Nothing new

[Mrs. John Adams]

yes charger....sometimes it is done behind the scenes. autumnnight is honest and forthright...and many times for the underdog. We need her here.

[autumnnight]

yes charger....sometimes it is done behind the scenes. autumnnight is honest and forthright...and many times for the underdog. We need her here.

 

 

I'm not special in any of those ways. I am terribly imperfect...terribly.

 

And because of that, sometimes I want all the other stubbornly imperfect people to have some of the kind of tough truth wrapped in actual care that I have gotten in my own life. It was never the anger, the demeaning, and certainly not the twisted scare tactics that broke down my defenses....it was the staggering idea that someone cared enough to...CARE even though I was truly crappy.

 

That often intense, frequently whiny autumn is hiding way to much familiarity with the pain of being a pariah.

[NewLeaf512]

I I have no idea why I am wading in here, I do believe that whatever works for the people in the R is right for them.

 

I was first a BW ( first time I've ever thought of myself this way) and later at first an unknowingly OW in a PA, and then after finding out ExMM was M not separated as he had said, I never saw him again but knowingly had an EA for a few years. Man I have been a very angry at myself, embarrassed, confused, sad, broken-hearted and incredulous. I've even been furious with him. What I have been most of all is sorry for hurt caused to others by me. On some level I'll always know I hurt others but I don't have a time machine to change it. I learned from it.

 

I'm with autumn night on this. I'm not going to Opus Dei myself to death forever. I made amends the best I could. I felt horrific. I'll always be sad I didn't have the turpitude to be different, and that me being selfish and ignorant and stupid enough to trust ExMM when I had evidence he was a liar.

 

G-d is my judge and he will sort me out when I get there. My identity isn't as OW. And 30 years from now I won't be hanging my head in shame.

[katielee]

I don't think one person here has said that the WS needs to hang their head in shame for 30 years. I'll gladly talk about it in 30 years. But not with shame. But as something horrible that happened. I'm not sure why people equate talking about affair as punishment. There is a big difference in having it thrown in the WS's face and talking about the facts calmly.

[autumnnight]

I don't think one person here has said that the WS needs to hang their head in shame for 30 years. I'll gladly talk about it in 30 years. But not with shame. But as something horrible that happened. I'm not sure why people equate talking about affair as punishment. There is a big difference in having it thrown in the WS's face and talking about the facts calmly.

 

True.

 

15 years ago my then husband lost a job because....he didn't do his job. He sulked through the severance and all our savings, not even really looking for a job until almost nothing was left. It just about killed us, and we had young children. I was terrified. I cannot express how it affected me.

 

If a friend came to me stressed about a job loss, I might even today share that piece of my life if I thought it would be helpful. For a long time after that, any time he got discouraged in a job I got inwardly nervous. But I tried to be encouraging. Sometimes we DID talk about that awful period - SOMETIMES being very very rarely - but only in the sense of how to prevent being in that place again. THAT is talking about it.

 

If I had mentioned it every time money was tight, if I had freaked out every time he had a bad day because it was a trigger for me, or if I had gone off on his head and hovered over him making sure he didn't blow it "this time" when he lost another job....that would not be talking about it. That would be punishing. And I think everyone here would agree.

 

When you tell a remorseful WS who has garnered the courage to ask strangers for help that she is a 'ho and you hope she loses her children, you are NOT helping. Period. Years alter, when she has shown herself to be a paragon of restored virtue, when you post that little dig at her because you don't agree, so you say "of COURSE a WAYWARD spouse would think that," you are emotionally unintelligent and rude. Period.

 

Own it. Apologize for it. Be a grown up.

 

And that is all I have to say about that (Forrest Gump )

[beatcuff]

Trying to steer this back to the OP:

 

Very few people are interested in a cheater's opinion. The top of this forum says for both ws and bs but it really doesn't feel like that.

 

i find it concerning that many BS on this site seem stuck, refuse to move forward, even years after. they make the same statements over and over. their bitterness is obvious and their need to share and spread that bitterness is equally obvious. their stand is absolute and should not be questioned, there is no justification for anything else.

 

in the end it serves only to support the decision the WS made.

[katielee]

in the end it serves only to support the decision the WS made.

 

that being? It's ok to cheat on someone who's not living life to YOUR liking? How about just leave?

