Poor quality of men is turning women gay.

[carhill]

My only personal experience was with a male friend who was also a vendor whose wife had a lesbian affair and left him for the woman and they divorced. We were all in our 30's at the time. He was devastated; just a working stiff like me who sold machine tools. One of those guys you'd see in a poster for a family man. Poof. I have no idea if he was 'low quality' with women but I did go to more than one machine tool show with him and never saw him hitting on female colleagues or bar-hopping or any behavior I'd consider to be disrespectful to his marriage. Perhaps his wife simply found herself and that self was lesbian, IDK.

[Toodaloo]

I'll reiterate some of what's already been said (as an insider on team pink lol) - any woman who turns to women, no matter the reason, was already bisexual. I doubt "low quality men" influence a woman's innate sexuality. I suppose it's possible that a woman who believed she was utterly straight might switch teams due to frustration, but I really do believe she was bi all along regardless. And frustration with men might lead her to switch more quickly, but I don't believe it would be a wholesale change - she was bi on some level already and felt pushed to switch.

 

Other thing is that ime most women actually do have bisexual tendencies, so it seems like it would be much easier for a woman to make that transition than a man in general.

 

Just wanted to highlight that...

[GorillaTheater]

My only personal experience was with a male friend who was also a vendor whose wife had a lesbian affair and left him for the woman and they divorced. We were all in our 30's at the time. He was devastated; just a working stiff like me who sold machine tools. One of those guys you'd see in a poster for a family man. Poof. I have no idea if he was 'low quality' with women but I did go to more than one machine tool show with him and never saw him hitting on female colleagues or bar-hopping or any behavior I'd consider to be disrespectful to his marriage. Perhaps his wife simply found herself and that self was lesbian, IDK.

 

I agree, and I think that's an important take-away. I think it's likely much more common that a woman's, or anyone's, sexual preferences are no reflection at all on the quality of their opposite sex relationships.

 

I understand the temptation of your friend to wonder if his ex's choices were a reflection on him; I think that sort of self-pummeling is pretty common when you're in the depths of trying to come to grips with the whys of a broken relationship. But the great likelihood is that it had very little to do with him.

 

Like Grumpy, I have a child who's Gay, and I suspect that has very little if anything to do with the quality of the women in his life. To my shame, I admit to wrestling with whether his choices had anything to do with me as a father. We're often tempted to make things about us.

[Robert Z]

One can only assume that as there are so many men they must be presenting a poor quality rather than poor quantity in the vast majority of areas...

 

One could assume many things. What doesn't need any assumptions is that your title was a complete fabrication!

 

How about this one: Low quality women seek women after multiple rejections.

 

 

As for men being less fluid sexually, tell that to prison inmates! I once worked on a plumbing crew populated by X Vietnam vets and former prison inmates. I was shocked to hear all of these big tough guys talking about having sex with other men in prison. They weren't really gay but when denied sex long enough, apparently the guy in the next cell starts looking pretty good.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Robert Z

[carhill]

The article wrote:

 

"The study also found that women were more likely to change their sexual identities between the ages of 22 and 28.

 

Researchers tracked 5,018 women and 4,191 men as they moved from adolescence to young adulthood. On average, they were 16-years-old in the first wave, 22 in the third wave, and 28 in the fourth wave.

 

Dr McClintock found that women were more likely than men to report bisexuality"

 

 

The comment on 'change their sexual identities', presumably from hetero to bi-sexual or lesbian, coincides age-wise with a topic often discussed or alluded to here on the forums, that personality characteristics solidify in one's mid-20's.

 

 

 

Today, versus when my generation was that age, young people are empowered more completely to follow their own path in matters of relationships, whether that be their sexuality, types of relationships, types of commitments or eschewing romantic relationships and/or sexual liaisons altogether.

