Research shows that people that have children are unhappier than those without

[Robert]

posts about the carbon footprint of humans on the earth in this thread are OFF TOPIC, please post to the topic.

[SerCay]

I like this post a lot. Thank you OP.

 

I also think as other posters, that you should have a child by choice, AND if you are financially able to take care of it.

 

On another note, I know it's off topic, but I have to express. As this happened a while ago when I started a thread on parenthood as well.

 

I always notice there are some moms on here, that go batsh*t crazy defensive/passive aggressive mode, when others express their opinion about parenthood. That on itself is just so annoying. Learn to have adult discussions, without throwing in your own defensive insecurities geez....don't ruin it for others to be reading this post, just because you are so defensive. Go and find out where your defensiveness is coming from INTRINSICALLY.

[thefooloftheyear]

If you are a self centered and selfish person, then surely kids are going to make you miserable...Your life is no longer your own and you need to put someone else's needs in front of your own...which is not easy for some people to do...

 

Its been my experience that childless people have an "emptiness" about them..They are more affected by relationship failures, and they usually immerse themselves in hobbies to an unhealthy degree and place a high degree of importance and emotional connection to things that most of the rest of us parents don't bother with,,,

 

Understand I am not criticizing anyone, just making an observation among the people in my circle, which is pretty large....I can generally say the same thing about those people that don't maintain/cultivate close relationships with family members...I think its imperative as people(even someone like myself, more of a lone wolf type), to have other people to count on, who you know love and care about you (and you the same for them), that aren't strangers...

 

Sure, family/kids/parents can let you down..I haven't had those experiences myself as I come from a very tight knit family and have a great relationship with my kid..But Id shudder to think that I had to base my entire emotional happiness on animals, my toys/hobbies...or someone I meet in the street.....

 

TFY

Edited September 7, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[lollipopspot]

If you are a self centered and selfish person, then surely kids are going to make you miserable...Your life is no longer your own and you need to put someone else's needs in front of your own...which is not easy for some people to do...

 

I think it's a shortcoming if people aren't able to care about someone's needs outside of their own. A lot of parents claim that it made them less selfish to have children, and project that experience onto others. Well, a lot of people weren't selfish before they had children, or without children. Many people who work in nonprofits and who volunteer their time don't have children - in fact, they may have more time for it. I think it's a higher calling actually to be able to care about others that aren't one's immediate clan. Clannishness is nothing special in humans. Real altruism for those who aren't in your own nuclear family is.

 

Its been my experience that childless people have an "emptiness" about them..They are more affected by relationship failures, and they usually immerse themselves in hobbies to an unhealthy degree and place a high degree of importance and emotional connection to things that most of the rest of us parents don't bother with

 

Well that's not my experience at all. Their are petty people who are childfree, and petty people who have children.

 

I don't think you spend time around people who are volunteering their time and trying consciously to make the world a better place?

[thefooloftheyear]

I think it's a shortcoming if people aren't able to care about someone's needs outside of their own. A lot of parents claim that it made them less selfish to have children, and project that experience onto others. Well, a lot of people weren't selfish before they had children, or without children. Many people who work in nonprofits and who volunteer their time don't have children - in fact, they may have more time for it. I think it's a higher calling actually to be able to care about others that aren't one's immediate clan. Clannishness is nothing special in humans. Real altruism for those who aren't in your own nuclear family is.

 

 

Well that's not my experience at all. Their are petty people who are childfree, and petty people who have children.

 

I don't think you spend time around people who are volunteering their time and trying consciously to make the world a better place?

 

I really don't see the point in rating the importance of volunteer work vs parenting...I mean, while I don't generally "volunteer"(no time)..I regularly donate financial resources and have assisted numerous less fortunate people/families through the years as a part of my business dealings with the community..

In addition, At my own expense, I have trained countless people and empowered them with the capability to actually earn a living and provide for their families....for the rest of their lives..

 

Higher calling? You can decide for yourself..

 

TFY

[lollipopspot]

Higher calling? You can decide for yourself..

 

Yeah, I think to the extent that someone's life is about service to those who one isn't related to, that's a higher calling than just taking care of one's own nuclear family. I see Mother Teresa taking care of many children as a higher calling than people like the Duggars who create 19 kids and then make it their mission to care for them. One is seeing a problem and trying to ease suffering, the other creates a situation where a lot of care is needed. It's not altruistic or particularly special to care for the kids that one creates, it's a choice to have had them and brought that situation about.

