Neediness, Insecurity, and Reconciliation

[Universe]

Hanging with ex for the past month has really given me a lot of insight in to what it is about me that made our relationship fail. We've been secretly back together i.e. making out a lot and a few sexual exchanges without intercourse. We've been talking a lot and trying to take it slow.

But the main thing that I've come to realize is just how needy I am and how it makes me so insecure. I tried so hard for 6 months to become more confident and comfortable with myself and be strong and secure. It worked and eventually I got her back. But now the truth is finding its way to the surface. It first came out as me being clingy. I could seem to tear myself away from her and took every stretch of independence on her part as a rejection. I noticed this and tried not to be so clingy. But I couldn't help the rejection that I would feel. Soon I felt hurt and confused because after almost a month of hooking up and coming really close, she was still rejecting sex claiming she was afraid of giving me an STD. She only had sex with the one guy although he had had many partners. She has been to her gynocologist and cleared of everything. They always used condoms and didn't have sex that much. But she still feels wierd about it and wants to wait. She's promised we would have sex soon. But that was over two weeks ago.

So I started feeling like she wasn't being totally honest with me about it because it seemed absurd. But then I realized that my feeling rejected about it was just neediness surfacing. It's understandable that she doesn't feel ready yet. And I really appreciate her concern for my health. Since discussing all this with her, we decided that I should not spend the night at her place anymore unless we're going to have sex.

So I've really been trying to understand my neediness and where it comes from. I'm trying to kill it at it's source which the phych books say is buried in my childhood. I'm back living with my parents since the breakup and I can really see how my mother suffers from the exact same things that I do, only her case is far more severe. She's extremely needy and insecure. She's so defensive that she isn't receiving any of the love that me or my sister try to give her. And I'm the same way. I've been unable to receive the love my ex tried to give. And she can never give enough because I am so needy.

But after seeking help on this I'm feeling much better about it and feel that I'm on the path to recovery.

 

But all of a sudden, as I was working out yesterday, I started to think about my ex and the guy she was with. The part that hurt the most about her moving on to someone else was the fact that she did so very quickly. She was sleeping with him two weeks after we broke up. We had been together for 5 years. And I had told her that I didn't really want us to break up. I had forgiven her and felt ok with it when I decided to try and get her back. And I've been fine with it since we've been back together. But now it's popping up and really hurting me.

 

I don't know if I'm just being insecure or if it's the fact that she couldn't wait two weeks to take an action that she knew would destroy me and easily any chance we'd ever have of getting back together. And yet she's making me wait and wait and wait despite her acting and talking like she really loves me and wants to be with me. She says she wants to have sex soon and that it will be really good. But I'm feeling so messed up right now that I don't think I even want to have sex with her. It's just starting to feel wrong.

 

Can any one make anything of this? What does all this say about me? about her? What is happening?

[westernxer]

Time to get away from your ex, wouldn't you say?

[tacoman]

she probably had sex on the rebound. 5 years together, she was probably emotionally numb and made some bad decisions. I think once everyone gets older, no matter who they are with, they are going to have a sexual past with other guys. She probably made a mistake and wasn't of clear mind. And now that she is with you (someone she obviously loves ) after 5 years together, she is back to taking it at a normal pace and is making sure it is right for the both of you.

 

I am going through the exact thing right now. My girlfriend of 5 years dumped me and i found her 2 weeks later making out with some guy on the floor. I have been on no contact for the past 3 weeks since it happend. Knowing we will talk in the near future, because neither of us are ready emorionally to discuss anything that is going on.

 

out of curiosity, why did she break up with you and how long after she hooked up with this guy did you hear from her? I am trying to piece together everything in my head as well.

[Universe]

I was with her five years. We broke up mid-september. We never really broke contact though it was sporatic. I kept our meetings pleasant but I remained strong and confident. She lost the other guy mid march and then her and I were hooking up early april. That's the timeline.

 

westernxer, thanks for your input. I totally understand what you mean. And I'm totally considering what you said. But those 5 years weren't an accident. I'm trying really hard to find a good reason to drop this girl. But when it all boils down, I simply can't find another girl who even comes close. And believe me I've looked!

 

tacoman,

out of curiosity, why did she break up with you and how long after she hooked up with this guy did you hear from her? I am trying to piece together everything in my head as well.

I never really lost touch with her. She kept in contact with me. We never went more than a couple weeks without hanging out. I never showed her weakness or begger her to come back (which in hindsight, I sorta wished I had). I think if I had showed her how freaked out I really was that maybe she would not have slept with the other guy and given me another chance. The problem with that is, though, that I think it really took her sleeping with someone else to whip me in to shape. I was so screwed up psychologically and didn't really see it.

I'm surprised to hear how similar our cases are.

5 years together, she was probably emotionally numb and made some bad decisions. I think once everyone gets older, no matter who they are with, they are going to have a sexual past with other guys. She probably made a mistake and wasn't of clear mind. And now that she is with you (someone she obviously loves ) after 5 years together, she is back to taking it at a normal pace and is making sure it is right for the both of you.

