Nothing new

[autumnnight]

if one is a cheater. he/she has a life time to prove that he or she will never cheat again. "a life-time".

 

don't ever place that burden on the betrayed.

 

that's your cross to carry. if you cannot if you don't want to burden yourself. then leave. if you want the easy way out then leave.

 

There is a difference between a lifetime of renewed faithfulness and a lifetime of punishment. ANY person who doles out the latter has just as much of a character problem as the cheater.

[katielee]

Of course in many cases both spouses are broken. But that really has nothing to do with the choice of the WS to have an affair.

[Rainbowlove]

It is our burden to carry the rest of our lives.

 

I can't subscribe to this chain of thought.

 

I respect you and what has worked and your H through your reconciliation process, but I absolutely cannot carry a burden like this around forever - it's too heavy and it's detrimental to my mental health and happiness and the overall health of our marriage.

 

My wife has been the biggest advocate for me to "let go" of my affair. She has begged and pleaded with me to move on from it, to stop beating myself up, to stop feeling sick over it, to stop crying, to truly forgive myself, because she already has and she knew we would NEVER move forward if I was STUCK in the pain of it.

 

I do not intend to carry any burden for the rest of my life. I simply cannot.

 

I do intend to make my spouse feel safe and loved and respected for the rest of my life. That, I can do.

 

There is a difference.

[autumnnight]

A person who believes that our sin is something we must carry forever does not have a Biblical understanding of forgiveness or what Christ did. It is that simple.

 

We are not called to mea culpa every day for the rest of our lives.

 

We just aren't.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me explain it this way

 

When I cheated....I placed a bag of rocks around my husbands neck...he did not ask for that bag...I put it there without his permission...without thinking how heavy it would be...I did not care...I was only thinking of me...that bag of rocks will be around his neck the rest of his life. It will never go away.

 

As the person who put that bag around his neck..it is my job to help him carry that bag of rocks...so I do everything I can to help him carry it....at first...it is really hard for me...I am full of sorrow to think I did this to him...and he can see that I am doing my part to help him carry it.

 

It is much lighter when we carry it together...he helps me...I help him. But the bag of rocks is still there. As time goes on...we have grown accustomed to the bag...we carry it...we seldom complain...but every now and then we both look at each other and nod....because we both wish it was not there.

 

The sin of infidelity is forgivable....and I have been the recipient of that forgiveness....but the scar will forever be there to remind me of what I have done. I can live with it. I have been told that sometimes a scar can remind us of how far we have come....I like that....it does not have to remind me of where I have been but how far I have come.

 

I am not a person who grovels at my husbands feet everyday asking for forgiveness....and he certainly does not hold it over me.

 

How what I said became negative and heavy and depressing is not where I was headed in this conversation.

 

You seem to have missed the most important part....we both carry the burden of infidelity...we carry it together....

[NewLeaf512]

I hope this helps you to understand better.

 

 

Thank you for you thoughtful answers. I believe A leave deep wounds to the BS, but as I understand it the tenure of the A was quite small and the elapsed time three decades. I must respectfully disagree that it is a lifetime of stroking and reassuring. He has to forgive and gain trust in my mind sooner than 3 decades and the remorse and reassuring keeps the A front and centre. I liken it to dropping a new anvil on a 30 year old ant hill every day.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Let me ask you this....does the affair ever go away for him?

Is there a betrayed spouse here that can honestly say ...the infidelity is gone from their mind?

 

No

 

There isn't.

 

As long as he remembers what I did...I will reassure him that I won't do it again.

 

That's the bag of rocks I gave us.

[autumnnight]

Let me ask you this....does the affair ever go away for him?

Is there a betrayed spouse here that can honestly say ...the infidelity is gone from their mind?

 

No

 

There isn't.

 

As long as he remembers what I did...I will reassure him that I won't do it again.

 

That's the bag of rocks I gave us.

 

I guess I'm just not sure how this works. Do you remind him every morning that you aren't going to cheat? Do you reassure him every night that you didn't? Is it a weekly thing? Or is it just that when he triggers, he shares it with you, you reiterate how wrong it was and how you will never do it again, and then move on? I'm not trying to be difficult.

