gettingstronger Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You are a highly competitive person which usually works to your advantage but in this case you feel you lost out to a lesser opponent- let that part go and it will probably help your healing- there are no winners or losers- just people- 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I personally would have never given up my better job like you did. And actually, you were in a much stronger position than him.....in that he had way more to loose. I take it that you just couldn't handle any contact with him? Believe me if his wife insisted on him leaving to save the marriage, then he'd have either done it or divorced her. You know on the flip side, the BWs think that the OW goes off a scot free as well. While they suffer from triggers, paranoia, weight loss, loss of the good feeling around anniversaries, birthdays etc. That craziness of monitoring phones and gps trackers ......I couldn't do it but yes, -they suffer and just because they don't divorce now , doesn't mean they won't later on as a result of the infidelity. AND I'm sure didnt tell her EVERYTHING. He's a proven liar, so you can't expect honestyfrom him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
What_Did_I_Do Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You appear to be in the anger phase of your grieving - which is good. I've done my MM work favours, set him up with a lucrative account and received nothing in return. Self righteous *sshole. My own fault. His email to you is a feeble diatribe of "poor me". My MM also claims he does the majority of housework, cooking, all the yard work and laundry while she watches TV and attends book club meetings. But here's why they stay married NL...they feel wanted and/or needed at home in whatever capacity. It doesn't matter what the OW looks like, her independence (or lack of) or even how she makes him feel. He has an ingrained duty as head of the household and to the mother of his children, therefore he will serve. We are probably light years ahead of the BS in the looks and achievement department, but it doesn't matter. He fails as a "man" should he walk away. I'm not entirely opposed to a little bit of revenge 2 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You appear to be in the anger phase of your grieving - which is good. I've done my MM work favours, set him up with a lucrative account and received nothing in return. Self righteous *sshole. My own fault. His email to you is a feeble diatribe of "poor me". My MM also claims he does the majority of housework, cooking, all the yard work and laundry while she watches TV and attends book club meetings. But here's why they stay married NL...they feel wanted and/or needed at home in whatever capacity. It doesn't matter what the OW looks like, her independence (or lack of) or even how she makes him feel. He has an ingrained duty as head of the household and to the mother of his children, therefore he will serve. We are probably light years ahead of the BS in the looks and achievement department, but it doesn't matter. He fails as a "man" should he walk away. I'm not entirely opposed to a little bit of revenge I agree that the MMs choice to stay married likely has little to with the OW's looks, her independence and how she makes the MM feel, just like I think the MM's choice to have an affair has little to do with his wife. MM who cheat are selfish people with poor relationship skills when it comes to conflict. It doesn't have anything to do with which woman is better. There are many beautiful educated loving women who have had their heart broken by a cheating husband so I can't agree that the OW is superior to the BW and I'm not sure that it's healthy to compare because relationships and love are comprised of so much more than looks and financial success. The MM is the problem. He is selfish and self serving. If he's going to me miserable in his marriage, then he'd likely be miserable no matter what. Cheaters generally have to do some soul searching and some heavy lifting to fix their own issues before they can be good partners to anyone. Just leaving his spouse won't fix him. NL it's totally normal to have these feelings and thoughts. Hang in there, because it's all part of the healing and better days are coming. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 You are a highly competitive person which usually works to your advantage but in this case you feel you lost out to a lesser opponent- let that part go and it will probably help your healing- there are no winners or losers- just people- This is a great point. I am also going to throw in a counterpoint: in any situation where I personally don't come top, I always look to the person who bested me, not out of jealousy, but to see what they had that I didn't, or how they performed that I didn't so I can learn new tings, or different ways of thinking. however in the above, it wasn't jealousy, learning or self awareness. just plain me being petty Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I agree that the MMs choice to stay married likely has little to with the OW's looks, her independence and how she makes the MM feel, just like I think the MM's choice to have an affair has little to do with his wife. MM who cheat are selfish people with poor relationship skills when it comes to conflict. It doesn't have anything to do with which woman is better. There are many beautiful educated loving women who have had their heart broken by a cheating husband so I can't agree that the OW is superior to the BW and I'm not sure that it's healthy to compare because relationships and love are comprised of so much more than looks and financial success. The MM is the problem. He is selfish and self serving. If he's going to me miserable in his marriage, then he'd likely be miserable no matter