Topless at a club.

[westernxer]

She'll be kissing your ass for awhile, that's for sure. At least she didn't sleep with anyone, not that it helps the situation any.

 

She must be totally hot and kinky, and very spontaneous.

 

I'm just musing...

[moimeme]

Hot, kinky, and spontaneous is her dragging Kevin off to make whoopee on the hood of somebody else's Ferrari. Jerry Springer trailer trashy is making out with a woman at a bar while drunk.

[UCFKevin]

Do you think it's a good or bad idea to take a few days off and not talk to her or see her? Get my thoughts together?

[alphamale]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

Do you think it's a good or bad idea to take a few days off and not talk to her or see her? Get my thoughts together?

you should tell her you need a couple wks off cause you are pissed and need to "regroup" mentally. if she loves you it will hurt her (which we want). if she does not love you then she'll be like "OK UCFK"

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by moimeme

Hot, kinky, and spontaneous is her dragging Kevin off to make whoopee on the hood of somebody else's Ferrari. Jerry Springer trailer trashy is making out with a woman at a bar while drunk.

 

people must have different ideas of what is to be considered trashy.

 

 

and bryanp, while much of what you said makes sense, some of your numbered points are irrelevant. i just don't have time now to go through them.

 

but otherwise, well-said.

[Merin]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

Do you think it's a good or bad idea to take a few days off and not talk to her or see her? Get my thoughts together?

 

Sorry about what happend Kevin..

 

My take.. I don't think it was okay for her to have withheld this 411.. IF she really believed she hadn't done something wrong then IMO she would've told you about this before you just happend to find out.

 

Words to live by, don't do thing you would be ashamed of other people knowing about then you have no need to make apologies.

 

I'm not going to speculate or make comment on if her behaviour was/is okay and acceptable(as far as the act itself.. not telling you about I will say was wrong) because as we both know what's okay for one isn't okay for another.. the only thing that matters here is it isn't okay with YOU.

 

Only you know for sure Kevin if this is a deal breaker for you... sometimes sorry really isn't enough.

 

If you feel like you need some time to clear your mind and try to make peace with this on your own then by all means do so.

 

Hope for the best for you..

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by Merin

 

 

 

Words to live by, don't do thing you would be ashamed of other people knowing about then you have no need to make apologies.

 

I'm not going to speculate or make comment on if her behaviour was/is okay and acceptable(as far as the act itself.. not telling you about I will say was wrong) because as we both know what's okay for one isn't okay for another.. the only thing that matters here is it isn't okay with YOU.

 

Only you know for sure Kevin if this is a deal breaker for you... sometimes sorry really isn't enough.

 

 

YES.

[Pocky]

She screwed up - plain and simple. She said she was sorry. It's over - either decide to stay in the relationship with her with the understanding of what the consequences are if it happens again or end the relationship. It's a simple decision - you either forgive her and move on or you claim it's something that can't be forgiven and you end the relationship. People make mistakes and sometimes we can overlook them and sometimes we can't. Make a decision on where you stand and then go with it. You've never struck me as someone that was incapable of making a decision and moving forward.

 

Can you forgive her? Yes or no - that's all you need to ask. If it's no then tell the girl it's over and don't cause unnecessary pain for either one of you. If it's something you can forgive - tell her - tell her what will happen if anything like this occurs again and then move forward in your relationship.

[BrotherAaron]

Yeah, he could just forgive her like that, and make it sooo easy for her. Next time she gets the urge to jump on stage topless, she'll remember how easy it was for her little Kevin to forgive her. She'll remember that he's her bitch, and pissing him off is no big deal.

 

She screwed up - plain and simple. She said she was sorry. It's over

 

She said she's sorry - but it's not over. Everything doesn't disappear with two little words like that. "An apology without remedy is no apology at all." She said she's sorry, now what is she gonna do to show it? How is she going to earn his trust back? If she really gives a s***, she'll be willing to bend over backwards to show it. He doesn't need to decide if it's something he can forgive until she gives him a reason to forgive it. He can be compassionate and forgiving, but he also needs to have expectations, or he might as well end it now.

 

either decide to stay in the relationship with her with the understanding of what the consequences are if it happens again or end the relationship. [...] If it's something you can forgive - tell her - tell her what will happen if anything like this occurs again and then move forward in your relationship.

 

You can't just offer up forgiveness on a silver platter like that. He can run to her telling her that he forgives her and all about the consequences of it happening again - but where are the consequences of it happening to begin with? Why would she believe that anything's going to happen any different the second time? Besides, he might actually need a while to decide if this is a deal breaker or not, and whether to stay or to go. It's not an easy thing to decide to end a relationship - that's something that, around here, should be understood by everyone.