 

Of course the past never changes ( at least not without a tardis or flux capacitor). But there is a difference between knowing the past never changes and dealing with triggers when they come (like when I am sad at times about my friend who died, but I don't think about it every day) and some sort of "ritual" where the A is regularly revisited for reassurance.

[DKT3]

I can't subscribe to this chain of thought.

 

I respect you and what has worked and your H through your reconciliation process, but I absolutely cannot carry a burden like this around forever - it's too heavy and it's detrimental to my mental health and happiness and the overall health of our marriage.

 

My wife has been the biggest advocate for me to "let go" of my affair. She has begged and pleaded with me to move on from it, to stop beating myself up, to stop feeling sick over it, to stop crying, to truly forgive myself, because she already has and she knew we would NEVER move forward if I was STUCK in the pain of it.

 

I do not intend to carry any burden for the rest of my life. I simply cannot.

 

I do intend to make my spouse feel safe and loved and respected for the rest of my life. That, I can do.

 

There is a difference.

 

But you will, you both will. It doesn't go away, it doesn't change. What does go away is the pain that came with it, what does change is the way we react to and handle it when it comes up.

 

It will come a point when you will go a day, then two, then a week that you don't think about it but just like herpes every once in a while that cold sort will pop up and you will have to deal with it.

 

Even when the relationship doesn't last, it doesn't go away.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I give him my schedule everyday...he always knows where I am and what I am doing...not because he requires it..but because I want him to know. I am always transparent....even 32 years later.

 

I tell him often that I love him....

 

and if I see he has triggered...I remind him I understand what I have done...and that I caused him pain and I am sorry. The triggers come less with time...but they are still present..... A show on TV about adultery, a particular car, a particular sport....little things that cause a trigger. I know when it happens most of the time..occasionally I am not as receptive. But if I know ...even a little thing like touching his hand...and looking in his eyes....to tell him..I know. It isn't a big production...I don't fall to my knees and beg for forgiveness. I just reassure him that I am still there helping him carry the burden I placed on him.

 

We don't live our lives centered around the infidelity...we live our lives centered around love.

[autumnnight]

Does there come a point when continuing to talk about adultery becomes like picking a scab so that you can show that it hasn't healed yet?

[Rainbowlove]

I give him my schedule everyday...he always knows where I am and what I am doing...not because he requires it.

 

Are you sure he doesn't require it?

 

What happens if you are gone for an hour or two and he doesn't know your where a bouts?

[Mrs. John Adams]

We don't discuss adultery every day ....it is not our main topic of conversation.

When the infidelity has not been dealt with...it requires more conversation...more cleaning out the wound so to speak. But scab eventually becomes a scar....

 

I cannot answer that rainbow love...because since my infidelity...I have never done that.

 

Not once...from the day I confessed has John asked me to be transparent...it was something I knew I had to do to build trust....and I do it because I want him to trust me.

 

I don't call him every minute and give him an update for goodness sake....but he knows my schedule, my passwords, my accounts. ....and I know his.

 

Let me give you an example. John travels about 50% of the time through the week. One day I was talking to him on the phone and I said...I think I will take myself to lunch today.....

I heard silence on the other end......

A few seconds later...he said...wow...that's exactly what you said when you planned to meet the OM for lunch.

 

I felt horrible....I could not touch him...all I could do was say oh god honey..I am sorry. I wasn't thinking! I won't go to lunch.....

He said it's ok babe...it just took my breath away for a minute.

 

Do you see how these things happen? Do you understand that even 32 years later it can punch you in the stomach? Do you see that I am responsible for that pain?

 

He did not ask for it....and I can never redo. Oh how I wish I could....

A friend of mine I met on another forum made a statement one time that I thought was incredible.

The bs and the WS want exactly the same thing...they want it to never have happened in the first place.

[truncated]

I give him my schedule everyday...he always knows where I am and what I am doing...not because he requires it..but because I want him to know. I am always transparent....even 32 years later.

 

I tell him often that I love him....

 

and if I see he has triggered...I remind him I understand what I have done...and that I caused him pain and I am sorry. The triggers come less with time...but they are still present..... A show on TV about adultery, a particular car, a particular sport....little things that cause a trigger. I know when it happens most of the time..occasionally I am not as receptive. But if I know ...even a little thing like touching his hand...and looking in his eyes....to tell him..I know. It isn't a big production...I don't fall to my knees and beg for forgiveness. I just reassure him that I am still there helping him carry the burden I placed on him.