I think your right. Yet it's still hard for me as I'm going through it. I don't know. She talks to me and write to me like she's really serious about making this work. Yet, so often I feel like maybe she doesn't. ...well, I don't really feel loved and I think the sex thing is a big part of it. I don't know. I just feel weird about all of it.

 

one thing I should mention though - is that the waiting for sex this is actually pretty cool. It's like this build up. I love the idea of creating huge exciting memorable moments. It's just that the problem now is that the hype is too much. Now the wait has been so long that I don't know if I can live up to it.

 

I feel so confused. I feel so wise like I have knowledge to pass on. Yet my own situation is so confusing that I don't feel equipped to really say anything.

 

What's your situation Taco?

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Universe

I'm trying really hard to find a good reason to drop this girl. But when it all boils down, I simply can't find another girl who even comes close. And believe me I've looked!

 

You don't need to find another girl to move on... you just move on, hard as it may be in the initial stages.

 

You even said you didn't feel loved... talk is cheap, man. She's milking you until she finds someone else. Having sex isn't going to help you, either, unless you lose all feelings for her, which I know you won't. You have to cut it off completely.

 

Five years wasn't an accident, but neither is your current predicament.

 

Think about it...

[wow]

She is stringing u along until she meets the next guy. Be in control and kick her ass to the kerb.

[sarah12]

You don't need to find another girl to move on... you just move on, hard as it may be in the initial stages.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. You move on by learning how to be on your own, learning to make yourself happy with or without someone. It's a tough step to take after having a girlfriend for so long, but you can't be happy with someone else (whether it's your gf or someone else) if you aren't happy on your own. If you haven't learned to be alone, a part of you will always wonder if you are involved with the gf because you can't handle being alone.

 

 

You even said you didn't feel loved... talk is cheap, man. She's milking you until she finds someone else. Having sex isn't going to help you, either, unless you lose all feelings for her, which I know you won't. You have to cut it off completely.

 

I agree. What is the reason for holding back sex? It's not like you haven't had sex before. If she was so easily able to have sex with someone else, then why can't she have sex with you if she did it for 5 years? It's almost like she's using sex as a weapon or some kind of power trip against you. I'd cut her loose and move on if I were you. You'll be better off alone than being in an unsatisfying relationship.

[NewMe]

Hey Universe,

 

We chatted some months ago, I was resisting registering and posted under "ex" for awhile... glad to see you are around and updating.

 

And yet she's making me wait and wait and wait despite her acting and talking like she really loves me and wants to be with me.

I don't think she's making you wait and wait. Meaning, she has reasons why she's not ready yet, but she's probably not out to make you miserable. So IMO, not rational to get mad/upset/angsty about this.

 

I started to think about my ex and the guy she was with. The part that hurt the most about her moving on to someone else was the fact that she did so very quickly.

It was a rebound! Not that this necessarily simplifies matters, but we talked about this a lot back in Jan or Feb or whenever --he was never your competition. Also, I have now been in a rebound of my own, and to tell you the truth, it just makes me miss the ex even more. So if you can make the testerone shut up some, her rebound is not the most horrible thing in the world that could have happened.

 

She's so defensive that she isn't receiving any of the love that me or my sister try to give her. And I'm the same way. I've been unable to receive the love my ex tried to give. And she can never give enough because I am so needy.

But after seeking help on this I'm feeling much better about it and feel that I'm on the path to recovery.

Hey I have this problem; it's what killed my relationship. If I don't take care of this, I am going to die a lonely old woman. Can you suggest any recommended reading?

 

All these other posters are so negative. Makes me wonder though (since it's been awhile since I've followed your story) - are YOU having doubts about whether you want this relationship anymore?

[westernxer]

She's his ex, NewMe.

 

And what do you mean by negative (realistic would be the proper term here)? Universe needs to hear the truth from somewhere... that's why we're here.

[NewMe]

Originally posted by westernxer

She's his ex, NewMe.

 

And what do you mean by negative (realistic would be the proper term here)? Universe needs to hear the truth from somewhere... that's why we're here.

 

What's "the truth"? Why is it so clear that he *needs* to move on? While I think LS is a super little site, I am wary of all the presumptions that take place here, eg the ex is a monster, NC as gospel, what's "good for the goose" mentality, etc.

 

If life is about growing (obviously it's about more) I think Universe has been doing a lot of it by being with his "ex."

[westernxer]

Sure doesn't seem like it... all you have to do is read what he's saying.

 

I'm not going to quote any of it because examples are plenty the context.

[NewMe]

Originally posted by westernxer

Sure doesn't seem like it... all you have to do is read what he's saying.

 

I'm not going to quote any of it because examples are plenty the context.

 

Well, I don't know what's best for him, and maybe it is the case he "ought" to let her go. But sometimes I think we (maybe some of us more than others) need to go at our own pace to feel and/or figure out what others might be able to see more clearly. I think Universe is a smart guy, and I trust he is doing exactly what he "needs" to be doing at any given moment.

[westernxer]

You said it... he ought to let her go.

 

It never heals if you keep pickin' at it...

 

Plenty of other girls to choose from once he decides to move on.

[Universe]

Thanks for posting, NewMe. I was hoping to hear from you and some of the other LS vets that have followed my story.

