Wanting more...is it too soon???

[ladydesigner]

Eye of the storm...I like what you say. He has begged me for brutal honesty and I have been more open and honest with him about my feelings than I ever have with anyone in my life. I finally have reached a point where I can be vulnerable with a man. I need to be honest with him about what I am feeling because I am hurting by not doing so. If it's too much for him (which I can't see when he is in this deep) then we are not meant to be longterm. I would have my answer.

 

(((Reality))) I think you have your answer. I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. I think you should be brave and ask.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue, I'm six months in. I don't know if it's too soon to be asking him for a gameplan. I would like to know more about how you and your husband got to that point.

 

There is no 'too soon'. This is your life. If you plan to share it with him the time is now. Most of the time affairs that turn open do so when the affair is short. Ours was less than a year, with a plan in place only a couple of months in. The reason is that HE was initiating conversation about leaving. This point of the relationship is crucial because lots of MM say they are leaving, future fake and never really plan to leave. Even if they think they do, they realize they can't, won't.

 

H he holds all the cards in whether he leaves. You hold the cards whether you believe him and wait. Or walk. It is tough.

[Cymbeline]

'about their sex life is that he tells me every detail. He is that honest to the point of me not being sure that I want to hear about it. He has told me of every sexual encounter they have had since we have been together down to what happened. '

 

Just why?

[eye of the storm]

'about their sex life is that he tells me every detail. He is that honest to the point of me not being sure that I want to hear about it. He has told me of every sexual encounter they have had since we have been together down to what happened.

 

This is just a bit creepy to me. Why would a man talk about every detail of his sexual life with one woman to another? Is he trying to see just how far he can push boundaries?

 

Why would he degrade his W like this to you? It is one thing to say "we rarely/never have sex" (which with 3 young kids is obviously a lie) but to describe encounters in detail to another woman you are sleeping with is super scummy.

 

This guy is not the good person your affair fog is telling you he is.

[Reality1228]

'about their sex life is that he tells me every detail. He is that honest to the point of me not being sure that I want to hear about it. He has told me of every sexual encounter they have had since we have been together down to what happened. '

 

Just why?

 

 

In the beginning, it was sexual attraction and we did a lot of dirty talking and pushing our limits. Then, he fell in love with me which was not part of our intended plan because we were both married. Like I said, now I generally have to ask about their sexual encounters (which have been few and very far between). He does not provide all the detail that he did in the beginning but would certainly answer any questions that I had. He is just very straight forward. Like I said...no surprises. Total honesty.

[Reality1228]

Oh, and the lull in their sex life started while she was pregnant and never got better afterwards. He said that it was pretty normal until then.

[eye of the storm]

Hormones. Some women go nuts sexually during their pregnancy. Others decrease how much sex they want and need. I can only imagine how tired a pregnant woman with 2 young children would be. And I can sympathize with her not wanting sex as much.

 

Also, considering how much time and effort this guy is putting into you, he is leaving the brunt of childcare/housework to a woman who just gave birth and now has 3 young children pulling at her skirt.

 

Even if you ask, how scummy does a guy have to be give you details like that on his W. Does he discuss her weight, the pimples on her face, the granny panties she wears when laundry piles up?

 

But you are not going to see the rot behind the façade he is showing you. You are in love.

 

But you love a fantasy. You do not love the guy that you have to compromise on bills with, you do not love the guy day in and day out in good times and bad, you do not love the guy that has flaws like any other human does. The reason is because he is that guy with her. His wife. With you he is footloose and fancy free. He can be what ever he wants to be with you because the mortgage/bills/children/life is with her. The fantasy is with you.

 

I am sorry. Like Satu likes to say, an A is a fantasy. It is not reality.

[Curdie]

In the beginning, it was sexual attraction and we did a lot of dirty talking and pushing our limits. Then, he fell in love with me which was not part of our intended plan because we were both married. Like I said, now I generally have to ask about their sexual encounters (which have been few and very far between). He does not provide all the detail that he did in the beginning but would certainly answer any questions that I had. He is just very straight forward. Like I said...no surprises. Total honesty.

