Who pays on the first date? - CNN article

[Timshel]

Wow, really?! Being a little hard on him, aren't ya? Your post was in direct response to Enigma's post.

 

So, you think he's a "sucker" because he plays the numbers game by dating more than one woman...and because he's "pissing about" dealing with women who are either relics from the 1950s that don't contribute anything financially and/or sick of dealing with women like you who bend so far to the other extreme that you expect him to "know how to be still" and "not date anyone at all" because he supposedly has "poor budgeting skills"?

 

FYI, there's NOTHING whatever wrong with a guy expecting a woman to contribute her fair share financially when it comes to going out on dates! Why should the guy have to pay for everything? Because he's a male?

 

And yes - it IS a numbers game. How do you expect Enigma or any man to find a woman he's attracted to and compatible with? Do you expect all women to approach him and to ask him out on dates and for them to pay his way?

 

 

You really expect men NOT to date any women at all so they don't complain about spending money on taking these women out on dates?

 

Um, don't you think that's just a teensy weensy bit extreme?

 

 

 

.

 

Twist my words much? I agree with enigma....I 'liked' his post.

 

It seems you have interpreted my post as it suits you and that is fine with me. I have no desire to repeat my self or explain my text.

 

We will agree to disagree over your interpretation. Have a good night BOZG.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

Twist my words much? I agree with enigma....I 'liked' his post.

 

It seems you have interpreted my post as it suits you and that is fine with me. I have no desire to repeat my self or explain my text.

 

We will agree to disagree over your interpretation. Have a good night BOZG.

 

 

Hmm, so I guess you were just being sarcastic with your entire response to Enigma's post, eh?

 

Okay.

 

 

 

 

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[gaius]

Hmm, so I guess you were just being sarcastic with your entire response to Enigma's post, eh?

 

Okay.

She was saying a guy doesn't have to be a loser and go broke asking every woman who responds to his messages out. And she's right, it's really not that hard as a man to find who you're looking for without multi dating.

 

I hate to break it to you blackops but while a lot of men might not want someone who never contributes at all, nobody wants a girl who's always willing to whip out her own wallet. Easy and emasculating rolled up into one.

[Els]

I find it truly fascinating that this is such a big topic in the US. In Germany everyone pays for themselves and even then it's hard to get a guy to spend some money for himself; last time I decided to hang my chin out there and asked if he wanted to maybe drink some coffee at Starbucks he said "Nah, too expensive". Well, no offense, but if someone doesn't have 4€ to spare for a cup of coffee...

 

That's a new one. Where does he expect to date, if he won't even buy himself a coffee at Starbucks - his living room?

 

It really is interesting how norms differ across various cultures. My guy and I live in a liberal Caucasian country that is similar to yours, but we're Asian and there is a pretty high % of Asians here. Halfway through our last road trip, his card stopped working unexpectedly so I paid for our meals until we came back and he could get the bank to fix it.

 

When we ate in Caucasian restaurants nobody batted an eyelid at me paying for us, but when we ate in traditional Asian restaurants it was pretty awkward. Lots of weird stares from other customers and even the waiters. During one occasion the waiter just handed him the bill without asking if he was paying for us (usually they ask here, even though they don't ask in Asia itself) and he had to pass it to me...

 

I didn't care, I thought it was funny, but he was pretty mortified.

[PrettyEmily77]

Who's paying on the first date has zero bearings on how the potential R is going to go, IME.

 

Never been an issue with any of the guys I've been with or dated; never even been discussed. Sometimes I paid, sometimes he paid (never went dutch, whenever suggested I'd pay for the whole thing, problem solved, I personally find it tacky - probs to do with my upbringing).

 

The BF paid on the first date and every date after that. He won't let me pay when we're out; it's his thing, whatever, no point in making a big deal out of it. I don't feel he's controlling me, he knows I'm not using him. I'm independent and he respects me for it, I've always taken care of myself, I treat him in other ways. We see each other as equals b/c we are, not b/c of who pays what.