[PrettyEmily77]

Haven' t read the article - still don't really know how 'happiness' can be measured, with or without kids, but I don't have kids and I'm happy. I don't think the 2 are related though. The BF seems happy and raises 2 teenage boys pretty much by himself.

 

I also know people who have kids and are miserable - don't know whether it's related or not but scratching the surface, I think it's more to do with whether you tend towards happiness / a positive attitude in other areas of your life anyway, or if you're a stressy person in the first place and kids just add to the drama.

 

Probs best to choose to be happy either way.

[madjac74]

I may not have ever known happiness without having my kids. It just gets a little tiresome when people try to bring this topic up to make themselves feel superior over people who have to deal with the difficulties of raising children. We get it! It's easier and cheaper not to have them but those moments you get from having a child are priceless. Having your little girl tell you that you are her best friend, watching her in the spelling bee, watching your son make a last second shot in basketball, etc...I could go on forever.

 

I also respect many of my friends who have decided not to have children and I know the difficulties of those that wish they could have them

[WonderKid]

There is an unspoken taboo in our society where if you admit that having kids wasn't quite what you thought it would be and that if you could do it all over again that you would have chosen NOT to have kids, that you are a monster, an evil, despicable monster.

 

The truth is a large percentage of parents HATE being parents. They will never say it out loud and they can't even admit that to themselves because "only an evil demon" would come to that conclusion, they think.

 

However, underneath it all, underneath all the B.S. is the truth that we all know:

 

Children are overrated.

 

For every precious moment where the little brat does something special, there are 1,000 moments where they drive you crazy.

 

They literally tear your life upside down. Marriage, sex life, your body is shot (if you are a lady)..finances, you get grey hairs and quicker wrinkles

 

Oh yeah, the worst part is yet to come - the teenage years. I could write volumes on this subject.

 

The reason people have children is because of this unwritten societal norm where the standard is to get married and immediately begin to produce offspring because "that's the thing to do".

 

Here's another fact for you if you're interested in the subject: the highest points of having kids is A) Before they were born and B) when they get old and out your house.

[PrettyEmily77]

However, underneath it all, underneath all the B.S. is the truth that we all know.

 

Who's we? I wasn't aware of that particular truth, personally

[WonderKid]

Okay okay okay maybe not a we Lol

 

But you are aware of it now! Can you handle it!? O.o' Lol

[thefooloftheyear]

There is an unspoken taboo in our society where if you admit that having kids wasn't quite what you thought it would be and that if you could do it all over again that you would have chosen NOT to have kids, that you are a monster, an evil, despicable monster.

 

The truth is a large percentage of parents HATE being parents. They will never say it out loud and they can't even admit that to themselves because "only an evil demon" would come to that conclusion, they think.

 

However, underneath it all, underneath all the B.S. is the truth that we all know:

 

Children are overrated.

 

For every precious moment where the little brat does something special, there are 1,000 moments where they drive you crazy.

 

They literally tear your life upside down. Marriage, sex life, your body is shot (if you are a lady)..finances, you get grey hairs and quicker wrinkles

 

Oh yeah, the worst part is yet to come - the teenage years. I could write volumes on this subject.

 

The reason people have children is because of this unwritten societal norm where the standard is to get married and immediately begin to produce offspring because "that's the thing to do".

 

Here's another fact for you if you're interested in the subject: the highest points of having kids is A) Before they were born and B) when they get old and out your house.

 

 

Nah.......

 

You can use the same argument about not having money, not working out. whatever..

 

Its more about the age oild "sour grapes" story....

 

"If I can't/don't have it or do it, then it must suck"....

 

TFY

[veggirl]

Most people would never admit they would be happier without their children, but I do believe there are many people who feel that way. I think you'd find that sentiment more in a low-income, low-opportunity demographic rather than the rich white man who has a stay at home wife, for example.

 

On the flip side, there are many people who want children and don't have them.

 

I would be surprised if children / no children people differ a LOT in general happiness overall in a large sample.

[hotpotato]

Most people would never admit they would be happier without their children, but I do believe there are many people who feel that way. I think you'd find that sentiment more in a low-income, low-opportunity demographic rather than the rich white man who has a stay at home wife, for example.

