Wanting more...is it too soon???

[stillafool]

I'm rather confused now. I don't know whether or not to ask him questions about the future and our goals based on what I'm reading. Some of you say that it is good to clarify this but others think that it will mess up what we have (kind of similar to having "the talk" in your run of the mill relationship). See above about the 33 questions exercise. Would this be the safe way to go?

 

I too think you should ask just to ease your mind now. Of course what he tells you today might not be how he feels a month or two from now. At least you can have his answer today to throw in his face later on.

[Ms. Faust]

I'm rather confused now. I don't know whether or not to ask him questions about the future and our goals based on what I'm reading.

 

Of course you should communicate with him if you are serious. Do you think he got to the point of cheating on his wife on "no sex" alone?

[ladydesigner]

You sound like you've been in my shoes. I know one thing...if this does not work out for me, I will NEVER get involved with a married man again. It seemed like an OK thing to do while I was with my husband but has been hard since I've been on my own. He's so honest with me though...I think he will tell me the truth if I have the nerve to ask the question. I just have been afraid to show how deeply invested I am in him to this emotional extent. I'm afraid that it will freak him out if I ask OR I will be required to make a hard decision. If he says he will NEVER leave her (which I don't think he can say 100% based on previous comments), I'm afraid that I love him so much and feel so connected to him that I will continue on with him anyway.

 

And REAL relationships should not make you feel this way.

 

It sounds like you want more from this A and your MM has a newborn (most MM will not leave their M's with a newborn as they will feel it is their job to make sure the family is taken care of, his family). Also a man who cheats on his wife after having a baby is usually doing so because he is not #1 right now the baby is, as it should be. And as you know you have an 18 year old, raising babies is hard work and some MM don't like the responsibilities that come with it.

 

It sounds like you are going to do whatever makes YOU feel best. This A is making YOU feel good, but it won't always be like this as time goes on and MM hasn't made any steps closer to leaving his M. That is what a lot of posters are trying to warn you. The more time you spend in this relationship the harder it is to untangle your emotions from someone who is wasting time in your life.

[amomwhoknows]

First, he is a cheat -- so you need to up your skepticism ability. Do you think a MM looking to fool around, tells the OW that things are great at home? I am just looking for sex, ego kibbles, etc?

 

Second, be wary of something called future faking. This is when someone lies about their intentions to keep someone behaving they way they want them too. In other words, he may answer your questions/demands in a way that satisfies you, but really he isn't being honest.

[Got it]

Goodness....so maybe I'm better off not opening this can of worms and seeing where things go naturally??? I found this really awesome article on this page that I follow called Elephant Journal. It has a list of 33 questions that you and your lover answer together. It is designed to strengthen your love and connection with one another. I told him that I want to do this exercise with him and he was all for it. One of the questions is: when we met, how long did you think we would be together? How long do you think we will be together now? Maybe this exercise is the ticket to getting my answers rather than asking him a blunt question. It just so happens it was one of the 33 questions. I didn't make it up myself so it won't look like I have an agenda (even though I kind of do).

 

Reality, I am one that we both did as you are asking, laid out a plan and while dealt with some bobbles along the way are happily married with the host of doomsday warnings that you are seeing here.

 

I am big about speaking my mind so did so. Could I guarantee the outcome? Of course not, but I was accepting of his answers and projections, we had milestones set along the way and I held true to my expectations and timeline because they were important to me.

 

I can't tell you he is going to leave. Just like no one can definitively say he isn't. It is hard to end a marriage, as you are well aware of, and very hard to leave with young children. But it is done and he may.

 

Figure out what you need, what would the final result be, what reassurances do you need to see along the way,and then see by his actions if he is holding to them.

 

No one can predict the future so we all gamble on it. You need to assess what is worth the gamble for you and what is not causing you extend yourself too far. I always advise, be your own best advocate.

 

My point of view was, him being married, was his baby to rock. I was not going to jump through hoops because of it. He would either be able to meet my expectations or not and we would go from there.

[Gus Grimly]

I'm rather confused now. I don't know whether or not to ask him questions about the future and our goals based on what I'm reading.

You have to ask yourself how you'd like to move forward in the relationship. Then ask this man if he shares that vision. Do you really want to go into the unknown NOT knowing? Right now it's a game you both are playing, your participation is at your discretion. You can choose to reveal your cards or see if he is bluffing. How much are you willing to wager on this man?

