Nothing new

[Noirek]

I thought I'd update when something big and new happened but nothing has. MM and I are no longer in contact. Saw him this last weekend and didn't even make eye contact or want too. Husband and I are doing well enough. As well as you can when one of us still feels like she is treading water to barely keep her head above water.

 

People go on and on here all the time about how easy it is for a WS to forgive themselves and "get over it" and there words always imply how worthless they feel they are. I realized being here was not helping my morale. I felt brutalized for expressing my own opinion. And I wa blindsided by one of the people doing it because I had felt there support before and they had helped me feel I could be better. It really just caused me to shrink inside and the voice of self loathing to get loud again. So I took a break. I wanted to get away from the toxicity of affairs and you really can't here.

 

But i came back because my counsellor thing was a flop. I wasn't interested in hearing how I cheated because of my husband's actions. Living in small town nowhere has its drawbacks.

 

I don't know where this post is going. Or why my rambling. I don't even know why I bothered coming back. Very few people are interested in a cheater's opinion. The top of this forum says for both ws and bs but it really doesn't feel like that.

[Red123]

I thought I'd update when something big and new happened but nothing has. MM and I are no longer in contact. Saw him this last weekend and didn't even make eye contact or want too. Husband and I are doing well enough. As well as you can when one of us still feels like she is treading water to barely keep her head above water.

 

People go on and on here all the time about how easy it is for a WS to forgive themselves and "get over it" and there words always imply how worthless they feel they are. I realized being here was not helping my morale. I felt brutalized for expressing my own opinion. And I wa blindsided by one of the people doing it because I had felt there support before and they had helped me feel I could be better. It really just caused me to shrink inside and the voice of self loathing to get loud again. So I took a break. I wanted to get away from the toxicity of affairs and you really can't here. As a BS I too have received criticism for my choices but my choices have worked for me.

 

But i came back because my counsellor thing was a flop. I wasn't interested in hearing how I cheated because of my husband's actions. Living in small town nowhere has its drawbacks.

 

I don't know where this post is going. Or why my rambling. I don't even know why I bothered coming back. Very few people are interested in a cheater's opinion. The top of this forum says for both ws and bs but it really doesn't feel like that.

 

I agree it is hard to get away from affairs on this board because that is what this forum discusses. I too take breaks from here when I feel submerged in it. I think there are a lot of people who believe that once someone cheats they are forever that person and will always cheat again. I disagree completely. I truly believe people can change, if they want it. I'm sorry you have received so much flack, sometimes people think tough love is the only way. I have a rule when posting here, I take only what's relevant to me and recognize that everyone posts from their own experiences so their views on this topic vary.

[Clay]

I think its hard to come open yourself up in the first place. Especially knowing your the one in the wrong. No one likes being told they are wrong. Its easy to get entrenched into these ways of thinking when you really don't have a good base of healthy people to pull from. If your away form the MM that is a good start. Not all counselors are good. I have had all four of my kids in counseling for damn near 18 years. Some were good others were a complete joke. Take time out to see if there is others you can talk to. Don't give up on your health and your emotional health as well. It takes time to heal form these things.

 

Keep moving forward.

 

C

[Rainbowlove]

I thought I'd update when something big and new happened but nothing has. MM and I are no longer in contact. Saw him this last weekend and didn't even make eye contact or want too. Husband and I are doing well enough. As well as you can when one of us still feels like she is treading water to barely keep her head above water.

 

People go on and on here all the time about how easy it is for a WS to forgive themselves and "get over it" and there words always imply how worthless they feel they are. I realized being here was not helping my morale. I felt brutalized for expressing my own opinion. And I wa blindsided by one of the people doing it because I had felt there support before and they had helped me feel I could be better. It really just caused me to shrink inside and the voice of self loathing to get loud again. So I took a break. I wanted to get away from the toxicity of affairs and you really can't here.

 

But i came back because my counsellor thing was a flop. I wasn't interested in hearing how I cheated because of my husband's actions. Living in small town nowhere has its drawbacks.

 

I don't know where this post is going. Or why my rambling. I don't even know why I bothered coming back. Very few people are interested in a cheater's opinion. The top of this forum says for both ws and bs but it really doesn't feel like that.

 

Hi Noirek,

 

I'm a former WS. Fortunately, I have found the power of self-forgiveness. I no longer have moments when I look at my spouse and want to die because of what I did to her/us. It's been just about 2 years since I ended my affair and returned home.

