15 year anniversary tomorrow and...

[drifter777]

Someone needs to come out with an anniversary card that says " Today is a reminder that I screwed up totally, and I don't deserve you. Now let's have sex - so I can distract you with a BJ and then you'll just kind of let it go for a while"

 

I just had to add this part...

[drifter777]

Trusted: You're not holding on to any anger - it's just there inside you and it's part of the consequences of her affair. Must of us have pretty much agreed that whether the BS finds acceptance or forgiveness it is not a one-time event or some kind of state of mind. It's work and you have to do it over and over again when those triggers hit. Sometimes it's going to boil over - especially when your wife makes such a crass, uncaring comment. She didn't mean it that way at all but, really, does that make it any less hurtful? That her conscience is so clear regarding her cheating that she doesn't even associate your 10th anniversary with what must have been a horrible, painful time for you. But not so much for her? I'm not saying these things went through your mind, consciously, but you've had to live through this and work to reconcile and that wound will never heal over completely. After time passes our triggers are like flash grenades. Our brain has tunneled a path through the neuron's or whatever and, when we trigger, a dozen associations click and hit our minds simultaneously. It's uncontrollable and lashing out now and then is to be expected and in no way means that you are holding her cheating against her on a day-to-day basis. It just means that you've received a permanent injury and it's going to cause some pain and need some attention from time to time.

 

WS's are not going to like this...

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Trusted: You're not holding on to any anger - it's just there inside you and it's part of the consequences of her affair. Must of us have pretty much agreed that whether the BS finds acceptance or forgiveness it is not a one-time event or some kind of state of mind. It's work and you have to do it over and over again when those triggers hit. Sometimes it's going to boil over - especially when your wife makes such a crass, uncaring comment. She didn't mean it that way at all but, really, does that make it any less hurtful? That her conscience is so clear regarding her cheating that she doesn't even associate your 10th anniversary with what must have been a horrible, painful time for you. But not so much for her? I'm not saying these things went through your mind, consciously, but you've had to live through this and work to reconcile and that wound will never heal over completely. After time passes our triggers are like flash grenades. Our brain has tunneled a path through the neuron's or whatever and, when we trigger, a dozen associations click and hit our minds simultaneously. It's uncontrollable and lashing out now and then is to be expected and in no way means that you are holding her cheating against her on a day-to-day basis. It just means that you've received a permanent injury and it's going to cause some pain and need some attention from time to time.

 

WS's are not going to like this...

 

My thoughts exactly. Very well stated.

 

PS - I tried to "celebrate" our anniversary after D-Day by different methods, but I eventually gave up on it all together. Anniversaries are ticking time bombs for BSs.

[nightmare01]

Does a parent ever get over the death of a child? I doubt it. There will always be an ache, a scar, a hole in their heart. I think the experience of a BS is like tht. Life does go on though, and we move on, one day at a time.

 

Triggers happen, and will continue to happen years, even decades into the future. The frequency and severity of these triggers lessen, but they remain nonetheless.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

I also wonder why you would ASK her what gift she wanted, agree to get it for her, and then complain about the price? That, IMO, is far worse than just surprising her with a bouquet of flowers or a handmade card or any other much less expensive gift without complaint. If you are going to ask someone what they want, and then agree to buy it for them, the absolute worst thing you can do is to complain about the price. That invalidates the entire spirit of gift-giving.

 

As I said, though, I think her response was unnecessary and immature as well.

 

Thanks for this, and I have a lot to respond to here, but I wanted to make clear that I did not complain about the price of the watch. I was a little surprised, and literally said " whoa...not cheap huh?"

 

I also don't want to come off like an ass here...but financially, we've been exceedingly fortunate. I don't know how else to say it politely, and wouldn't say it at all if it weren't relevant to this topic.