 

 

 

If I were to reverse the assertion of the title and presume it to be true, I couldn't imagine 'turning gay'. Why? My brain is wired hetero. I simply don't think of men in a sexual way, regardless of how much I might love or feel intimate with any fellow males, like my close male friends. Was that society's message pounded in from an early age? IDK. Regardless of apparent outlier behaviors to male norms, I can't ever recall being attracted to men. I would imagine it's the same for 100% hetero women. Some women do find attractions for other women. I've experienced this with female friends who are in hetero relationships or marriages. One MW I know really well has a close female friend who's lesbian. She's never admitted to a lesbian affair but has admitted to a hetero affair. Still, like the article asserted, things appear to be more fluid. Two men, one straight, one gay, having that kind of friendship would raise a few eyebrows amongst men, in my generation and demographic anyway. That's where I think the younger folks have evolved some.

 

 

 

Even if not supported by the article, if in fact men any particular woman encounters are of poor quality as partners, if she has tendencies or proclivities for more fluid sexual attraction, then she has more opportunities for satisfying sexual or relationship interactions. To me, that's valuable.

[Diezel]

There was absolutely nothing in what you linked that said anything about "low quality men".

 

Absolutely.

 

Complete projection from the OP. It's just doing the article a disservice.

[Diezel]

One can only assume that as there are so many men they must be presenting a poor quality rather than poor quantity in the vast majority of areas...

 

Highlighted the important parts for you.

[Robert Z]

if she has tendencies or proclivities for more fluid sexual attraction, then she has more opportunities for satisfying sexual or relationship interactions. To me, that's valuable.

 

 

I chose to die rather than go without sex. It wasn't the same situation as considered here because I felt trapped in a bad marriage and couldn't see a way out [so I guess you could chalk it up to a low quality woman!]. But sex with men is not something that ever occurred to me or would.

[Noideanow]

I'll reiterate some of what's already been said (as an insider on team pink lol) - any woman who turns to women, no matter the reason, was already bisexual. I doubt "low quality men" influence a woman's innate sexuality. I suppose it's possible that a woman who believed she was utterly straight might switch teams due to frustration, but I really do believe she was bi all along regardless. And frustration with men might lead her to switch more quickly, but I don't believe it would be a wholesale change - she was bi on some level already and felt pushed to switch.

 

Other thing is that ime most women actually do have bisexual tendencies, so it seems like it would be much easier for a woman to make that transition than a man in general.

 

where i live if not most then the mojority of men also seem to be bi/gay:cool: could it be the same genes we are talking about-'?

[carhill]

I chose to die rather than go without sex. It wasn't the same situation as considered here because I felt trapped in a bad marriage and couldn't see a way out [so I guess you could chalk it up to a low quality woman!]. But sex with men is not something that ever occurred to me or would.

Yeah, I'm the same way, hetero, but can see traction for brain wiring allowing more fluid and bi-gender attractions.

 

I recall once asking out a M->F transgender and discussing some of this stuff with her (she rejected my date request). For her, as a man, she felt being 'gay' was wrong for her because she felt female and heterosexual, hence her choice to reassign gender and pursue life as a 'straight' woman. That was pretty provocative stuff 25 years ago, at least around where I live. I guess I've always lacked rigid ideas about who men and women should be but respected what the local culture assigned them. I always figured people were individuals. Being of the 3rd-4th wave (from the article) during the initial AIDS scare and experiencing the often pejorative assignment of the disease to the gay community, especially male, fluid sexual attraction or bi-sexual proclivities or anything remotely resembling homosexual and male was a really touchy topic. Less so for lesbians, at least in my experience. My experience with the transgender lady was during the more mature phase of the AIDS outbreak but I'm confident those issues weighed on her when she was a 'gay' man.

[Grumpybutfun]

I agree, and I think that's an important take-away. I think it's likely much more common that a woman's, or anyone's, sexual preferences are no reflection at all on the quality of their opposite sex relationships.

 

I understand the temptation of your friend to wonder if his ex's choices were a reflection on him; I think that sort of self-pummeling is pretty common when you're in the depths of trying to come to grips with the whys of a broken relationship. But the great likelihood is that it had very little to do with him.

 

Like Grumpy, I have a child who's Gay, and I suspect that has very little if anything to do with the quality of the women in his life. To my shame, I admit to wrestling with whether his choices had anything to do with me as a father. We're often tempted to make things about us.