[No Limit]

That's a new one. Where does he expect to date, if he won't even buy himself a coffee at Starbucks - his living room?

 

Sadly, you are right even though it was meant as a joke. Over here, guys my age aren't interested in doing anything with a girl except maybe getting her drunk or inviting her to his home and maybe share frozen pizza (but only maybe). Might work with some girls but my standard is a little too high, what good would a partner be if all we'd do together is laze around at home? Big no-go for me.

[Frank2thepoint]

nobody wants a girl who's always willing to whip out her own wallet. Easy and emasculating rolled up into one.

 

Always willing means considerate. There's nothing "easy" or "emasculating" about that. Besides, it doesn't mean she will have to pay all the time.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

She was saying a guy doesn't have to be a loser and go broke asking every woman who responds to his messages out. And she's right, it's really not that hard as a man to find who you're looking for without multi dating.

 

I hate to break it to you blackops but while a lot of men might not want someone who never contributes at all, nobody wants a girl who's always willing to whip out her own wallet. Easy and emasculating rolled up into one.

 

I don't think most guys multi-date or circular date; I think they mostly date one woman after the other, like maybe two women a week or whatever. Um, it may not be 'really that hard for YOU' to find what you're looking for in a woman (besides, don't you already have a GF?), but for a LOT of guys, it's a numbers game. And, unless they look like Andrew Lincoln or Chris Hemsworth and live in a well populated area, some of them DO have difficulty in finding a compatible woman to get acquainted with - which is why dating multiple women within a certain time frame ups their chances of finding one.

 

Yeah, paying for the dates that they ask women out on is just par for the course. Even if they're not expensive dates and he doesn't spend hundreds of dollars on each woman, after dating say, 5 to 8 women per MONTH, it does add up eventually.

 

I don't understand how a woman always being willing to 'whip out her wallet' to contribute on dinners and outings could be 'emasculating'?? How?? How does her offering her fair share make you feel like LESS of a man? Wow, talk about old fashioned values! You take it to a whole other level entirely.

 

But hey, to each his own. As is apparent on this thread alone, there are many women out there who are just as 'old fashioned' as you are and are looking for a man like you! If you ever break up with your GF, at least you won't have to worry about finding another woman who shares your financial values...there are millions of 'em out there!

 

For me personally, I only date men who are confident in themselves and who do NOT feel threatened (or 'emasculated') when I offer to pay my own way or pay for the entire date. A guy's masculinity isn't defined by him always picking up the tab. Just remember...this is 2015. j/s

 

 

 

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[Els]

Sadly, you are right even though it was meant as a joke. Over here, guys my age aren't interested in doing anything with a girl except maybe getting her drunk or inviting her to his home and maybe share frozen pizza (but only maybe). Might work with some girls but my standard is a little too high, what good would a partner be if all we'd do together is laze around at home? Big no-go for me.

 

Ugh. Definitely don't settle for that. If he isn't even willing to go out on dates during the early days, imagine what'll happen later on! I mean, don't get me wrong - spending time together at home with a partner is great fun, but so are dates, and a mix of the two is best. And during the early dating phase I certainly wouldn't go to a guy's house.

[lino]

She was saying a guy doesn't have to be a loser and go broke asking every woman who responds to his messages out. And she's right, it's really not that hard as a man to find who you're looking for without multi dating.

 

I hate to break it to you blackops but while a lot of men might not want someone who never contributes at all, nobody wants a girl who's always willing to whip out her own wallet. Easy and emasculating rolled up into one.

 

 

Emasculating? Aren't you able to feel like a man without shelling out money or something?

 

Everything one needs to be and feel like a man he was born with. Sad that you think that way.

[Leigh 87]

I need a man to pay for dates, but I also throe a few things in.