[Friskyone4u]

No one is judging you at all. They are trying to give you an HONEST opinion based on the odds of where you are leading yourself. If you can get past the fact that very few married men leave their wife for their OW, why would you expect different advice.

 

Ask him anything you want. You have that right. But you are asking a man who is cheating on his wife ( and most men do that primarily for sex if you do some reading) to make some sort of commitment to giving you more than you are getting at some fututre point.

 

You are an adult. You can take the advice of one of the posters who said it's great what you are doing, just wirte up a list of expectations and carry on with your affair. But that does not change the odds of what the end result will be.

 

You are not supposed to I guess be dating in public yet from what you said, so now you are in an exciting New relationship with all the illicit thrills that any affair brings.

 

You are totally entitled to carry on if you want to and you will, but it is not attacking you telling you the likely results.

[Reality1228]

You have to ask yourself how you'd like to move forward in the relationship. Then ask this man if he shares that vision. Do you really want to go into the unknown NOT knowing? Right now it's a game you both are playing, your participation is at your discretion. You can choose to reveal your cards or see if he is bluffing. How much are you willing to wager on this man?

 

I guess the thing is right now, what do I really have to lose? The way I see it, I have until my divorce is final to have it truly figured out. I know that leaves 10 or 11 months for us to explore our relationship, figure out what we want and make some decisions. Who says I will want to commit to him at that time? I'm going to lay it out like that. I'm not going to give him an ultimatum of me or her. I'm going to ask him to be thinking about where he wants our relationship to go during that time period and if he thinks it may ever be in the cards that he would get out of his current situation. I could use some help with how to word all of this.

[Babs22]

You sound like you've been in my shoes. I know one thing...if this does not work out for me, I will NEVER get involved with a married man again. It seemed like an OK thing to do while I was with my husband but has been hard since I've been on my own. He's so honest with me though...I think he will tell me the truth if I have the nerve to ask the question. I just have been afraid to show how deeply invested I am in him to this emotional extent. I'm afraid that it will freak him out if I ask OR I will be required to make a hard decision. If he says he will NEVER leave her (which I don't think he can say 100% based on previous comments), I'm afraid that I love him so much and feel so connected to him that I will continue on with him anyway.

 

Hi Reality, I have been in a R with a MM for 2.5 years and I am also married. I have two kids, the youngest is 17 and my MM has none. When I think back to the first year of our A, I really thought we would end up together. I couldn't imagine otherwise. During that year, he would say, nobody gets hurt and I never asked what he meant. It seemed like someone would get hurt, and I started to think it would be me. At the one year mark of our R, I was upset one day and ready to leave my H. My MM said that he wasn't ready to leave his W and didn't know when he would be, he wanted me to know that I would be doing this on my own. That was my first dose of reality. Prior to that, I figured it would take time, but we would be together.

 

My advice, now is the time to have a very honest and open discussion. I wish I had had that discussion very early in my A. I have read a lot of stories on here, and I am in full agreement, most MM do not leave their wives. I have read some stories where they did leave there wives and went with their AP only to eventually return to their wives. My MM doesn't have kids holding him to his wife, but there are many other reasons a MM doesn't leave his wife; financial hit, his family, her family, their friends, his status as a MM, guilt, wanting to be the good guy. He knew he never wanted to hurt his wife. He may not love her, he may love me, but that is not enough to make him want to turn his world upside down.

 

Your last line that I put in bold, is pretty much where I am. We remain status quo and nothing has changed. He is married, I am married. The learning curve for me figuring out what this relationship is or will be has had some painful lessons/realizations. I have yet to ask the tough questions, I think deep down I know the answers. So, I stay to see where things go naturally. I stay because I love him so much and feel so connected to him that I will continue on with him anyway. And I will probably stay until I get tired of being the OW.

 

It doesn't matter how you ask the question, just ask, or don't and you might be in the same place as me in two years. Personally, I think it would be very difficult for a man to leave his wife and three kids. I hope you do get the answers to your questions.

[carhill]

I would like to know if the possibility for a "real future" exists between us though.

Anything is possible. Depends on the people involved and their personalities.