 

She could have a box of watches like this if she was inclined, based SOLELY on her own income, which is substantial. So the dollar value of what she wanted shouldn't speak to her sense of entitlement. She works her butt off at a very difficult job, in a very competitive environment, and deserves whatever blingy little item she wants. She is in fact quite frugal given our collective means. This is why when I really stepped back to analyze what she said, I realized that she was emotionally justifying an extravagant expense, more so than complaining that I didn't do something 5 years ago.

 

I think I just heard it the way I WANTED to hear it at the time. And I say that here on bended knee for other BS's who may find themselves doing the same stupid thing.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I just find it difficult to get my head around the idea that within the context of a marriage (anniversary gift includes that) that 5 digit gifts have any meaning.

 

Im all for gift giving. But why put so much pressure on 10 15 20 25 years?

Marriage is not a contest to see who gets there for the longer time. It's surely about wanting to be with someone, to share, to offer gifts on a daily bases that have no monetary value. NONE. A beautiful gesture makes more sense to me.

 

Any gesture that says you are sorry for holding the A over her head will probably count for more than a rolex. I hope so anyhow.

 

Agree with this completely, in that the gestures, and in fact the daily routines for outweigh the gifts and the "stuff."

 

Those are what matter, and I could fill several pages with what we DO for eachother on a daily basis to fill that bucket.

 

But... gifts are part of the deal. Everyone has their thing they like, and occasionally she likes a nice gift, even if she has to tell me EXACTLY what that gift is, where to get it, and what size to order, lol.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I just buy cards that are blank inside and try my best to dredge up some gushy words to write.

 

I write the same thing in every card.

 

" I love my wife."

 

signed, T&B.

 

but this year I also printed up 15 Quotes on marriage. One for each year. ( some mushy, some direct ) and placed them in the card like little fortune cookie strips. Years 1 and 9 have quotes that she no doubt understood were tied to what was going on during those years. And the quotes from years 10 and beyond were mostly about the future, and about how marriage is work, but worth it.

 

Not so heavy as to ruin the mood, but also I thought a creative way to let her know that I'm looking at the big picture. Always.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I am totally sincere when I say this, but you are still one of my heroes on here.

 

Mistakes will happen and I have nothing but respect for those that continue to work things out everyday. People always say that after an affair, the relationship is never the same again. It's always work and you never totally get over the affair.

 

But recently I've had the revelation that ALL relationships are work and they should never be the same as yesterday's relationship. It should be better because you are both working on it.

 

If it is the same as it's always been, then you are no longer trying and are just coasting hoping that there's not a wolf at your door.

 

Thanks for this. Folks like you are the only reason I come back here to post about my blowups and their aftermath.

[spanz1]

I think you handled that perfectly fine. if she was cheating on you during your 10th anniversary...then she really can not be pissed you bought her nothing special. If she DOES feel that way, then she is just a selfish biyatch who you really should have thought twice about reconciling with.

[firemanq]

Off topic some, but I do not like buying gifts and I like getting gifts even less. I think it is because we are "expected" to give expensive gifts, even if we cannot afford them. A carryover of my spoiled wife, who always wanted to know the price. That took all the enjoyment away for me. And a carryover from my mother who always had to let us know that even if she could not afford the gifts, she bought them anyway. In my house, we still do not have a Christmas tree or any decorations.

 

 

One year I got my girlfriend a portable toilet, for hunting camp. I was a bit hesitant, but got it anyway. She opened the package, looked at it, looked at me, and leaned over to me and gave me a big kiss! Our daughter, and both grandkids came over , looked at it, and gave me hugs. Every year, in deer and elk camp, they tell me several times how they appreciate the gift. And it is my job to bury the contents, w/o complaining. I prefer to give gifts that mean something, and not because it is Christmas or some other season. I have ordered new license plates for the company pick-up she drives. They will be Lions plates, as she is a Past District Governor. I buy season tickets to the local theater group, because we like to go. This year I got extra tickets so the daughter and granddaughter can attend. And I will send cash to our grandson who is at college, because his funds are tight. That will be done at irregular intervals, so the money will continue to be a surprise. Giving done w/o expectations is fun.

