Lost & very scared...

[Radarsat]

The worst thing you can do right now is make this about you. At all. When you say things like the above it sounds like you're feeling sorry for yourself to her.

I'm just telling you. I've been there.

 

 

I realize your just "telling me". And I do appreciate the support from everyone on here Mz. Pixie. I apologize if I haven't acted that way.

 

 

When you say "you're feeling sorry for yourself to her". What you do mean? Do you think I'm actually sending her a link to his forum? I hope not. I think I read you wrong I'm hoping. That's not the case if you did mean it that way. And I'm not looking for sympathy. I do deserve what has happened. I'm just using a forum to get my feelings out. Your right though thinking about it right now, this isn't about me. It's about her. So I should stop bitching on here and move on and start working on my own issues and let her deal with her own issues. Your right. Thanks for everything. I'll work on stopping feeling bad for myself. I've been an idiot to come on here and rant.

[Mz. Pixie]

I mean if you tell her verbally "I deserve this" or whatever you are saying to her that takes away from what you have done to her.

 

We are here to help. Not running you off.

 

Have you considered or anyone else that you might be bipolar?

[Radarsat]

I mean if you tell her verbally "I deserve this" or whatever you are saying to her that takes away from what you have done to her.

 

We are here to help. Not running you off.

 

Have you considered or anyone else that you might be bipolar?

 

 

I have considered it. My psychologist hasn't mentioned it. But that doesn't mean I'm not. Should I mention it to her? My doctor (who is useless)? What would you recommend. I did one of these bipolar quizzes online and I was off the charts (indicating good probability I am bipolar). Does cipralex treat individuals who are bipolar?

[Mz. Pixie]

I have considered it. My psychologist hasn't mentioned it. But that doesn't mean I'm not. Should I mention it to her? My doctor (who is useless)? What would you recommend. I did one of these bipolar quizzes online and I was off the charts (indicating good probability I am bipolar). Does cipralex treat individuals who are bipolar?

 

Have you seen a psychiatrist? That would be my first start. See a new one if the old one is useless.

[Radarsat]

Have you seen a psychiatrist? That would be my first start. See a new one if the old one is useless.

 

 

No I haven't seen a psychiatrist. Only a psychologist, who I really find to be useful. I just need to keep up with it. But maybe a psychiatrist is a good idea as well. I'll look into it.

[Radarsat]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd share this post I had put up in the 'Coping' section just to let you know all how I'm doing. Thanks to everyone. If you see some more 'likes' from me from your previous replies, that's because I'm daily re-reading them for more clarity and advice. Past few weeks have been foggy and unclear. I really feel like my cipralex is working well today. I can only hope this gets even better. I'm still very much distraught over what has happened, but I know I created it, and I can only work on myself (not her) to be a better man. Only time, patience, and her own space/privacy will tell me if our marriage can be saved.

 

 

This is not to say you won't see me again on here seeking help and advice. I realize I'm going to have my down days. But I'm grateful to wake up this morning and not have the urge to end it all. Thank you everyone again. It's wonderful to have this support system in conjunction with my counselor and medicine.

 

 

Have a great day folks...

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/coping/546236-want-end-but-kids-2.html#post6536718

[Downtown]

I did one of these bipolar quizzes online and I was off the charts (indicating good probability I am bipolar).

Radarsat, I suggest you speak with your psychologist about your belief that you likely are bipolar. Perhaps you are. That is not what you're describing, however. Rather, the behaviors you describe -- impulsive, strong anger issue, childhood sexual abuse (of you), and temper tantrums that can be triggered in ten seconds by a minor comment or action -- are warning signs that are far more characteristic of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) than bipolar.

 

I therefore suggest you take a look at my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Also, you will find a more detailed description of them in my posts at Rebel's Thread.