[moimeme]

She screwed up - plain and simple. She said she was sorry.

 

After he found it out. It's not like she ran to him first to tell him - likely she would have tried to hide it forever if she could have. Different from making a mistake and being ashamed even though not caught.

 

I'm thinking that if he wasn't already into her, he'd not be impressed at all by this. This is the problem with hormones and with all the overenthusiasm that accompanies the early stages of a relationship - they blind you to serious flaws. They make you willing to overlook that which ought not be overlooked. Hope drives you on even though that little voice is telling you that this one will be nothing but trouble. And I'm guessing Kevin's little voice is saying just that and he's now fighting it mightily to 'give her a chance'. As a veteran of fights with the little voice, let me tell you that whatever it's saying is right.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by moimeme

As a veteran of fights with the little voice, let me tell you that whatever it's saying is right.

 

You are so f'ing right, moimeme! I'm starting to realize this myself.

[latida]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

 

Plus I readily told her about me doing that the day after it happened. She had absolutely no plans to tell me what she did. She was planning on keeping it to herself and hoping I never found out.

 

 

Yes! This is the part that makes comparing the two events even more impossible. Not only did she perform a sexual act in public with partial nudity, had it recorded for public consumption on the Internet but then intended to not tell you (=lying.)

 

It show a great amount of bad judgment, childishness even insecurity. Have her and her friend done this before?Sounds like she is a fool wanting to keep up with her foolish friend. I would DIE if someone I was with (friend or date) did anything like this whether I was around or not.

 

It is too bad but at least you found out! Now I imagine all you can do is think about how you would feel if she did this again or took it even further. I mean what if it was a private party instead of a public one. SCARY. The imagination runs wild. Much like her behavior! I would chalk it up to childishness. Many college girls go wild! It is something they are desensitized to. You may think about finding someone more mature if you are thinking about the future and settling down.

[Pocky]

Why do we appear to be a society of self-absorbed people that are more concerned with our pride and punishing those that dare wound us than we are interested in forgiving and accepting people because we care for them? I don't subscribe to the "punishment and retribution" school of thought. I don't believe that you have to inflict additional pain and suffering on someone for them to comprehend what they did wrong and how they hurt you.

 

I can look into someone's eyes and know that I hurt them and that's more pain and suffering than I could ever experience. Making me grovel and treating my like **** isn't going to make me suffer any more and it certainly isn't going to cause me to experience some great epiphany regarding my behavior. If someone you care about can't look at you and hurt when they see the pain they've caused then it's probably not the person you should be with.

 

Forgiving her - accepting her mistake - moving forward - does not make someone a bitch. It makes them an amazing person and someone I know I'd never want to hurt.

 

If his inner voice is telling him to walk away then by all means he should walk away - however I don't think that this should be an automatic for everyone in this situation. Maybe I'm more forgiving and accepting of people I'm in relationships with. Maybe I give people the benefit of the doubt when they've hurt me and I assume that they can comprehend the pain they've caused and they can feel guilty for it and want to make amends all on their own without me punishing them and forcing them into a position of humility. For me it's never been an eye for an eye when it comes to love and relationships.

 

In my opinion, we should give what we expect and expect what we give and if they are incapable of meeting then the relationship should end. So it's as simple as that - can she give as much as he can give - if not then leave. If she can and he wants to find out for himself then stay.

[BrotherAaron]

I'm not talking about pride and retribution. I'm talking about holding others to your expectations, and making damn sure that they know that you deserve their respect 100%. It's like you said yourself - we should give what we expect and expect what we give. There is a gray area between immediate forgiveness and complete rejection. If he forgives her, it needs to be because he truly believes that she respects him enough not to do it again - and it's up to him to decide what he expects her to do to prove that. Just crying and frantically apologizing because she's afraid he's going to leave her isn't enough.

[westernxer]

Love it when people cringe, especially when caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

 

I've got Björk's "Human Behaviour" playing in the background to celebrate the occasion.

[moimeme]

Why do we appear to be a society of self-absorbed people that are more concerned with our pride and punishing those that dare wound us than we are interested in forgiving and accepting people because we care for them?

 

This has nothing to do with pride and everything to do with trust. She did this AND then tried to hide it. This bespeaks someone who isn't ashamed - except that she's been caught.

 

I can look into someone's eyes and know that I hurt them and that's more pain and suffering than I could ever experience.

 

Fine. That's you. That's me, too. However, unlike the poster a couple of months ago whose wife had a brief fling, confessed it in tears, and was abjectly miserable about it, this gal didn't react the same way.

 

Oh God, that's so embarassing, we need to get those pictures off.

does not equate to 'what on earth was I thinking' or 'how on earth did I ever get that drunk' 'or I've never done anything like that before' IMHO.