[TX-SC]

I guess it's hard for us middle class folks to understand why just because you have money you have to spend it on $10,000 watches. My wife and I could certainly AFFORD to buy one, but why?

 

Anyway, back to your issue. I think you need to drop the anniversary thing completely or renew your vows and change the date. Our 20th is coming up in May. I think we are going to leave the kids with my family and take a vacation together. But, there is no infidelity in our marriage and never has been. If there were, the anniversary would be meaningless and I would not celebrate it. It's like celebrating the birthday of a dead friend. What's the point?

[spanz1]

Yea, the irony of what she said is astounding. How could she be any more thoughtless?

 

I think OP should not buy the 5-figure watch now, because he's not feeling any 5-figure affection or respect. Maybe save that watch for the 20th, assuming she learns to table the entitlement... and is able to hold off on banging the guys from work for another 5 years.

 

A five figure watch, eh? I wonder if that sucker can turn back time?

 

 

 

ya know, the OP can lease HIMSELF a pretty nice Porsche for 5 figures...just sayin

[Morro72]

... this year I also printed up 15 Quotes on marriage. One for each year. ( some mushy, some direct ) and placed them in the card like little fortune cookie strips. Years 1 and 9 have quotes that she no doubt understood were tied to what was going on during those years. And the quotes from years 10 and beyond were mostly about the future, and about how marriage is work, but worth it.

If you ever decide you would feel comfortable posting these quotes, or perhaps a slightly obfuscated version of them, I'm sure a lot of people would find them enlightening.

[understand50]

TrustedthenBusted,

 

OBTW, as birthdays are also every year, my standard gift on the "5's" is to send flowers, with a card. I started on her 40th, and as I am 2 years younger, I was teasing her about it.

 

Anyway, what I wrote on the card was a huge hit, with her and her coworkers.

 

AAAA,

 

Looking forward to sleeping with a 40 year old tonight.

 

Happy birthday lover.

 

Love, Understand 50.

 

Just a thought.

[Hope Shimmers]

Off topic some, but I do not like buying gifts and I like getting gifts even less. I think it is because we are "expected" to give expensive gifts, even if we cannot afford them. A carryover of my spoiled wife, who always wanted to know the price. That took all the enjoyment away for me. And a carryover from my mother who always had to let us know that even if she could not afford the gifts, she bought them anyway. In my house, we still do not have a Christmas tree or any decorations.

 

 

One year I got my girlfriend a portable toilet, for hunting camp. I was a bit hesitant, but got it anyway. She opened the package, looked at it, looked at me, and leaned over to me and gave me a big kiss! Our daughter, and both grandkids came over , looked at it, and gave me hugs. Every year, in deer and elk camp, they tell me several times how they appreciate the gift. And it is my job to bury the contents, w/o complaining. I prefer to give gifts that mean something, and not because it is Christmas or some other season. I have ordered new license plates for the company pick-up she drives. They will be Lions plates, as she is a Past District Governor. I buy season tickets to the local theater group, because we like to go. This year I got extra tickets so the daughter and granddaughter can attend. And I will send cash to our grandson who is at college, because his funds are tight. That will be done at irregular intervals, so the money will continue to be a surprise. Giving done w/o expectations is fun.

 

I TOTALLY agree with this.

 

Gifts are not about money. They are not about dates on a calendar. They are about wanting to give someone you love, something from your heart.

 

I was in a relationship for several years with a Jehovah's Witness and although many things about that religion did bother me, I learned to really love the fact that they did not give gifts based on calendar dates. He used to give me gifts randomly, when HE wanted to. When I least expected it. It was SO much more special than this 'responsibility' that we all supposedly have to get gifts for people on their birthdays, Christmas, etc.