 

On a very rare occasion, when I'm complaining about something in our relationship, I hear the back of my mind say...who are you to even speak about being dissatisfied??

 

Then the same little voice says, you are now on equal footing in this relationship regardless of my affair. The affair is in the past. My wife and I both agreed to stay in our marriage and work through it. I'm allowed to express my gripes, as is she.

 

It was hard to feel worthy again. But I am there, regardless of what anyone on LS says. I don't feel the need to prove myself to anyone here, or anyone anywhere.

 

There's a certain amount of inner strength that comes from finding the ability to forgive yourself for infidelity. You have to be able to love the ugly part of ourselves or the part deemed wicked and unlovable. You have to be able to look beyond the labels people want to slap on you.

 

I have also discovered I have no interest in judging other's lives. I've somehow learned to love unconditionally in this - myself and others.

 

No one here can take the growth away from me and I fully believe it would not have happened if I didn't meet my affair partner. I would never go down that road again, but I wouldn't undo it either. I've learned too much through the healing process to want to change anything.

 

The reality is we can't change the affair anyway, so why try? What's done is done. But we can vow to do better and be better to ourselves and our spouses.

 

I wish you well.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Rainbowlove

[Noirek]

I agree it is hard to get away from affairs on this board because that is what this forum discusses. I too take breaks from here when I feel submerged in it. I think there are a lot of people who believe that once someone cheats they are forever that person and will always cheat again. I disagree completely. I truly believe people can change, if they want it. I'm sorry you have received so much flack, sometimes people think tough love is the only way. I have a rule when posting here, I take only what's relevant to me and recognize that everyone posts from their own experiences so their views on this topic vary.

 

Honestly, it is less my threads and more other people being attacked or me being attacked on other threads for daring to share my opinion. When I read people being kicked and kicked it gets me down. I have to remind myself this isn't the real world. The only people who annoy me on my threads are the ones who twist my words, add things to my story or ask the same question a billion times, lol.

[Noirek]

I think its hard to come open yourself up in the first place. Especially knowing your the one in the wrong. No one likes being told they are wrong. Its easy to get entrenched into these ways of thinking when you really don't have a good base of healthy people to pull from. If your away form the MM that is a good start. Not all counselors are good. I have had all four of my kids in counseling for damn near 18 years. Some were good others were a complete joke. Take time out to see if there is others you can talk to. Don't give up on your health and your emotional health as well. It takes time to heal form these things.

 

Keep moving forward.

 

C

 

Well, i knew I was wrong as far as cheating and then breaking NC. But my opinions are not necessarily right or wrong, they are merely my opinions.

 

Counselling for now is a no go. I did get a recommendation for a better psychologist than my last (maybe). I have very limited resources where I live. Not an excuse just a reality of remote living.

[ladydesigner]

I think the fact that you post and respond to others in ways of helping, whether that be a BS, OW/OM, or WS, is something to be commended.

 

I too started as a BS, became a WS, then a BS again. The information I have learned on this site and from others here have helped me in so many ways. Like Rainbowlove said I probably wouldn't change anything because I wouldn't know what I know now and wouldn't have the boundaries I have today.

 

There is no perfect relationship or marriage out there without imperfections or issues. Thank god for LS!

[turnera]

Noirek, the point is, in order to improve, to find happiness, to wake up smiling at life, you have to start at the basics. Humility, honesty, willingness to admit fault, and openness to try new ways of doing things. That's how you start building a better life. I'm no better, when people criticize me, I run. But then I think on it and try to admit they may be right, and I look for the real truth. Which is usually somewhere in the middle.

[harrybrown]

At least you are keeping up on NC.

 

That is a good start.

 

Are you and your H making any good new memories?

 

Some counselors do not help, but others can.

 

One that could help could be affair recovery. You can find them online.

 

But find one together. Hoping for better days for you and your H.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Noirek...

 

I have followed your story here for a long time...and I hope you have never felt that i am not in your corner cheering you on.

 

I feel like because i too am a FWW...that I have a lot of helpful information to share...I feel that because i made so many mistakes along the way...if i can help one person my being here is worth it.

 

Unfortunately...i cant make others listen...and i cant fix it for everyone else.

 

Recovery from infidelity is difficult at best....and sometimes we need to open our eyes and ears to those who have traveled this hard road before us.

 

I promise...if you do the right things...you will learn self forgiveness. I promise that you will stop treading water and begin to float....floating takes a tremendous amount of trust...trust in yourself. But you have to become buoyant....which means you have to rid yourself of heaviness.

