I keep coming back to this question

[lftbehind]

That's what I think, too

[privategal]

Thank you so much for taking time to reply to this post. You have helped me so much and I have been thinking about the things that you said. I think that you're right and MM doesn't care about me. I wanted to believe that he did, but I don't really think so. I have been detaching myself emotionally from him for a while. I don't really have good feelings for him anymore and don't think that I could ever be with him. I have cried and been upset over him too many times. I have a hard job and problems with H and he was an escape that at first made me feel good, not now. I'm tired of dealing with him and everything being all about him and what he wants.

I'm sorry that you went through a similar situation and it's good that you got out of it now. It sounds like you have a lot going for you and I hope that you are feeling better now. I thought about talking to MM about staying friends, but I don't really want to have anything more to do with him. Going dark seems to be the best thing to do. Thanks again for the advice and I hope that your NC is going well. I will look at your posts when I need support.

 

Im finally feeling like I can breathe again. Its hard to let go. But when we were 'friends' I cried ALOT I felt let down so many times. I think it was like a fairytale feeling to feel so loved and embraced...its a shock to the system to be on the other side.

I read alot of positive quotes about letting go and I don't try to stir my heart and emotions so I listen to different music or none at all. Im trying to stay very realistic...he isnt mine, Im not his...and I limit my thoughts of him...hes right there forefront of my brain and I literally say out loud "no" then I count my blessings, think of my job, focus on the love with my husband, look at the clouds, find gratitude.

Its a process to heal but you have to do it.

It sounds so easy "move on"...it isnt...but the little steps you take to let go add up. The heavy chest feeling starts to lift. You dont have to hate, you can consider him a long distance inactive friend, it helps to hold no anger or grudges but rather to think "I only get one life and I want real love, not borrowed secret part time love, and not lust, and not limerence, real love"

Connect with life...yoga, exercise, faith maybe, put more energy than ever into your job, build a new routine, a new you as cliche as it sounds...you can! Hugs!!

[lftbehind]

Im finally feeling like I can breathe again. Its hard to let go. But when we were 'friends' I cried ALOT I felt let down so many times. I think it was like a fairytale feeling to feel so loved and embraced...its a shock to the system to be on the other side.

I read alot of positive quotes about letting go and I don't try to stir my heart and emotions so I listen to different music or none at all. Im trying to stay very realistic...he isnt mine, Im not his...and I limit my thoughts of him...hes right there forefront of my brain and I literally say out loud "no" then I count my blessings, think of my job, focus on the love with my husband, look at the clouds, find gratitude.

Its a process to heal but you have to do it.

It sounds so easy "move on"...it isnt...but the little steps you take to let go add up. The heavy chest feeling starts to lift. You dont have to hate, you can consider him a long distance inactive friend, it helps to hold no anger or grudges but rather to think "I only get one life and I want real love, not borrowed secret part time love, and not lust, and not limerence, real love"

Connect with life...yoga, exercise, faith maybe, put more energy than ever into your job, build a new routine, a new you as cliche as it sounds...you can! Hugs!!

 

I'm glad that you're feeling better and it does take time. I know what you mean about triggers, like music. How did he let you down when you were friends? MM did make me feel special and cared for. I feel like I have been naive for thinking that he cared about me. I do want to move on, because he's not good for me and I'm tired of thinking about him and trying to figure him out. I've spent too much time on him. Have you had any problems feeling connected with your husband because of feelings for MM? I can't connect with mine, but we had problems before I met MM. I'm at work a lot and am exercising and I like to keep up with current events and politics. It helps to keep busy. Hugs!

[privategal]

I'm glad that you're feeling better and it does take time. I know what you mean about triggers, like music. How did he let you down when you were friends? MM did make me feel special and cared for. I feel like I have been naive for thinking that he cared about me. I do want to move on, because he's not good for me and I'm tired of thinking about him and trying to figure him out. I've spent too much time on him. Have you had any problems feeling connected with your husband because of feelings for MM? I can't connect with mine, but we had problems before I met MM. I'm at work a lot and am exercising and I like to keep up with current events and politics. It helps to keep busy. Hugs!