All these other posters are so negative. Makes me wonder though (since it's been awhile since I've followed your story) - are YOU having doubts about whether you want this relationship anymore?

I was a little surprised at how negative everyone on here was at first. But it's really to be expected. And I appreciate it all the same. There are so many people on here that really seem to be doormats for their exes and they just keep going back for more. So I think a lot of people read my posts and their quick to be protective of me as they are with everyone. But it comes at the expense of understanding the real reasons why relationships end up the way they do.

I'm not having doubts about whether I want this relationship anymore. She continues to prove what an amazing person she is. I've never met anyone like her. But my concern is the long term effects of what happened with her rebound. For example, the fact that I freaked out about it this past Friday. Some little subtle thing she says or does or doesn't say or doesn't do can spin me off into this insecure neediness and I get irrational and frustrated. Then the memory of how quickly and whimsically she just decided to throw it (me) all away sneaks in and my anger takes over. I was full on drunk when I started this thread if you couldn't notice by my unusually incoherent grammar errors (i.e. words left out changing the whole meaning). Then I find a way to calm myself and settle my neediness/insecurity and we end up hanging out. It's great. She loves me. I see how great she is and how stupid I am for thinking she doesn't love me. And everything is fine.

Then all of a sudden I have a dream last night where I find out she proactively kissed some loser behind my back and I wake up only to realize that it wasn't a dream, but it really happened. That is - until I REALLY wake up and realize that it really was all a dream. Confusing, eh?

If life is about growing (obviously it's about more) I think Universe has been doing a lot of it by being with his "ex."

This is definitely the case. I certainly learned a lot after breaking up and spending time alone. I learned a ton. And it was absolutely necessary for me to be alone with minimal contact with her for a period. But now that that's over and I've spent a good amount of time with her again I can say this: I've learn a million times more about myself and what's really wrong with me after spending a lot of quality time with my ex than I did while I was alone. The alone time needed to happen and much was learned. But even more has been learned by getting back together. Although hanging with the ex can make it very difficult to focus, it's a good thing as long as you're paying attention. After hanging out with her a while, I caught myself being extremely clingy in the exact same way I was when we were together. I dealt with it, took some time and became stronger for it. Then it happened again, but it was more neediness than clinginess. They're very similar, but not exactly the same.

Plus, spending time with her has really enabled me to not only see her faults in the relationship more clearly, but it's very clear that this whole experiece has made her really understand what it is about HERself that contributed to our downfall.

One advantage that she and I have always had is our communication. We're really good at it. But we allowed symbiosis and codependence to take over and destroy our respective identities. So I was no longer communicating with her nor she with me because we had both ceased to exist.

 

The sex thing truly stemmed from my insecurity. That's why I reached out on here. I needed someone to tell me if her reluctance to have intercourse should be taken as a sign that she really doesn't want me. But it's clear now that that isn't the case. And I'm glad we waited because it's not only allowed her to feel more comfortable, but it's forced me to work through a lot of these neediness issues that might have caused more problems and ruined to the sex. Now I'm even more confident and feel that I'm and even more adequate and sexy lover.

My anxiety over it is gone now and she's made it clear that she wants to have sex.

While I think LS is a super little site, I am wary of all the presumptions that take place here, eg the ex is a monster, NC as gospel, what's "good for the goose" mentality, etc.

This is certainly the case and seems to be increasingly so. But in all fairness, I failed to mention that there is a well documented history if you read my previous posts. I can see how Westerxer and others respond the way they do based on what I have said. The thing to be wary of is how much conviction these posts have. It's always important to keep an open mind and try to be considerate of all parties. Some are better about that than others.

Some exes are monsters. But I think most are not. Some relationships work and some don't. And some should, but don't. I really believed that mine should have worked and I knew that my ex felt the same way. But things just got messed up. I've spoken with all of her friends at one point or another. All of them have said that whether it was before the other guy, during the other guy, or after the other guy; that all she ever talked about was me. They all say she's crazy about me and with the exception of her rebound experience, she's given me every reason to believe them.

 

Like I said, my concern now is whether or not I should get back together with her. My concern is how deeply the negative aspects of all that's happened will affect each of us independently and as a couple in the future. My other concern is how I will really get rid of my insecurities of neediness and jealousy, etc.

 

In response to my description of my neediness, NewMe said:

Hey I have this problem; it's what killed my relationship. If I don't take care of this, I am going to die a lonely old woman. Can you suggest any recommended reading?

