15 year anniversary tomorrow and...

[TrustedthenBusted]

As far as gifts and giving...are you paying attention during the course of the year? Certainly there must be things she admires or mentions in passing throughout the months.

 

Each and every person gives hints and subtle nods to things they prefer.

 

It's a matter of paying really close attention to what they may be.

 

 

 

Do you know what shoe size she wears? Dress size? What brand of purse she likes to carry?

 

I hear what you are saying completely. And you're right. She mentions things here and there. There are some things I can pick up on that I can't screw up. A particular perfume. Dinner at some new restaurant she mentioned. Tickets to a show or concert she wants to see. That sort of stuff. And I try to keep on it. She does pretty good too listening to me mention stuff. Or she will call my offroading buddies and just ask about some gadget my truck or bikes don't already have.

 

But shoes...clothes...purses... I'm at a loss. She's a bit of a fashionista, and invariably what I pick out gets returned for something a milimiter bigger or smaller, lol. Oh well.

 

To the poster who said reconciliation doesn't exist, i can understand that feeling too, although I disagree. It exists, and marriage after infidelity exists, and can be great. It's just something that can be difficult to live with at times.

 

I know a couple who went through a trust issue that had to do with money. One spouse lied about what they had done with theirs, and the consequences were life changing. In the end, it was the lies that cut deeper than the financial loss, but I swear they are worse off today than my wife and I over it.

[Red123]

That is good to hear. maybe they just don't post as much on forums. I guess if they are happily moved through and have a new marriage they don't feel as much of a need?

 

I am glad to hear that there are some couples who have a loving marriage of equals that is defined by the present and not the past.

 

I don't post that often anymore, however I did just post yesterday about how well we are doing in R. I also think this couple is doing really well. Some of us will post more to get out some frustration and hear other pov but are still moving forward in our marriages. Reconciliation isn't for everyone but it does exist and it can be really good.

[Lois_Griffin]

Her response was " Well Maria got a 3-diamond somethingorother bracelet, and that was for her 10th! And I didn't really get anything for my 10th."

 

And then it happened. I went from calm loving guy to seriously pissed off BS in an instant and said " You know what I got for our 10th? Lies to my face about the guy you were banging at work."

 

Haven't said a word to eachother since..

Awww, let me get my crying towel out for your poor, self-entitled, greedy wife because she's JUST so deprived. She's the type that makes the rest of us women look bad.

 

After hearing about her sleazy affair, I vote you don't give her squat, and YOU take that $100,000+ and buy yourself a man toy.

[Lois_Griffin]

Her comments were petty and uncalled for. However, You either forgive and stay. Or you go. "Whoever forgives has to pay" is one of my favorite quotes. He does not get the right indefinitely to use it against her.

Just because one forgives doesn't mean they have to forget and then listen to ignorant, self-entitled complaints about the lack of a gift 5 years ago for their anniversary - right after D-Day.

 

Her self-absorbed little whine was more than 'petty.' It was selfish and self entitled and completely NEGATED what the OP was going through at that time 5 years ago.

 

So hell YES he did the right thing and threw her screwing around right in her face. Maybe next time she'll actually consider someone else OTHER than her greedy self.

[gettingstronger]

I don't post that often anymore, however I did just post yesterday about how well we are doing in R. I also think this couple is doing really well. Some of us will post more to get out some frustration and hear other pov but are still moving forward in our marriages. Reconciliation isn't for everyone but it does exist and it can be really good.

 

 

Agreed Red- interestingly enough-that thread only got a few messages while the messy ones get pages and pages- successful reconciliation is out there, its just not acknowledged as much-

[Red123]

Agreed Red- interestingly enough-that thread only got a few messages while the messy ones get pages and pages- successful reconciliation is out there, its just not acknowledged as much-

 

I agree. Maybe it's not as interesting as the messy situations.

[autumnnight]

I agree. Maybe it's not as interesting as the messy situations.

 

Maybe it makes people uncomfortable.