If he thinks that he might EVER consider leaving her to be with me.

He's probably already considered it. Working out scenarios isn't uncommon for men. We compartmentalize pretty well and can certainly create a 'my affair partner and me together forever' box to examine from time to time without impacting other interactions

Is it dangerous to ask this question?

Dangerous? I doubt it. You might disturb his box though, if it's not out for examination. Some guys don't like that.

How do you ask it?

Well, you're apparently separated and getting a divorce. Those are actions. Ask him how he feels about that.

And is that what he is telling me with what he said above turning the page/hard decisions? HELP! I'm going nuts!

What he said can be carbon dioxide or it can be his concrete plan or a mix. Again, depends on the person.

 

Back when I was involved in this milieu, I had a plan, executed it and have been divorced five years. The difference is I ejected both wife and affair partner, having seen the unhealthiness of both interactions. Unknown what the future holds for your guy and yourself. There's billions of us around and we all interact differently. Good luck!

[Quiet Storm]

It seems like many MW are willing to change their lives for love and connection, but most MM are not. Even if they love the OW. They don't want a replacement wife. They want OW to supplement their existing marriage. They don't want to change their lives, they just want to enhance their current life.

 

You should straight up ask him. Hopefully he won't string you along. I think many MM know that OW will eventually get tired of it and want more, but they happily ride that wave until OW reaches the "Enough!" point. So hopefully your MM will be kind enough to let you go so that you can move on and seek the life you want.

[Reality1228]

Dangerous? I doubt it. You might disturb his box though, if it's not out for examination. Some guys don't like that.

 

 

Carhill...I love what you have to say...very insightful. This is my issue. I am afraid that I am going to mess up our current situation which is going quite well by pressing the issue out of my own insecurity. Do I appear secure by being direct and asking questions that I need answers to OR do I appear insecure by needing reassurance from him? I'm 41 years old and I am just over playing games in relationships. He has requested brutal honestly from me. He said that he will never get mad at me if I am honest. He may get upset but there is a difference. We've NEVER had a fight. I told him off once and he said that he was glad I did it because he deserved it. I'm supposed to see him tonight but I don't know if I want to ruin our precious time together with this. Although, I would never do it via phone or text...it has to be face to face so I can gauge his reaction and get an immediate response.

[Dancewithme]

Dear OP, I have been so moved by your situation that I stopped lurking on this forum, and registered so I could respond to you.

 

Please, I am not judging you, you honestly sound very nice, and seem to be caught in an unfortunate situation. Of your own creation, I may add. I have never been a BS, but know many of them. And I have seen what many posters here have tried to tell you, the OM will not leave his wife for you. A tired wife, young children, a newborn, a post-partum body all add up to OM not being number one at home. As I recovered from a c-section, he wanted to golf. Some men can't cope with that. My own husband at times seemed jealous of the attention and time I gave our kids when they were young, and needy. To the point that I exhausted myself to make sure I gave him the attention he needed. He felt like an extra kid sometimes. He has since matured into fatherhood, and is ok now. That may be where your OM is. Nurturing and Fatherhood is not intuitive for all guys.

 

What is in this relationship for you? You are a dirty little secret, providing a distraction and attention to a man who sounds like he needs to re-focus on home, and re-commit to his duty as a father and husband. It sounds like his wife needs him more than ever now. As a mother, how does that really square with you? Your child is old enough to know what's up, how do you face your child? Maybe your husband wasn't the husband and father he needed to be for you, does that make it OK for you to make it easy for your OM not to be the husband and father he should be for his family?

 

I am trying hard not to be judge mental, but asking hard questions.

 

Maybe you should let him go, and let him tend to home. Tend to yourself. You deserve to be in a relationship where your partner can have you out in the open. Where you can share your relationship with friends and family without judgement. Where you don't have to wonder what his true intentions are. Where a family is not destroyed in your own pursuit of happiness. I was always taught that we should not seek our happiness at the expense of someone else's. You are leaving a marriage, with a child in tow. Maybe you should spend your energy to making sure you and your child are OK, without the doubts of this relationship hanging over your head.

 

My own sister was in your shoes. The car he used to visit her in still had the car seat and window shade in it for his newborn. I gave her the same advice. She cut him loose, went through what can only be described as withdrawal. She says when the "fog lifted" the situation was so clear to her, she couldn't believe she was in it. Good luck to you!