 

Significantly, even if you were to actually have bipolar, that would not rule out your also having BPD. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that if you have bipolar-1 (i.e., with periods of strong mania in addition to periods of strong depression) the chance of also having full-blown BPD is about a third. If you have bipolar-2, (i.e., strong depression but very mild mania), the chance of also having BPD is about a fourth. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

[Radarsat]

Radarsat, I suggest you speak with your psychologist about your belief that you likely are bipolar. Perhaps you are. That is not what you're describing, however. Rather, the behaviors you describe -- impulsive, strong anger issue, childhood sexual abuse (of you), and temper tantrums that can be triggered in ten seconds by a minor comment or action -- are warning signs that are far more characteristic of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) than bipolar.

 

I therefore suggest you take a look at my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Also, you will find a more detailed description of them in my posts at Rebel's Thread.

 

Significantly, even if you were to actually have bipolar, that would not rule out your also having BPD. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that if you have bipolar-1 (i.e., with periods of strong mania in addition to periods of strong depression) the chance of also having full-blown BPD is about a third. If you have bipolar-2, (i.e., strong depression but very mild mania), the chance of also having BPD is about a fourth. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

I spoke with psychologist today actually regarding the bipolar possibility. She totally agrees with you and said, "Highly unlikely!" She mentioned the whole thing about if I did, I'd have the strong mania. But she said I have stronger highs and lows than normal people. She didn't mention BPD, but I get a sense she tries not to label. I'll look at your post definitely! Thank you.

[Downtown]

She mentioned the whole thing about if I did, I'd have the strong mania. But she said I have stronger highs and lows than normal people.

Radarsat, yes, you are describing the event-triggered mood changes that are characteristic of folks having strong BPD traits. Significantly, both BPD and bipolar produce mood changes. But they are very different because the resulting mood swing for BPD is on a different spectrum than that for bipolar. Whereas a bipolar mood will swing between depression and mania, a BPD mood will swing between Jekyll (adoring your wife) and Hyde (devaluing your wife).

 

And, whereas a bipolar mood is caused by gradual changes in body chemistry (and thus typically takes a week or two to develop), a BPD mood change is NOT caused by body chemistry changes. Instead, it is believed to be triggered by a minor event (and thus can occur in ten seconds, releasing the anger you have been carrying inside since early childhood). At the link I provide above, you will find a description of many other key differences between BPD and bipolar.

 

I also have been on and off Cipralex for depression since 2011.

Your being on Cipralex is another indication to me that your doctor doesn't suspect bipolar. Doctors generally avoid prescribing an antidepressant to anyone suffering from bipolar because, although it will reduce the depression phase, it can greatly exacerbate the manic phase. It therefore can push a client into severe mania, at which point they may engage in very dangerous and self-destructive behaviors -- or even slip into psychosis.

 

Because doctors generally know that it is dangerous to prescribe an antidepressant by itself to a bipolar sufferer, they usually will prescribe it only when also prescribing a mood stabilizer to prevent the dangerous effect on the manic phase.

 

[My wife] was walking on egg shells... in order to avoid conflict.

"Walking on eggshells" is what the partners and spouses of BPDers typically do because they are afraid of triggering a release of the BPDer's anger. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused spouses) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

I still feel my anger/rage rising at times and I worry it will NEVER leave. I'm damaged and I just want to be put out forever.

If you have strong BPD traits, your problem is not being "damaged" but, rather, being emotionally unstable. That instability is believed to arise from a childhood trauma (together with genetics) that prevented you from learning important emotional skills that other people typically learn in early childhood.

 

Hence, if you really do have strong BPD traits, the remedy is to undergo therapy that teaches you how to acquire those missing skills: e.g., how to regulate your own emotions, how to do self soothing to calm yourself down, how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong conflicting feelings, how to strengthen your self esteem, how to establish stronger personal boundaries, how to be mindful (i.e., how to remain in the present instead of escaping into the past or future with daydreams), how to get a stronger sense of who you are, and how to trust other people not to abandon you.