[Red123]

Maybe it makes people uncomfortable.

 

Why would my reconciliation make others uncomfortable? I am asking honestly, because people post about a lot of things in this board.

[autumnnight]

Why would my reconciliation make others uncomfortable? I am asking honestly, because people post about a lot of things in this board.

 

What you have done is this: your WS has changed, become transparent, and worked to help you heal. You have been willing to respond to that with love, forgiveness, and the creation of an authentic marriage in which the past is not punishment fodder for the present.

 

Your are the person who gave up smoking in the midst of smokers. You are the person who lost 150 pounds and have kept it off in the midst of obese people.

 

That is what I mean by uncomfortable. The authenticity and love in your recovery sheds light on the fact that, if we chose to, it CAN be done.

 

I remember when someone hurt my family very badly. Watching the rest of my family move on in forgiveness was very, well, annoying at first, because it shone a light on the fact that I was choosing not to. I was getting something from my choice to hold onto the hurt, and then being willing to give it up made me even more aware of my own choice.

 

Once I chose to be free too, the discomfort went away.

[Noirek]

I think trusted you are a pretty amazing person. Yes you screw up sometimes but insteas of justifying it or playing the affair card you actually step back and consider the situation logically. You don't let your pride or even hurt feelings stay in the way. That is commendable. There are a lot of tough cookies here. They see red when they read this and make self entitled and hateful comments themselves. And then there are people who reply on their own predjudice either towards "cheaters" or expensive gifts.

 

When I read your opening post I said ouch over her careless thought and your reaction to it. But reading that post I came to the same conclusion you did later. She was feeling guilty for wanting such an expensive watch and projected onto your comment. It wasn't insideous as some think or entitled or greedy. It was normal and human. As was your response. But instead of throwing away a fifteen year marriage over a misunderstanding, especially when you didn't over something much worse, is wonderful. You worked through it. You put your own entitlement aside. People go on here about how entitled is "cheaters" are and sometimes they forget their own self entitlement. Self entitlement to being a BS and their pain and self entitlement to holding the affair over the waywards head. Self entitlement to victimhood (and I'm not talking about freshly found out because this post is nothing to do with that). Us humans are selfish. And some of our selfish actions cause more harm than others. And sometimes everyone screws up. If anyone believes a wayward will get it right everyday they betrer reconsider R. You can't reconcile and have a good marriage where perfection is expected from one spouse. Like they are a robot or a machine. We cheaters have proven how human we are. We will screw up. Many many times. And so will the BS. Like how you handled this and she did after the mess, that is what matters more.

 

We tend to focus onthe conflict so much we forget that the lack of resolution is what offen breaks the marriage.

[Red123]

What you have done is this: your WS has changed, become transparent, and worked to help you heal. You have been willing to respond to that with love, forgiveness, and the creation of an authentic marriage in which the past is not punishment fodder for the present.

 

Your are the person who gave up smoking in the midst of smokers. You are the person who lost 150 pounds and have kept it off in the midst of obese people.

 

That is what I mean by uncomfortable. The authenticity and love in your recovery sheds light on the fact that, if we chose to, it CAN be done.

 

I remember when someone hurt my family very badly. Watching the rest of my family move on in forgiveness was very, well, annoying at first, because it shone a light on the fact that I was choosing not to. I was getting something from my choice to hold onto the hurt, and then being willing to give it up made me even more aware of my own choice.

 

Once I chose to be free too, the discomfort went away.

 

Ok. I get it:) thanks for the explanation. It makes sense.

[Noirek]

Why would my reconciliation make others uncomfortable? I am asking honestly, because people post about a lot of things in this board.

 

I would also add to autumn's post two other reasons. The first is guilt of those who did not choose reconciliation but divorce. Ending a marriage is rarely easy. Even if you have a very good reason to do so. Seeing other people succesfully do so adds to that niggling guilt.