The striking thing about neediness is how common it seems to be and just how often it destroys otherwise healthy and beautiful relationships. Originally I was reading a lot of "get-back-together" books, dating books, and sex books. One thing they all have in common is their insistence on relinquishing any actions that reveal neediness. Two such books I recommend you look at in the book store (but don't purchase) are by Robert Greene The 48 Laws of Power and more importantly The Art of Seduction. But these aren't about neediness per se. But they talk about it in a constructive way. Tne one book that really blew my hair back and really got me moving in a positive direction was by Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt called Receiving Love : Transform Your Relationship by Letting Yourself Be Loved. This is my strongest recommendation. It talks about how our relationships with our parents as infants and as we grow up directly affect our relationships in adulthood. To paraphrase: When we are infants, our survival depends entirely on our parents. So anytime we see that there's something about us or something we do that seems to evoke dissaproval from our parents, we instictively hide it. When they disapprove of us, our survival is threatened because we fear they will leave us and if they do we will die. So we build up defenses. Our parents went through the same thing with their parents. So they have lots of defenses and insecurities that they unwhittingly pass on to us through this process. These insecurities can take many forms and you spend the rest of your life trying to defend them. It's simple. You feel insucure, so you respond by building a defense. The problem is that by building these defenses to protect yourself, you are erecting a wall that keeps out the love that people try to express to you. So you are not receiving love. Consequently, your partner is frustrated by the fact that they are pouring all of this love into you and yet you still do not feel loved. But you need to feel love, especially from your partner. So you seek it. You'r partner gives it. But as you do not receive it, you keep trying to get it from them. They give it and love giving it. They love loving you. But it's never enough. Your needs are never met. Eventually they feel drained and so do you.

 

This is a very general and biased paraphrase I must admit. The book does a much better job of explaining it. They're much more scientific and use good examples. But the important thing is that it got me to really look back carefully at my interactions with my parents and think through my insecurities thoroughly. It didn't take much thought to put it together. The types of insecurities I have are exactly the types of insecurities I should have considering my past relationship with my parents. So not only has this helped me to understand myself and my relationship with my ex (she's not really my ex anymore - I just don't know what to call her now), but it's helping to understand and communicate with my parents...and more clearly see specifically why their relationship has been a miserable failure. The exciting thing is that it works. Finding the source of your neediness and other insecurities is the first step and a giant one in curing yourself. It's definitely a process and takes effort. But finding the problem at it's source is the only way to eradicate it. I'm still going through it and probably will be for a long time. These asre very deeply ingrained problems. But I"m already feeling the positive effects of my work. I'm feeling loved by my ex and I believe she is feeling loved be me. It's definitely a two-front battle: Learning to love and learning to be love. You can't have one without the other...not if you want the relationship to last.

 

Another thing that admittedly was very helpful, was simply typing "neediness relationship" in google.com and it came back with a bunch of helpful sites. Like I said: Youd be surprise just how prevalent this problem is. There are a lot of different solutions out there that are very helpful.

 

Two other books I recommend that also talk about neediness among other things are Tantra: The Art of Conscious Loving and The Joy of Sex which is obviously more about sex.

 

Thank you all for your responses. NewMe, you know that I can't thank you enough for how helpful you've been in my overall recovery and in my reconciliation with my ex. I'm glad to see you on here again.

 

Peace.

[Mattaius]

Wow, i seem to have the same destructive insecurites as you my man

 

I always used to be really needy and insecure and it seems it has destroyed my last relationship, we were only together for ten months though. But even though she would always tell me she loved me, i would find things in her actions that told me she didnt and i would let it upset me rather than believing the words which she was saying. Such as she was always the one to break a kiss or when i asked her if she wanted to see me she would say, i dont know. In the end me getting upset about this made her end things between us.

 

I definately agree with you that getting dumped and having a little bit of space lets you see things more objectively, I can clearly see how much i messed things up between us and i know how to be different and better in the future. She has actually said to me she would like us to be together again in the future, but i dont know when that is. We are still very close and talk everyday and see each other occasionally. So my question to you if you dont mind me asking is how you managed to persuade your ex to take you back? Also her friends seem very negative of me, like they are trying to protect her from me hurting her, i dont think they like me talking to her even though she does which is annoying.

 

Anyway enough about my problem, the best way if you want her to sleep with you, is to withdraw you sexual services. Don't tell her your doing it, and don't make it obvious, but just dont show her you are horny and certainly dont initiate anything more than kissing with her. It make take a little while, but you'll find she will start missing you doing all the things you normally do to her, and when she starts missing it she will start craving it and desiring it, then she will sleep with you in order to get some satisfaction. This may seem like tricking her, but it just seems like she needs the right incentives, as you are the one who wants it and she can decide if she lets you sleep with her then she has the power. If you take the power away she will crumble, and then once the two of you have had sex again then she won't be able to excuse herself out of it so easily but if she does then stop pleasuring her again. It should work although it does seem like tricking her.

[smile]

Universe

 

I have read this over and over almost everyday I visit this site and never really felt I had any right to make any grand judgements or comments about your getting out of this relationship. I have been stuck in a similar situation, except the sex was the most prevalent part of our relationship. Everything was the same but there was no commitment, no desire to work on things or even chance it may work in the future, the communication about the future you have with her was not there with me and my ex.. but we had a lot of sex.

 

Latley the sex has been nil. And that made me feel like things were over... I became paranoid and scared... who knows what it means but I didnt have the honesty, the openness you two seem to have.

 

I dont know what you should do, I wish I did. Sometimes I wish there wasnt any sex because then I would know the relationship was about our friendship, but when the sex is gone I worry about what that means. Whether you have it or not sex can be used as a powerplay by the one who broke up with you. Maybe a way to control things when they get out of hand.