 

On the flip side, there are many people who want children and don't have them.

 

I would be surprised if children / no children people differ a LOT in general happiness overall in a large sample.

 

Right. If you're rich and don't really have to deal with your kids, then it could be fun.

 

There's also huge difference between seeing a kid a few times and month and dealing with day in, day out. Kids are cute, but there not so cute when they're pooping everywhere, crying, just generally being unmanageable.

 

Some men who are married with kids reap the benefits of having the wife/gf take care of the kids most of the time. They still get their hobbies, get to hang out with their boys while wifey is at home with the kids. In some ways its almost like they are single and more of a babysitter. Hell, I have female fb friends with kids, and they say sometimes they can barely squeeze in a SHOWER.

Edited September 7, 2015 by hotpotato

[hotpotato]

Nah.......

 

You can use the same argument about not having money, not working out. whatever..

 

Its more about the age oild "sour grapes" story....

 

"If I can't/don't have it or do it, then it must suck"....

 

TFY

 

Or not. There are plenty of books about people who have children and hate them. A lot of reasons people have kids is selfish...

 

"I want to look good for society by having kids"

"" I want someone to take care of me when I'm older."

"I want someone to be there for me."

"I want someone to love me"

I want someone to be around for the holidays."

 

There are a lot of I's and Me's in there...

 

Plus, kids are very forgiving. Treat them like sh&t and most will still love mommy and daddy. No matter mommy and daddy do, people will mostly encourage neglected child to have a relationship with mommy and daddy, save sexual abuse.

 

And that baby making stuff really ruins women's bodies. I'm pro boob job, pro mommy makeover. Once those boobs droop or that tummy skin stretches, there's no stretching it back to original state not even with diet and exercise.

[Revolver]

The stigma is worse on married couples who don't have kids. I have a cousin who's been married for 2 1/2 years and people have started rumors that he's gay because they aren't popping out babies left and right. "What's wrong with them? Are they unhappy?"

[autumnnight]

Yeah, I think to the extent that someone's life is about service to those who one isn't related to, that's a higher calling than just taking care of one's own nuclear family. I see Mother Teresa taking care of many children as a higher calling than people like the Duggars who create 19 kids and then make it their mission to care for them. One is seeing a problem and trying to ease suffering, the other creates a situation where a lot of care is needed. It's not altruistic or particularly special to care for the kids that one creates, it's a choice to have had them and brought that situation about.

 

10 characters

Edited September 7, 2015 by autumnnight

[autumnnight]

I think people should make whatever choice is best for them.

 

That said, the absolute contempt some of you show for people who have children is astounding.

[xxoo]

Hell, I have female fb friends with kids, and they say sometimes they can barely squeeze in a SHOWER.

 

I was one of those women. I remember it well! And it wasn't because my husband wasn't an involved dad. He was, but especially with more than one kid, there are days that are long and hard for both parents.'

 

But here's the strange part: I very often miss that stage of my life

 

It would be interesting to ask people what they consider the happiest times of their lives. I've had a happy life, and we enjoyed 10 years of couple-hood before having our first child, but I can't imagine choosing a happiest time of my life that didn't include both of our kids. It's much harder, yes, but much more rewarding. I think the same could be said for a couple who has no kids but opens a restaurant, or a single person who takes on a life long dream project that offers huge challenge and huge reward.

 

My happiest times have always been when I'm fully engaged and living, not when things are easy and boring. Maybe that's a personality difference. Having children will bring challenge, chaos, work, stress, etc., so if you prefer life without those things, having kids may decrease happiness significantly. If you're the type who thrives on taking on challenges, and you want kids, it'll likely be a great experience.

[Shepp]

Its more about the age oild "sour grapes" story....

 

"If I can't/don't have it or do it, then it must suck"....

TFY

 

^ This this this!!

 

 

and not just this but 'it must suck and you must all agree with me!! remember it doesn't matter what you feel, or your own life experiences, if some academic makes up a stat then clearly that's the truth of it"

 

 

cut me a break

[Shepp]

I was one of those women. I remember it well! And it wasn't because my husband wasn't an involved dad. He was, but especially with more than one kid, there are days that are long and hard for both parents.'