 

And the other reason is the people who for the above reason or hope's reason or their own reason don't want to believe true R happens. And so stories that go against their belief system make them uncomfortable.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think trusted you are a pretty amazing person. Yes you screw up sometimes but insteas of justifying it or playing the affair card you actually step back and consider the situation logically. You don't let your pride or even hurt feelings stay in the way. That is commendable. There are a lot of tough cookies here. They see red when they read this and make self entitled and hateful comments themselves. And then there are people who reply on their own predjudice either towards "cheaters" or expensive gifts.

 

When I read your opening post I said ouch over her careless thought and your reaction to it. But reading that post I came to the same conclusion you did later. She was feeling guilty for wanting such an expensive watch and projected onto your comment. It wasn't insideous as some think or entitled or greedy. It was normal and human. As was your response. But instead of throwing away a fifteen year marriage over a misunderstanding, especially when you didn't over something much worse, is wonderful. You worked through it. You put your own entitlement aside. People go on here about how entitled is "cheaters" are and sometimes they forget their own self entitlement. Self entitlement to being a BS and their pain and self entitlement to holding the affair over the waywards head. Self entitlement to victimhood (and I'm not talking about freshly found out because this post is nothing to do with that). Us humans are selfish. And some of our selfish actions cause more harm than others. And sometimes everyone screws up. If anyone believes a wayward will get it right everyday they betrer reconsider R. You can't reconcile and have a good marriage where perfection is expected from one spouse. Like they are a robot or a machine. We cheaters have proven how human we are. We will screw up. Many many times. And so will the BS. Like how you handled this and she did after the mess, that is what matters more.

 

We tend to focus onthe conflict so much we forget that the lack of resolution is what offen breaks the marriage.

 

Thank you for this. And you're right. It's sometimes hard to come on here and post such person stuff when I KNOW that someone is just going to say I should dump that cheating whore and stop being a cuckold or beta-male or whatever.

 

I mean duh...that was an option, and I considered it for a long time. That is not helpful advice 6 years down the road.

 

But WE decided to reconcile, and WE decided to make our marriage a priority, and to never cause that kind of pain in our relationship again. And so now WE agree to work through these issues that pop up and any other issues.

 

I understand there are a lot of failed or false R's going on here, and I truly feel for those folks who were doubly duped, and I fully recognize that I may even become one of them someday. But I've chosen to go into R with my head held high, and give my marriage, my family, and my kids my best shot at staying together, and being happy. And my wife has made the same commitment.

 

I don't see this one-sided thing happening where I'm doing all the work of R and she is just hoping life will go back to normal. I deserve more, I expect more, and I demand more. And she has responded to that, and lived up to it for the last 5 years or so.

 

What really sealed the deal for me was having my own close call. Even if I knowingly put myself in that position as an act of revenge. I saw how easily an affair can happen, and I understood that feeling that, while wrong, nobody is "actually" getting hurt if the affair takes place. Until you get busted of course.

 

Nobody goes into them with the malicious purpose of causing devastation, and I truly believe that just about any person can find themselves wrapped up in one before they know it. Myself included. I think that realization, over any other, is what has allowed me to forgive my wife for what she knows was a horrible choice.

 

Ironically, I feel safer staying with her than I do finding someone else who hasn't been through what we have.

[Horton]

Her response was " Well Maria got a 3-diamond somethingorother bracelet, and that was for her 10th! And I didn't really get anything for my 10th."

 

This sounds like a dad arguing with his spoiled teenage daughter.

 

"But Melissa's dad got her a new i-phone, ugh you're so unfair!"

 

Even if there hadn't been an affair this would still be obnoxious behavior IMO.

[Noirek]

This sounds like a dad arguing with his spoiled teenage daughter.

 

"But Melissa's dad got her a new i-phone, ugh you're so unfair!"

 

Even if there hadn't been an affair this would still be obnoxious behavior IMO.

 

But that is because you are looking at this without any depth of understanding. The OP already explained it all. She is a grown adult who wanted something that she felt guilty about pending money on. His comment about the price was a reminder to her of that. She projected her feelings onto him or she was merely convincing herself and not even him that it was okay to get the watch for herself.