I don't see many people stuck here..maybe a couple. I see people trudging forward making their lives beautiful testaments to surviving trauma.

[waterwoman]

Problem with infidelity is that it doesn't just disappear from the record of a life because it happened over x years/months ago. In the same way that the death of a parent for example doesn't get forgotten. It hurt, it did damage, it left it's mark. I still hurt sometimes - H caught me staring into space the other day with tears in my eyes - something had reminded me of a event that happened about a week before dday. He just hugged me and we said nothing about it. I didn't do it to manipulate or guilt-trip him - I didn't even know he was there. The past jumped up and smacked me in the face. It happens. We both have to live with it. We are gentle and forgiving with each other now - we both have wounds that pain from time to time.

 

If a couple decide to reconcile, the onus is on the remorseful WS particularly to make the most effort at first while the BS is grieving and in shock, then the couple together work to heal the rift and make the relationship healthy and happy. It make take years, it may take all they have and still fail. There are no guarantees even with best will in the world.

 

The problem comes when a couple don't accept that it has failed. And I don't even blame them for that - if you want something enough I suppose it's hard to let it go. Maybe those are the relationships where the affair is used as a stick to beat with.

[autumnnight]

Trying to steer this back to the OP:

 

 

 

i find it concerning that many BS on this site seem stuck, refuse to move forward, even years after. they make the same statements over and over. their bitterness is obvious and their need to share and spread that bitterness is equally obvious. their stand is absolute and should not be questioned, there is no justification for anything else.

 

in the end it serves only to support the decision the WS made.

 

I can see why you might feel this way, but if you spend some time reading around other places, you'd be amazed at how open and humane LS seems by comparison. Not to mention, no matter how much I may have disagreed with or even infuriated a fellow poster on LS, not one of them have ever tried to pop up in my off LS life. It seems pretty crazy-proof as sites go

[beatcuff]

that being? It's ok to cheat on someone who's not living life to YOUR liking? How about just leave?

 

this thread is not about cheating or leaving or...

 

I don't see many people stuck here..maybe a couple.

 

wait, you are proving my case. instead of keeping with THIS thread is goes back to "why cheat", "why not leave" or some other 'canned' response. there are several posters that are stuck, one on this thread, i assume board rules prevent me from naming them.

 

I see people trudging forward making their lives beautiful testaments to surviving trauma.

 

so then the OP is wrong, the claimed attacks are imagined, her pain/frustration is ---- less worthy (wait that would make OP right, i think).

[katielee]

this thread is not about cheating or leaving or...

 

 

 

.

 

then why did you throw in a comment implying the decision the WS makes to cheat makes sense?

[autumnnight]

so then the OP is wrong, the claimed attacks are imagined, her pain/frustration is ---- less worthy (wait that would make OP right, i think).

 

Ah yes, the age old issue...which those who have cheated will always feel acutely and those who haven't will always ignore or deny or deflect from.

 

No one is actually asking a poster to be less mean to a cheater. They just want said people to acknowledge their rudeness. In other words...admit the sky is blue.

[turnera]

Trying to steer this back to the OP:

 

 

 

i find it concerning that many BS on this site seem stuck, refuse to move forward, even years after. they make the same statements over and over. their bitterness is obvious and their need to share and spread that bitterness is equally obvious. their stand is absolute and should not be questioned, there is no justification for anything else.

 

in the end it serves only to support the decision the WS made.

Neither my husband nor I have cheated. I post to cheaters here in an attempt to get them to wake up before they ruin everything in their lives. Cheaters are usually high on PEA and cannot understand the ramifications. Do I get angry or pushy sometimes when they steadfastly hold on to their 'rignt' to cheat? Yeah, I do. Cos I see the trail of destruction they're creating. No bitterness here, just anger at selfishness.

 

btw, I just read a cheater's update on a thread here - mistress, pregnant wife - he ended up losing it all, despite us trying every which way to get him to see what the outcome was going to be. Now he's alone, has nothing, nobody supporting him...and NOW he says "I guess I should have worked harder to make it work." Ya think? But even now, his post is all about HIS suffering, HIS loneliness. Maybe you just can't change selfish.

