Should this be reported to managment?

[applej4]

Seems likely to me that if OP turned over his info to his employer, it was more or less convincing, and the employer took an interest, they'd conduct their own background investigation using reputable sources to make a determination.

"more or less convincing" ?

"took an interest" ?

Wow. So an employee should take on the responsibility of finding out such information, let employer know, then employer 'might' conduct their own investigation (AFTER they have already hired the person)? Wow. (shaking my head)

Edited September 9, 2015 by applej4

[Got it]

I really advise individuals being careful on their employment law advice and assumptions. If you are truly seeking to understand the nuances to this there are a number of employment law firms/employment law sites you can visit for more information.

 

If the OP is truly concerned he should turn the information over to HR and allow them to proceed with company policies, procedures and all state and federal laws. He can also check to see if his company has a whistleblower line that would allow him to relay the information confidentially.

[pink_sugar]

I'm still curious what prompted OP to investigate his collegue in the first place.

[SoleMate]

See detail at the federal DOL (U.S. Department of Labor - OFCCP - Directive 306). And Minnesota: MN Department of Human Rights : Employers : Hiring and Interviewing And most other states.

 

I stand by my claim that numerous convictions for serious violent felonies can legally be used as a reason to deny employment as long as there is a relationship to the job requirements (aggravated battery with intent to harm is relevant to pretty much any job with contact with other people) and there is no disparate impact or intent to discriminate based on impermissible factors (race, sex etc.) The US has many protected classes, but violent felons are not one of them.

 

Any seeming employment protections for violent felons must be balanced against liability on a negligent hiring theory.

 

Back to OP, the suggestion of a call to a whistleblowing hotline is a good one. Make it anonymous. I would strongly recommend NOT going to HR and NOT doing anything to reveal your identity to anyone at the company. (Do NOT discuss what you have learned and/or suspect with even a trusted friend or co-worker and do NOT use a company computer or phone.) The employee in question may feel aggrieved if he learns that a whistleblower is trying to get him booted from his well-paid job.

[Taramere]

I'm still curious what prompted OP to investigate his collegue in the first place.

 

Sounds as though he had a gut instinct about the guy...and with a list of charges like that to the colleague's name, evidently the OP's instincts are a lot better than his employers'. And that's extending the benefit of the doubt to the employer. It's hard to imagine somebody with the roll of honour attached to his name that this guy has not sending off other people's radars.

 

What person of good character is seriously going to amass a list of charges like that? "I was just minding my own business, being a good guy and trying to do right by my neighbours when suddenly yet again I was charged with aggravated battery. It's so unfair. Why do these things keep happening to me?" Plus, with a parole violation to his name, evidently he has at least one conviction.

 

With the record of allegations of violence (in one case with a deadly weapon) he has I think the OP could be putting himself seriously at risk if he deals with this in a way where he's likely to be identified as the snitch. Even more so if the employer does nothing. What sort of employer would want to keep on somebody with a background like this? What role would they see for him in the organisation, and why would they pay him so highly? Frankly it would make me wonder if other people at the top of the chain in that place were involved in nefarious activities. My trust in an organisation that would knowingly employ a guy with a list of charges like this one has to his name would certainly be paper thin.

 

I've no idea what sort of business the OP works for, and neither would I invite him to say (I think he's probably shared more than enough info already), but I would tread carefully around any employer who would recruit somebody who has this guy's history of trouble with the police. At best, the employers are gullible idiots with the gut instincts of a bunch of turnips. At worst, they know this guy is bad news - but for whatever reason regard him as useful to them. Either way, I'd be wanting to dissociate myself from them and find a better class of employer.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Taramere

[pink_sugar]

Sounds as though he had a gut instinct about the guy...and with a list of charges like that to the colleague's name, evidently the OP's instincts are a lot better than his employers'. And that's extending the benefit of the doubt to the employer. It's hard to imagine somebody with the roll of honour attached to his name that this guy has not sending off other people's radars.