 

I have no idea what thats about but thats what I seem to see here.. in both of our situations. Our exes care about us and may even love us but for some stupid reason they are afraid of letting go of power. Power they relinquish when they let go... when they come back.. or when they merely feel a desire to. So the sex... thats the way to keep a wall there.

 

We both deserve the whole thing. You wait as long as you need to, you hang around as long as you feel ok with whats going on. But when you are ready you will realize what you are willing to deal with. I think you deserve more but you feel she deserves you right now.. she may be mixed up and your being around may make her see how much she loves you/ needs you. But I have this sinking feeling that only happens in movies.

 

It seems in real life the person only realizes the pain and error of his/her ways when they are no longer getting any reward for their actions. Right now she is wishy washy and you are there. She is holding back and you give more. Its painful for you.. it has to be, thats why you come here to seek comfort, and like minded people who have been in your shoes.

 

Its like when I come here I am not sure if I want someone to tell me to get it together and get out or I want someone to point out that he loves me and I should stay. I am here because I dont know what to do... or rather dont want to hurt him.

 

Its been enough time... someone can break up with you but not let go. Who knows why. I know we both wish its because they truly love us and want us. But how can they figure that out when they are acting selfish and not caring about our feelings and still getting all of our love and attention? Sometimes people need to feel the ramifications of their actions. He broke up with me but I never went anywhere. So what was the breakup about?

 

Why did she leave you, if she doesnt want you to go away? I know right now that question makes you stay, it made me stay for a long time. But ask it again this way... if she didn't want you to go away, why did she leave? One day the question won't be enough...

 

I hope everything works out and she does decide she is willing to give all the way. I do want to believe in this and love and everything. But maybe sometimes a little space and consequences are good for the soul. Good luck man, I know how you feel. *hugs*

[ConfusedInOC]

Universe, I am in a similar situation.

 

I was clingy and needy with the Ex. Even though our sex life was "incredible" she ultimately felt unfulfilled due to me being clingy and soft. She's left me for another man and I think the damage I caused in her mind is irreversable.

 

However, I -- much like you -- have had a lot of time to reflect on what I did wrong. But also, I needed to find out why I was so clingy and needy and it has to do with simple insecurities. I wasn't getting enough feedback from my Ex. She wasn't loving me as fast as I wanted her to and when she didn't, I pressed her harder.

 

I am by nature an affectionate guy. Some women love that, some do not. My ex only wanted affection in the privacy of the bedroom. She even hated PDA. She saw it as being clingy, a weakness. And in her mind, if you have a weakness, it will just highlight the other deficiencies you have and eventually, you get the boot.

 

So yes, I have shouldered a lot of the blame, but I also know I picked a mate that wasn't exactly equally yoked with me. As sad as that is, I love her more than anything on earth, I had to live with the fact that I screwed up twice. 1st for picking the wrong mate, 2nd for not seeing the warning signs.

 

My question to you, now that you have recognized some of your faults are you 100% sure you picked the right mate?

[Universe]

We went down to the Florida Keys this weekend and had a great time. We cuddled a lot and eventually had sex twice. We had a good talk about things and it's clear that she is committed to trying to make it work between us. But it's also clear that we're not home free yet. I realize that in love there's no such thing as "home free." What I mean is: There's still a lot of foundation work to be done.

I'd like to reply to a your posts.

 

 

So my question to you if you dont mind me asking is how you managed to persuade your ex to take you back?

Mattaius, I wouldn't really say I persuaded her to take me back per se. If you want the long version, you can read some of my previous threads. The most important thing is to be honest, but be careful to think before you speak because it's not necessary to disclose every single thought and feeling as you're having them. But don't lie about anything. Don't pretend anything. And before you can be honest with her, you have to be honest with yourself. And that can be very hard. Especially because all the information you take in about your relationship with her is filtered through your biased personal feelings. You have to try try try to look at things objectively. I think it's really easy to feel like the victim and I think most people do. Most people, dumpers and dumpees, focus so much on how much they are the victim that they don't see the obvious fact that they are every bit as guilty if not more so than their ex. So people secretly or unconsciously love being emotionally abused by their SO or ex because it justifies their own self-pity. I am definitely guilty of this as I believe most people on LS are. But you just have to relax, breate, and stand up with a clear mind and say, "I'm tired of playing the part of the victim." It's so easy to get wrapped up in your own self-pity and depression that you neglect the fact that you have probably done things that hurt your SO or ex just as bad if not worse than they hurt you.

 

How did I get my ex back? By learning how to effectively show my love while effectively receiving her love. Don't confuse your adoration and admiration for her with love. It's not the same. You can't possibly show her your love until you learn to put yourself in her shoes and try to understand what it is that she really needs.

So I hung out with her once or twice a week for a few weeks. I didn't waste time talking on the phone. I think talking on the phone is useless and even destructive unless you are in a long distance relationship or are just making plans to meet up later. There's very little you can accomplish over the phone. Same with email. Find fun things to do with her and invite her to do them with you. Be pleasant and respectful of her time and space. Be decisive and assertive, but considerate. Don't dwell on the past unless you're having a focussed conversation specifically about the past. And don't have those coversations unless there's something that you feel is really important and you cannot continue without it being discussed. But it's best to think about and deal with your issues with the past on your own. The past was wrong. Otherwise it would have worked. You're looking to the future. So only think about the past in ways that it can be instructive for the future. Otherwise, get over it.