 

He would have the closest friendship with me EVER. Like best friends...then he would flirt and make me feel like it was this old true love...then he would up and abandon me.

When he would come back I would try to make the friendship very normal...very platonic. We go way back we were coworkers and went to lunch every day years ago. And it was platonic so Id try to get it back to just that. Slowly everytime he would flirt very subtely...email a ton, call and text a ton...my heart would get mushy and involved again...then the same thing...just drop me, like it was either all for ego strokes or he would feel guilt.

It was crazy how many times I cried cause I just wanted my friend...or because the repeated blows to my self esteem were so hard.

Do you know, I always loved my H the same...its like I kept then in different corners of my heart. My H is very warm and supportive and affectionate. I did pull away when I was healing and hurting the most though.

They say the grass is greener where you water it...maybe all that thought and energy back to your husband? Show him your heart maybe? Or maybe its time for Divorce?

Either way I feel like mm will always let you down and dissapoint you sadly. Im sorry it hurts alot.

[lftbehind]

He would have the closest friendship with me EVER. Like best friends...then he would flirt and make me feel like it was this old true love...then he would up and abandon me.

When he would come back I would try to make the friendship very normal...very platonic. We go way back we were coworkers and went to lunch every day years ago. And it was platonic so Id try to get it back to just that. Slowly everytime he would flirt very subtely...email a ton, call and text a ton...my heart would get mushy and involved again...then the same thing...just drop me, like it was either all for ego strokes or he would feel guilt.

It was crazy how many times I cried cause I just wanted my friend...or because the repeated blows to my self esteem were so hard.

Do you know, I always loved my H the same...its like I kept then in different corners of my heart. My H is very warm and supportive and affectionate. I did pull away when I was healing and hurting the most though.

They say the grass is greener where you water it...maybe all that thought and energy back to your husband? Show him your heart maybe? Or maybe its time for Divorce?

Either way I feel like mm will always let you down and dissapoint you sadly. Im sorry it hurts alot.

 

That sounds like a frustrating situation. That's what gets me is that they act in ways that I think make them feel guilty and then the abandon you or lessen contact. I would ask MM if he felt guilty and he would say no, but he would pull away from me. I kept trying to figure out how to get him to not to . The rejection does hurt a lot. How long did he usually drop you for? My MM emailed me Friday morning and asked how I was and mentioned that he was at a funeral for his father in-law, who died last week. I wasn't going to reply to him, but decided to and expressed my condolences to him. I wrote it right before I went to work, so he wouldn't have time to email me back before I left. I don't have a smartphone, so I can't check my email until I get home at 11:30 pm. When I got home, I had an email from him asking if I could see him after he gets off work for about half an hour. He is the manager, so we have the place to ourselves when everyone leaves. He asks almost every Saturday and sometimes I go, but a lot of times I've been busy. I want to tell him that being friends with benefits is not working for me, but I don't know how to do it. I can't seem to go dark, but I really don't want to have to explain myself. I didn't email him back yet.

That's good that you can love your H the same. My H and I had serious problems before I met MM. He is an alcoholic and has been verbally abusive. I can't connect with him and don't really enjoy being around him. I work at night, so I don't see him much. It's a mess.

[elaine567]

I guess the question that I keep asking through all of this is how can you love someone romantically and cheat on them? Is it easier if you don't love them that way? What are other peoples' opinions.

I think it is perfectly possible to love someone romantically and still cheat on them. Cheaters tend to be very good at compartmentalising their lives.

Love here - sex there.

Love here - friendship there.

Love here - fun there.

 

I think too many OWs underestimate the love that many MM do have for their wives, and I think many MM cheat for "extra", and not because they do not love their wife. Extra sex, extra intimacy, extra attention, extra understanding...etc.

They do not leave, as they can do without the ice-cream, if there is meat and potatoes at home.

 

I think that many MM are good at saying what OWs want to hear, and I think some OWs are good at hearing stuff that he never actually said too. I think also that too many OWs get caught up in the romanticization of the affair and never look at it from the POV of the MM, who is after all just a man trying to juggle two women. He has to try and keep both happy, manage his guilt and avoid being caught, all at the same time.

He necessarily has to lie to both, in order to maintain the status quo.