 

As for a $XX,XXX watch... I don't and will never get it. Just because you have money doesn't mean you should spend that kind of money on a watch. Much less expensive watches keep time just as well. I know it's a matter of opinion, but it's a character trait to me. I have enough money and could buy a watch like that for myself tomorrow, but no way. Much better ways to use that money. Maybe to help other people who aren't as fortunate, for one thing. Just my opinion.

 

TrustedthenBusted,

 

OBTW, as birthdays are also every year, my standard gift on the "5's" is to send flowers, with a card. I started on her 40th, and as I am 2 years younger, I was teasing her about it.

 

Anyway, what I wrote on the card was a huge hit, with her and her coworkers.

 

AAAA,

 

Looking forward to sleeping with a 40 year old tonight.

 

Happy birthday lover.

 

Love, Understand 50.

 

Just a thought.

 

I love this - the best gift ever. No amount of money can ever buy this.

[S2B]

I hope you didn't bow down to her entitlement issues and but that watch.

 

 

I'd be spending that money on a month long solo vacation.

 

 

Pick a new anniversary date - and never ever write the same thing to her. Change is the necessary ingredient to a new and improved marriage. The old one died.

 

"I love my wife"? How about "I look forward to a new version of my wife - one with gratitude and respect"... That would send a solid message to her

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm probably in the BS minority here, but my feeling is this:

 

If you're going to stay post DDay AND if your WS has done all the right things in recovery (both big "if"s), you give up the right 5 years down the road to still place everything in the context of the affair.

 

While I understand how the thought might pop into your head, forgiveness means passing on the opportunity to speak it aloud.

 

Whether the watch is an appropriate gift is a separate discussion. But to me, any hurt caused by your comment is on you. While we may not always be in complete control of our emotions, consideration requires we govern how they're expressed...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Agreed. You don't get the right to still use it five years down the road.

[Hope Shimmers]

Agreed. You don't get the right to still use it five years down the road.

 

Completely disagree, based on what she said.

 

When does it end, then? When is he just supposed to forget about such comments? So he's supposed to just pretend it never happened?

 

I would have been pissed as hell at what she said and how she said it. Is there some kind of rule that if it goes beyond X years, then it's on HIM and not her?

[AlwaysGrowing]

Agreed. You don't get the right to still use it five years down the road.

 

It was the OP wife who brought up the gift from five years ago. OP wife had no issue bringing up an issue from five years ago...one that many would deem petty and/or superficial.

 

I think most would have been offended.

 

It is wise to first consider ones volley at another...when they have in their arsenal a perfect spike return.

[Mz. Pixie]

Her comments were petty and uncalled for. However, You either forgive and stay. Or you go. "Whoever forgives has to pay" is one of my favorite quotes. He does not get the right indefinitely to use it against her.

[S2B]

He isn't in the habit of bringing it up.

 

She brought it up with no thought as to why he didn't get her a gift 5 years ago.

 

She acted entitled and cruel.

 

For the fact that she cheated she's lucky she ever gets a gift.

 

 

She knows she can buy herself the gift. Let her get it herself.

 

 

I'd ask for a gift from her = to lose that crappy entitled attitude. It's always that kind of attitude on a person that allows them to justify cheating.

[Vercetti]

I would buy myself how ever many oz of gold and silver coins the gaudy overpriced greater fool watch costs...and draw her a card.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Well definitely lots to chew on. Thank everyone. First I'd like to address a few common themes, and then provide an update.

 

1. The Money. I hesitated to even bring that part up, as I feared it might be too much of a distraction, and I thought might even be rude. Worse, I thought that it may color your image of me, my future posts, and our situation, as I don't ever want to be considered different. Money has no effect on the pain of infidelity, or how the aftermath is dealt with. If anything, it makes it all more complicated.

 

But it WAS a factor, so I included it. If this were about a basket of flowers, more people would think " ah..no big deal."