 

So, let's go over everything you know about this guy objectively. You know that he was looking for a casual affair when his youngest was less than six months old. Clearly he's not an involved father because an involved parent of two young kids and a newborn simply wouldn't have the time or energy to go looking for an AP, much less make the time to carry out the actual affair. It's pretty obvious that the BW was probably getting little to no help with the kids, which would explain why she's (supposedly) not responding to his sexual advances. You know that he has no qualms about sharing intimate, embarrassing details of his vulnerable wife's postpartum sexual encounters with his casual AP. And most importantly, you know that he has been lying to her for six months while she raises his three young children. He has been keeping your existence secret so that he can keep his wife in his house and raising his kids while he simultaneously has a relationship with you.

 

Does any of this sound like a person you would want to share your life with? If your sister or friend was considering spending her life with someone that fits this description what would you say to her?

[Ms. Faust]

Yeah, I was pregnant earlier this year. I spent a lot of time on pregnancy forums and the majority of women were not feeling it in reagrds to sex. Who could blame them? They are carrying around 15-20 lbs of extra weight on top of all the other crappy symptoms that comes with pregnancy.

 

Aaaand depending on the type of birth she had recovery is not a cake walk. It can take women well up to year to be back in the swing of things sexually.

 

I was lucky, my sex drive greatly increased, and we were bumpin' uglies at 4 weeks postpartum, but that is not common.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[Reality1228]

So, let's go over everything you know about this guy objectively. You know that he was looking for a casual affair when his youngest was less than six months old. Clearly he's not an involved father because an involved parent of two young kids and a newborn simply wouldn't have the time or energy to go looking for an AP, much less make the time to carry out the actual affair. It's pretty obvious that the BW was probably getting little to no help with the kids, which would explain why she's (supposedly) not responding to his sexual advances. You know that he has no qualms about sharing intimate, embarrassing details of his vulnerable wife's postpartum sexual encounters with his casual AP. And most importantly, you know that he has been lying to her for six months while she raises his three young children. He has been keeping your existence secret so that he can keep his wife in his house and raising his kids while he simultaneously has a relationship with you.

 

Does any of this sound like a person you would want to share your life with? If your sister or friend was considering spending her life with someone that fits this description what would you say to her?

 

Honestly we were neither one looking for an affair. We met on a chat app because we were both looking for someone to talk to about our problems. Much like this site. Nobody on the site was local bc we live in the middle of nowhere basically. It turned out we lived ten minutes from each other. Our friendship had already blossomed when we met. We were immediately attracted and shortly thereafter became intimate. No affair intended. Sorry if I implied that.

[goodyblue]

Yeah, I was pregnant earlier this year. I spent a lot of time on pregnancy forums and the majority of women were not feeling it. Who could blame them? They are carrying around 15-20 lbs of extra weight on top of all the other crappy symptoms that comes with pregnancy.

 

Aaaand depending on the type of birth she had recovery is not a cake walk. It can take women well up to year to be back in the swing of things sexually.

 

I was lucky, my sex drive greatly increased, and we were bumpin' uglies at 4 weeks postpartum, but that is not common.

 

Okay... I am going to come off as a Neanderthal here, or a wife from Little House On The Prairie, but I believe it is a wife's job to make sure her husband does not feel neglected. Sorry... I just believe that if you have a good sex life it goes a long way in helping to get past other issues you may have. Not making excuses for cheating, it is disastrous in most cases, but you can't just ignore your husband sexually for 18 months and think it is okay.

[Curdie]

Honestly we were neither one looking for an affair. We met on a chat app because we were both looking for someone to talk to about our problems. Much like this site. Nobody on the site was local bc we live in the middle of nowhere basically. It turned out we lived ten minutes from each other. Our friendship had already blossomed when we met. We were immediately attracted and shortly thereafter became intimate. No affair intended. Sorry if I implied that.

 

Online emotional affairs are still affairs. If he weren't looking for an affair he would have directed that energy into his wife and kids or real life friends, not some chat app. Your friendship was inappropriate and he knew it. Did he ever introduce you to his wife?