 

These people are wealthy. The OP explained money is no object. People who lack understanding merely put their own life situation into play and see through their own experience. To someone who the purchase would be stretching their means, the comment is entirely different. I'm just glad the OP has enough insight to get that.

[TrustedthenBusted]

This sounds like a dad arguing with his spoiled teenage daughter.

 

"But Melissa's dad got her a new i-phone, ugh you're so unfair!"

 

Even if there hadn't been an affair this would still be obnoxious behavior IMO.

 

 

It's OK. You didn't read the whole thing, and are reacting to the bit you got. I do this all the time, because honestly...I'm probably not going to read 9 pages of stuff before responding to an original post either.

 

But based on what you read ( which I admit I wrote ) I see where you are coming from.

 

I would encourage you to read further though, because there was some good healing, communicating and understanding going on after the initial blowup.

[Noirek]

It's OK. You didn't read the whole thing, and are reacting to the bit you got. I do this all the time, because honestly...I'm probably not going to read 9 pages of stuff before responding to an original post either.

 

But based on what you read ( which I admit I wrote ) I see where you are coming from.

 

I would encourage you to read further though, because there was some good healing, communicating and understanding going on after the initial blowup.

 

I find what helps me is to read every post by the OP when a thread is really long.

[Horton]

But that is because you are looking at this without any depth of understanding. The OP already explained it all. She is a grown adult who wanted something that she felt guilty about pending money on. His comment about the price was a reminder to her of that. She projected her feelings onto him or she was merely convincing herself and not even him that it was okay to get the watch for herself.

 

These people are wealthy. The OP explained money is no object. People who lack understanding merely put their own life situation into play and see through their own experience. To someone who the purchase would be stretching their means, the comment is entirely different. I'm just glad the OP has enough insight to get that.

 

I didn't say the OP should go file for a divorce, I merely pointed out that her words/attitude came across as childlike and entitled. Apparently I'm not the only one that lacks 'understanding' considering I'm not the only person who felt that way.

 

I cringed when I read what your wife said, but I'm not a gift-oriented person, and the idea that someone would oint out who got what gift or ask for something expensive is just something I am uncomfortable with in general.

 

I'm trying to be polite here, but it's just...

 

The sense of entitlement! To me, that goes along with someone who has an affair. A watch valued in the five figures?!? And then her saying the above? Materialistic and entitled. I am sorry, but it is.

 

I don't agree with what she said (keeping up with the Joneses much?), but I don't agree with what you said either, in both instances.

 

Uh... No. He was honest. She acted entitled and overlooked the bad behavior that lead to no gift for year ten.

 

Not only that but she's competing prizes with her friends - at her husband's expense.

.

 

Yea, the irony of what she said is astounding. How could she be any more thoughtless?

 

Her comments were petty and uncalled for. However, You either forgive and stay. Or you go.

 

Her self-absorbed little whine was more than 'petty.' It was selfish and self entitled and completely NEGATED what the OP was going through at that time 5 years ago.

 

It's OK. You didn't read the whole thing, and are reacting to the bit you got. I do this all the time, because honestly...I'm probably not going to read 9 pages of stuff before responding to an original post either.

 

But based on what you read ( which I admit I wrote ) I see where you are coming from.

 

I would encourage you to read further though, because there was some good healing, communicating and understanding going on after the initial blowup.

 

Oh I read the whole thing before I posted OP, I still think she came across like a pouting teenager, which was my only point. I simply agreed with her own assessment of her words that you posted after you spoke to her about it.

 

She immediately apologized and said she couldn't believe the words came out of her mouth the way they did, because that wasn't what she meant at all.

[Noirek]

I didn't say the OP should go file for a divorce, I merely pointed out that her words/attitude came across as childlike and entitled. Apparently I'm not the only one that lacks 'understanding' considering I'm not the only person who felt that way.

 

 

Oh I read the whole thing before I posted OP, I still think she came across like a pouting teenager, which was my only point. I simply agreed with her own assessment of her words that you posted after you spoke to her about it.