 

2. My wife's sense of entitlement. While she did have an affair, which of course means she feels ( or felt ) an undeniable sense of entitlement at one point, I will defend her to the ends of the earth on this watch thing. She IS entitled to a watch like that if that is what makes her happy. She is actually quite frugal, and very responsible with money, and lives well within her own means. Believe me, she could live a lot higher on the hog than she does, and has very few expensive interests. Jewelry is one of them, and they make watches like this for people who can appreciate and afford them. ME? I'd pick up a nice used jetski for that much, or perhaps throw some silly bling on my pickup truck. But she likes jewelry. So try not to judge too harshly. As I mentioned earlier, I think I took her comment WAY out of context, and have taken responsibility, and apologized for that.

 

3. The update.

 

When it was all said and done, I told her why I was upset, and what I thought she meant with her comment. She immediately apologized and said she couldn't believe the words came out of her mouth the way they did, because that wasn't what she meant at all. She just meant that she was trying to justify her OWN desire for this watch she's been admiring, and sort of saying " well...15 years seems like a good enough reason to justify a silly expense like this." She herself recognizing that it's an extravagant purchase by any measure.

 

Ultimately, she decided that she wouldn't really feel comfortable wearing something that expensive anyway, that it was a fun little fantasy, and has since started lowball bidding on used ones on eBay for less half the price. If she gets a bite, we'll discuss it at that time.

 

She apologized for causing the trigger, said she COMPLETELY understands why that would set me off, and was again disgusted with herself for what happened, telling me that never a day goes by that she doesn't wish she could have a takeback.

 

So....our anniversary? Turns out I screwed up. It wasn't "tomorrow" as my original post indicated. It was the following day. We exchanged the cards and flowers etc, and no real gifts. We decided that we'd pick a weekend in the next couple months and take a short trip somewhere w/o the kids. Don't need to go far, so probably just get a place at the lake a couple hours away for a weekend.

 

Things are good. Trigger dealt with. Communication restored, and probably improved, and I think our 16 year will be entered into with the right attitude.

 

The one thing I have to say to any Waywards who read this. My wife does NOT get defensive when I trigger or get sad. Not like she did in the beginning.

 

Sure... She bums out, and probably feels sorry for herself that she still has to deal with it...but she is smart enough ( or remorseful enough) to recognize my needs first, and always starts off with "i'm so sorry."

 

Take note. That's the way to go. I think anything other than that would end in disaster.

[autumnnight]

For the fact that she cheated she's lucky she ever gets a gift.

 

THIS is why I have slowly but surely become anti-reconciliation. I don't think it actually exists.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Off topic some, but I do not like buying gifts and I like getting gifts even less. I think it is because we are "expected" to give expensive gifts, even if we cannot afford them. A carryover of my spoiled wife, who always wanted to know the price. That took all the enjoyment away for me. And a carryover from my mother who always had to let us know that even if she could not afford the gifts, she bought them anyway. In my house, we still do not have a Christmas tree or any decorations.

 

Sounds like you have some issues surrounding gifts, and the source of those issues. I'm not a very good gift-giver myself, although I'd like to be. Gifts between the two of us though... even weirder, because it's not like I can hide the price or anything. We generally just buy what we want for ourselves, and if it's gonna more than a few bucks, will run the purchase past the other for approval. The only problem with this is that when there IS a birthday or something where just buying her a gift would be easy...there is nothing to get that she really wants, and didn't already go get. Again, she doesn't want much to begin with, so usually just goes and gets it when she does. So, in general, we just spoil the kids. lol. They love gifts, and we love giving them gifts. So that's what we do most often.

 

One year I got my girlfriend a portable toilet, for hunting camp. I was a bit hesitant, but got it anyway.

 

Good Man! Great Gift! HA! I just picked up Sanipottie 960 for the boat! My wife ( and basically every female passenger ) is SO happy with that! No more having to "check the prop!"