 

But here's the strange part: I very often miss that stage of my life

 

It would be interesting to ask people what they consider the happiest times of their lives. I've had a happy life, and we enjoyed 10 years of couple-hood before having our first child, but I can't imagine choosing a happiest time of my life that didn't include both of our kids. It's much harder, yes, but much more rewarding. I think the same could be said for a couple who has no kids but opens a restaurant, or a single person who takes on a life long dream project that offers huge challenge and huge reward.

 

My happiest times have always been when I'm fully engaged and living, not when things are easy and boring. Maybe that's a personality difference. Having children will bring challenge, chaos, work, stress, etc., so if you prefer life without those things, having kids may decrease happiness significantly. If you're the type who thrives on taking on challenges, and you want kids, it'll likely be a great experience.

 

 

Such a great post

 

 

Y'know I remember a time in my life when my best mate would text me from his house next door to ask if I wanted to go to the river or the park, and I'd look out the window, decide whether I needed my jacket or my sunnies and be out the door to meet him by the time he reached my front gate.

 

 

Now leaving the house is not something to be taken lightly.. Get the buggy outside, get car seat in/out car, get baby sling, nappies, milk, look for keys, stop son 1 drawing on his sister, go back to looking for keys, get together all other supplies kids may need between now an their 18th birthday, find son 2 trying to give keys to dog, get kids outside, realise I've forgot my phone, head back inside, kids scatter like smoke, start to wonder if its even worth it, re gather my children, and congratulate myself on successfully leaving the house!

 

 

Would I go back - not for all the money in the world!

[thefooloftheyear]

 

And that baby making stuff really ruins women's bodies. I'm pro boob job, pro mommy makeover. Once those boobs droop or that tummy skin stretches, there's no stretching it back to original state not even with diet and exercise.

 

Totally false...and one of the most ridiculous arguments I hear..

 

I train in a gym with 40+ year old women(all moms) and some 50 year old(grannies) that all have tight asses, flat bellies and perky boobs...And I have seen fit women train hard right until the day of delivery and in barely a month look like they never had a kid..

 

Its all in what you do and how you take care of yourself, before, during and after pregnancy....Sure...If a woman decides to use the excuse of pregnancy to sit on her ass, gain dozens of unnecessary pounds eating french fries, pizza and ice cream..i'm sure its gonna be a burden to come back around..,

 

.I mean, I have been working hard manual labor for 30+ years, 60-70 hrs a week in all elements,stressed the hell out of myself owning and operating my own businesses, and yet I am built like a stud....With your theory I'd be dead already...

 

Those grapes aren't so bad after all...

 

TFY

[xxoo]

While I agree with TFY's above post in that women can look AMAZING after pregnancy and birth, without any cosmetic surgery, I also want to address the assertion that stretch marks and drooping breasts mean a woman's body is "ruined". Many of us women are really ok with our bodies changing somewhat as a result of pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding, and don't consider these changes to be huge negatives.

 

I'm fit and attractive and I have permanent changes due to my pregnancies. Attractive does not mean "no evidence of pregnancies".

[thefooloftheyear]

Here is the thing....

 

We all know that it doesnt take anything special to conceive a child..And sure, there are shytty people in general that wind up with kids..And there are naive women who decide to have kids under the misguided idea that now they have a man under their control for life..And there are guys that couldn't care or provide for a goldfish that think that having a kid makes them a man..The list is endless...

 

None(or maybe a small percentage) of these people are going to be happy, but then what would one expect at that point?

 

Take any loving couple(and even individuals) that are fully willing, capable and eager to have kids and very few will regret it...They are fully aware of all of whats involved and know the pitfalls beforehand...There are no real surprises....There certainly havent been any for me...Its everything I could have expected and a whole lot more...Almost all of it good..

 

TFY

[Quiet Storm]

If I had not become a parent, then I would've missed out on loving these three uniquely wonderful human beings that bring so much joy and laughter into my life. I'm sure I would've found happiness in other ways, but looking back, I feel like I would've robbed myself if I never became a mom.

 

Everyone's circumstances are different though. My parents have suffered immensely dealing with my sister's Borderline Personality Disorder. They blame themselves and find it hard to have a moment's peace. She is an adult, but not self sufficient, and they feel responsible for her. The nature of her disorder makes her a very difficult person to live with. It's hard for them to be happy because they can never exhale. They always have to be ready for more drama and heartache. Loving her isn't easy.