what. Cheaters generally have to do some soul searching and some heavy lifting to fix their own issues before they can be good partners to anyone. Just leaving his spouse won't fix him. NL it's totally normal to have these feelings and thoughts. Hang in there, because it's all part of the healing and better days are coming. Thanks anika see my response above yours . just being petty Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Man's a fool! Tell me where he lives and i'll chuck some mud on your behalf! Xx Not in the UK. we will have to pretend and just mentally fling mud x Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Believe me as a BW I well know the burning desire to take revenge and see someone who has hurt me badly, hurt just as much themselves. I felt the best way to "hurt" the OW in my situation was exposure of what she'd done. This is given that I wasn't willing to physically damage her or do anything illegal. I appreciate that by telling her and her husband's family, they got hurt as well. Rightly or wrongly I rationalised this as, if she had stayed away from my family then I would never have had any reason to approach her family. I also wanted my WH to understand and experience the level of pain that had been inflicted on me and no doubt the OW as well. At some level I almost hoped that the OW would do whatever she could to him, to make him hurt. But she never did, so in that sense he did get off more lightly than could have happened. I certainly was prepared for, and would have understood if she'd taken some sort of revenge on him. Now I'm on LS I see that many OW toy with the thought of taking revenge on the MM if and when he "throws them under the bus", but not that many actually do something. I'm sure it's possible to get creative and do something that's well within the bounds of legality but still serves as both a punishment and deterrent against future behaviour. I say go for it! Susmay as tempting as this is, there is no way that anything I could do would affect only exMM. Even though BW has some issues, she never did anything to me personally really so I couldn't possibly put her in the collateral damage space. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think revenge fantasies are fine (anger is actually a 'productive' emotion in that you can do sth with it, unlike emotions like sadness), but the only enacted revenge that's actually worthwhile and effective is living well. 'Getting him' would only make him resent/dislike you, whereas living well will make him feel irrelevant. (The second one's a far worse thing to feel.) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think revenge fantasies are fine (anger is actually a 'productive' emotion in that you can do sth with it, unlike emotions like sadness), but the only enacted revenge that's actually worthwhile and effective is living well. 'Getting him' would only make him resent/dislike you, whereas living well will make him feel irrelevant. (The second one's a far worse thing to feel.) Jen not to be rude but why the F would I care if he resents or dislikes me? He's a complete arse who messed me about for years 3 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Jen not to be rude but why the F would I care if he resents or dislikes me? He's a complete arse who messed me about for years I assume you want the 'best' revenge, right? Resentment and dislike aren't it, mainly bc like I mentioned above, those are emotions ppl can generally do sth with - use as fuel for agendas/rationalizations/manifestos, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I assume you want the 'best' revenge, right? Resentment and dislike aren't it, mainly bc like I mentioned above, those are emotions ppl can generally do sth with - use as fuel for agendas/rationalizations/manifestos, etc. I actually don't "want" revenge, it's a fantasy. Thankfully I don't have resentment but I do have bouts of being incredibly angry once a week or so. Not sure if you are familiar with my story but if you are you may understand why Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I actually don't "want" revenge, it's a fantasy. Thankfully I don't have resentment but I do have bouts of being incredibly angry once a week or so. Not sure if you are familiar with my story but if you are you may understand why I'm generally familiar but I haven't read your thread(s) in detail yet. (I've meant to but they appear a bit daunting as far as that goes. ) On revenge fantasies, I don't think that having them ameliorates the need for basic resolution (what would be revenge in some ppl's minds). So you may not want to actually nuke MM's house, tho the fantasy is fun, but you do want him to experience some sort of ....something, that would allow you to walk away with some dignity and resolution right? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet Storm Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Less than 48 hours before Dday, he got a second IC to help out with the main one, and that's part of the transcript of the session. This is why I am still in shock Unhealthy, dysfunctional bonds can be just as powerful as relationships that are positive (like friendship and healthy love). Even stronger, in some cases. Many people assume that positive feelings like romance and love will prompt action, but unhealthy patterns and dynamics can have a very strong hold on people. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Unhealthy, dysfunctional bonds can be just as powerful as relationships that are positive (like friendship and healthy love). Even stronger, in some cases. Many people assume that positive feelings like romance and love will prompt action, but unhealthy patterns and dynamics can have a very strong hold on people. Quiet thanks for your post, I am a bit confused. Sometimes really bad relationships hold strength? Link to post Share on other sites
