Mz. Pixie Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Midlifecrazy may be the name of another poster. Saw some PM's from him. Did you read the pinned post at the top of the forum? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 While we are on the topic of visiting other friends, perhaps a read of this one will give you some deep insight into the issue of reconciliation. The difference in number of years married is big, and I cannot say whether or not it matters. I know it means something to me. But the thing is, couples in their first years of marriage surely have as much investment in their marriage as those who have 15 plus. So I don't consider it for me to judge how imporant this marriage is to you or anyone else. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/40398-wife-made-stupid-mistake 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks all for your posts. I will get on and reply a little later. I have in-laws visiting, and I don't want them to know what's up. I try to keep my activity hidden. As far as forensic software goes and seeing all texts, that is actually how I discovered everything to begin with. I did it a month too late, so most of the deleted messages were unrecoverable by that time. It was really a google search in her phone's browser that got her to admit that she cheated. It was a search that said something like "Admitting to cheating to your husband" or something like that. I think I could take it a step further with a VAR though. The problem with the spying is she knows my methods somewhat, and she doesn't discuss the infidelity with anyone or so she says, at least not in texts or when I'm around. That VAR might prove otherwise though. I'll discuss it more and reply to each of your posts once I get back on. Thanks again everyone. You all are great people. I wish we could all go out and have a cup of coffee together. Edited September 7, 2015 by tomcook Addition Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 While we are on the topic of visiting other friends, perhaps a read of this one will give you some deep insight into the issue of reconciliation. The difference in number of years married is big, and I cannot say whether or not it matters. I know it means something to me. But the thing is, couples in their first years of marriage surely have as much investment in their marriage as those who have 15 plus. So I don't consider it for me to judge how imporant this marriage is to you or anyone else. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/40398-wife-made-stupid-mistake I agree that DazednConfused had a really twisted story and trying to reconcile with WW was excruciatingly painful. He did update us 5 years later on how things ended up: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/243856-note-survivor-update-those-who-remember 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Thanks all for your posts. I will get on and reply a little later. I have in-laws visiting, and I don't want them to know what's up. I try to keep my activity hidden. As far as forensic software goes and seeing all texts, that is actually how I discovered everything to begin with. I did it a month too late, so most of the deleted messages were unrecoverable by that time. It was really a google search in her phone's browser that got her to admit that she cheated. It was a search that said something like "Admitting to cheating to your husband" or something like that. I think I could take it a step further with a VAR though. The problem with the spying is she knows my methods somewhat, and she doesn't discuss the infidelity with anyone or so she says, at least not in texts or when I'm around. That VAR might prove otherwise though. I'll discuss it more and reply to each of your posts once I get back on. Thanks again everyone. You all are great people. I wish we could all go out and have a cup of coffee together. I'm sorry to have to repeat myself here, but I'm not getting through to you. You are currently in limbo and you will never leave limbo until your wife convinces you that (1) all interaction between her and other men has ended and (2) that you can trust her again. I don't know your wife, but you do. How would she react if you told her you were keeping a deep secret, that you'd had two liaisons with women in the last week. All that happened was that they gave you a "hand job", but nothing else except perhaps a kiss or two. Then tell her that you really didn't want to talk about it, but that if she did, you can assure her that that's all that happened. Going back to your real situation, it may bother your wife to talk about her liaisons but it is HER JOB to make you feel better about the situation. She may be telling the truth, but the story is so improbable that it is hard to believe. One way to approach it is to have her describe how she met these guys. How did things work out so that she was in the car (or was it a truck?) with one of them. Was she wearing a dress or pants? And how did his hands just happen to get into her underpants. Did he kiss her first? Did his hands do a bit of wandering first? If not, why didn't she give him a black eye? I simply can't see them getting together and STARTING with his hand in her pants. She's probably petrified that if she tells you the truth, you'll divorce her. Tell her that's a risk that she'll have to take because unless