 

I'm very comfortable with my child's preference and even I had the thought that maybe I turned her off men with my strictness.....those thoughts are definitely social conditioning because I'm her favorite person in the world and I know that.

 

She also has never had anything but positive interactions with men and boys so that doesn't seem to be a component of her preferences. She always knew who she found attractive and interesting....this wasn't a latent thing in her case.

 

I can see though where it might be with some people or they are bi sexual and they don't realize it due to situations or conditioning. My wife's aunt found out her husband had been having a thirty year love affair with his male college friend whom they had daily contact with. He left her as soon as the kids were out of the house. He loved the man and she just felt sad that she didn't get to find the love she deserved because he was too afraid to own his sexuality. My wife really dislikes her uncle now due to his duplicity and betrayal, not his preference. Life is complicated.

G

[TaraMaiden2]

Could I join this "I have a child who's..."?

 

My wonderful, eldest daughter, mother to a marvellous, intelligent, articulate and bright little boy, is bisexual.

She is in a LTR with a guy, and they have a home together; but she knows where her heart lies, and although is attracted to guys, is also attracted to gals.

 

I am so proud of her. She is beautiful, intelligent, independent and simply lovely.

I really couldn't give a flying doo-dah what her sexual persuasion is. It's never crossed my mind to wonder at her upbringing, my influence, what could have happened...

All that is of no consequence.

I - just like Grumps and GT - simply want the best for my child, and whatever it takes to make her happy.

And SHE makes herself happy, by being real about who she is.

[Grumpybutfun]

Could I join this "I have a child who's..."?

 

My wonderful, eldest daughter, mother to a marvellous, intelligent, articulate and bright little boy, is bisexual.

She is in a LTR with a guy, and they have a home together; but she knows where her heart lies, and although is attracted to guys, is also attracted to gals.

 

I am so proud of her. She is beautiful, intelligent, independent and simply lovely.

I really couldn't give a flying doo-dah what her sexual persuasion is. It's never crossed my mind to wonder at her upbringing, my influence, what could have happened...

All that is of no consequence.

I - just like Grumps and GT - simply want the best for my child, and whatever it takes to make her happy.

And SHE makes herself happy, by being real about who she is.

 

We could form a club of proud, happy parents who love their children and are grateful they aren't lemmings and follow their hearts.

My little girl brought her gf home this summer and she was just the most wonderful human being. She has only dated boys but she said she just loves who she loves. Wow, what a concept. I was thinking of how we think we are enlightened, but still place so much value in external social/religious conditioning. What if we didn't have to have parameters to find our partner in life? What if we just loved based on innate qualities such as humor, kindness, compassion, admiration or selflessness?

Authenticity is truly a gift...it is so hard for most to ever find it. My daughter is definitely her own person.

Grumpy

[TaraMaiden2]

We could form a club of proud, happy parents who love their children and are grateful they aren't lemmings and follow their hearts.

 

Double 'like'...!

 

My little girl brought her gf home this summer and she was just the most wonderful human being. She has only dated boys but she said she just loves who she loves. Wow, what a concept. I was thinking of how we think we are enlightened, but still place so much value in external social/religious conditioning. What if we didn't have to have parameters to find our partner in life? What if we just loved based on innate qualities such as humor, kindness, compassion, admiration or selflessness?

Authenticity is truly a gift...it is so hard for most to ever find it. My daughter is definitely her own person.

 

 

Yes, then THIS happens....

[jen1447]

As for men being less fluid sexually, tell that to prison inmates! I once worked on a plumbing crew populated by X Vietnam vets and former prison inmates. I was shocked to hear all of these big tough guys talking about having sex with other men in prison. They weren't really gay but when denied sex long enough, apparently the guy in the next cell starts looking pretty good.

 

I'm not a social scientist or anything like that but I doubt prison life is really comparable. My guess would be that sex drive is what causes men to choose other men when no women are present, whereas women or men choosing the same sex outside of prison would be driven by their actual inclinations. I don't speak for men obvs and I'm not terribly familiar beyond what I observe, but I don't see a significant amount of men exhibit fluid tendencies, whereas I see almost all women exhibit them.