 

He buys dinner but I'll treat him to beers. Or desert at home later on after dinner, I'll buy his fave chocolate.

 

I'll often show up wih his fave beers. He really loves it.

 

But yeah, when it comes to dates out, dates to me are special and you don't do it every day so I let the man pay.

 

I pay my share in other ways. It's strictly romantic dinner dates that I prefer the male to pay or else I don't feel special or desirable.

 

Everything else the household bills, trips away and the like, should be equal commensurate to your incomes.

 

It is strictly dinner dates that I feel the guy should pay. Some women just get off over chilvary. It's not like we expect him to pay our way in life in general. It I want s new dress I'll buy the dress myself and I won't rely on any man for that stuff.

[Leigh 87]

And if I am not into a guy after date one, I refuse another date. Because I am not into letting men pay for me when I am not into THEM.

[RedRobin]

Weeelll, I've learned that whenever one is challenging established norms, it has to be done with a bit of diplomacy and tact.

 

 

I believe it is my obligation to pull my own weight, and... it is his job to pull his. That includes who pays for dates. I always offer to pay my share... always have.

 

 

I'm still careful to do it in a way that comes across as helpful, not pushy. I don't offer in front of the waiter/waitress, or in any situation where the guy might worry about being perceived as being cheap or not ABLE to pay.

 

As much as I hate it... lots of men are still judged by their ability to pay, just as women are judged by their looks. I hate gender stereotypes, but we can't help but acknowledge that lots of people have their own triggers. I do my best to eliminate those stereotypes and triggers wherever I can. My job, when I'm getting to know someone, is to make them feel comfortable.... while also being true to myself. There is a way to do that that doesn't offend anyone or make him feel 'emasculated'.

 

 

If a guy thought I was 'easy' for being helpful, and letting him know that *I* am one less person in the world who will be judging him based on his salary or what he buys for me... then I don't know what to say... other than its a shame. It has happened, for sure. A few are extremely shocked to learn that, indeed, I am not 'easy' at all. But by then it is too late. Call it a different kind of screening. They have taken my kindness for weakness... and I'm very happy to let them know otherwise. Let them go find some woman who will expect him to pay for everything so he can feel like a 'man'. Be my guest.

Edited September 16, 2015 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

Another reason some men complain about paying is because dating dynamics have changed. How many times have we heard that it's a numbers game these days? Well, those numbers add up! There are a few women on here that say they have been on 50 to 100+ dates. How many of those did she pay for? Odds are, the men are paying for most of those. I'm actually curious how many first dates most guys go on that lead nowhere. I've always been lucky.

 

 

Interestingly, one of the reasons I pay for myself and/or am prepared to pay for myself... is because it obliges me to screen harder and only go out with men I am truly interested in. I wouldn't be going out on nth number of dates knowing that I'm paying my way for all of them unless it is already in my budget to be going out that often.

 

 

Perhaps not surprisingly, it is quite rare when a first date I go on, goes nowhere. It's too bad I didn't keep better statistics, but going back in my mind, I'd say that well over 75% of those first dates ended up in relationships that lasted at least 6 months to a year.

[Timshel]

Good grief......he doesn't always pay, he is in no way emasculated by any money I spend for us/him. I can assure that.

My bf enjoys taking me out and being in charge of our date when he plans it. I like that, it's sexy and thoughtful.

The times that I pay, he's fine with that too.

It works for us.

 

I don't have any problem that he doesn't want me to whip out money every time we're out. I personally find that very attractive. It has nothing to do with ability to pay, it has everything thing to do with compatibility.

 

People should do what they are comfortable doing and within the context of who they are doing it with. First date, ltr, casual, fwb....etc...

 

If you want to pay every time, do it. If you want 50/50 do that, what ever floats your boat and leaves your date with a positive experience. That's what it's all about, right? Dating=fun?