If things go well after 4-8 weeks, then try to create a romantic opportunity and go for the kill, or just come right out and tell her you want her back.

 

A problem that my ex has had with me is that I did not come out and say exactly what I wanted enough. This was one of the hang ups with the sex thing. I would try to romance her into sex. But she really wanted to hear me tell her what I wanted. She loved me and wanted to please me. But she couldn't get excited about doing so because she didn't know what I wanted. My telling her what I wanted actually turns her on when she is not otherwise. I always felt rejected because she wouldn't really elevate her passion for me on her own. She was affectionate, but it only went so far. Now I know that it only went so far because she didn't know where to take it and was turned off by the fact that it didn't seem like I knew either. My sexuality didn't make sense to her.

 

I could talk forever about how I got her back. I have her back. But what we have is altogether new and different. So we're not really "back" per se. We're forward. We're both nervous about how we're progressing. That's why we're not labeling it. Neither of us want to be defined socially by such labels. I don't ever want us to feel trapped again. I want this relationship to continue to feel like a growing living thing. I want our loving each other to be a continuous process that changes as we change independently.

 

gosh this post is already so long..

 

Smile,

Why did she leave you, if she doesnt want you to go away? I know right now that question makes you stay, it made me stay for a long time. But ask it again this way... if she didn't want you to go away, why did she leave? One day the question won't be enough...

It just isn't as simple as her leaving or me staying. The relationship had just gotten to a point where we were both drowning. It was destroying both of us. Maybe counseling would have helped. In hindsight I wonder if we should have tried it. At the time, neither of us even thought of it. My point is that we both really needed out. She did want me to leave. I wanted her to leave. But neither of us wanted it to be over. But for her, leaving meant it was over. Things got worse, much worse before they get better. But when the worst was over, she was so grateful that I was still there. Am I chump for waiting for her? I felt like one at times. But the fact of the matter is that she loves me now. She wants me now. I'm better for having gone through it. I'm better for myself and I'm better for her. And I still love her. I love her more than I ever have. We're both happy. We're taking it slow.

Latley the sex has been nil. And that made me feel like things were over... I became paranoid and scared... who knows what it means but I didnt have the honesty, the openness you two seem to have.

Like I said: the hard part is being honest with yourself first. You have to know what it is that you want and what that means for your SO. How will what you want affect them? Is it fair?

Power they relinquish when they let go...

I think it's easy to get caught up in the idea of this whole power struggle thing. I certainly have. But you have to get over it. Love is not a competition. It's not you against him, but you with him. You have nothing to fear. If he loves you, he will love all of you. If not, then it's senseless to hide a part of yourself from him. So there's no room for power. You are you and he is him. No changing that. So if there is love between you, it will be there as long as you are honest with each other and with yourselves. You can't get caught up in the "He has the power to hurt me" game. True, her can hurt you. And you can certainly hurt him whether he realizes it or not. But love isn't based on who has the power to hurt who. Love is about loving, not hurting. So focus on the love part, not the hurt part.

 

 

ConfusedInOC

She's left me for another man and I think the damage I caused in her mind is irreversable.

God knows I felt this way for a long time. It's really scary to think you can't undo the damage you've done. And guess what? You can't. So stop worrying about it. It's ok. When a hurricane blows your house down, you don't sit around and wonder if you can undo it. You pick up a hammer and start building a new house!

My question to you, now that you have recognized some of your faults are you 100% sure you picked the right mate?

Yes. 100% Yes. I've asked myself this question a million times. I didn't pick the wrong mate. Prior to breaking up, I was so sure I'd picked the right mate that I didn't think I needed to do any more. I thought, "Everything is perfect. She's the one for me and she's crazy about me. What else is there to think about?" I was naive. I was ignorant of the fact that people grow. I was ignorant of the fact that love is an action. I was ignorant of the fact that even if a relationship is working, it still needs work.

 

My ex wrote some song lyrics for me to put music to a few months before we broke up. I never could find the right music for it and I never fully grasped the implications of them until recently. But the title says it all. And I'll end my post with it...

 

 

 

Love is a station, not a destination.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by Universe

ConfusedInOCGod knows I felt this way for a long time. It's really scary to think you can't undo the damage you've done. And guess what? You can't. So stop worrying about it. It's ok. When a hurricane blows your house down, you don't sit around and wonder if you can undo it. You pick up a hammer and start building a new house!

 

Ok, I know what you mean. Build a new you. That's what I am doing.

 

The problem is, how do you show her the new you when she's dating someone else?! It'll take me months to get where I want to go and I'm concerned that she'll be so far into this new guy that no matter how nice my new house is, she won't move in. Ya'know?

 

I know the focus needs to be on ME and rebuilding myself.