 

What person of good character is seriously going to amass a list of charges like that? "I was just minding my own business, being a good guy and trying to do right by my neighbours when suddenly yet again I was charged with aggravated battery. It's so unfair. Why do these things keep happening to me?" Plus, with a parole violation to his name, evidently he has at least one conviction.

 

With the record of allegations of violence (in one case with a deadly weapon) he has I think the OP could be putting himself seriously at risk if he deals with this in a way where he's likely to be identified as the snitch. Even more so if the employer does nothing. What sort of employer would want to keep on somebody with a background like this? What role would they see for him in the organisation, and why would they pay him so highly? Frankly it would make me wonder if other people at the top of the chain in that place were involved in nefarious activities. My trust in an organisation that would knowingly employ a guy with a list of charges like this one has to his name would certainly be paper thin.

 

I've no idea what sort of business the OP works for, and neither would I invite him to say (I think he's probably shared more than enough info already), but I would tread carefully around any employer who would recruit somebody who has this guy's history of trouble with the police. At best, the employers are gullible idiots with the gut instincts of a bunch of turnips. At worst, they know this guy is bad news - but for whatever reason regard him as useful to them. Either way, I'd be wanting to dissociate myself from them and find a better class of employer.

 

I agree...there also could be someone on the inside who helped him get the job or he knew a friend of a friend...who knows. I think the OP is treading on risky waters here. He has the best interests of the company, but how he presents the info could be very risky. IMO, he would be best minding his own business unless he's feeling unsafe. It's not like this guy won't be terminate for any sort of misconduct, if he really is guilty as charged, he's also on thin ice.

[almond]

If you're not concerned about your safety, let it be. Sounds like an ex(?) addict who may have been dealt a ****ty hand in life. Sure, lots of that stuff (particularly the violence) is inexcusable if he is in fact guilty of it, but you don't know who this guy is, where he has been, or what he has come from. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes blah blah.

 

You don't know why he was charged, if he was convicted, or if he was even guilty.

 

It's the company's issue to protect themselves. Worry about yourself and doing your job and let this guy do his in peace.

 

I can't see what you've got to gain about sticking your nose in this, but you could definitely lose out if you push further. Leave it alone (unless this guy becomes a danger), and don't gossip to anyone at your workplace about it either.

Edited September 10, 2015 by almond

[jen1447]

Sounds as though he had a gut instinct about the guy...and with a list of charges like that to the colleague's name, evidently the OP's instincts are a lot better than his employers'. And that's extending the benefit of the doubt to the employer. It's hard to imagine somebody with the roll of honour attached to his name that this guy has not sending off other people's radars.

 

What person of good character is seriously going to amass a list of charges like that? "I was just minding my own business, being a good guy and trying to do right by my neighbours when suddenly yet again I was charged with aggravated battery. It's so unfair. Why do these things keep happening to me?" Plus, with a parole violation to his name, evidently he has at least one conviction.

 

With the record of allegations of violence (in one case with a deadly weapon) he has I think the OP could be putting himself seriously at risk if he deals with this in a way where he's likely to be identified as the snitch. Even more so if the employer does nothing. What sort of employer would want to keep on somebody with a background like this? What role would they see for him in the organisation, and why would they pay him so highly? Frankly it would make me wonder if other people at the top of the chain in that place were involved in nefarious activities. My trust in an organisation that would knowingly employ a guy with a list of charges like this one has to his name would certainly be paper thin.

 

I've no idea what sort of business the OP works for, and neither would I invite him to say (I think he's probably shared more than enough info already), but I would tread carefully around any employer who would recruit somebody who has this guy's history of trouble with the police. At best, the employers are gullible idiots with the gut instincts of a bunch of turnips. At worst, they know this guy is bad news - but for whatever reason regard him as useful to them. Either way, I'd be wanting to dissociate myself from them and find a better class of employer.