 

I'd guess maybe 95% of men are straight, 3% are gay, and 2% are bi. I'd guess maybe 95% of women are bi, 3% are strictly straight, and 2% are lesbian.

 

(Not really debating or being contrary here, just sharing the observations of someone who lives in that world (albeit the girl side).

[Woggle]

These women had gay tendecencies already. If there are some who try to be gay because they decide that they hate men then good for them. I am sure most men won't miss their presence in the dating pool. Real lesbians aren't into women because men suck.

[Noideanow]

I'm not a social scientist or anything like that but I doubt prison life is really comparable. My guess would be that sex drive is what causes men to choose other men when no women are present, whereas women or men choosing the same sex outside of prison would be driven by their actual inclinations. I don't speak for men obvs and I'm not terribly familiar beyond what I observe, but I don't see a significant amount of men exhibit fluid tendencies, whereas I see almost all women exhibit them.

 

I'd guess maybe 95% of men are straight, 3% are gay, and 2% are bi. I'd guess maybe 95% of women are bi, 3% are strictly straight, and 2% are lesbian.

 

(Not really debating or being contrary here, just sharing the observations of someone who lives in that world (albeit the girl side).

 

Thats because you only look at the women;) trust me, as a female looking after/cheking out men i Can tell you there aint no difference:cool: but i think the Numbers should more be like 70-80 % at least where Im livin'

[SolG]

I'm not a social scientist or anything like that but I doubt prison life is really comparable. My guess would be that sex drive is what causes men to choose other men when no women are present, whereas women or men choosing the same sex outside of prison would be driven by their actual inclinations. I don't speak for men obvs and I'm not terribly familiar beyond what I observe, but I don't see a significant amount of men exhibit fluid tendencies, whereas I see almost all women exhibit them.

 

I'd guess maybe 95% of men are straight, 3% are gay, and 2% are bi. I'd guess maybe 95% of women are bi, 3% are strictly straight, and 2% are lesbian.

 

(Not really debating or being contrary here, just sharing the observations of someone who lives in that world (albeit the girl side).

 

There's actually a well known study (will see if I can find a link) that bears this out to a certain extent.

 

When exposed to a varitety of porn, men's physiological responses generally reflect their reported sexuality. That is, men who are heterosexual get turned on by women engaged in sex acts, and homosexual men by men with men.

 

However, regardless of reported sexuality, a lot of women were physiologically responsive to a wide range of porn. Lesbian, gay male, etc, included. But regardless of the extent of the physiological response to other types of porn, many women denied it. Sticking instead to their reported sexual identity. Some to the extent that they actually did not believe that their bodies had even responded.

 

For women in particular, the brain is indeed the most powerful sex organ. Whereas a lot of women have the potential to be sexually fluid, it's their 'identity' that will dictate whether or not this is ever realised, or even believed to exist in the first place.

 

Another interesting factoid from the same researcher... Show a hetero man and woman a hot member of the opposite sex semi clad/naked and the former will physiologically respond. The latter... Not so much. However, throw an erect penis into the picture, then the woman's body gets hot and steamy! Interesting stuff.

 

On a personal level, I'm absolutely sexually attracted to women. However, not romantically so. Sex is absoutely on the cards with women, but not a romantic partnership.

[Noideanow]

You lucky jen1447 you have many people to choose from;) didnt mean my tears as a sad thing for the World just from my point of view looking for a wonderful heterosexual man:cool:

[jen1447]

Thats because you only look at the women;) trust me, as a female looking after/cheking out men i Can tell you there aint no difference:cool: but i think the Numbers should more be like 70-80 % at least where Im livin'

 

You lucky jen1447 you have many people to choose from;) didnt mean my tears as a sad thing for the World just from my point of view looking for a wonderful heterosexual man:cool:

No worries. I'm bisexual tho so I look at men too. Not sure what you mean by no difference - in what specifically?

 

There's actually a well known study (will see if I can find a link) that bears this out to a certain extent.