[Mattaius]

bling thats a rinsing philosopy, going forward together not getting back together. It seems i am actually doing basically what you suggested there man. Its been six weeks since d-day, today actually and we have been talking pretty well recently, it had been just like old times except without the kissing hugging and so i'm inclined to think positively. I'm off to see her tomorrow and i have decided that rather than spending a day infront of the tv (she cant leave the house because she's ill) that ill get her involved in cooking a nice lunch together where we can flirt and bond whilst we do that. Then at some point i may juat kiss her or come out and say lets go forward together and start dating again.

 

I think you are very right not to call it anything yet man, i wanna take things slow with her, it seems that she is going slow slowly she's stopped right now, so i need to get her moving again. But you're right i wouldnt want to call it anything there is no need to either just let what happens happen and only when you fully realise its there does it need to be named.

 

Well done for getting your end away man, congratualtions

[smile]

You know , you're right. I had been feeling this need to get out and make him feel responsible for what he did, but its over. He has felt it, he has been miserable and why would he want me around if all I did was remind him of that pain. The past is the past.

 

We were drowning too. You do just get so caught up in misery and pain that you just start to destroy eachother. And we needed to get away from eachother. We needed to breathe because it did feel like suffocating.

 

Last night we hung out for the first time in a while. i wasnt angry or defensive, we had fun. We went to a movie and just had a good time. He kept saying things about how it was just like old times and stuff. He kissed me and he initiates everything.... and its ok.

 

You're right it isnt about power.... at least not power OVER eachother. Thats not something that should even exist in a relationship. I was at this point where I was so scaredof him staying or leaving, I was really mixed up.

 

Now I see that I do love him and will act lovingly towards him and whatever comes out of that is what it is. He did listen and respond to my fears and what I had to say. You were right.

 

And I had to get out of my funk to see it... thanks universe... and congrats to you. I am glad that its working out for you. You seem very happy and centered.

[NewMe]

hey Universe,

 

I'm so happy for you! You sound really really good, really solid.

 

And to think that a few months ago you were in need of some bitch slapping.

 

Yes. 100% Yes. I've asked myself this question a million times. I didn't pick the wrong mate. Prior to breaking up, I was so sure I'd picked the right mate that I didn't think I needed to do any more. I thought, "Everything is perfect. She's the one for me and she's crazy about me. What else is there to think about?" I was naive. I was ignorant of the fact that people grow. I was ignorant of the fact that love is an action. I was ignorant of the fact that even if a relationship is working, it still needs work.

 

Like I said: the hard part is being honest with yourself first. You have to know what it is that you want and what that means for your SO. How will what you want affect them? Is it fair?

 

This is the wisdom I'm taking from your last post as I navigate the ex relationship. Even though there were once similarities between our stories, I took the other road... I was strictly NC since breakup (over 6 months), but I just got a message (birthday card w/ note referencing relationship), and have to decide what to do with it/that/him...

 

I may need help soon! I hope you still check in from time to time.

[Universe]

ConfusedinOC said,

but I also know I picked a mate that wasn't exactly equally yoked with me. As sad as that is, I love her more than anything on earth, I had to live with the fact that I screwed up twice. 1st for picking the wrong mate, 2nd for not seeing the warning signs.

and then said,

how do you show her the new you when she's dating someone else?! It'll take me months to get where I want to go and I'm concerned that she'll be so far into this new guy that no matter how nice my new house is, she won't move in.

If you're so sure you picked the wrong mate, then you probably need to focus on forgetting her rather than showing her your "new house."

12. Be careful to defend your "line of respect." (This was my major boo boo. I let her cross it too many times.)

I pulled this from your thread. So after all that, I'll assume you've thought a lot about your ex and who she really is deep down and then decided that she is, after all, the right mate. Chances are you're still grappling over that issue. And regardless of what you've decided about that, your decision would be more informed if you actually spent some quality time with her.

So she's dating someone else. I don't know the time table of your history. But if she went to him not long after breaking up with you, then it's probably a rebound. Rebounds usually last 3 months. With my ex is was close to 5 months. It all depends. People move at different paces in relationships. But the fact of the matter is she's with him now. Maybe she won't be with him later. She was with you for a while so you know that she has some attraction to you (which may be buried or forgotten at the moment, but it's there). So you have a chance. Don't beat yourself up worrying that you don't unless she tells you explicitly that there's no chance. If she tells you this, you should take her seriously (and give it a couple months of really trying to give it up before you consider trying again). Anyways - she's with him and you should respect that and respect him. No good will come from speaking negatively of him or their situation. Focus on being friends with her. Friendship is vital to a relationship and to love. Most of your love for her can be communicated through friendship. If you communicate it effectively, she will feel it. But it has to be your love for her that you're communicating and not your love for your own need for her. It's easy to get these confused. Call her up, be pleasant, and invite her to do something with you. Have a plan and a backup plan prepared before you call. If she turns you down, accept it and remain pleasant and calm. Don't get down on yourself. Don't put too much emphasis on the call. You're just asking to hang out just as you would with any other friend. Don't call it a date or even think of it as one. You're just gonna be hanging out and having a good time. The big thing is to welcome her as she is right now. Make no demands and have no expectations. Relax, be yourself, and put your energy into making her feel comfortable and happy. Use this opportunity to get to know her again and understand things about her that you missed before. She's probably learned a lot and grown as you have since the break up. Maybe she sees now what she did wrong and how she could have been better. If she declines to hang out with you, give it a week or two and try again. If she keeps declining, take the hint and give it a month or two before trying again. But she'll probably want to hang out with you. So don't worry about it. Just be cool and comfortablt with yourself.