[Lois_Griffin]

However, threads like this make me paranoid. None of the IRL men I know seem fixated on this or seem to feel the way many of you LS men feel about women....but maybe they do? Maybe they are great on the date, and then they go home and rant online about what a greedy beeyotch I am?

 

Maybe dating isn't for me...

I have to admit I haven't run into this either when I was dating. I actually had a few guys act horribly offended when I offered to pay my share or pick up a round of drinks. Most just graciously declined but some were horrified. It was comical.

 

One guy who had a phenomenal job with Microsoft really pulled out all the stops to impress me and took me to some fancy restaurant in a casino. The lowest priced entrée on the menu was STILL $42.00 - and that was ala carte! He said he was getting the lobster and tried to get me to order that as well and I kept insisting that my choice of sea bass ($42.00) was actually what I wanted. I think the lobster was like $70 - the catch of the day. Ack!! He even ordered a nice bottle of wine brought to our table He had clearly made the reservations and had chosen the restaurant and I could just tell he would have been offended if I offered to pay half. I know that bill was over $250.

 

Afterwards, we went to a lounge in the casino complex and he wouldn't accept my offer to get us the first round. I got the distinct impression he didn't want me offering so I lightly backed off.

 

This is much more the experience I've always had. JMHO.

[No Limit]

Ugh. Definitely don't settle for that. If he isn't even willing to go out on dates during the early days, imagine what'll happen later on! I mean, don't get me wrong - spending time together at home with a partner is great fun, but so are dates, and a mix of the two is best. And during the early dating phase I certainly wouldn't go to a guy's house.

 

That's reason #1 why I'm single - it's not just one guy, it's every guy. Not worth the trouble I'm afraid; and no, I'd never just go to a stranger's house.

[gaius]

I don't think most guys multi-date or circular date; I think they mostly date one woman after the other, like maybe two women a week or whatever. Um, it may not be 'really that hard for YOU' to find what you're looking for in a woman (besides, don't you already have a GF?), but for a LOT of guys, it's a numbers game. And, unless they look like Andrew Lincoln or Chris Hemsworth and live in a well populated area, some of them DO have difficulty in finding a compatible woman to get acquainted with - which is why dating multiple women within a certain time frame ups their chances of finding one.

 

Yeah, paying for the dates that they ask women out on is just par for the course. Even if they're not expensive dates and he doesn't spend hundreds of dollars on each woman, after dating say, 5 to 8 women per MONTH, it does add up eventually.

 

I don't understand how a woman always being willing to 'whip out her wallet' to contribute on dinners and outings could be 'emasculating'?? How?? How does her offering her fair share make you feel like LESS of a man? Wow, talk about old fashioned values! You take it to a whole other level entirely.

 

But hey, to each his own. As is apparent on this thread alone, there are many women out there who are just as 'old fashioned' as you are and are looking for a man like you! If you ever break up with your GF, at least you won't have to worry about finding another woman who shares your financial values...there are millions of 'em out there!

 

For me personally, I only date men who are confident in themselves and who do NOT feel threatened (or 'emasculated') when I offer to pay my own way or pay for the entire date. A guy's masculinity isn't defined by him always picking up the tab. Just remember...this is 2015. j/s

It's not about old fashioned and modern black ops. We're not talking about a tie or a clothing style. The male providing for the woman in some way, shape or form, even if it's just dinner and a movie is biological in nature. For both the man and the woman. You can live a life where you go dutch all the time, or pay for the whole date entirely, but you're missing out on a part of your sexuality as a woman. And a man who whines and complains, or let's a woman always pick up half of the tab is missing out on part of his sexuality as a man. Like someone who dines at a crappy restaurant thinking it's amazing when there's a mindblowing one right down the street they've just never been to. =/

 

You can pretty much tell who has genuine, functional experience with women by who understands this. Because they either get it or they don't.