 

Healing comes for yourself as you heal your spouse...Once i discovered i needed to heal John's pain....I found my pain easing as well...because i knew with healing comes forgiveness....his forgiveness...and my own.

 

Don't misunderstand me....this is not about you...

 

You know we hear all the time especially at Christmas it is better to give than to receive? and if we have lived life at all...we know it is true. Nothing makes us happier than giving a gift to a loved one and seeing the joy on their face.

 

Helping our spouse to heal from the injustice we have caused...is like giving them a gift....and in the process...we receive a gift as well.

 

Don't give up....baby steps.....everyday. You can do this....you are a strong woman....and the more you give to your spouse the more he will give to you.

 

The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

[m.snow]

maybe your bh has some issue's, maybe minor but still warrants a look up hopefully you can resolve, you've made it thus far. its always great to hear about a remorseful spouse and good R.

 

i can only wish for a happy ever after.

[NewLeaf512]

Noirek...

 

I have followed your story here for a long time...and I hope you have never felt that i am not in your corner cheering you on.

 

I feel like because i too am a FWW...that I have a lot of helpful information to share...I feel that because i made so many mistakes along the way...if i can help one person my being here is worth it.

 

Unfortunately...i cant make others listen...and i cant fix it for everyone else.

 

Recovery from infidelity is difficult at best....and sometimes we need to open our eyes and ears to those who have traveled this hard road before us.

 

I promise...if you do the right things...you will learn self forgiveness. I promise that you will stop treading water and begin to float....floating takes a tremendous amount of trust...trust in yourself. But you have to become buoyant....which means you have to rid yourself of heaviness.

 

Healing comes for yourself as you heal your spouse...Once i discovered i needed to heal John's pain....I found my pain easing as well...because i knew with healing comes forgiveness....his forgiveness...and my own.

 

Don't misunderstand me....this is not about you...

 

You know we hear all the time especially at Christmas it is better to give than to receive? and if we have lived life at all...we know it is true. Nothing makes us happier than giving a gift to a loved one and seeing the joy on their face.

 

Helping our spouse to heal from the injustice we have caused...is like giving them a gift....and in the process...we receive a gift as well.

 

Don't give up....baby steps.....everyday. You can do this....you are a strong woman....and the more you give to your spouse the more he will give to you.

 

The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

 

 

Firstly let me apologise, I don't know your whole story, but, I'd like to ask for some clarity around this post.

 

 

I'd like to understand the time frame from when you and your S reconciled to today (weeks? months? years)The way the post reads to me is contradictory.

 

 

obviously fault was admitted and apologies given and amends began to be made (or maybe still are)

 

 

then you talk about self-forgiveness which is vital to this I believe, helping your spouse heal, also in agreement,

 

 

it's the last bit that has me bewildered.

 

 

You found self forgiveness. You showed remorse and made amends. You don't mention your H forgiving you as well to get past it and get on with the M

 

 

It sounds like in order to keep your H happy and reassured you have to keep being remorseful and reassuring over and over. (if this is over a long period of time and not in the initial part) it sounds like your H doesn't forgive you and doesn't trust you and that you are certainly not on equal footing.

 

 

For me having to be subserviently being remorseful and reassuring about something that happened 5 years ago wouldn't seem to be a good place for either H or W.

 

 

(that's why I asked about the timings)

[Mrs. John Adams]

Firstly let me apologise, I don't know your whole story, but, I'd like to ask for some clarity around this post.

 

 

I'd like to understand the time frame from when you and your S reconciled to today (weeks? months? years)The way the post reads to me is contradictory.

My affair was 32 years ago...I confessed 2 weeks after....and we have never separated.

 

obviously fault was admitted and apologies given and amends began to be made (or maybe still are)

Reconciliation is a work in progress...fault has to be admitted....remorse given

 

 

then you talk about self-forgiveness which is vital to this I believe, helping your spouse heal, also in agreement,

Self forgiveness is also a progress....it comes AFTER you help your spouse to heal and you enable them to forgive you

 

 

it's the last bit that has me bewildered.

 

 

You found self forgiveness. You showed remorse and made amends. You don't mention your H forgiving you as well to get past it and get on with the M

My husband has forgiven me....and this forgiveness came AFTER I gave him complete transparency,and remorse and helped him to heal.