After hanging out a few times, the discomfort will dissolve. Then it's just a matter of figuring out where she's at and if it's really a good time for you to get back together. But you have to let her know at some point that you do in fact want to get back together. But it's important not to pressure her in any way. Just let her know how you feel and that you respect her for who she is and all of the decisions she's made. The hard part about telling her that is that is has to be true. It's hard to get your head around the fact that she banging some other dude. But if you really focus on what's important, then maybe you can get past that. But it all depends on your situation and how things really went down. In my case, I studied my ex and her decisions very carefully and decided that I still respected her and loved her for who she was even while she was with the other dude. But if things were slightly different, I may not have. Only you can make that call. There's no univeral right or wrong answer there. But the answer has to be yes before you move forward. That is unless she did something that she admits was wrong and has apologized. Then you can choose whether or not you forgive her. It's up to you.

 

Mattaius said,

Then at some point i may juat kiss her or come out and say lets go forward together and start dating again.

and

it seems that she is going slow slowly she's stopped right now, so i need to get her moving again.

Be careful not to push her. You may feel ready to kiss her and get things moving, but maybe she isn't. You can try. But don't be surprised if she's not ready. Don't be selfish about it.

Its been six weeks since d-day, today actually and we have been talking pretty well recently, it had been just like old times except without the kissing hugging and so i'm inclined to think positively.

This doesn't mean she's stopped. By "getting things moving" I assume you mean in a romantic context. I should warn you that just because the two of you aren't getting romantic doesn't mean that things aren't moving forward. 6 weeks isn't a terribly long time to be broken up. You may have more issues to work out before jumping right back in. When the romance starts, things can very easily and very quickly get confusing and old patterns resurface. It's ok if they do, but just be aware of them and deal with them appropriately.

By now you've already tried your day-off lunch effort. So I hope it went well.

 

Smile siad,

Everything was the same but there was no commitment, no desire to work on things or even chance it may work in the future, the communication about the future you have with her was not there with me and my ex.. but we had a lot of sex.

I think the most important thing for you is to work on communication. It's important to have focussed discussions on the relationship. But one thing to keep in mind is that you should only talk about the relationship when you're having a focussed discussion about it. Philosiphizing openly about it at your whim can lead to confusion and regret. You need to sit down with him and talk about what kind of relationship you would like to see yourself in. And ask him to do the same. Discuss each of your needs and whether or not they are fair and reasonable. Be honest and direct. He will respect you for it and he will think about what you say. When you talk again later on, maybe your ideas will have changed and maybe so will his. Nothing is etched in stone and never should be. The fact of the matter is, you and he have something together that you share. And the only thing that is required is that you agree on what that is. And the only way to do that is to talk about it openly.

To give an example, my ex and I are allowed to see other people but we're not allowed to sleep with or get romantic with other people. We did not ask this of each other, we volunteered it. We're both completely free to do whatever we want. But our sexual relationship is exclusive. Neither of us wants to see other people at all. But it's the attitude of ownership that we're avoiding. So there's no requirements. If we're spending time together, it's because we want to, not because we feel like we're supposed to. We've agreed on this dynamic. But we only got there through being open and honest with each other and truly understanding each other. And part of that is understanding that either of us may grow and change at any moment and the dynamic will have to grow and change with us.

 

NewMe said,

but I just got a message (birthday card w/ note referencing relationship), and have to decide what to do with it/that/him...

 

I may need help soon! I hope you still check in from time to time.

First of all, Happy Birthday. Second, all the "get back together" books say that a good way to get back in touch with an ex is to send a Birthday or other holiday card. It's a very subtle non-threatening approach. So maybe he's putting a line out. Why don't you give it a nibble and see if he jerks?

You know I'll be here for you. Feel free to PM me if I miss your threads. I'd love to hear how it goes.

[tricky]

Universe, this has to be the best post I have come across on LS. You are my mentor.

 

I am in a situation where we've just started hanging out with my ex, and although it is quite hard to kill the neediness monster in myself, I am going to prevail. She is reaching out to me, slowly and I stopped playing the victim and owned up to the issues that I and only I have created to push her away in the first place. I let her work on her own issues hereself. We've been together for 6 years and I know it was no accident. I am now building the foundation of the house and I have a long way to go, but I am relly determined. I realise that I have all the time in the world, and I will succeed. In the meantime I am learning more about myself and about her that I have never given myself the opportunity to learn.

 

Thanks again for your posts and keep us updated.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by tricky

Universe, this has to be the best post I have come across on LS. You are my mentor.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I printed his post and I am going to study it and make sure I have learned it inside and out. It will apply not just to the ex but anyone else I meet in the future.

 

A brilliant, brilliant post that everyone should read.