 

Not all apologies are equal, Pocky. The most heartrendingly tragic apologies are proffered by abusers - they come complete with tears, even. Which doesn't stop the abuser from being abusive again and again - each time followed by heartwrenching apologies.

[UCFKevin]

The thing that keeps popping into my mind is, she only feels this way because I found out. If I hadn't, she'd have no gulity conscience and would be fine. And that bugs the hell out of me.

[moimeme]

The thing that keeps popping into my mind is, she only feels this way because I found out. If I hadn't, she'd have no gulity conscience and would be fine. And that bugs the hell out of me.

 

That's what I understood from how you related the situation. And that is defintely not good at all.

[Pocky]

This has nothing to do with pride and everything to do with trust. She did this AND then tried to hide it. This bespeaks someone who isn't ashamed - except that she's been caught.

 

The comment I was responding to had everything to do with pride. Pride is the only thing that would cause someone to be more concerned with being considered someone's "bitch" as opposed to doing what it takes to make the relationship work - if making the relationship work is what was preferred..

 

 

Fine. That's you. That's me, too. However, unlike the poster a couple of months ago whose wife had a brief fling, confessed it in tears, and was abjectly miserable about it, this gal didn't react the same way.

 

Okay - then end the relationship. If she's not acting in a way that displays genuine regret and guilt then end the relationship. What's the purpose of trying to punish someone or make them feel guilty over something they don't feel guilty for. She either regrets it or she doesn't. You can't force someone to truly regret their actions unless they feel they should.

 

Not all apologies are equal, Pocky. The most heartrendingly tragic apologies are proffered by abusers - they come complete with tears, even. Which doesn't stop the abuser from being abusive again and again - each time followed by heartwrenching apologies.

 

Which shows that the apology is bogus. This is exactly what you get when you try to force someone to apologize for something they don't feel sorry for. This is what you get when you try to demand a specific behavior to prove that they regret their behavior when they really don't. If the apology isn't sincere why would anyone think the act would be sincere?

 

I don't see what she could do to prove that she was sorry other than say it and mean it and show it if she is given the chance. If he doesn't believe she is sorry then end the relationship already.

[moimeme]

Which shows that the apology is bogus

 

Not at all. Abusers are humans too; often humans who've had absolutely horrid lives. Their inibitory responses are broken, however, and so they are lousy at controlling themselves. We're not talking sociopathic serial killers here. Abusers are genuinely appalled at what they do on one level. Unfortunately, they aren't just one-level creatures - none of us is - and so the rest of the levels, including those filled with anger, take the upper hand.

 

As for Kevin's situation, nobody's suggesting he make her suffer. He's debating whether he should continue the relationship in light of this event and my vote is no.

[UCFKevin]

My vote is no too.

[moimeme]

 

 

Sorry this happened, Kevin. Small comfort, I know, but better you find out sooner than later. Who knows - maybe this gal would've kept you in Orlando when your future's in CA. Life has a funny way of working out even if it's hard to see that when you've just been gravely disappointed.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

My vote is no too.

 

Knowing myself, I'd probably come to the same conclusion.

[UCFKevin]

The California thing is also a part of the reason. I'd rather not have to deal with leaving someone I care so deeply about when what I really want to do and where I really need to be is somewhere else.

 

I just know that this will always be in the back of my mind if I continue to be with her. I won't trust her. I'll worry every time she goes out and I cannot stand doing that and I won't do it to myself.

[HokeyReligions]

Hi Kevin,

 

I'm sorry that your relationship has hit this bump -- but bumps are part of individual maturity and how you handle them in a relationship is part of bonding and growing.

 

You both behaved somewhat silly while drunk. Neither of you did anything, in my opinion, catastrophic to your budding relationship. Both of your behaviors stemmed from the consumption of alcohol. Why not use this as a way to get closer to each other, move your relationship on to something more solid. Talk about this. Talk about your individual behaviors and about how each of you drink.

 

It may seem like a step-backwards, but really it's a step forward to better communication and EARNING each other's trust while maintaining your individuality and outside friendships.

 

Set some boundaries and learn about yourself and about your part in a relationship. It's a difficult stepping-stone - but if you both mature and focus and open your communications it doesn't have to topple you off the relationship-bridge.

 

Time for a good talk about the relationship, where you would like it to go, how fast you would like it to get there, and openly discuss your make-or-break behavors and attitudes. If you decide to end the relationship you will both have closure and come away from it with a better sense of 'self' when going forward into new relationships. Or you will form a stronger bond and have confidence in that bond because trust will be earned and respect for each other displayed even when apart.

 

Good Luck Kevin.