 

We don't live our lives centered around the infidelity...we live our lives centered around love.

 

 

Just my opinion, but it sounds like you look at the little things you do to reassure him as being for his benefit, not because he asks you to do them or because he wants to keep punishing you. It's not about that. You do them because you love him and you want him to know that. They are tangible expression of your feelings for him.

 

It's not really any different than someone who gives his wife a flower everyday because he wants to show her he loves her. In that couple, little gifts like that are language of love, in your marriage, it's these little reassurances.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you...you get it.

[Rainbowlove]

We don't discuss adultery every day ....it is not our main topic of conversation.

When the infidelity has not been dealt with...it requires more conversation...more cleaning out the wound so to speak. But scab eventually becomes a scar....

 

I cannot answer that rainbow love...because since my infidelity...I have never done that.

 

Not once...from the day I confessed has John asked me to be transparent...it was something I knew I had to do to build trust....and I do it because I want him to trust me.

 

I don't call him every minute and give him an update for goodness sake....but he knows my schedule, my passwords, my accounts. ....and I know his.

 

Let me give you an example. John travels about 50% of the time through the week. One day I was talking to him on the phone and I said...I think I will take myself to lunch today.....

I heard silence on the other end......

A few seconds later...he said...wow...that's exactly what you said when you planned to meet the OM for lunch.

 

I felt horrible....I could not touch him...all I could do was say oh god honey..I am sorry. I wasn't thinking! I won't go to lunch.....

He said it's ok babe...it just took my breath away for a minute.

 

Do you see how these things happen? Do you understand that even 32 years later it can punch you in the stomach? Do you see that I am responsible for that pain?

 

He did not ask for it....and I can never redo. Oh how I wish I could....

A friend of mine I met on another forum made a statement one time that I thought was incredible.

The bs and the WS want exactly the same thing...they want it to never have happened in the first place.

 

You do what's right for you and John. I respect it.

 

We do what's right for us.

 

What works, works.

[autumnnight]

Thank you...you get it.

 

So one could argue that you are merely expressing regular love to your spouse in the way you know he needs and appreciates....rather than a penance or bag of rocks.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Rainbowlove..absolutely.......we are all on a journey here we would rather not be on. We do the best we can.....and there is no rule book that works for everyone.

Forums are for gleaning information that we can apply to our situation. They are not meant to be absolute.

 

Autumn...yes except that our relationship will forever have the bag of rocks....and we both know it. my husband gave me a gift....the gift of reconciliation.....I didnt deserve it.....but I have given him the things he needs, ....transparency, remorse...and I have carried my load to help him heal so that he could forgive me. And I have been able to forgive myself. Our marriage is a good one...our foundation is strong...I cracked it...but we have reinforced it. we see the crack....it is oh so tiny now....but we know it is still there.

 

I have never professed to have all the answers. We have made many mistakes along the way. But I do think that for two kids 17 and 19 ....to still be together 43 years later....we did something right.

[Bittersweetie]

When I first joined this site there were a few VERY vocal anti-WW posters and VERY little moderation. I didn't post much because I knew I was still too raw to take what they dished out. But I continued to read their posts to others, and realized that the ones that pissed me off the most were the ones hitting a sore spot that I needed to acknowledge and address. That's still the case today.

 

I learned to look past the delivery and projection of some posters and see if the point was valid. Sometimes it wasn't; I moved on. Sometimes it was and I thought on that point myself. Like many say, take the advice/info that works for you and ignore the rest.

 

I also don't really engage with posters being too pushy or off topic. I'm not really into debating or have this need to be right all the time so I just let it go. Maybe it's just a change of mindset needed to deal with posters who rub you the wrong way.

 

I agree that sometimes this is a tough place for WS (especially WW). But there are so many people here who have shared personal thoughts and feelings that do help others trying to change and move forward. These posters are truly like gifts from the internet. So please stick around and maybe utilize the ignore feature more often.

 

Good luck,

B

[autumnnight]

I may just live in dreamland.

 

I could never be married to someone who I knew viewed me as less. Ever. I could not fully give myself to or receive from someone who I KNEW would always view me through one lens spanning one period of my life. Ever.