[autumnnight]

Neither my husband nor I have cheated. I post to cheaters here in an attempt to get them to wake up before they ruin everything in their lives. Cheaters are usually high on PEA and cannot understand the ramifications. Do I get angry or pushy sometimes when they steadfastly hold on to their 'rignt' to cheat? Yeah, I do. Cos I see the trail of destruction they're creating. No bitterness here, just anger at selfishness.

 

btw, I just read a cheater's update on a thread here - mistress, pregnant wife - he ended up losing it all, despite us trying every which way to get him to see what the outcome was going to be. Now he's alone, has nothing, nobody supporting him...and NOW he says "I guess I should have worked harder to make it work." Ya think? But even now, his post is all about HIS suffering, HIS loneliness. Maybe you just can't change selfish.

 

I don't mind people being firm as long as they have the toughness to take what they dish out. It's the name-calling and badgering that I don't like. And that goes for WS, BS who are shamed for leaving or reconciling, victims of abuse...all of it.

[nightmare01]

I don't mind people being firm as long as they have the toughness to take what they dish out. It's the name-calling and badgering that I don't like. And that goes for WS, BS who are shamed for leaving or reconciling, victims of abuse...all of it.

 

IMO I don't think anyone who has not gone through this mess as a BS or as a WS can really give valid advice about infidelity.

 

Most of the BS's I've spoken to over the years always thought they would instantly leave the marriage if their spouse cheated, and yet most of these same BS's stayed in their marriages and reconciled. You never know what you'll do until you actually are in the situation.

 

It's also impossible IMO for anyone to really get the level of pain and degradation and just plain crazy that goes on in the mind of a BS after Dday. Even WS that witness it don't really get it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Nightmare...John always told me if I cheated ...he would divorce me. I always said if he cheated..li would understand.

 

I cheated in year 11... He is still with me 32 years later.

 

None of us can possibly predict the future or how we might handle a situation until we are in the situation.

 

I agree with your post.

[turnera]

IMO I don't think anyone who has not gone through this mess as a BS or as a WS can really give valid advice about infidelity.

*shrug*

 

I've read just about every book or article there is about infidelity. I've given advice on or read threads about at least 3 or 4 thousand instances of infidelity, from start to finish, on at least five different forums, over a period of at least 15 years.

 

There IS a script cheaters follow and there is also a script that many, if not most, betrayed spouses follow. It doesn't deviate except with rare exception. On top of that, I have no agenda, other than to try to head off the upcoming devastation sure to come, to the upmost ability I have, so my advice might even be MORE beneficial to people experiencing infidelity. Because I can look at it from 50,000 feet above and see what is really going on and give appropriate advice based on what academia says will and won't work and a somewhat feasible 'research database' of 3000 to 4000 case studies, instead of telling you what I wish I had done or not done and instead of being emotional about it.

[autumnnight]

I've never lost a spouse, but I could still offer comfort to my friend when she did. I've never been an abused wife, but I understand the signs of abuse and know what resources are available. Empathy, understanding, and a desire to help go a long way.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Being supportive...comforting....we all can do..and it is certainly appreciated and needed.

 

People offering infidelity advice who have no experience with infidelity....I compare to people who don't have children telling me how to raise my kids....I don't care how many books you have read or forums you have been on...until you have walked in my shoes....don't tell me how to raise my children. There is no one size fits all....

[beatcuff]

IMO I don't think anyone who has not gone through this mess as a BS or as a WS can really give valid advice about infidelity. <<snip>>

 

It's also impossible IMO for anyone to really get the level of pain and degradation and just plain crazy that goes on in the mind of a BS after Dday. Even WS that witness it don't really get it.

 

so you agree the OP and other WS should just shut up, go away, they can't possibly offer --- anything. oh wait those that are not BS should also 'butt out'.

 

this leaves the BS all asking: why? surround yourself with 'yes men' and you are doomed to never get the complete truth and worse repeat history. no wait: "trust but verify" that's the answer. better known as: my next partner will carry the burden of my past failed relationships. is that really health?

 

i do not want to repeat myself with prior posts (different threads). BS, at some point, need to do a realistic review of the events that led to their current circumstances. this is where 'others' can offer insight that may give some visibility, too bad by that point they have already been drummed out.

[66Charger]

I hope something new comes your way soon Noirek. You never know, you could be just minding your business, posting on a forum, and Bam! You find love again. Crazy stupid kind of love