 

Honey, you are trying so hard to defend this scumbag. So much so that you ignored the rest of my post and zeroed in on whether or not neglecting your wife and young kids for a chat app is actually looking for an affair. Logically, you know that he is not a good person.

[Ms. Faust]

Okay... I am going to come off as a Neanderthal here, or a wife from Little House On The Prairie, but I believe it is a wife's job to make sure her husband does not feel neglected. Sorry... I just believe that if you have a good sex life it goes a long way in helping to get past other issues you may have. Not making excuses for cheating, it is disastrous in most cases, but you can't just ignore your husband sexually for 18 months and think it is okay.

 

Oh no, I totally agree. I think withholding sex or using sex as bribery is a terrible thing, and from what I have read I think many betrayed wives undermine the importance of sex. I actually read one BW say that talking is a good replacement for physical intimacy and my jaw dropped.

But postpartum disinterest in sex is different, because labor does such a number on a woman's body. Our cervix is basically that of menopausal woman after birth, which makes for painful sex. And it stays that way for months, that is not including the raging hormones that go along with it, the change of family life, having to keep up with kids/ jobs, etc etc.

[goodyblue]

Oh no, I totally agree. I think withholding sex or using sex as bribery is a terrible thing, and from what I have read I think many betrayed wives undermine the importance of sex. I actually read one BW talk about talking as a good replacement for physical intimacy and my jaw dropped.

But postpartum disinterest in sex is different, because labor does such a number on a woman's body. Our cervix is basically that of menopausal woman after birth, which makes for painful sex. And it stays that way for months, that is not including the raging hormones that go along with it, the change of family life, having to keep up with kids/ jobs, etc etc.

 

I won't totally discount that but I have six kids, I never had trouble and I don't know anyone else who did either. I see more women just not have interest and that is not fair. If sex is painful a Dr. Apt is in order. Again, if you neglect your man, it is going to be a problem. Plan on it.

[Ms. Faust]

I won't totally discount that but I have six kids, I never had trouble and I don't know anyone else who did either. I see more women just not have interest and that is not fair. If sex is painful a Dr. Apt is in order. Again, if you neglect your man, it is going to be a problem. Plan on it.

 

Yeah, but that is your experience, pregnancy is VERY different for everyone. That being said, it is common for the sex drive to decline during and after with all the hormonal adjustments.

 

And I agree, I think some women really take advantage of having the say of when to have sex. And they should see a doctor. But I would be preaching to the choir when I say that the MM having an affair is not going to help in the long run, either.

[goodyblue]

Yeah, but that is your experience, pregnancy is VERY different for everyone. That being said, it is common for the sex drive to decline during and after with all the hormonal adjustments.

 

And I agree, I think some women really take advantage of having the say of when to have sex. And they should see a doctor. But I would be preaching to the choir when I say that the MM having an affair is not going to help in the long run, either.

 

Hah! I would say you are correct... an affair most certainly will not help.

[eye of the storm]

Some women get a higher sex drive during pregnancy. Others drop. And I have a friend with 4 kids and she said during her 2nd and 4th pregnancies sex actually made her nauseous. Needless to say, she was not in the mood. Her H likes to joke that her 4th pregnancy is why they don't have 5 kids.

 

While I agree that choosing to shut your spouse out sexually is a reason to leave a marriage. There is a thing about sickness and health most of us had in our vows. If your spouse is going through medical issues that is causing sexual problems, then that is a totally different ball game. Work on getting them thru that and then resume what was a normal health sex life.

 

The OP was working on leaving her M. Good for her. The A was an exit affair for her. It isn't for him.

[Dancewithme]

I think you are in the neuro-transmitter induced, euphoric brain state of infatuation, and any advice that suggests you ditch this prize of a MM will fall on deaf ears. You are firmly entrenched in the affair fog, and cannot see this man, or this relationship for the bad news that it is.

 

I have seen first hand what the OW, and BS's go through in the aftermath of affairs, and it ain't pretty. We should not want to be a party to bringing that sort of devastation on ourselves, or another human being. I know the saying" the heart wants what the heart wants", but sometimes, we have to do what is best for us and everyone involved, and tell the heart what it needs instead.