 

If you do have strong BPD traits, you are amazingly self aware for someone having such strong traits. I've never found any statistics on it but, based on my online conversations with over a hundred self-aware BPDers, I would guess that BPD is invisible to at least 95% of BPDers. The very nature of BPD typically makes it invisible to the person having it. This is why it is said to be egosyntonic (i.e., such a natural way of thinking for BPDers that it seems perfectly normal to them).

 

I mention this so that, if you do have strong BPD traits, you will realize that you are already past the major hurdle that prevents 95% of BPDers from ever seeking therapy. You also should realize that, for the same reason, the vast majority of online information at websites does not present an accurate picture of self-aware BPDers. Moreover, because much of this information is written by angry non-professionals stumbling away from a toxic relationship, it presents a distorted black-white image of BPDers. Hence, if you want to read about what it is like to be a BPDer and how to get better, I recommend you read Friedel's book, Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified: An Essential Guide for Understanding and Living with BPD.

 

We have talked in the past about getting a marriage counselor, but neither one of us acted on it.

If you decide you likely have strong BPD traits, MC likely will be a total waste of time until you've learned some of the skills I mentioned above. Although MC tend to be excellent at teaching communication skills, a BPDer's issues are more serious and must be addressed before the marriage will be helped by acquiring simple communication skills.

 

I ask you all.....how does separation help in this case?

If you have strong BPD traits, separation may help. Granted, if you are a BPDer, you absolutely HATE to be alone because you have such a weak sense of self and a great fear of abandonment. Yet, for BPDers, having a spouse around means that the BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) are frequently being triggered. Hence, if you are a BPDer, you are in a lose/lose situation. If your W leaves, you are miserable due to your abandonment fear and, if she stays, you will be miserable because she is frequently triggering your engulfment fear (i.e., a suffocating feeling of being controlled and taken over by your W's strong personality).

 

How can I actually prove to her that I am changed?

She already knows that you are changing. That's what emotionally unstable people do -- they change radically, flipping back and forth between Jekyll and Hyde, every few weeks (if not every few days). So she already knows all too well that you will change, and change, and change. What she doesn't know -- and what will be difficult to prove -- is that you have somehow undergone a LASTING change.

 

I don't really have too many "close" friends. I do have one, but he is so busy with his own family/life

If you have strong BPD traits, there is little chance of you having any close long-term friends -- unless they live a long distance away. The reason is that, being unable to regulate your emotions, you frequently experience very intense feelings that distort your perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This means that you likely will take offense at something a close friend says or does -- and then will push them away.

 

Significantly, if you are a BPDer, you very likely interact VERY WELL with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. Because none of those people are close to you, none of them pose a threat to your two great fears. That is, there is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

 

No I haven't seen a psychiatrist. Only a psychologist.... But maybe a psychiatrist is a good idea as well.

The main problem with seeing a psychiatrist is that, because they have both a PhD in psychology and MD in medicine, you likely will pay twice the hourly rate charged by your psychologist. Moreover, psychiatrists typically do not focus on individual counseling because it is more lucrative to spend time on diagnosis and writing prescriptions.

 

This is why clients typically will see BOTH of these professionals. They usually will see the psychologist every week for therapy and, on his referral, will see the psychiatrist every few months for medication. Alternatively, some clients start out with the psychiatrist but then start spending nearly all their therapy time with the psychologist they are referred to.

[Radarsat]

Radarsat, yes, you are describing the event-triggered mood changes that are characteristic of folks having strong BPD traits. Significantly, both BPD and bipolar produce mood changes. But they are very different because the resulting mood swing for BPD is on a different spectrum than that for bipolar. Whereas a bipolar mood will swing between depression and mania, a BPD mood will swing between Jekyll (adoring your wife) and Hyde (devaluing your wife).