Susmay Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Susmay as tempting as this is, there is no way that anything I could do would affect only exMM. Even though BW has some issues, she never did anything to me personally really so I couldn't possibly put her in the collateral damage space. That's a generous sentiment. Prior to D-day the OW has a lot of "power" regarding information that is unknown to the BW. After D-day, and in my case, that "power" is diminished and that sentiment would have been somewhat misplaced. I'm not sure how other BWs think, but... As a BW myself, there's not much the OW could have done that could have hurt me more than he did. Which is why, I suppose, I was prepared for her to do her worst. I would have trusted that she too would not go beyond what would be legal. She didn't and almost certainly would never... He was the one with the real power to hurt me and he did! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Susmay Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Quiet thanks for your post, I am a bit confused. Sometimes really bad relationships hold strength? I think QS is referring to "trauma bonding" but she can explain it herself. Stockholm syndrome is a form of trauma bonding as I understand it. Link to post Share on other sites
Susmay Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I think revenge fantasies are fine (anger is actually a 'productive' emotion in that you can do sth with it, unlike emotions like sadness), but the only enacted revenge that's actually worthwhile and effective is living well. 'Getting him' would only make him resent/dislike you, whereas living well will make him feel irrelevant. (The second one's a far worse thing to feel.) I don't necessarily agree with the bolded above. It seems to stem from a religious or moral viewpoint of the "turn the other cheek" or "be the better person" variety. (I'm not saying you might be religious, just that this is where this sort of attitude is prevalent) Sometimes a "creative" revenge can be very effective. It can also satisfy our innate desire to see somebody get an appropriate punishment or consequence for what they've done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet Storm Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Quiet thanks for your post, I am a bit confused. Sometimes really bad relationships hold strength? Yes, which explains why dysfunctional relationships often last for many years. I'm not saying it's a healthy, good strength. Just that unhealthy bonds can drive a person's behavior as much as friendship and love, depending on the person and their issues, emotional maturity, etc. In long relationships it becomes an engrained pattern, a dysfunctional dance. His wife is the narcissist, and he is the perpetual victim of the narcissist. He's really just a pathetic, weak man with issues and you are so much better off without him in your life. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 I'm generally familiar but I haven't read your thread(s) in detail yet. (I've meant to but they appear a bit daunting as far as that goes. ) On revenge fantasies, I don't think that having them ameliorates the need for basic resolution (what would be revenge in some ppl's minds). So you may not want to actually nuke MM's house, tho the fantasy is fun, but you do want him to experience some sort of ....something, that would allow you to walk away with some dignity and resolution right? I would have liked an explanation or apology. I'll never get it. I've accepted that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 That's a generous sentiment. Prior to D-day the OW has a lot of "power" regarding information that is unknown to the BW. After D-day, and in my case, that "power" is diminished and that sentiment would have been somewhat misplaced. I'm not sure how other BWs think, but... As a BW myself, there's not much the OW could have done that could have hurt me more than he did. Which is why, I suppose, I was prepared for her to do her worst. I would have trusted that she too would not go beyond what would be legal. She didn't and almost certainly would never... He was the one with the real power to hurt me and he did! I have to believe that exMM did not tell BW everything. However he told her something which I'm sure hurt like hell. I could tell her everything, or get him done in with anon ethics for gross misconduct, which on some level feels like just consequences but looking at this situation holistically, BS (no matter if she was the best or worst wife) certainly didn't tell him to go lying around saying he was separated nor was she the impetus for his body part falling in to me during those 6 months repeatedly If I do anything to his employment (certainly legal and just) they will have to sell their house and rip the kids out of uni. What I hope for (and you and I know this happens more often than not) is that the truth will out, BW will see exMM for who he is, put him out and in their state there is lifetime alimony and for her to financially take him to the cleaners. If he did try to remarry in her life time, she could petition the court for change in circumstances and attach the wages of the new wife too. fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites
Susmay Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I have to believe that exMM did not tell BW everything. However he told her something which I'm sure hurt like hell. I could tell her everything, or get him done in with anon ethics for gross misconduct, which on some level feels like just consequences but looking at this situation holistically, BS (no matter if she was the best or worst wife) certainly didn't tell him to go lying around saying he was separated nor was she the impetus for his body part falling in to me during those 6 months repeatedly If I do anything to his employment (certainly legal and just) they will have to sell their house and rip the kids out of uni. What I hope for (and you and I know this happens more often than not) is that the truth will out, BW will see exMM for who he is, put him out and in their state there is lifetime alimony and for her to financially take him to the cleaners. If he did try to remarry in her life time, she could petition the court for change in circumstances and attach the wages of the new wife too. fingers crossed! Re the bolded. If it were me I'd give it a helping hand. And as an aside, it's amazing there are still parts of the so called civilised world that not only award lifetime spousal support but also allow funds to come from any new spouse. Or maybe it's just that all income from the new family unit is taken into account when assessing what the former spouse has to pay. Now I think about it there might be some provision here but it's rarely exercised for a lifetime, and probably would need regularly review. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't necessarily agree with the bolded above. It seems to stem from a religious or moral viewpoint of the "turn the other cheek" or "be the better person" variety. (I'm not saying you might be religious, just that this is where this sort of attitude is prevalent) Sometimes a "creative" revenge can be very effective. It can also satisfy our innate desire to see somebody get an appropriate punishment or consequence for what they've done. I never really thought of "the best revenge is living well" as a moral or religious view so much as it is a logical truth based on the psychology of human beings. The OP is angry and naturally enjoying revenge fantasies but sometime in the not too distant future she is going to get on with life and finding new happiness and when that happens the MM will no longer even be on her mind. One day she will wake up and realize that it's been ages since she even thought of him and that realization is going to feel about a thousand times better then the revenge fantasies she's having right now. When she starts living well and finding joy, she really won't give a damn about the MM or getting revenge. Imagine you dumped someone and then about six months later you kind of regret the break up so you snoop on them and somehow you get knowledge of how they have been living since being left by you. Which would make you feel more insignificant? Learning that they have spent everyday since the break up thinking about you and plotting to get even with you? Or learning that after you left they cried for a few days and then picked themselves up, put you in the past and started making a new life for themselves. Now they are fabulously happy and they never even so much as mention your name? Which of those things would make you think maybe you weren't all that and a bag of chips? While the idea of an ex plotting and scheming their revenge on me might be a little scary it would also make me feel like I must really be something to have had such a huge impact on them. Why they just can't get me out of their head and move on, I must have been someone really special. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NewLeaf512 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 I never really thought of "the best revenge is living well" as a moral or religious view so much as it is a logical truth based on the psychology of human beings. The OP is angry and naturally enjoying revenge fantasies but sometime in the not too distant future she is going to get on with life and finding new happiness and when that happens the MM will no longer even be on her mind. One day she will wake up and realize that it's been ages since she even thought of him and that realization is going to feel about a thousand times better then the revenge fantasies she's having right now. When she starts living well and finding joy, she really won't give a damn about the MM or getting revenge. Imagine you dumped someone and then about six months later you kind of regret the break up so you snoop on them and somehow you get knowledge of how they have been living since being left by you. Which would make you feel more insignificant? Learning that they have spent everyday since the break up thinking about you and plotting to get even with you? Or learning that after you left they cried for a few days and then picked themselves up, put you in the past and started making a new life for themselves. Now they are fabulously happy and they never even so much as mention your name? Which of those things would make you think maybe you weren't all that and a bag of chips? While the idea of an ex plotting and scheming their revenge on me might be a little scary it would also make me feel like I must really be something to have had such a huge impact on them. Why they just can't get me out of their head and move on, I must have been someone really specia. Or just to give an opposing view it could be that you were such a douche you deserve getting a G-d Smack Link to post Share on other sites
Susmay Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 ... but the only enacted revenge that's actually worthwhile and effective is living well. 'Getting him' would only make him resent/dislike you, whereas living well will make him feel irrelevant. (The second one's a far worse thing to feel.) I never really thought of "the best revenge is living well" as a moral or religious view so much as it is a logical truth based on the psychology of human beings. ... Both of you seem to feel that "living well" is either the "only" or "best" or "logical" type of revenge. I happen to disagree and feel there are other forms of revenge that serve the purpose of revenge just as well. Link to post Share on other sites
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