 

You have not given yourself a chance as your marriage was ending to find a relationship that builds you up, a relationship that you don't mind your college-aged child knowing about, a relationship to be proud of. Because you were in a bad situation, it was easy to be attracted to a dude who made you feel special and sexy. Shame he wasn't doing that at home to his wife, sounds like she really needed that kind of validation.

 

I hope you think about some of the comments shared here. The thought of what you will probably end up facing if you continue with him has me worried for . This guy sounds like a loser, and when your divorce is final, you have the opportunity to do so much better.

 

I apologize if I sound harsh, I'm trying not to be. I'm just remembering what my sister went through.

[m4p]

I'm rather confused now. I don't know whether or not to ask him questions about the future and our goals based on what I'm reading. Some of you say that it is good to clarify this but others think that it will mess up what we have (kind of similar to having "the talk" in your run of the mill relationship). See above about the 33 questions exercise. Would this be the safe way to go?

 

Well sorry to burst your bubble, this is not a run-of-the-mill relationship. If it works out, this might possibly lead to a second marriage/long term relationship for the both of you. You are not in your early twenties doing the dating scene. There's simply no more need to be playing guessing games or he-loves-me-he-loves-me-not... do you get what I am saying?

 

Also, if he is as honest to you as you say he is, why are you holding back and thinking so much about asking him a simple question? If you can't be honest about your feelings or even your daily thoughts to your supposed love of your life, is this relationship really workable?

 

Gently, ask yourself, are you afraid of it being a bad timing thing or are you really just afraid of hearing the answer?

 

Throughout my 2 year A, I too, always firmly believed that my xMM was 100% honest to me. I gathered that from his thoughtful behavior, the way it wasn't all about sex, the daily interactions, his advice to me for my life.............. sounds familiar? YUP your MM is not the only MM in the world who is nice, thoughtful and makes you feel that the connection is real.

 

So what if he is seemingly honest to you most of the time? That's a given in any relationship/friendship/interaction even between strangers. That does not say anything about his character. This affair is what truly speaks about his character (and yours naturally), and this is what you are supposed to be actually pondering about.

 

And yup. A man can love you, sure, but it takes a REAL MAN to do what is needed to do and fight for it if he wants it.

 

Seems like he is not doing anything as of now. And if he does, do you really want a man who leaves his family and young children?

 

Just ask him and save yourself these overanalyzing agony.

 

Don't be afraid to push him because it's now or never. Don't waste your life on what ifs and a man who is never gonna leave.

 

Good luck! (and trust me I am coming from a sympathetic position even if I sound otherwise)

[Got it]

Feelings pass. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, can sustain that level of infatuation in a long term, socially accepted relationship. Humans just aren't designed to experience those emotions constantly. Either you take breaks from one another on a regular basis to keep the obsession alive or it dies. And once the infatuation subsides you're going to be stuck with cold hard facts. You are giving your all to a man who abandoned his wife six months postpartum with two other kids to care for. He checked out of his family life before the newest addition could start solids! It doesn't matter if you're his first affair. The fact remains that he made himself open to an affair while his wife was busy taking care of his newborn. It shows a major character flaw. Not exactly stellar husband material. And being with you isn't going to change who he is.

 

Do yourself a favor and run far, far away.

 

 

A side note - I disagree. I am more in love with my husband now than when we met (in an affair) and am still very infatuated with him. Time has not dampened it.

[Got it]

Reality, I am pretty straight forward. I got into an A while I was going thru my D. I was not in a good place and acted out in an unhealthy manner, just like you did.

 

After many years I told my MM that I wanted more. I had gotten to the point where I needed things he couldn't give me in our current relationship. He stated honestly that he wasn't in a place where he was willing to leave his W. He loved me, he didn't want to lose me, but he wasn't willing to leave her.

 

I was lucky. Many WS future fake to keep the AP hooked. Mine was honest about his intentions. But I am still hurt.

 

I would ask one question, and you should think about it. You just left a bad marriage. You are currently in a relationship with someone you are afraid to be open and honest with. You are afraid of the fallout from opening yourself to him and telling him your true deep down feelings.