 

And, whereas a bipolar mood is caused by gradual changes in body chemistry (and thus typically takes a week or two to develop), a BPD mood change is NOT caused by body chemistry changes. Instead, it is believed to be triggered by a minor event (and thus can occur in ten seconds, releasing the anger you have been carrying inside since early childhood). At the link I provide above, you will find a description of many other key differences between BPD and bipolar.

 

Your being on Cipralex is another indication to me that your doctor doesn't suspect bipolar. Doctors generally avoid prescribing an antidepressant to anyone suffering from bipolar because, although it will reduce the depression phase, it can greatly exacerbate the manic phase. It therefore can push a client into severe mania, at which point they may engage in very dangerous and self-destructive behaviors -- or even slip into psychosis.

 

Because doctors generally know that it is dangerous to prescribe an antidepressant by itself to a bipolar sufferer, they usually will prescribe it only when also prescribing a mood stabilizer to prevent the dangerous effect on the manic phase.

 

"Walking on eggshells" is what the partners and spouses of BPDers typically do because they are afraid of triggering a release of the BPDer's anger. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused spouses) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

If you have strong BPD traits, your problem is not being "damaged" but, rather, being emotionally unstable. That instability is believed to arise from a childhood trauma (together with genetics) that prevented you from learning important emotional skills that other people typically learn in early childhood.

 

Hence, if you really do have strong BPD traits, the remedy is to undergo therapy that teaches you how to acquire those missing skills: e.g., how to regulate your own emotions, how to do self soothing to calm yourself down, how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong conflicting feelings, how to strengthen your self esteem, how to establish stronger personal boundaries, how to be mindful (i.e., how to remain in the present instead of escaping into the past or future with daydreams), how to get a stronger sense of who you are, and how to trust other people not to abandon you.

 

If you do have strong BPD traits, you are amazingly self aware for someone having such strong traits. I've never found any statistics on it but, based on my online conversations with over a hundred self-aware BPDers, I would guess that BPD is invisible to at least 95% of BPDers. The very nature of BPD typically makes it invisible to the person having it. This is why it is said to be egosyntonic (i.e., such a natural way of thinking for BPDers that it seems perfectly normal to them).

 

I mention this so that, if you do have strong BPD traits, you will realize that you are already past the major hurdle that prevents 95% of BPDers from ever seeking therapy. You also should realize that, for the same reason, the vast majority of online information at websites does not present an accurate picture of self-aware BPDers. Moreover, because much of this information is written by angry non-professionals stumbling away from a toxic relationship, it presents a distorted black-white image of BPDers. Hence, if you want to read about what it is like to be a BPDer and how to get better, I recommend you read Friedel's book, Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified: An Essential Guide for Understanding and Living with BPD.

 

If you decide you likely have strong BPD traits, MC likely will be a total waste of time until you've learned some of the skills I mentioned above. Although MC tend to be excellent at teaching communication skills, a BPDer's issues are more serious and must be addressed before the marriage will be helped by acquiring simple communication skills.

 

If you have strong BPD traits, separation may help. Granted, if you are a BPDer, you absolutely HATE to be alone because you have such a weak sense of self and a great fear of abandonment. Yet, for BPDers, having a spouse around means that the BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) are frequently being triggered. Hence, if you are a BPDer, you are in a lose/lose situation. If your W leaves, you are miserable due to your abandonment fear and, if she stays, you will be miserable because she is frequently triggering your engulfment fear (i.e., a suffocating feeling of being controlled and taken over by your W's strong personality).

 

She already knows that you are changing. That's what emotionally unstable people do -- they change radically, flipping back and forth between Jekyll and Hyde, every few weeks (if not every few days). So she already knows all too well that you will change, and change, and change. What she doesn't know -- and what will be difficult to prove -- is that you have somehow undergone a LASTING change.

 

If you have strong BPD traits, there is little chance of you having any close long-term friends -- unless they live a long distance away. The reason is that, being unable to regulate your emotions, you frequently experience very intense feelings that distort your perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This means that you likely will take offense at something a close friend says or does -- and then will push them away.