 

And yes, I'm exceptional. Few, if any men can do what I do. I ended up deciding to move to be near Timshel after the first time I saw her, because I knew she was a special woman and it was going somewhere. And few, if any men even with a lifetime of work can inherently understand things and read people like I do, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for any guy to develop the basic skills that would allow them to at least get it right 50% of the time when it comes to first dates, so they at least have some idea it's going somewhere and they're not shelling out endless amounts of money on different women and getting nowhere.

[RedRobin]

It's not about old fashioned and modern black ops. We're not talking about a tie or a clothing style. The male providing for the woman in some way, shape or form, even if it's just dinner and a movie is biological in nature. For both the man and the woman. You can live a life where you go dutch all the time, or pay for the whole date entirely, but you're missing out on a part of your sexuality as a woman. And a man who whines and complains, or let's a woman always pick up half of the tab is missing out on part of his sexuality as a man. Like someone who dines at a crappy restaurant thinking it's amazing when there's a mindblowing one right down the street they've just never been to. =/

 

You can pretty much tell who has genuine, functional experience with women by who understands this. Because they either get it or they don't.

 

And yes, I'm exceptional. Few, if any men can do what I do. I ended up deciding to move to be near Timshel after the first time I saw her, because I knew she was a special woman and it was going somewhere. And few, if any men even with a lifetime of work can inherently understand things and read people like I do, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for any guy to develop the basic skills that would allow them to at least get it right 50% of the time when it comes to first dates, so they at least have some idea it's going somewhere and they're not shelling out endless amounts of money on different women and getting nowhere.

 

I am happy things are working out with you both. Whatever works for you.

 

I don't buy the whole, 'it's primitive thing.' To me, offering to pay my share is just as natural as making sure he has an orgasm just like I do. If he were always the one giving, then that wouldn't feel right.

 

All too often, the guy pays, and it isn't exactly clear what is expected in return. No, me cooking and doing feminine things ain't a fair trade. Not when most 'feminine things' takes orders of magnitude more TIME than whatever time it takes him to earn the cash for that date.

 

I pay my share because I believe in doing my part and pulling my own weight. And I want a guy who doesn't believe in traditional gender roles. I know how to do all those girly things, but I will be damned if some guy expects me to do those things just because I happen to be born with different parts....and it seems just as wrong to me to hold expectations of all men for the same reason.

 

Anyway, everyone doing the same thing seems pretty friggin boring to me.

Edited September 17, 2015 by RedRobin

[Els]

That's reason #1 why I'm single - it's not just one guy, it's every guy. Not worth the trouble I'm afraid; and no, I'd never just go to a stranger's house.

 

That's so odd - what's your age range if you don't mind me asking? I started dating at around 19 and even then we did go out for dates. Of course they weren't very expensive dates - more like coffee, movies, dinner at our version of what you guys call Applebees . But we definitely still went out on dates, so did most of my coupled-up friends.

[Timshel]

I am happy things are working out with you both. Whatever works for you.

 

Thank you

 

I pay my share because I believe in doing my part and pulling my own weight. And I want a guy who doesn't believe in traditional gender roles. I know how to do all those girly things, but I will be damned if some guy expects me to do those things just because I happen to be born with different parts....and it seems just as wrong to me to hold expectations of all men for the same reason.

 

Agree, RedRobin. Completely agree. I have some rage in me, I see it and it does not control me anymore but it's there and it is wrong.

 

Anyway, everyone doing the same thing seems pretty friggin boring to me.

 

Everyone is not doing the same thing. People are finding their way and it's all different and not the same.

I know that you quoted Gaius and I am not his spokesperson. That will never happen. He is far too egotistical. We have both lost someone very close and I see me in you, that's all.

[gaius]

I am happy things are working out with you both. Whatever works for you.

 

I don't buy the whole, 'it's primitive thing.' To me, offering to pay my share is just as natural as making sure he has an orgasm just like I do. If he were always the one giving, then that wouldn't feel right.