 

I'll be even more blunt. I do not think an unequal marriage where the A IS the center (because it is the measuring stick of each one's present value) is recovery.

[Rainbowlove]

I may just live in dreamland.

 

I could never be married to someone who I knew viewed me as less. Ever. I could not fully give myself to or receive from someone who I KNEW would always view me through one lens spanning one period of my life. Ever.

 

I'll be even more blunt. I do not think an unequal marriage where the A IS the center (because it is the measuring stick of each one's present value) is recovery.

 

I can't argue with you there. I'd feel the same way.

 

I do, if I haven't said it yet, appreciate your bluntness - even when I've been on the receiving end of it.

[autumnnight]

I try to be tactful and kind most of the time. However, as someone who has herself been redeemed from all sorts of sin and who knows how Jesus sees her (as completely clean), and as one who knows that I am to forgive as I have been forgiven (and yes, forgiveness is Biblical, and just like WE cannot earn ours, others do not "earn" theirs).....

 

I just do not agree with the idea that a period of bad choices (or eve moreso ONE bad choice) is to result in permanent lesser position and permanent retribution. I did not like The Scarlet letter the first time I read it, and I can assure you it in no way coincides with a real understanding of the Bible. No matter what degreed person may say otherwise.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Autumn...what in the world makes you think that John Adams views me as less? Less than what?

We are equals in this marriage...my hurts are his...his hurts are mine...his victories are mine and mine are his.

I am a damn good wife...not perfect...but then neither is he. We both do our best to never take each other for granted...to build up rather than tear down. I know his weaknesses...he knows mine...we love and support each other. I love him for who he is....and I admire him for his strength to keep us together when I gave up.

Less? Oh no my dear friend....I am not less in any way. We all have sinned....and I believe that while John struggled to forgive me....my God forgave me the minute I asked. When we have wronged our brother...it is our responsibility to right that wrong. Does my husband not deserve that from me? Does he not deserve the best I have to offer? I am not less ....I am redeemed.

[autumnnight]

Autumn...what in the world makes you think that John Adams views me as less? Less than what?

We are equals in this marriage...my hurts are his...his hurts are mine...his victories are mine and mine are his.

I am a damn good wife...not perfect...but then neither is he. We both do our best to never take each other for granted...to build up rather than tear down. I know his weaknesses...he knows mine...we love and support each other. I love him for who he is....and I admire him for his strength to keep us together when I gave up.

Less? Oh no my dear friend....I am not less in any way. We all have sinned....and I believe that while John struggled to forgive me....my God forgave me the minute I asked. When we have wronged our brother...it is our responsibility to right that wrong. Does my husband not deserve that from me? Does he not deserve the best I have to offer? I am not less ....I am redeemed.

 

Oh Mrs. Adams, I did not mean you at all. I understand your perspective. You and your dear husband are living YOUR lives honorably and lovingly and, quite frankly, amazingly.

 

Sadly, there are many who have been fed the lie that the only true reconciliation is really penance and amends and a lifetime of checklists and reminders.

 

You live in love and forgiveness...because you understand God's truth.

[Mrs. John Adams]

If John had ever mistreated me...if he had ever abused me....if he had ever talked down to me and treated me like a dog...I would never have stayed.

Don't misunderstand me...I am a spunky little girl....I stand up for myself.

If we are talking religion....let's look at Jesus....he meekly went to his death....but just a short time before that he drove the people from the temple...he did not do that by asking sweetly and demurely. He yelled and was assertive.

 

I have never been a wife who walks three step behind my husband. While he may tower over me...my place is right there beside him....hand in hand....together. That's a partnership....he is strong when I am weak....I love the line...you complete me...why? Because it is true....corny...lol...but true.

 

There are certainly betrayed spouses here that believe because of the infidelity...their spouse becomes less...yes I agree with you. And I suspect...in 32 years...they won't still be together.

 

There were many on another forum who told John to divorce me...many who said I was not worth keeping...they were wrong.

 

Love shack is one of the kindest forums toward waywards I have ever seen. That's why I am here and not on other forums.

Sometimes advice is harsh...but it is given with good intent.

 

Love shack is in my opinion a kinder gentler place....and I think it is moderated very fairly.