[Reality1228]

Dancewithme...what is in it for me? I have been in many relationships over the years and I have NEVER felt the connection that I have with this man...emotionally, physically, spiritually. I don't know if it will ever amount to anything at this point, but I feel like I can't trade it in for something less without giving it my ALL. The thought of losing him physically takes my breath away.

He has told me that he doesn't feel the way about her that he does about me. He told me that he loved me long before I told him. It is not just about the sex--it is the connection on every level. When he looks in my eyes, he sees straight through me and understands like no one ever has. Neither of us have been here before. We are not serial cheaters. He has only ever been with his wife and she has only been with him. They are for the most part not intimate at all now. They may have had sex five times in the past year. And that connection is growing weaker which is making their emotional connection grow weaker as well.

My son just left and went away to college. He has no idea of this circumstance. He is being well taken care and I have made sure that it has no impact on him. He is my number one priority. I so appreciate your comments and the fact that you signed up to talk to me. I don't know if I am being delusional but I cannot see myself without him at this point.

[Curdie]

Dancewithme...what is in it for me? I have been in many relationships over the years and I have NEVER felt the connection that I have with this man...emotionally, physically, spiritually. I don't know if it will ever amount to anything at this point, but I feel like I can't trade it in for something less without giving it my ALL. The thought of losing him physically takes my breath away.

He has told me that he doesn't feel the way about her that he does about me. He told me that he loved me long before I told him. It is not just about the sex--it is the connection on every level. When he looks in my eyes, he sees straight through me and understands like no one ever has. Neither of us have been here before. We are not serial cheaters. He has only ever been with his wife and she has only been with him. They are for the most part not intimate at all now. They may have had sex five times in the past year. And that connection is growing weaker which is making their emotional connection grow weaker as well.

My son just left and went away to college. He has no idea of this circumstance. He is being well taken care and I have made sure that it has no impact on him. He is my number one priority. I so appreciate your comments and the fact that you signed up to talk to me. I don't know if I am being delusional but I cannot see myself without him at this point.

 

Feelings pass. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, can sustain that level of infatuation in a long term, socially accepted relationship. Humans just aren't designed to experience those emotions constantly. Either you take breaks from one another on a regular basis to keep the obsession alive or it dies. And once the infatuation subsides you're going to be stuck with cold hard facts. You are giving your all to a man who abandoned his wife six months postpartum with two other kids to care for. He checked out of his family life before the newest addition could start solids! It doesn't matter if you're his first affair. The fact remains that he made himself open to an affair while his wife was busy taking care of his newborn. It shows a major character flaw. Not exactly stellar husband material. And being with you isn't going to change who he is.

 

Do yourself a favor and run far, far away.

[Quiet Storm]

You are falling into the trap that so many OW fall into though. The love trap. The, "We have this amazing love and once in a lifetime connection. He is disconnected and not in love with his wife. He can't live like that forever. He'll eventually choose me, choose love, choose connection. I just have to hang in there."

 

You have faith in your love, which is understandable, but you are also hoping and expecting that the love will prompt MM to divorce. It rarely happens. So many OW have faith in their love for MM because they genuinely see his love for her in MMs eyes and emotions. The problem is that the emotions don't change the outcome, and this assumption (we love each other=we will be together) leads many OW to waste years waiting

 

You are thinking that love, connection, intimacy is the "end all, be all", the motivating factor for MM, when in most cases, it simply isn't. It's just not essential enough to them to divorce. It doesn't mean they don't love you or value the connection with you. But it does mean that your chances of transitioning to a legitimate relationship are small.

[goodyblue]

My h left his ex and we have been together for some years now.

 

The thing i see with the relationships that work out is the people involved make a concrete plan to exit their relationship and be with the AP. They have specific steps that they take, checkpoints along the way to gauge progress, and a definite do or die exit date.

 

I checked these things regularly to make sure my h was still on track. If things would have stalled or he hadn't left by the agreed time I would have walked. Thankfully he.stuck to it and we have been happy together for some time.

 

The thing about your situation is the ages of his children. 3 kids that young shows they have until recently had a decent sex life. Also men have a great need to take care of their children. The difference between my h and your guy is my h went the last 12 years with no sexual our emotional intimacy. And his child was raised.