 

 

It sounds like in order to keep your H happy and reassured you have to keep being remorseful and reassuring over and over. (if this is over a long period of time and not in the initial part) it sounds like your H doesn't forgive you and doesn't trust you and that you are certainly not on equal footing.

As I said ...reconciliation is a progress....and it continues forever....Remorse for infidelity does not stop...you dont simply wake up one day and say...ok that part is over....it takes time to rebuild a broken relationship....it takes a lifetime.

 

 

For me having to be subserviently being remorseful and reassuring about something that happened 5 years ago wouldn't seem to be a good place for either H or W.

I have never been subservient.....and i dont HAVE to do anything....I CHOOSE to assure my husband that i understand what i have done

 

 

(that's why I asked about the timings)

 

I hope this helps you to understand better.

[katielee]

I echo what mrs John Adams has said, although I believe the BS has to work very hard at healing themselves too. Self forgiveness is so damm elusive, for some reason. Forgiveness of others was simply a time thing for me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee....I agree with you....we all have to work on ourselves....but the support and reassurance from our spouse helps us to do that.

[m.snow]

 

For me having to be subserviently being remorseful and reassuring about something that happened 5 years ago wouldn't seem to be a good place for either H or W.

 

(that's why I asked about the timings)

 

if one is a cheater. he/she has a life time to prove that he or she will never cheat again. "a life-time".

 

don't ever place that burden on the betrayed.

 

that's your cross to carry. if you cannot if you don't want to burden yourself. then leave. if you want the easy way out then leave.

[understand50]

Noirek

 

Glad to head from you. You do have a big point, WS are treated badly on LS. What we fail at, is offering support to foks who are trying to reclaim control of thier life. For every BS, there is an WS. For those WS,s who are trying to do the right thing, we need to offer support, compashion, and remind them, gently, what is the moral thing to do.

 

Drive by attacks, giving divorce as the only option, and treating WS as less then human. You, have endured them all, but I hope you did take something from here that gave you some hope, and some advice that helped you. I have always thought that you showed great courage and grace comming here and giving the us privalge of seeing your struggling with regaining control of your life. I am sorry that you have not always found the support here you may have need.

 

As always, I wish you luck and peace of mind.

 

PS I am writing on a a tablet, so my post are more disjonted then normal

[Try]

But i came back because my counsellor thing was a flop. I wasn't interested in hearing how I cheated because of my husband's actions.

You saying that you were not "interested in hearing how I cheated because of my husband's actions" is why your marriage has a chance. No blame shifting. No reinventing history. Good luck to you.

[katielee]

I have no idea why blaming the BS is the MO for therapists... Its like they're all taught in Infidelity 101 that an affair is a symptom of a broken marriage. It's not. It's a symptom of a broken person.. And that if the WS was happy in the marriage they wouldnt cheat. What is really happening is the WS isn't happy with themselves and justifies selfishness to get that happiness. When (or if) the WS figures out everything they needed was in themselves to begin with and having an affair they BETRAYED THEMSELVES as well as others, well, thats a smack upside the head. I do a lot of eye rolling to myself.

[Rainbowlove]

if one is a cheater. he/she has a life time to prove that he or she will never cheat again. "a life-time".

 

don't ever place that burden on the betrayed.

 

that's your cross to carry. if you cannot if you don't want to burden yourself. then leave. if you want the easy way out then leave.

 

I do not have a life time to prove anything to anyone, not even my spouse.

 

I believe what the poster is saying is that no one should stay in a marriage where they feel like they have to continually prove over and over again they are trust worthy and spend the rest of their lives trying to make everything okay for their spouse.

 

And I agree with that and who would want a marriage or relationship like that?

 

When TWO people decided to stay in a marriage after infidelity, then TWO people, NOT ONE, must then make it work TOGETHER.

 

Or as you say, they must BOTH decide it's not gonna work.

 

It's not the WS job to keep proving for the remainder of their lives. At some point, trust has to be rebuilt or what's the point of reconciliation?

 

I disagree with you completely.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have no idea why blaming the BS is the MO for therapists... Its like they're all taught in Infidelity 101 that an affair is a symptom of a broken marriage. It's not. It's a symptom of a broken person.. And that if the WS was happy in the marriage they wouldnt cheat. What is really happening is the WS isn't happy with themselves and justifies selfishness to get that happiness. When (or if) the WS figures out everything they needed was in themselves to begin with and having an affair they BETRAYED THEMSELVES as well as others, well, thats a smack upside the head. I do a lot of eye rolling to myself.