she can explain the situation to your satisfaction, that's what's going to happen anyway. I know that you don't want to do this. If you don't, you will never reach any real resolution. Edited September 8, 2015 by sidney2718 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 You are not alone in this. Many people believe in the zero tolerance, or thought they did, until... MANY a GOOD MAN believed in this. I'm sure it's even possible your WW did believe that once too...... Hey Fellini, thanks for your post. They are always very heartfelt and well thought out. That's true. It really does change when it is no longer hypothetical. I know I do not have any excuse for my fear of leaving. Her mom and brother came today and bought me a suit as a graduation present (I graduate in December). It's been a very long day. Maybe she has cried for the marriage, or maybe her tears were selfish ones like the others have said. They certainly seemed genuine, and I feel like she was being truly remorseful, but I guess I have just been having a string of bad days lately. I am not feeling as merciful as I normally do. Her repairing herself. That's an interesting take, and I will try to bring it up when we talk next (whenever that will be). I will definitely take a look at the Reese Witherspoon film you mentioned. I am very eager to see it. Thanks again Fellini. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I had read somewhere how an OW or OM feels about leaving the affair; if they leave and go NC it is like having a huge knife wound that will hurt like hell for some time but eventually it will heal, but if they stay they will have a minor wound that will hurt a bit every day but will never heal. It is like taking off a bandaid. This is what you choose to do. You choose to have the little pain every day with some happiness instead of taking the huge pain that will eventually be gone and you will find the full happiness. I have never looked at it that way SummerDreams. That is very insightful. Why am I continuing to put myself through this slow, painful process when it is not what my gut feeling is leaning towards? Is it because I don't want to make the wrong decision? I'm not sure. The day I am no longer AFRAID of leaving her, that will be the day I know if I truly want to reconcile or leave. My heart keeps leaning towards a new start though, especially these past several days. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Don't be manipulated. You've seen how other WWs act all sorry but get talking about their BH on the VAR. I'd expect a WS down on their knees apologising and begging AND ACTUALLY finding out by themselves what steps they need to take. Not the BS having to tell them and them 'agreeing ' to talk about the affair/s, as though you should be grateful for that. Yeah, well said Sandy. It is kindave ridiculous the lengths that I have to go to just to have gotten her on fairly the same page as me, no matter how remorseful she seems. It shouldn't really have been me having to do all that work. She should be proactive. I asked her if she joined Survivinginfidelity.com yet and she said no I've been working this whole time, I haven't even done my school work, and you never sent it to me. True, I never sent it to her even though I told her the name I'm fairly sure. Anyhow, I did send it to her, and she said thanks. So, we'll see how long it takes or how many times I have to remind her now. I was going to send her "Things Every Wayward Spouse Should Know" but after reading through it with the way I feel currently, I decided not to. I feel like it give the WS too much hope that the BS WILL reconcile and let it go in time, and with the way I'm feeling now, I'm not sure I want to send that message anymore. I don't think she deserves to have any more reassurance that I am not going anywhere. I definitely want to do the VAR, but as I said, I have a feeling she really didn't share anything with any of her friends because she is too ashamed, but you never know what to believe anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Tom-look for a thread with the screen name of Kidd. 2011. Checked my PM's and he was one who messaged me a lot for advice. So many others. Lots of them don't stay so it's hard to remember screen names..... Haha Mz. Pixie, yeah she can seem like that when I look back on our little over 4 years together. Like I said in my general response, not sure if you caught it, I used forensic software to uncover everything she did. I have access to all of her messages, but I am always freaked out that maybe she has another phone or uses an online texting site from incognito browsing. Boom! Can't track it! Haha, but I'm fairly sure she has ended all activity. Then again, how can I be sure of anything? I use google location history and android device manager to monitor her location. I use google voice history to hear any voice searches in her phone. I've used phone records a long with pictures in the cloud to determine pictures that she sends out and receives (not 100% but sometimes works pretty well). I have employed a lot of methods to discover and continue monitoring but nothing so far. She really doesn't use Snapchat at all now, at least very little, looks at other friend's (females) stories or whatever, and the featured snaps of cities. She used to post her own stories and communicate with the guys from there