 

Those will be your biggest road blocks.

 

And I feel you have the right to ask him anything you like regarding your relationship. And he is obliged to answer with honesty.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[ladydesigner]

Dancewithme...what is in it for me? I have been in many relationships over the years and I have NEVER felt the connection that I have with this man...emotionally, physically, spiritually. I don't know if it will ever amount to anything at this point, but I feel like I can't trade it in for something less without giving it my ALL. The thought of losing him physically takes my breath away.

He has told me that he doesn't feel the way about her that he does about me. He told me that he loved me long before I told him. It is not just about the sex--it is the connection on every level. When he looks in my eyes, he sees straight through me and understands like no one ever has. Neither of us have been here before. We are not serial cheaters. He has only ever been with his wife and she has only been with him. They are for the most part not intimate at all now. They may have had sex five times in the past year. And that connection is growing weaker which is making their emotional connection grow weaker as well.

My son just left and went away to college. He has no idea of this circumstance. He is being well taken care and I have made sure that it has no impact on him. He is my number one priority. I so appreciate your comments and the fact that you signed up to talk to me. I don't know if I am being delusional but I cannot see myself without him at this point.

 

My WH told the MOW we weren't having sex either. We were having sex 2-3 times a week all throughout his A, and it wasn't vanilla sex. MM will say whatever they need to say. You believe this because he told you? Also their connection is not going to be strong especially if he isn't helping much with the baby (which it doesn't sound like if he is having an A:rolleyes:)

 

The fact remains that he made himself open to an affair while his wife was busy taking care of his newborn. It shows a major character flaw. Not exactly stellar husband material. And being with you isn't going to change who he is.

 

So much truth in the above post.

 

OP it sounds like you would sacrifice yourself for this man. Is he really worth that much? I get that you have a strong connection, but to stay in a situation where you feel like

The thought of losing him physically takes my breath away.

that could not be a pleasant feeling. Also I'm sure his wife would feel like her breath was taken away too if she knew what her husband is up to.

[eye of the storm]

Reality, I am pretty straight forward. I got into an A while I was going thru my D. I was not in a good place and acted out in an unhealthy manner, just like you did.

 

After many years I told my MM that I wanted more. I had gotten to the point where I needed things he couldn't give me in our current relationship. He stated honestly that he wasn't in a place where he was willing to leave his W. He loved me, he didn't want to lose me, but he wasn't willing to leave her.

 

I was lucky. Many WS future fake to keep the AP hooked. Mine was honest about his intentions. But I am still hurt.

 

I would ask one question, and you should think about it. You just left a bad marriage. You are currently in a relationship with someone you are afraid to be open and honest with. You are afraid of the fallout from opening yourself to him and telling him your true deep down feelings.

 

Is that the kind of relationship you think is healthy? Is that the kind of relationship you want to be in?

[Ms. Faust]

My ex husband left his wife for me when I was all of 20 and he was 29. He was rather quick about it, within 3 months of our affair he bailed on her. I had a horrible relationship with his young son... He hated me and rightfully so. But the ex and I stuck it out for 10 years. Then I cheated, then the ex cheated, then I cheated again. Then we both said fugit and divorced, thank God.

 

We both went on to meet singles, and started families.

 

I learned a lot from the horrible time in my life, but that is the condensed version of my experience.

[ladydesigner]

My h left his ex and we have been together for some years now.

 

The thing i see with the relationships that work out is the people involved make a concrete plan to exit their relationship and be with the AP. They have specific steps that they take, checkpoints along the way to gauge progress, and a definite do or die exit date.

 

I checked these things regularly to make sure my h was still on track. If things would have stalled or he hadn't left by the agreed time I would have walked. Thankfully he.stuck to it and we have been happy together for some time.

 

The thing about your situation is the ages of his children. 3 kids that young shows they have until recently had a decent sex life. Also men have a great need to take care of their children. The difference between my h and your guy is my h went the last 12 years with no sexual our emotional intimacy. And his child was raised.

 

Those will be your biggest road blocks.

 

And I feel you have the right to ask him anything you like regarding your relationship. And he is obliged to answer with honesty.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

It does seem like the relationships that work out for the OW and MM are just like goodyblue's situation and there are a few more on here too.