 

It's important to distinguish tho again between charges/arrests and convictions. Generally the only criminal matters that are public record are convictions, so if this guy was arrested and charged with a crime but not convicted, it wouldn't likely appear on a standard criminal history search. (There are some slip-thru-the-cracks exceptions.) That means the employer may well have run one and found nothing, if this guy doesn't actually have convictions. (He could also have convictions only for crimes they deem less serious, etc. Lots of possibilities.)

 

That's why I wanted to know the nature of OP's sources. If you were to go to management (anonymously or not) with a certified criminal conviction record from a police agency or court with jurisdiction over the subject, that would be compelling, but doing so with some random info you found from a Google search would be less so and might not even be particularly actionable on the part of the employer.

[Taramere]

It's important to distinguish tho again between charges/arrests and convictions. Generally the only criminal matters that are public record are convictions, so if this guy was arrested and charged with a crime but not convicted, it wouldn't likely appear on a standard criminal history search. (There are some slip-thru-the-cracks exceptions.) That means the employer may well have run one and found nothing, if this guy doesn't actually have convictions. (He could also have convictions only for crimes they deem less serious, etc. Lots of possibilities.)

 

That's why I wanted to know the nature of OP's sources. If you were to go to management (anonymously or not) with a certified criminal conviction record from a police agency or court with jurisdiction over the subject, that would be compelling, but doing so with some random info you found from a Google search would be less so and might not even be particularly actionable on the part of the employer.

 

I know what you're saying. I suppose that I'm not really thinking about this from a legal perspective. Whether or not this individual was guilty of the many offences he's been charged with, you just don't get into that amount of trouble (and with such serious charges resulting) unless you're a pretty dodgy sort of character. That might not sound fair, but sometimes we can't really afford to be fair. Not when our instincts are giving us sharp messages about other people who we ought not to trust.

 

The general sense I'm getting is that this is a business where there's a fairly heavy empasis on manual labour, working in a yard etc. The kind of setting featuring a lot of people from working class backgrounds who may have grown up in close proximity to troublemakers and therefore are often going to have a pretty good nose for them.

 

Like the OP. Whatever people think of him snooping into this guy's background (and in his position, with that bad vibe/instinct I was getting I would have done the same) it sounds to me as though he has sharp people instincts. He had this guy's measure very quickly - so I suppose I'd invite him to consider what his instincts about the company are. Whether he thinks this guy has been taken on as a result of somebody's naivety/poor judgement, or if he's been taken on as a result of contacts he has within the organisation.

 

Either way, the OP probably doesn't want to whistleblow as it's likely to go badly for him - but what his instincts tell him about the company he's working for might help him to make a decision about whether he should be staying where he is and let Mr Trouble pull himself enough rope to hang himself, or if it's time for the OP to look for employment with another company that will offer a better class of colleague.

[Got it]

It's important to distinguish tho again between charges/arrests and convictions. Generally the only criminal matters that are public record are convictions, so if this guy was arrested and charged with a crime but not convicted, it wouldn't likely appear on a standard criminal history search. (There are some slip-thru-the-cracks exceptions.) That means the employer may well have run one and found nothing, if this guy doesn't actually have convictions. (He could also have convictions only for crimes they deem less serious, etc. Lots of possibilities.)

 

That's why I wanted to know the nature of OP's sources. If you were to go to management (anonymously or not) with a certified criminal conviction record from a police agency or court with jurisdiction over the subject, that would be compelling, but doing so with some random info you found from a Google search would be less so and might not even be particularly actionable on the part of the employer.

 

 

Actually not completely true. We see them fairly routinely on background checks. They will show a pending status or a dismissed status or whatever the plead down/conviction ended up being. But it is not uncommon to see arrest on a background check report even if there was no conviction. So it does take someone reading them correctly to see exactly what they are dealing with.

 

I really am confused by the concern on bringing the information forward, I don't know why there is an assumption that it would reflect badly on the OP or there would be an retaliation by the company for having done so. If concerned I would bring it forward instead of stewing over it. It doesn't need to be framed in a negative/accusatory manner but in a "I came across this/it was brought to my attention, because of this I wanted to make sure I made the company aware of it. I have kept it confidential but felt telling HR/Management/Legal about it was the right thing to do. Thank you. If framed in a "gotcha" message, that would reflect negatively.