 

Is that the kind of relationship you think is healthy? Is that the kind of relationship you want to be in?

 

OP - I do think there are some very important questions to answer for yourself especially being afraid to be open and honest. That is a major red flag to look at.

[goodyblue]

A side note - I disagree. I am more in love with my husband now than when we met (in an affair) and am still very infatuated with him. Time has not dampened it.

 

Omg. Same!!

[Curdie]

A side note - I disagree. I am more in love with my husband now than when we met (in an affair) and am still very infatuated with him. Time has not dampened it.

 

Biologically speaking, that is impossible. A romantic thought, but not representative of what goes on in your brain chemically. Simply put, increased exposure to a specific stimulus (your husband) will decrease the level of dopamine and endorphins released after each exposure. The puppy love, honeymoon period, whatever you want to call it is the result of the massive reward your brain is giving you every time you see the other person. Once the novelty wears off the reward stops. These are just simple biological facts.

 

That's not to say that you can't love somebody after the honeymoon period ends. But it's not going to be the same butterflies with every glance, shivers with every touch, tear our clothes off the second we see each other kind of love. The nature of the attachment will inevitably change.

[Got it]

Okay... I am going to come off as a Neanderthal here, or a wife from Little House On The Prairie, but I believe it is a wife's job to make sure her husband does not feel neglected. Sorry... I just believe that if you have a good sex life it goes a long way in helping to get past other issues you may have. Not making excuses for cheating, it is disastrous in most cases, but you can't just ignore your husband sexually for 18 months and think it is okay.

 

I agree, you have to pay attention to what your husband wants/needs but it is vice versa as well. Being pregnant right now , there are effects that aren't part of my norm tied to the hormones and we are already discussing quite heavily the impact of delivery, breastfeeding, etc. on our intimacy. Sex can and will be impacted in the first few weeks and can be impacted much longer. The main hormone for breastfeeding is prolactin which decreases estrogen and can decrease your sex drive especially in the first 4-6 weeks. This is the body's attempts to stop another pregnancy too early. An article I read last night said that while it doesn't impact everyone, continued breastfeeding can continue lowering libido as well as vaginal dryness for months afterwards though no studied showed that it continued after 12 months. Studies did show potentially faster return of sex drive in women who formula fed.

 

But intimacy can be done through other means and one can seek medical attention. But it takes both parties prioritizing and working together on this and some level of understanding of the pure medical reasons why one loses their sex drive. It has nothing to do with a bad sex life prior or even after but that time period during can be impacted without any one person to "blame".

 

So neither party is wrong in how they feel, he is wrong for wanting intimacy and she isn't wrong in being "touched out", hormonal impacted, etc. But it is the, at least attempt, to address and work together.

[Got it]

Biologically speaking, that is impossible. A romantic thought, but not representative of what goes on in your brain chemically. Simply put, increased exposure to a specific stimulus (your husband) will decrease the level of dopamine and endorphins released after each exposure. The puppy love, honeymoon period, whatever you want to call it is the result of the massive reward your brain is giving you every time you see the other person. Once the novelty wears off the reward stops. These are just simple biological facts.

 

That's not to say that you can't love somebody after the honeymoon period ends. But it's not going to be the same butterflies with every glance, shivers with every touch, tear our clothes off the second we see each other kind of love. The nature of the attachment will inevitably change.

 

Curdie, are you saying I am lying or in some why not able to acknowledge and recognize how I am feeling? I feel that is pretty presumptuous on your end.

 

I am sorry you haven't experienced it and I feel for you in your romantic relationships then but I am very confident in saying I recognize, analyze and acknowledge my emotions and feelings throughout my life and relationship and am quite adapt at making the comparison and resulting conclusion. Thank you.

 

And I am not alone in this. There are many others who have similar feelings in long term relationships. What "makes" me want to tear his clothes off may change but the resulting action - desire to have him naked and on me does not change. "Time in position" gives me new data to analyze and appreciate to sustain said "butterflies" and "shivers" as you put it.