 

That's because you could probably care less as to why she said what she did and where her mindset was. Like I said, there is no depth in saying "pouty teenager" and moving on. People sound like a lot of things. But she wasn't being a pouty teenager. That is where the judgements against her are wrong. And thabkfully the OP doesn't seem to be the judgy time.

 

When I was in my funk because I felt rejected sexually by my husband. I was looking at it from my persepctive, how it looked and felt to me. But the truth of the situation was far more than how it looked or sounded. I was being shallow and making it all about me. And while it was a very legit problem, a little insight on my part would have went a long way.

 

Thinking and judging someone by something because of how it sounds to you doesn't usually help the situation.

[autumnnight]

That's because you could probably care less as to why she said what she did and where her mindset was. Like I said, there is no depth in saying "pouty teenager" and moving on. People sound like a lot of things. But she wasn't being a pouty teenager. That is where the judgements against her are wrong. And thabkfully the OP doesn't seem to be the judgy time.

 

When I was in my funk because I felt rejected sexually by my husband. I was looking at it from my persepctive, how it looked and felt to me. But the truth of the situation was far more than how it looked or sounded. I was being shallow and making it all about me. And while it was a very legit problem, a little insight on my part would have went a long way.

 

Thinking and judging someone by something because of how it sounds to you doesn't usually help the situation.

 

And yet that is what everyone on forums does. They view things through their lens and their experiences and their beliefs. Honestly, erven when I disagree with someone, I am just thankful that more than one opinion is allowed.

 

There's no denying that focusing on the cost of the gift and comparing money spent is going to seem very...shallow to 95% of the regular population. I cringed too.

 

The issue here is not whether the statement was petty. Even the wife agreed it came out wrong and sounded bad. The issue here is this underlying belief that some have that since she cheated, she just ought to be glad he lets her breathe the same oxygen he does, and she needs to go back to her corner, polish her scarlet A, and stop complaining.

 

Thankfully, the OP doesn't seem to share that opinion. That is probably why they actually seem to be in a loving marriage and recovering.

[TrustedthenBusted]

The issue here is this underlying belief that some have that since she cheated, she just ought to be glad he lets her breathe the same oxygen he does, and she needs to go back to her corner, polish her scarlet A, and stop complaining.

 

This.

 

 

 

You know, for awhile after D-Day I became a full on Stage IV Internet Detective. I put all of my technical skill to use tracking my wife's movements, computer usage, private conversations, personal relationships, instant messages etc... You name it, and my 24 hour surveillance would have caught it. And then one day I realized how I was living my life, and I stopped. I simply didn't want to live like that. That is no kind of life. I haven't checked on her in any way since. Not one.

 

Same goes for treating my wife like some criminal that is beyond rehabilitation. I could easily make her repent mercilessly each day for as long as she would stand it. I could use every opportunity to turn an average day into my own pity party. I could use her past against her to get what I want today. And I could expect, at least for a while, her to treat me far better than I treat her in some irrational attempt to level the playing field.

 

But I simply don't want to live like that. That is no kind of life. If I was in her shoes, I certainly wouldn't stay in a relationship like that. At least not after I felt I had paid my dues and proved that I feel like it was as big a mistake as my spouse does.

 

As I've proven, I don't always get it right, and neither does she. But in the end, I have to ask myself, as does she....who do I want to be with? As long as the answer to that is "eachother" then we'll keep working through these things.

 

That's the hard part for the Anti-R crowd to get.

[Horton]

That's because you could probably care less as to why she said what she did and where her mindset was. Like I said, there is no depth in saying "pouty teenager" and moving on. People sound like a lot of things. But she wasn't being a pouty teenager. That is where the judgements against her are wrong. And thabkfully the OP doesn't seem to be the judgy time.

 

When I was in my funk because I felt rejected sexually by my husband. I was looking at it from my persepctive, how it looked and felt to me. But the truth of the situation was far more than how it looked or sounded. I was being shallow and making it all about me. And while it was a very legit problem, a little insight on my part would have went a long way.