 

If the company deals with the public, they will have a 800 number complain line the OP could use to report it as well. There are NUMEROUS ways this can be reported discretely, respectfully and appropriately.

[jen1447]

Actually not completely true. We see them fairly routinely on background checks. They will show a pending status or a dismissed status or whatever the plead down/conviction ended up being. But it is not uncommon to see arrest on a background check report even if there was no conviction. So it does take someone reading them correctly to see exactly what they are dealing with.

 

I really am confused by the concern on bringing the information forward, I don't know why there is an assumption that it would reflect badly on the OP or there would be an retaliation by the company for having done so. If concerned I would bring it forward instead of stewing over it. It doesn't need to be framed in a negative/accusatory manner but in a "I came across this/it was brought to my attention, because of this I wanted to make sure I made the company aware of it. I have kept it confidential but felt telling HR/Management/Legal about it was the right thing to do. Thank you. If framed in a "gotcha" message, that would reflect negatively.

 

If the company deals with the public, they will have a 800 number complain line the OP could use to report it as well. There are NUMEROUS ways this can be reported discretely, respectfully and appropriately.

 

I suppose a lot of it depends on the environment (e.g. a rough-house blue collar shop floor where fights are common vs. a more 21st century assembly line, shady supervisors vs. stand up ppl, etc.), but I tend to agree that a discreet and truthful report wouldn't tend to be an issue - again assuming the info was credible to begin with, not from 'Uncle Freddy's rap sheets dot com.'

 

You're right that arrest and charge info appears on public records from time to time, but my understanding (and I know more about gathering the info than interpreting it admittedly) is that it can't be used to make determinations. That actually makes sense, bc without a conviction you don't really know that they did anything.

 

The Nolo link you posted frequently refers to employers "asking about" arrest/charge info ....I wonder if that literally means that in some circumstances (like felony-related arrests vs. misdemeanor-related arrests) they're at liberty to "ask," like during interviews. Such as "hey, did you actually do that robbery in your arrest report?" and if they said yes they could act on it but otherwise not?

[Got it]

I suppose a lot of it depends on the environment (e.g. a rough-house blue collar shop floor where fights are common vs. a more 21st century assembly line, shady supervisors vs. stand up ppl, etc.), but I tend to agree that a discreet and truthful report wouldn't tend to be an issue - again assuming the info was credible to begin with, not from 'Uncle Freddy's rap sheets dot com.'

 

You're right that arrest and charge info appears on public records from time to time, but my understanding (and I know more about gathering the info than interpreting it admittedly) is that it can't be used to make determinations. That actually makes sense, bc without a conviction you don't really know that they did anything.

 

The Nolo link you posted frequently refers to employers "asking about" arrest/charge info ....I wonder if that literally means that in some circumstances (like felony-related arrests vs. misdemeanor-related arrests) they're at liberty to "ask," like during interviews. Such as "hey, did you actually do that robbery in your arrest report?" and if they said yes they could act on it but otherwise not?

 

Sorry, what I meant is that is information one will receive from a background check vendor. Not something one finds on the internet, etc.

 

Well one is not supposed to make their interview process pursuant on the background check so it should be the last thing done after having made a written offer. Then a background check is pulled, if there is something on it that may impact hiring, the candidate should be contacted, a written statement should be given providing more information on the details of what was involved and then the company decides if it fits the threshold allowed/necessary to decline the offer.

 

But many will walk the line on what is allowed so not surprised a hiring manager doesn't ask about an arrest.

 

The public will bring things to a company's attention as well like this, not just employees. There are a number of activist watch groups on sex offenders, for example, and will get names of employees and run them through Megan's List, etc. to see what sex offenders are working there.