 

Significantly, if you are a BPDer, you very likely interact VERY WELL with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. Because none of those people are close to you, none of them pose a threat to your two great fears. That is, there is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

 

The main problem with seeing a psychiatrist is that, because they have both a PhD in psychology and MD in medicine, you likely will pay twice the hourly rate charged by your psychologist. Moreover, psychiatrists typically do not focus on individual counseling because it is more lucrative to spend time on diagnosis and writing prescriptions.

 

This is why clients typically will see BOTH of these professionals. They usually will see the psychologist every week for therapy and, on his referral, will see the psychiatrist every few months for medication. Alternatively, some clients start out with the psychiatrist but then start spending nearly all their therapy time with the psychologist they are referred to.

 

Wow, Wow, Wow, and wow! No offence to anyone who has greatly supported me on here. But this is one of the best replies in terms of advice and "reading" me. I feel like you know me! I'm going to get that book. Thank you!! I seriously must have BPD. I don't like labels, but something is going on in my head. And you are absolutely right about my wife knowing my patterns of change. She will be NERVOUS about a true lasting change, which is why I think she has kicked me in the rear end and has figured this will wake me up! Question, is it stupid for me to go out and get my wife the "Stop walking on Eggshells book" and give it to her when I drop the kids off tonight?

[Downtown]

I seriously must have BPD.

Radarsat, BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is simply a set of basic human behaviors (ego defenses, actually) that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits. BPD therefore is called a "spectrum" disorder, which means everyone occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy).

 

Moreover, each of us moves about on that spectrum at various stages of our lives. During early childhood, for example, we all exhibit full-blown BPD behavior because we are too emotionally immature to control our feelings, to restrain our impulses, or to have a strong self image. And when the hormones surge during our teen years, many of us start behaving like BPDers all over again for two or three years. Similarly, it is common for women to experience a temporary flareup of their BPD traits when subject to the hormone changes caused by pregnancy, the monthly cycle, postpartum, or perimenopause.

 

At issue, then, is not whether you exhibit BPD traits. Of course you do. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether you exhibit those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., are on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met you, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you and your W can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your own issues. Only a professional can do that, i.e., determine whether your BPD traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your issues are sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on a weekly therapy program (e.g., DBT or CBT) to learn those emotional skills you had no opportunity to learn in childhood.

 

Generally, therapists are loath to tell a BPDer client the name of his disorder. As I said earlier, nearly all high functioning BPDers have no self awareness of their issues and have too little ego strength to willingly accept criticism. Therapists therefore know that telling a BPDer client the name of his disorder almost certainly means he will immediately quit therapy.

 

Yet, because you are amazingly self aware, there is a good chance a therapist will not withhold this information from you if you choose to bring it up yourself -- and if she agrees that your suspicions about having strong BPD traits are correct. On the other hand, even if she does agree you have strong BPD traits, it is unlikely she would record it formally as being the diagnosis. Instead, a therapist likely would record only the co-occurring "clinical disorder" -- such as depression, anxiety, or PTSD -- and decline to "label" you any further.

 

The reason for this is that, whereas clinical disorders typically are covered by insurance, BPD and other personality disorders usually are not. This, at least, is the common practice here in the States. I assume Canada is similar but I don't really know.

 

Question, is it stupid for me to go out and get my wife the "Stop walking on Eggshells book" and give it to her when I drop the kids off tonight?

If you suspect you really do have strong BPD traits, that "Eggshells" book would be a good choice for her to read. It is the best seller targeted to the spouses. The second-best seller is I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! If you really do exhibit strong BPD traits, your W likely will feel a chill go up her spine as she starts reading either of those two books -- because they will read like a biography of your life.

 

For yourself, however, I recommend you read a book targeted to BPDers, not their partners. That's why I recommended the "BPD Demystified" book to you above.