Too many OWs on LS IMO believe that their MM would never lie to them, and thus get themselves deeply involved in relationships that were never actually meant to be taken seriously in the first place.

 

Too much of this

Him: I love you

Her: I love you too

Him: I really love you.

Her: I really love you too.

Him: Love you more.

Her: When are you leaving your wife?

Him: Erm...not a good time just now.

Her: I thought you loved me.

Him: I do, but there's the kids...

Her: I am happy to look after your kids.

Him: I know you would make a great mother. Look, I truly do love you, if only things were different... maybe next year, when the little one goes to nursery.

Her: Oh, OK then.

...and not enough of this

Him: I love you so much, I have never loved anyone as much as you.

Her: Then leave your wife for me.

Him: Er.. no, not yet.

Her: OK, I'm moving on. Bye.

[privategal]

That sounds like a frustrating situation. That's what gets me is that they act in ways that I think make them feel guilty and then the abandon you or lessen contact. I would ask MM if he felt guilty and he would say no, but he would pull away from me. I kept trying to figure out how to get him to not to . The rejection does hurt a lot. How long did he usually drop you for? My MM emailed me Friday morning and asked how I was and mentioned that he was at a funeral for his father in-law, who died last week. I wasn't going to reply to him, but decided to and expressed my condolences to him. I wrote it right before I went to work, so he wouldn't have time to email me back before I left. I don't have a smartphone, so I can't check my email until I get home at 11:30 pm. When I got home, I had an email from him asking if I could see him after he gets off work for about half an hour. He is the manager, so we have the place to ourselves when everyone leaves. He asks almost every Saturday and sometimes I go, but a lot of times I've been busy. I want to tell him that being friends with benefits is not working for me, but I don't know how to do it. I can't seem to go dark, but I really don't want to have to explain myself. I didn't email him back yet.

That's good that you can love your H the same. My H and I had serious problems before I met MM. He is an alcoholic and has been verbally abusive. I can't connect with him and don't really enjoy being around him. I work at night, so I don't see him much. It's a mess.

 

He would be gone several weeks to several months.

I peiced together too...that just like your mm mine was into bdsm and kink...but not with his wife.

He brought ME into that world sharing with me all his secret famtasies that I dont think he could tell her...so I thought that was pretty deep and crazy he shared it with only me...but you see...his wife was the good girl, nice person, beautiful, great dutiful mom....mom....he saw ME as the bad girl, the sexual vixen disguised as a friend.

He could dial me up...groom me...appeal to my soft side...appear to fall in love...then drop me when he wanted to go back to loving father and husband.

I must have been so blind and whats more...I had a good sex life with my H...average kinda boring, nothing crazy, but good...so that dark side fantasy he pulled me into was mesmerizing....cause frankly I am a good girl too...romantic and loving not a dark vixen like he painted me. But then he would layer in thr friendship and sweet ILY and IMY talk too and share with me work issues and normal stress...it was like I was his entire support and like he was completely attached. Then no warning really he would be gone.

I think he really loved his wife and didnt want to cheat and wgen it got close to going to a PA...he would run. I only wanted to share a kiss truth be told...sex wasn't completely out of my mind but it pretty much was a line we both kept. All EA except for long hugs when we occasionally met up...once every few months.

 

Ugh! So back to you...I hope you can get the courage to divorce. I had a husband who was a gambler and a cheater and I set up a new entry level job and tiny apartment a few cities away...filed for a no contest divorve it costs 250, I took nothing but my clothes, had no money but got my freedom and life back and started over.

 

Maybe if you address that youd then have the courage to cut off the addiction. I know your weak and want to share his affection. Its super hard to walk away. But at some point enough is going to be enough for you. He is in a way your replacement husband right now but you get once a week. Its never going to work and Id rather see you end it and keep your dignity. It hurts much more when they end it. Its gotta be you...then work out a divorce.

Edited September 5, 2015 by privategal

[lftbehind]

He would be gone several weeks to several months.

I peiced together too...that just like your mm mine was into bdsm and kink...but not with his wife.