 

So, for example, someone can have a conviction of sex with a minor and a degree listed by it. So this is alarming. But when speaking to the person, gathering more information (as they will sometimes supply information from their attorney to help their case), you will find it was a 18/19 year having had sex with a 16/17 year. Not great but still, does a company not hire/promote/etc this person? Usually would make sense to go ahead and move them forward.

 

It really is a fine line on what an employer can do and what they can't. People/public want companies to protect people from others especially with a non white collar crime. But then people have a right to rehabilitation and move on and having their rights protected as well.

 

So, I think the OP should say something, but not assume he will know, if anything, is done about it. But it will clear his conscience something was said and he did everything he could by taking it to the powers that be.

[ARegularGuy]

Great discussion everybody, thanks to ALL of you for your input.

 

I have worked in law enforcement in the past with training on various things that helped my "cat's whiskers" tingle on this guy. Sometimes you can just tell.

 

When I said I wasn't concerned about my safety, I meant me personally, but I have co-workers that I am very close with that could be vulnerable to someone like him. My concern is for them.

 

While I couldn't find true final dispositions on some of the charges I listed in my first post, I did on many. He has spent time in prison (not jail) in 2 states, he is a convicted felon.

 

To update the situation, the information has reached management. I may or may not have been involved in it getting there. They are researching the issue and were NOT aware of his background. We'll see.

 

Again, thank all of you for showing me the many sides of this mess. As I said, I've reached the point in my life where I don't really care what happens to me, but I DO care about other people, and it is them I want to keep safe.

[kenmore]

He has had seventeen slaps on the wrist, don't you think he has suffered enough?!

[Qboro90]

With a rap sheet and history like that guy has.....let's hope he never finds out or has an inkling as to who brought it up to management. Doesn't seem like someone who would bypass a violent revenge altercation.

[Taramere]

Great discussion everybody, thanks to ALL of you for your input.

 

I have worked in law enforcement in the past with training on various things that helped my "cat's whiskers" tingle on this guy. Sometimes you can just tell.

 

 

I think with your background in law enforcement, approaching your employer about this is the right thing to do. People are probably going to be more accepting of the notion that somebody in law enforcement would have good instincts. If you were a regular person who had never had the kind of training that heightens instincts, they might be more suspicious that you were just generally prone to snooping on other employees.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I have to question OP motives. Is OP going to report this employee out of the goodness of his heart and loyalty to the employer? Please

 

It sounds to me like OP is envious of this guy's position/salary and decided to try and dig up dirt. Maybe OP is hoping to get his role.

 

You know? It's fine to do that. It's just annoying to me that OP is pretending to want to "help". This behavior is pretty much at the core of what bothers me about humans.

[applej4]

I don’t think OP is jealous/resentful of the guy’s position or salary. I’m not so sure that OP’s motives are altruistic (wanting to help and protect others.) But I do know exactly what OP means about cat’s whiskers. Sometimes you get a feeling about someone – that something is off. It can be fueled by things they say, do, or even things you’ve heard.

 

I once worked with someone who I wanted so badly to like and get along with. I had been offered her position before she came, but I’d turned it down because it was a little more money and a lot more travel. Boss resented me for doing that. So M was hired and she came in like gangbusters, full of energy, great ideas, and a lot of spunk – and she had the boss’s ear. She was attractive, married, and her office was next to my cubicle. Her first week she told me that she had worked at various places with nasty people and that women were threatened by her. M also said she had been sexually harassed (although this was before the term was so common.) But I noticed that she was very flirty with the men in the office, and they reveled in it. There was also suspicion that she was coming in after/before hours going thru people’s desks. I set a trap for her and she fell into it, then lied her way out of it. Then I discovered she was sleeping with the Director of HR, hoping to get promoted. M didn’t get the promotion and threw a hissy – claiming again she’d been sexually harassed. Was I jealous and resentful? No. I didn't like M because she was bigtime t-r-o-u-b-l-e. What a mess that was.

 

As far as this guy in OP’s plant/office, I would not want to be around him – at all.