 

Thinking and judging someone by something because of how it sounds to you doesn't usually help the situation.

 

I'm judgmental for having an honest reaction to her words? The same exact reaction at least a dozen other posters had? All i did was comment on her attitude in this one particular situation as spelled out by the OP. I didn't say she was a bad person or that she deserves to be divorced and left destitute. My comment even echoed OP's wife's own disgust at her words.

 

I'm starting to think that you have some kind of problem with me due to some other post somewhere that you didn't approve of, since I'm the only person your giving this chiding to out of several others who essentially said the same exact thing. Either that or you just wanna argue with somebody. Regardless, I don't think you're the right person to be lecturing posters about not being 'understanding' of other peoples situations, considering the fact that I recall you accusing this same OP of using a 'get out of jail free card' to absolve himself of personal responsibility for his actions in regards to his marriage.

 

The issue here is not whether the statement was petty. Even the wife agreed it came out wrong and sounded bad. The issue here is this underlying belief that some have that since she cheated, she just ought to be glad he lets her breathe the same oxygen he does, and she needs to go back to her corner, polish her scarlet A, and stop complaining.

 

Thankfully, the OP doesn't seem to share that opinion. That is probably why they actually seem to be in a loving marriage and recovering.

 

Agreed, and let me just clarify that I don't share that opinion either, which is why I said in my initial post that even if there were no adultery in their marriage I would still find her comments about 'so and so got ___ for HER anniversary' to be obnoxious. If the OP no longer feels that way then it's all water under the bridge.

[drifter777]

I would also add to autumn's post two other reasons. The first is guilt of those who did not choose reconciliation but divorce. Ending a marriage is rarely easy. Even if you have a very good reason to do so. Seeing other people succesfully do so adds to that niggling guilt.

 

I agree with this because most of the men who didn't try to R or gave up on it early and divorced stop posting here after a few months. Early on when those men do post they very rarely have guilt or think they did the wrong thing. On the contrary, they agree that their choice was what was right for them and that recovering from infidelity is a long, painful process whether you R or D. Those men would not be uncomfortable reading post about a couple who successfully R'd.

And the other reason is the people who for the above reason or hope's reason or their own reason don't want to believe true R happens. And so stories that go against their belief system make them uncomfortable.

 

I also agree with this but would add that any BS/WS who is uncomfortable reading or hearing about a couple who successfully reconciled after infidelity is pretty broken to begin with. It's not easy to become a pragmatist and be able to honestly see things from other perspectives. But passing judgement on another person's choice in a situation like this is remarkably immature. I believe that "true" reconciliation is rare for a BH to achieve when the sexual component of her cheating is the thing killing him. But, of course, I'm sure there are men who can do it which is why I say rare and not impossible. But I am never uncomfortable reading or hearing about a man who reconciled with his WW.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I believe that "true" reconciliation is rare for a BH to achieve when the sexual component of her cheating is the thing killing him. But, of course, I'm sure there are men who can do it which is why I say rare and not impossible. But I am never uncomfortable reading or hearing about a man who reconciled with his WW.

 

Everyone's situation is different, and I have read about some affairs that I know I could not get past. Because the sexual component of my wife's affair was not very good, and I have proof that she wasn't into it and was very uncomfortable with it... I was able to see the affair for what it was, and what it REALLY meant to her.

 

Outside of that, I hear you completely. Some of the stuff I've read on here is WAY beyond what I know I could live with.

 

And I've said it before, if we didn't have children, I don't think I would have tried for as long as I did. Now, I'm glad that was the reason I kept going at the time...

 

But it's not anymore.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Oh I read the whole thing before I posted OP, I still think she came across like a pouting teenager, which was my only point. I simply agreed with her own assessment of her words that you posted after you spoke to her about it.

 

My bad then. And you're right. At face value, it does sound like that. Especially when written out like it was. no harm, no foul.