He brought ME into that world sharing with me all his secret famtasies that I dont think he could tell her...so I thought that was pretty deep and crazy he shared it with only me...but you see...his wife was the good girl, nice person, beautiful, great dutiful mom....mom....he saw ME as the bad girl, the sexual vixen disguised as a friend.

He could dial me up...groom me...appeal to my soft side...appear to fall in love...then drop me when he wanted to go back to loving father and husband.

I must have been so blind and whats more...I had a good sex life with my H...average kinda boring, nothing crazy, but good...so that dark side fantasy he pulled me into was mesmerizing....cause frankly I am a good girl too...romantic and loving not a dark vixen like he painted me. But then he would layer in thr friendship and sweet ILY and IMY talk too and share with me work issues and normal stress...it was like I was his entire support and like he was completely attached. Then no warning really he would be gone.

I think he really loved his wife and didnt want to cheat and wgen it got close to going to a PA...he would run. I only wanted to share a kiss truth be told...sex wasn't completely out of my mind but it pretty much was a line we both kept. All EA except for long hugs when we occasionally met up...once every few months.

 

Ugh! So back to you...I hope you can get the courage to divorce. I had a husband who was a gambler and a cheater and I set up a new entry level job and tiny apartment a few cities away...filed for a no contest divorve it costs 250, I took nothing but my clothes, had no money but got my freedom and life back and started over.

 

Maybe if you address that youd then have the courage to cut off the addiction. I know your weak and want to share his affection. Its super hard to walk away. But at some point enough is going to be enough for you. He is in a way your replacement husband right now but you get once a week. Its never going to work and Id rather see you end it and keep your dignity. It hurts much more when they end it. Its gotta be you...then work out a divorce.

 

That's a long time to be gone, it must have hurt you. Why do women have to be either good girls or vixens to guys? I don't like having a label put on me and I feel like I can be both at different times. His wife had no interest in the BDSM and told him that it was twisted. He introduced me to it some when we were together for the first time and I liked some of it. He would write these explicit emails about what he wanted to do and some of it seemed disrespectful. Recently he wanted to have a Master/Slave thing and address him as master. I haven't been doing that. It's actually funny, if you think about it. It's cruel to engage you emotionally and then drop you. I don't know how these guys can hurt us like that. I guess that they're only thinking about themselves. That's good that you never had a PA with him, but I know that the emotional part hurts a lot, too.

That's good that you had the courage to start over. I have started over quite a few times with nothing, too. My husband isn't always bad, but I know eventually my life needs to be settled. He has threatened divorce before, but never does it. I'm not really young, so it's hard and scary to start over. I'm just seeing what happens right now. MM sent an email this morning with no message, just HI in the subject line. That shows how little effort he puts forth for me. I am seeing the reality of the situation with him and I think that it will be better if I end it with him. Hope that you're doing well.

[lftbehind]

P.S. I didn't reply to his email.

[lftbehind]

I think it is perfectly possible to love someone romantically and still cheat on them. Cheaters tend to be very good at compartmentalising their lives.

Love here - sex there.

Love here - friendship there.

Love here - fun there.

 

I think too many OWs underestimate the love that many MM do have for their wives, and I think many MM cheat for "extra", and not because they do not love their wife. Extra sex, extra intimacy, extra attention, extra understanding...etc.

They do not leave, as they can do without the ice-cream, if there is meat and potatoes at home.

 

I think that many MM are good at saying what OWs want to hear, and I think some OWs are good at hearing stuff that he never actually said too. I think also that too many OWs get caught up in the romanticization of the affair and never look at it from the POV of the MM, who is after all just a man trying to juggle two women. He has to try and keep both happy, manage his guilt and avoid being caught, all at the same time.

He necessarily has to lie to both, in order to maintain the status quo.

Too many OWs on LS IMO believe that their MM would never lie to them, and thus get themselves deeply involved in relationships that were never actually meant to be taken seriously in the first place.

 

Too much of this

Him: I love you

Her: I love you too

Him: I really love you.

Her: I really love you too.

Him: Love you more.

Her: When are you leaving your wife?

Him: Erm...not a good time just now.

Her: I thought you loved me.

Him: I do, but there's the kids...

Her: I am happy to look after your kids.

