are in good mood and discussing your sex life and marriage in general would probably help.

 

 

I mean your wife is clearly having personal issues...depression can take a toll on anyones life. Trying to find out why she is depressed talking to her , taking her out on fun action dates (horseback riding, playing pool, couple massage etc etc) will help her mental state and get her in the mood for sex in my opinion. I think depression meds should be used as last resort but unfortunately that is not the case.

 

Buying her a bike and saying here or a bunch of puzzles and saying here is not going to do the trick. She is depressed so she will need your support..and she needs that human connection.

 

Last thing i want to add is that normally i would say if she is not wanting to have sex with you and only wanting sex once a month she is either not attracted to you and/or getting it somewhere else so you should definitely divorce. However considering she is on depression meds and one of the common side affects for depression meds is for someone TO NOT WANT SEX then there is a great chance that she has not lost attraction to you and not cheating on you so you should atleast try to work on this.

 

IF i was in your situation i would try and do more fun things with her , talk to her about getting off the depression meds and actually fixing the underlying issues for the depression and this should fix all the issues.

 

IMO fix your wifes depression problem and it will fix your merrige.

[oldshirt]

I don't know if the OP is still following this thread or not but this is an interesting scenario that is probably going to have a few different perspectives and trains of thoughts on it.

 

I think there are a couple different issues playing into this. The medication issue is certainly one of them as certain antidepressants can effectively kill the libido to the point even Adam Levine couldn't catch her eye.

 

She's also getting to the age that menopause can be playing a role too.

 

And there are clearly some relationship issues taking place that have left her feeling used, disrespected and unappreciated and that will effectively kill off any desire that she may have had left.

 

The end result here is a marriage in crisis.

 

While the OP has come off sounding very self-centered and insensitive, his need for closeness and intimacy are legitimate and his frustration is likely the result of years of chronic frustration and rejection. That will take a toll on anyone.

 

And yes, her depression/medication/menopause may all be contributing factors, but at the end of the day he is still living with chronic dissatisfaction and frustration.

 

I think there is hope that they can work together and find a middle ground they can both live with, but both of them are going to have to compromise and give a little.

 

He is going to have to learn to back off and be more patient and understanding and perhaps learn quite a bit more on how to make her feel more comfortable and appreciated and he will need to learn some new seduction and romance skills.

 

But she is going to have to compromise too and realize that a healthy marriage needs romance and sexuality as part of its regular fabric to remain close and bonded.

 

If she wants to remain married with a husband that loves her and has a home and family life with her, she can't subject him to a life of chronic frustration and rejection - who wants to live with that????

 

She is going to have to address her health issues and look into other medication and treatment programs and work with him on how can provide her the environment and dynamics with which she can become more sexually responsive with him.

[oldshirt]

......now admittedly, this will require a lot of work, patience and compromise from both of them and at the moment it's questionable whether either of them are going to be willing to put in that effort.

 

My fear is that both of them may need the wake up call to snap them back into reality and make them face their issues with resolve.

 

It may come down to an Option A or Option B ultimatum.

 

Option A is going to the drawing board and working with a team of doctors, therapists and counselors to comprehensively peel through all these layers and get a level that both can live with.

 

And Option B Is divorce.

 

To get to the ultimatum point though a couple things need to happen to make it a legitimate choice.

 

One is he needs to calm down and be a decent person that she would even want to remain with and could find some attraction to and desire for once her medical/psychological/hormonal issues are addressed.

 

And also, she will need the wake up call that he is serious and will in fact leave her if she doesn't address these issues.

 

That means that he may need to actually separate from her and do the due diligence work in preparing for the divorce.

 

She may not realize the gravity of this situation untill she is living on her own paying her own rent and figuring out what she is going to do for insurance while he is out dating other women before she realizes that he was serious about needing marital intimacy.

[oldshirt]

.....so that I disagree that he cannot prepared for reconciliation and prepare for divorce at the same time.

 

I think there are cases where preparing for divorce and a new life without the spouse is what is needed to save a marriage and this is one of those cases.

 

There are certainly no guarentees and she may welcome the opportunity to divorce. If that is the case then he has his answer and he can proceed with the divorce in good faith knowing that the marriage is not meant to be.