 

All too often, the guy pays, and it isn't exactly clear what is expected in return. No, me cooking and doing feminine things ain't a fair trade. Not when most 'feminine things' takes orders of magnitude more TIME than whatever time it takes him to earn the cash for that date.

 

I pay my share because I believe in doing my part and pulling my own weight. And I want a guy who doesn't believe in traditional gender roles. I know how to do all those girly things, but I will be damned if some guy expects me to do those things just because I happen to be born with different parts....and it seems just as wrong to me to hold expectations of all men for the same reason.

 

Anyway, everyone doing the same thing seems pretty friggin boring to me.

It's not about giving and receiving though. A man paying in and of itself is like when you both orgasm at the same time. It's good for the man and good for the woman. At least in a relationship that's functional. I guess if a guy approaches it with the attitude of expecting something else in return that's not going to turn out well for either party. But that's not how it works for me at least.

 

You know I have a lot of respect for you Red, but I have thought your desire to always pay as a woman kind of denies a man a certain level of intimacy. I'm not saying every guy should be supporting the woman completely financially, or always pay for everything. That's kind of unrealistic for most people in today's economy. But there is something that makes it so much better when you take your woman out for dinner and something fun to do on your dime at least every once in a while.

 

I don't know if you really trust men to be honest, if you're thinking about what's expected in return everytime they whip out their wallet. Maybe that's your experience, having guys do that to you, but it's not how it's supposed to be.

[Krieger]

If a woman ask me out she should pay but if I ask her out I going to pay . When it comes to the 2nd date if she twist my arm she can pay. At some point down the road she can pay for dates.

[RedRobin]

It's not about giving and receiving though. A man paying in and of itself is like when you both orgasm at the same time. It's good for the man and good for the woman. At least in a relationship that's functional. I guess if a guy approaches it with the attitude of expecting something else in return that's not going to turn out well for either party. But that's not how it works for me at least.

 

You know I have a lot of respect for you Red, but I have thought your desire to always pay as a woman kind of denies a man a certain level of intimacy. I'm not saying every guy should be supporting the woman completely financially, or always pay for everything. That's kind of unrealistic for most people in today's economy. But there is something that makes it so much better when you take your woman out for dinner and something fun to do on your dime at least every once in a while.

 

I don't know if you really trust men to be honest, if you're thinking about what's expected in return everytime they whip out their wallet. Maybe that's your experience, having guys do that to you, but it's not how it's supposed to be.

 

 

Hmmm. I've heard that before, and I don't understand it at all. To me, when a guy I hardly know tries to pay for me, I feel he's the one denying intimacy.

 

 

When I pay my share, it's the same to me as a guy wanting to cook with me. To me, it is more fun when I share, when we share... Sure, there are times I want to impress him with something... and it would feel weird if he never let me do something nice for him. That part I get... but to me, a guy paying for me doesn't have much effect on me unless he knows me. Maybe because I know plenty of guys who are happy to pay, but they are pretty useless otherwise. Maybe too because I'm around all men pretty much all the time, so maybe I'm just numb to that.

 

 

About the trust thing... I dunno. I don't trust men any more or less than any other person. It's not a gender thing. I always offer to pay my share. If they insist on paying for me, I'm not going to raise a fuss, and I will gracefully accept. But I'm still going to offer. That's just part of my values. If the guy feels deprived somehow by me offering, then I don't really know what to say, except maybe they don't know what to do when their 'one thing' that is supposed to be so amazing is 'taken away'. Ok, I will try to sympathize, but really, if that's the only way they can show they care, then we will have a problem. I'd really prefer to leave money out of a new relationship for all kinds of reasons.

 

 

One of my best first dates was with a guy who knew I liked ice skating, so he scoped out a local park that had an outdoor (free) rink... brought chairs for breaks. You know how much I like activity dates anyway... those are my favorites. Not ones that cost anyone a lot.

Edited September 17, 2015 by RedRobin