underground. Completely upsetting bull****, I know. As far as being passive, and walking all over me, yeah you're right. I thought being nice and passive would keep things together, and keep her happy, but life is definitely an ongoing learning experience Mz. Pixie. Now I know. She even told me a couple of days after revealing the infidelity that I should say good things about myself and be positive, because the more I act a certain way the more it makes her truly believe I am that way, whether it's true or not. What I feel she was really hinting at is the walking all over me, kindave hard to overcome if you ****ing cheat on me when we get into an argument, haha. It's like someone at a debate telling you that you have the floor, speak as you wish, but they're holding a gun to your head. I will try not to put up with bull**** though. You would be proud. I have been doing a lot better since I have been talking to you all. Oh, and I'll check out that other poster so I can read his story as well. Thanks for that by the way. Very kind of you to look into it for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 DO A FORENSIC RECOVERY ON HER PHONE NOW. she will lie and gas light, but get that phone. If she is telling the truth she has nothing to hide. Tell her this program you have recovers snap chat too. It (Dr Fone) can't, it can only do SMS and WhatsApp (and a few others). But tell her this to see the look on her face. That'll tell you all you need to know. Sadly, as I mentioned, that's what I did a month after the infidelity, which actually led me to discovering it. However, it was too late to recover many of the deleted texts. However, if I do tell her that I finally have found a way to recover Snapchat, maybe she will break. I may employ that. Thanks Eric. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 While we are on the topic of visiting other friends, perhaps a read of this one will give you some deep insight into the issue of reconciliation. The difference in number of years married is big, and I cannot say whether or not it matters. I know it means something to me. But the thing is, couples in their first years of marriage surely have as much investment in their marriage as those who have 15 plus. So I don't consider it for me to judge how imporant this marriage is to you or anyone else. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/40398-wife-made-stupid-mistake That was a very interesting read Fellini. I always noticed that kids being brought into the equation affect the process of reconciliation as well, more or less. I can't help but feel so similar to what he felt in his posts. It's fascinating that all of our situations are unique yet many of the feelings are nearly identical. Thanks for taking your time to find and share this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I agree that DazednConfused had a really twisted story and trying to reconcile with WW was excruciatingly painful. He did update us 5 years later on how things ended up: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/243856-note-survivor-update-those-who-remember Wow, so he finally left her despite the feelings of love and wanting to work things out. Crazy. His feelings beforehand reminded me of my own. By the way, you all are all wonderful human beings to have sacrificed so much thought and time into helping so many people navigate through the madness and restore their sanity. i've said it once and I'll say it again, thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tomcook Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm sorry to have to repeat myself here, but I'm not getting through to you. You are currently in limbo and you will never leave limbo until your wife convinces you that (1) all interaction between her and other men has ended and (2) that you can trust her again.... Good point. You are getting through to me one step at a time. Well she would probably react insanely bad if I told her something like that. My guess is she would definitely go for revenge and humiliate me as well...then probably continue to think I was a liar. I will try this and see what happens. It may take me some time but I shall try. I am trying to setcup an action timeline for all of the advice I have been given so far. Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I have never looked at it that way SummerDreams. That is very insightful. Why am I continuing to put myself through this slow, painful process when it is not what my gut feeling is leaning towards? Is it because I don't want to make the wrong decision? I'm not sure. The day I am no longer AFRAID of leaving her, that will be the day I know if I truly want to reconcile or leave. My heart keeps leaning towards a new start though, especially these past several days. We cant make decisions based on fear. Fear is the worst advisor for our plans. You have to work with a therapist to help you find out why you feel you are not secure enough to stand on your own feet and demand the best for you. After you find the source of your insecurity and start to heal it or "undo" its damages in your psyche, only then will you be able to face this dilemma of staying or leaving. I realize that I was pushing you too much to make a decision you are not ready to even see now. It is like asking from a third grade kid to comprehend an adult novel, it doesnt have the abilities to do so. The same with you, you dont yet have the ability to make decisions that will benefit you because you are not aware yet how to love, respect and satisfy yourself. I am not saying this in a bad way, I am in the process of this journey to learn to love myself as well and it is a hard road tbh. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I did see that Tom. After I had posted what I posted. There are sooooo many threads. And for years I posted on another forum as well and I honestly get some of the longer and more informational posts confused. I think a good plan would be to work on you. Start taking better care of yourself. Work out. Dress up. Look nice and smell good. Don't discuss the relationship. She will begin to wonder what's going on if she cares. I absolutely can't stand to see a guy ran over-which is why I post primarily to the BH. You're doing an awful lot of work trying to make sure SHE stays faithful. Isn't it exhausting? She should be doing the heavy lifting at this point. I've got a few guy friends. They just take take take from women. On another note. Flip board Daily edition has a post on how to spot a liar today. If I felt you had the truth then I would feel like you could move on. I don't. Going to be hard without it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Tom-look for a thread with the screen name of Kidd. 2011. Checked my PM's and he was one who messaged me a lot for advice. So many others. Lots of them don't stay so it's hard to remember screen names. Lol. I think he might still be around somewhere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Really???? I need to PM him. I've been away for a bit but back. I go. I come back. lol. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Really???? I need to PM him. I've been away for a bit but back. I go. I come back. lol. Yes, that's me, goofball. Feel free to PM me here. Nice to see you back. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Well I tried to PM you as Kidd. Then I thought Hey.... We need all our former BH to stay around and help some of the others. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yes, that's me, goofball. Feel free to PM me here. Nice to see you back. Hey BH (kidd) - why don't you give us the CliffNotes version? Especially as it relates to her version of the sex and the ultimate truth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think it might be great to read his thread. And the replies. If you can locate it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I believe you drifter, especially given the experience. Obviously, you're very passionate about what you say. I actually did try to find some of those posts, but was having trouble finding any just now. Can you direct me to any when/if you have a moment? One of the main reasons I am giving her the benefit of the doubt is because on that slim chance she is telling the truth, I wouldn't want to say things/do things I would later regret. However, I do agree, I shouldn't believe this crap, even if she is seemingly sincere with all the info she has offered. The most recent one is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/529576-bust-not-bust As for more - just pick out some older threads with "wife cheated" type titles and read the first couple of posts by thread starter. There are so many men who simply don't want to see the truth early on and will actively help their WW hide things by not asking questions. Not admitting to "full on sex" is standard unless you have proof when you bust them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hey BH (kidd) - why don't you give us the CliffNotes version? Especially as it relates to her version of the sex and the ultimate truth. I've been traveling on business today so I'm a little too swamped at the moment. But yes, I'll return and give a cliff notes version and my $.02. There are some parts of the story that are very applicable to Tom here and it's tough to watch him put himself thru the same torture that so many of us BHs do. He's perfectly normal but needs help to clear his own fog. Infidelity packs quite a whallop. ETA: I'll also include links to some of my old threads. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Awesome BH. Thank you. It is pretty common not to admit. The thing is-she still trampled all over your marriage vows. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sidney2718 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Good point. You are getting through to me one step at a time. Well she would probably react insanely bad if I told her something like that. My guess is she would definitely go for revenge and humiliate me as well...then probably continue to think I was a liar. I will try this and see what happens. It may take me some time but I shall try. I am trying to setcup an action timeline for all of the advice I have been given so far. Just ask her to tell you how it happened. You know the sort of thing: "We walked to the car and we both got into it and sat down." And then what happened. And if she tells you she doesn't remember, don't believe her. I'm not trying to be mean. This is going to have to be resolved or you will NEVER feel really comfortable with her. And remember, she's got several scenes to explain. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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