Edited September 11, 2015 by applej4

[Taramere]

I have to question OP motives. Is OP going to report this employee out of the goodness of his heart and loyalty to the employer? Please

 

It sounds to me like OP is envious of this guy's position/salary and decided to try and dig up dirt. Maybe OP is hoping to get his role.

 

You know? It's fine to do that. It's just annoying to me that OP is pretending to want to "help". This behavior is pretty much at the core of what bothers me about humans.

 

I think you might be doing him a disservice, ES. He's an ex law enforcement officer. People go into that job for a variety of reasons, but of the ones I've met there usually is a fairly strongly protective element to their personalities. He's talking about a guy who has been charged several times for battery. One time with a deadly weapon, and another time to somebody's bodily injury. Another charge involved burglary and bodily injury.

 

Would you feel safe and comfortable around somebody who had that many violent charges in his past? If you discovered a colleague you were expected to trust (and maybe sometimes work late around) had that background, and you also discovered that another colleague (one you regarded as a friend and who was also an ex copper) had been well aware of it for ages...how would you really feel?

 

Maybe he does have some envy re the salary the guy is getting? Who knows? Or maybe he thinks it just sucks (in terms of fairness) that an individual like that is given a respectable high earning job. I think sometimes you can lay out all your motives for doing X on the table in front of you, examine and admit to the less honourable ones - and still be left with the conclusion that X is the action you're morally more comfortable with taking.

 

I certainly don't think a person should avoid taking protective (of other people) action simply because some of their motives for doing so might be less than pure. But in any event, it's impossible to see into the OP's mind and really know his motives. I would still tend towards the view that somebody with a past in law enforcement is probably more likely to feel an extra level of duty to that which the normal citizen feels. "Protect and Serve" etc.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Taramere

[ARegularGuy]

On the questions to my motive, I guess the world has become quite cynical which is understandable. His position/pay has absolutely nothing to do with it. I have no training or experience (or interest) in what his job entails, and vice versa. Plus he doesn't get paid that much more than I do. If he were to get fired tonight it wouldn't effect my position one bit. I work in a completely different department than he does.

 

While I will admit that there is one person in particular that I was most concerned about in this situation there is concern for others. This is a relatively small factory in a very small, rural community. Most of the people that work there are people I grew up with, have known all my life, or their children. People you care about. Life long friends.

 

I am a caring person. I know that is rare these days, but I am who I am.

 

In regard to the one I was most concerned about, I HAVE talked to her about this, and she has taken the steps to avoid contact with him. I just feel the rest of the workers need protection too.

[pink_sugar]

On the questions to my motive, I guess the world has become quite cynical which is understandable. His position/pay has absolutely nothing to do with it. I have no training or experience (or interest) in what his job entails, and vice versa. Plus he doesn't get paid that much more than I do. If he were to get fired tonight it wouldn't effect my position one bit. I work in a completely different department than he does.

 

While I will admit that there is one person in particular that I was most concerned about in this situation there is concern for others. This is a relatively small factory in a very small, rural community. Most of the people that work there are people I grew up with, have known all my life, or their children. People you care about. Life long friends.

 

I am a caring person. I know that is rare these days, but I am who I am.

 

In regard to the one I was most concerned about, I HAVE talked to her about this, and she has taken the steps to avoid contact with him. I just feel the rest of the workers need protection too.

 

If that is the case, he could have likely gotten the job because he knew someone or a friend of a friend did. So I would tread lightly as to not tarnish your own reputation. Have you made a decision?

[pink_sugar]

With a rap sheet and history like that guy has.....let's hope he never finds out or has an inkling as to who brought it up to management. Doesn't seem like someone who would bypass a violent revenge altercation.

 

Yup...if the guy's track record is true...you better hope there isn't a leak in your management since everyone seems to be friends at your company.

[ARegularGuy]

It cannot be traced back to me.

 

He wasn't at work last night and no one knows why.

[pink_sugar]

It cannot be traced back to me.

 

He wasn't at work last night and no one knows why.

 

Sooo did you report?

[ARegularGuy]

I did not personally report it, but I planted the seed.