 

When exposed to a varitety of porn, men's physiological responses generally reflect their reported sexuality. That is, men who are heterosexual get turned on by women engaged in sex acts, and homosexual men by men with men.

 

However, regardless of reported sexuality, a lot of women were physiologically responsive to a wide range of porn. Lesbian, gay male, etc, included. But regardless of the extent of the physiological response to other types of porn, many women denied it. Sticking instead to their reported sexual identity. Some to the extent that they actually did not believe that their bodies had even responded.

 

For women in particular, the brain is indeed the most powerful sex organ. Whereas a lot of women have the potential to be sexually fluid, it's their 'identity' that will dictate whether or not this is ever realised, or even believed to exist in the first place.

 

Another interesting factoid from the same researcher... Show a hetero man and woman a hot member of the opposite sex semi clad/naked and the former will physiologically respond. The latter... Not so much. However, throw an erect penis into the picture, then the woman's body gets hot and steamy! Interesting stuff.

 

On a personal level, I'm absolutely sexually attracted to women. However, not romantically so. Sex is absoutely on the cards with women, but not a romantic partnership.

 

Yeah, I've seen that study too somewhere. Interesting! Sorry SolG, are you a woman?

[Noideanow]

Jen you wrote you think there are more bi/gay woman than men (including the closeted ones) , i just Said i think the number (%) of gay/bi people is the same for both genders:cool:

[jen1447]

Jen you wrote you think there are more bi/gay woman than men (including the closeted ones) , i just Said i think the number (%) of gay/bi people is the same for both genders:cool:

 

Ah, ok. Do you think 95% of men are bisexual?

[Noideanow]

Ah, ok. Do you think 95% of men are bisexual?

No, now you Read what i wrote again and you Will know what i mean;) and i Will go to sleep, godnight:cool:

[casey.lives]

I, for one, hold back criticism of guys because we're all getting screwed in the name of fast output and high profits. It's not the quality of men that is the problem, there are many factors at play.

 

Im a single woman and i have been for some time now..

hmm.. i thought you were born gay, not made gay??!

[BluEyeL]

I'm not sure about the "gay" part, but I've been through a situation that is very similar to this "phenomenon".

 

In 2009, I divorced my ex-husband. I was living alone in a 4 bedroom house with my son. I was going to lunch from time to time with a female friend/acquaintance. She was single and planning to test a commute situation where she'd live in the town I lived in Mo-Wed and go to her new apartment, in a bigger city, more suitable for singles, Wed night and spend until Mo morning there. She didn't know how to arrange the housing in this town. I then told her that "look, I'm alone with my son, I have enough space, no plans to date now, so you can come live with me until you figure things out". So she did. She was paying me some rent and she lived with me that way between 2010 and 2013.

 

We got along great, I am very "mother-like", I was cooking, cleaning, baking, always saving her something. We were watching stupid reality shows and keeping each other company. Well, turns out she gave up on dating. Never married, no children, in her 40s, she decided that she cannot get a quality man so she'll just not settle. Her alternative idea was the me and her would just live together forever, like the Golden Girls. We'll buy a house in California when we retire.

 

Now, what "quality men" meant for her: athletic and toned, tall, very smart (she has a Ph.D. and not in liberal arts-hard sciences) etc. She decided she's too old and not pretty enough, and too smart to find what she wants and if she can't get that she just rather have the company of very close friends. She was sending me articles about how older women decide to never (re)-marry and just cohabitate happily with no men. She wasn't a lesbian, at least it was never any sexual thing going on, and I didn't feel any vibe.

 

The s*it hit the fan in 2013, when I started to date. She became extremely jealous and very unhappy. She basically started to behave like I was cheating on her or something. She started to be abusive, and couldn't stand any stories about dating. When I found my first relationship, she went nuts. She asked me if I wanted her to move out. I said yes. Now, we don't speak. I didn't know what was wrong with her, but she totally behaved like she was my girlfriend and we broke up. I tried to stay friends with her after but it just didn't work out. She was angry, hurt and resentful. So now we don't speak. I heard she's moving away. Maybe is better for her.

 

So, I'm not sure about the sex part, but if it happened to me, it must not be so unique.