 

WOW....i give this post a thousand likes!

 

Katielee....you make a good point....one that i have not really ever considered. But I think you may be on to something. When i had my affair....I was not happy with ME....and because i was unhappy with who I was....I began to pick apart my husband. Who had changed? ME... I was the broken one...and i became totally self destructive.....I was so NOT the person i became....it went against every fiber of my being. Don't misunderstand me....it is still no excuse to cheat....there is no REASON to cheat...but there certainly may have been a reason for me to get help and looking back...I needed help. My husbands love and devotion...his commitment to our marriage truly saved me in so very many ways. I am so grateful he never gave up on me...

[Rainbowlove]

It's a symptom of a broken person.. And that if the WS was happy in the marriage they wouldnt cheat. What is really happening is the WS isn't happy with themselves and justifies selfishness to get that happiness. When (or if) the WS figures out everything they needed was in themselves to begin with and having an affair they BETRAYED THEMSELVES as well as others, well, thats a smack upside the head. I do a lot of eye rolling to myself.

 

I think it's actually both in some cases. A broken person and a broken marriage (communication, emotional/physical intimacy and other factors).

 

Or just a marriage that is going through the motions for a long time and both people become disconnected and someone else walks into the picture.

 

It happens.

 

It's not right. But it's not always the case of just one person is broken. That's a pretty blanketed statement and it's just not 100% in every case.

 

Sorry to disagree with you, too.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I do not have a life time to prove anything to anyone, not even my spouse.

 

I believe what the poster is saying is that no one should stay in a marriage where they feel like they have to continually prove over and over again they are trust worthy and spend the rest of their lives trying to make everything okay for their spouse.

 

And I agree with that and who would want a marriage or relationship like that?

 

When TWO people decided to stay in a marriage after infidelity, then TWO people, NOT ONE, must then make it work TOGETHER.

 

Or as you say, they must BOTH decide it's not gonna work.

 

It's not the WS job to keep proving for the remainder of their lives. At some point, trust has to be rebuilt or what's the point of reconciliation?

 

I disagree with you completely.

 

Rainbowlove.....it takes two to make it work...and that is why i say

The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

 

to heal the relationship...the wayward has to begin the process by helping the betrayed to heal....once the process begins...healing comes for both....and marriage...relationships must be worked on on a daily basis. It never ends....Trust is certainly rebuilt...but as waywards...we pulled the rug right out from under our partners....who ALREADY trusted us. I believe they must be reassured that we will never do that again.

 

This is done through love...not being subservient. I WANT my spouse to know my every move....I WANT my spouse to know I love him so much I am willing to do whatever it takes to make him comfortable. I am not a door mat....I am a strong woman....and i certainly have my own opinions and i make them known. But I NEVER want him to doubt me....I NEVER want him to experience the fear and pain I put him through....I would die first before i did that to him again.

 

So I do agree with you.....but I also agree with M. Snow....It is our burden to carry the rest of our lives...and if we are doing it right...our partner will help us. It is that simple.

[Red123]

I think it's actually both in some cases. A broken person and a broken marriage (communication, emotional/physical intimacy and other factors).

 

Or just a marriage that is going through the motions for a long time and both people become disconnected and someone else walks into the picture.

 

It happens.

 

It's not right. But it's not always the case of just one person is broken. That's a pretty blanketed statement and it's just not 100% in every case.

 

Sorry to disagree with you, too.

I can't speak for others but this pretty much sums up what happened with us. Motions, lack of respect, lack of support for eachother and no one working to fix it. Then someone comes in telling him how amazing he is and is so grateful that he likes her, boom it wasn't a far fall for him to engage.

[autumnnight]

Noirek, the point is, in order to improve, to find happiness, to wake up smiling at life, you have to start at the basics. Humility, honesty, willingness to admit fault, and openness to try new ways of doing things. That's how you start building a better life. I'm no better, when people criticize me, I run. But then I think on it and try to admit they may be right, and I look for the real truth. Which is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

Here's the thing. Someone like Noirek ALREADY has admitted she was wrong. She ALREADY is humble.

 

There is only one reason that a stranger would attack someone like Noirek when she disagrees with something: that person has issues and has chosen not to heal, and Noirek is their latest proxy punching bag.

 

There is no other motive. It has nothing to do with helping Noirek or the poster in whatever thread. It's a chance to dig at a cheater. Period.