Him: I know you would make a great mother. Look, I truly do love you, if only things were different... maybe next year, when the little one goes to nursery.

Her: Oh, OK then.

...and not enough of this

Him: I love you so much, I have never loved anyone as much as you.

Her: Then leave your wife for me.

Him: Er.. no, not yet.

Her: OK, I'm moving on. Bye.

 

I agree with almost everything, but I don't believe that you can be really be in love with somebody and cheat on them. I don't think that you would be interested and let it happen if you are in love. I know that the MM do compartmentalize. I guess they are just our for what they can use each person for and they and they are the only ones that matter. A lot of the time the OW does think that the MM really cares about her, when he just wants a good time. That's the cruel part, the MM lying to get what he wants at others' expenses. I hope that once in a while they feel some pain, but it doesn't seem like they do.

[lftbehind]

Update-MM contacted me on Monday to ask if I was okay, because he was worried that he hadn't heard from me. We're talking by email again.

[gettingstronger]

I agree with almost everything, but I don't believe that you can be really be in love with somebody and cheat on them. I don't think that you would be interested and let it happen if you are in love. I know that the MM do compartmentalize. I guess they are just our for what they can use each person for and they and they are the only ones that matter. A lot of the time the OW does think that the MM really cares about her, when he just wants a good time. That's the cruel part, the MM lying to get what he wants at others' expenses. I hope that once in a while they feel some pain, but it doesn't seem like they do.

 

 

 

So in your opinion he loves no one? Does it really matter if he loves his wife or not? I am trying to figure out what you are thinking here-

[truncated]

The answer, IMO, is that you can't be in love with someone and cheat on them. Because whatever reason you have for wanting to stray is eclipsed by the knowledge that you would be hurting and betraying your beloved, and that thought would be untenable.

 

.

 

If this is true, then the answer to every ow or om who is being hurt by the affair and who wonders if their mm or mw loves them is "no".

 

How can someone who loves you ask you to put yourself in the position of having to be hurt just so they can get their "fix"?

[lftbehind]

So in your opinion he loves no one? Does it really matter if he loves his wife or not? I am trying to figure out what you are thinking here-

 

Sorry, the whole situation is confusing and I'm just trying to figure it out. I guess that I might not ever really know what MM is thinking,

[lftbehind]

Update-I've had LC with MM and I haven't been sure what to do as far as seeing him. He wrote an email saying that he wanted to see me on Saturday. He only can see me for about half an hour. I wrote and email back to him that I didn't want to interfere with him and his wife and that I knew that his family was the most important thing in his life. I also told him that I didn't want to stop seeing him, but I wanted to do the right thing. He sent an email saying come here at 5:00 then. I wrote back that I wanted to know what he thought about what I wrote. I sent another email saying that I wanted to talk to him before I saw him again and I if I didn't talk with him, for him to have a good weekend. I never said that I would go see him and he didn't reply to either of my emails. I went out to dinner that night with my H and saw MM and his family there. He looked at me. Monday morning I got an email from MM and he was mad that I didn't go to see him on Saturday. He called me a liar and was upset that I was at the restaurant with H. I told MM that I had serious problems with H and would like to leave. He acted like I was lying about it. I replied that I never said that I was going to see him on Sat and I don't lie to him. Does this seem like narcissistic behavior?

[Adoraxx]

yes that sounds totally narcissistic... Getting mad at you for what?? Because he doesn't get his way? It totally reminds me of my MM. Btw, I love what you told him here : "I wrote and email back to him that I didn't want to interfere with him and his wife and that I knew that his family was the most important thing in his life" !!!! it's the truth!!

[lftbehind]

yes that sounds totally narcissistic... Getting mad at you for what?? Because he doesn't get his way? It totally reminds me of my MM. Btw, I love what you told him here : "I wrote and email back to him that I didn't want to interfere with him and his wife and that I knew that his family was the most important thing in his life" !!!! it's the truth!!

 

Yes, I think that he was mad at me, because he didn't get his way and I didn't come to see him. He's into being into control and he knows he doesn't have control over me. When he feels like he has control, it feels like he is always playing mind games with me (push-pull). I have gotten tired of it and don't respond like I used to.