 

My parents situation was the same. They were both married when they met and left their spouses almost immediately (within months) to be together. There was no push and pull. They just did it.

[Reality1228]

My WH told the MOW we weren't having sex either. We were having sex 2-3 times a week all throughout his A, and it wasn't vanilla sex. MM will say whatever they need to say. You believe this because he told you? Also their connection is not going to be strong especially if he isn't helping much with the baby (which it doesn't sound like if he is having an A:rolleyes:)

 

 

 

So much truth in the above post.

 

OP it sounds like you would sacrifice yourself for this man. Is he really worth that much? I get that you have a strong connection, but to stay in a situation where you feel like that could not be a pleasant feeling. Also I'm sure his wife would feel like her breath was taken away too if she knew what her husband is up to.

 

 

The reason I know about their sex life is that he tells me every detail. He is that honest to the point of me not being sure that I want to hear about it. He has told me of every sexual encounter they have had since we have been together down to what happened. In the beginning, it felt natural to talk about these things and they didn't bug us much when we were with our respective spouses. Now, it is more hurtful and usually addressed when I ask but he has hidden nothing from me. She does not initiate sex. He is usually blown off if he does ever initiate the act like on her birthday for instance (because it has always occurred then prior). I would say there was a possibility that he was lying like you say but I don't know of a time when he has ever lied to me about sex or anything else even if the truth hurt me. All the more reason, to ask my questions for peace of mind.

[goodyblue]

It does seem like the relationships that work out for the OW and MM are just like goodyblue's situation and there are a few more on here too.

 

My parents situation was the same. They were both married when they met and left their spouses almost immediately (within months) to be together. There was no push and pull. They just did it.

 

I think that with my h, he just could not stand being deceptive and while he never actively lied he certainly omitted. Also, my ex was not just bored, he was miserable.

 

Our relationship now is not all sunshine and roses, but it is a real, true relationship and we are happy. People always say the connection changes when you have to do all the wife stuff. Not the case with us but it is more real... a more whole relationship if that makes sense.

[Reality1228]

My h left his ex and we have been together for some years now.

 

The thing i see with the relationships that work out is the people involved make a concrete plan to exit their relationship and be with the AP. They have specific steps that they take, checkpoints along the way to gauge progress, and a definite do or die exit date.

 

I checked these things regularly to make sure my h was still on track. If things would have stalled or he hadn't left by the agreed time I would have walked. Thankfully he.stuck to it and we have been happy together for some time.

 

The thing about your situation is the ages of his children. 3 kids that young shows they have until recently had a decent sex life. Also men have a great need to take care of their children. The difference between my h and your guy is my h went the last 12 years with no sexual our emotional intimacy. And his child was raised.

 

Those will be your biggest road blocks.

 

And I feel you have the right to ask him anything you like regarding your relationship. And he is obliged to answer with honesty.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

 

Goodyblue, I'm six months in. I don't know if it's too soon to be asking him for a gameplan. I would like to know more about how you and your husband got to that point.

[Reality1228]

Reality, I am pretty straight forward. I got into an A while I was going thru my D. I was not in a good place and acted out in an unhealthy manner, just like you did.

 

After many years I told my MM that I wanted more. I had gotten to the point where I needed things he couldn't give me in our current relationship. He stated honestly that he wasn't in a place where he was willing to leave his W. He loved me, he didn't want to lose me, but he wasn't willing to leave her.

 

I was lucky. Many WS future fake to keep the AP hooked. Mine was honest about his intentions. But I am still hurt.

 

I would ask one question, and you should think about it. You just left a bad marriage. You are currently in a relationship with someone you are afraid to be open and honest with. You are afraid of the fallout from opening yourself to him and telling him your true deep down feelings.

 

Is that the kind of relationship you think is healthy? Is that the kind of relationship you want to be in?

 

 

Eye of the storm...I like what you say. He has begged me for brutal honesty and I have been more open and honest with him about my feelings than I ever have with anyone in my life. I finally have reached a point where I can be vulnerable with a man. I need to be honest with him about what I am feeling because I am hurting by not doing so. If it's too much for him (which I can't see when he is in this deep) then we are not meant to be longterm. I would have my answer.