He will never leave his wife for you.

[amomwhoknows]

I am an old lady and I know at least a dozen couples whose marriages ended at least in part from infidelity (including my brother). Of those couples, only one resulted in the marriage with the other person. A couple of them ended with short term (less than 2 or so years) relationships. And that was it. Most of the affairs (and in some cases one spouse was really a serial cheater) had ended before the marriage did.

 

My brother just read an article about why affairs rarely end in marriage. He shared it with me and one of the ones that really stood out to me, was that one partner in the affair generally loses much more than the other in a divorce situation. This is esp true if the other person is single already. My brother lost a ton in the divorce, far more than he was expecting to. It went beyond financial, as it included the loss of respect from his adult children and two really angry sisters. My other idiot brother had told him things would be split financially 50/50, but our state isn't equal it is equitable and that is a meaningful difference.

 

For my brother, I think the resentment of his loses plus the fact that his AP had young children was more than he could face. He ended it with her, he was sorry he ever started and he truly misses his life before the affair. (So sad, too bad you dumb one.)

 

My point in all this, is that it is very rare for an affair to result in marriage. And that second marriages/relationships are much more likely to end in divorce. It does happen, look at Paul Newman. But even in his later years, he said that his biggest regret was how he treated his first wife.

[SeasideMermaid]

Life happens when and how it happens, but I've not run across but 1 poster who was "yeah like I knew they were married and couldn't give a toss, marriage means nothing to me and I'll go after anyone I fancy because I can"

 

I bet that's because most people who have affairs don't think like that.

 

I've never met anybody who asked for such detail in how I got with my husband right off the bat. If somebody asks when they figure out I had an affair my stock answer is "it was complicated for sure" and that's that.

 

In an ideal world, if you could have started your M as 2 single people out in the open dating and not tied to anyone else, or M to someone else, which would you have chosen?

 

I would have chosen the path of least resistance had I to pick the best way to meet. With the limits of reality though the fact is we wouldn't have met if it wasn't for the affair and if we had met and we didn't have the affair we wouldn't have ended up together.

[NewLeaf512]

I bet that's because most people who have affairs don't think like that.

 

I've never met anybody who asked for such detail in how I got with my husband right off the bat. If somebody asks when they figure out I had an affair my stock answer is "it was complicated for sure" and that's that.

 

 

 

I would have chosen the path of least resistance had I to pick the best way to meet. With the limits of reality though the fact is we wouldn't have met if it wasn't for the affair and if we had met and we didn't have the affair we wouldn't have ended up together.

 

 

That's my point. Most people who have A don't think like that because they don't set out to do it.

[goodyblue]

GI, maybe you were lucky but IME blackmail does not work. I just made him crazy. He would pull his hair and cry.

 

What in the world does this even mean? Having a timeline of what YOU can handle, being prepared to walk, is certainly not blackmail. It is self care. I also had a timeline and watched for progress. It is not about what you are trying to make him do, it is about what you are willing to do. Very big distinction.

 

If the timeline came and went I would have moved on. If he had tried to come to me 'because I had walked' it would have been a no go. For me, it had to be a mutual understanding of what was expected and what was agreed upon. If things didn't come to fruition then I would have known our goals were not the same.

[Got it]

I understand that the strength of which it "matters" really varies widely. to keep it simple:

 

 

In an ideal world, if you could have started your M as 2 single people out in the open dating and not tied to anyone else, or M to someone else, which would you have chosen?

 

You know NL, I have asked myself that. Having gone through the affair together, separation, dday, divorce, etc. you see the other person in the most stressful times with all of that. We fully saw each other's coping mechanisms (at their best and worst), them in highly stressful situations, and really had to have a high level of communication and team work to get through it and keep "coming back together". What we went through with that would not be what you would normally see of the other person perhaps for years in a regular relationship. So you really got to see all their less than stellar points, their conflict avoiding, etc. That provided amazing insight, for myself, into my AP/husband.

 

So in an ideal world, just dating, not sure what life events would have come up to push us to be so exposed to each other. You really see if you can make it (or at least that was our situation). So I got to see a man who just kept fighting every day to try and do right by everyone, to try and make up for the pain, to keep taking the hits, and to keep coming back up.

 

So, yes, I guess I would prefer an ideal situation because then he, and his kids, wouldn't have experienced the pain they did and wouldn't have suffered so.

 

But what starting in an affair did was really force us to look at us/each person and really look at what needed to be improved and how we needed to be to be our best. It was a catalyst to really learn to commit and to work through issues. My problem prior was my lack of transparency and being fully me in my previous relationship - it just didn't work that way. What I have been since day one with my husband is 100% me. The freedom of it being an affair was I didn't have to pretend, I was me take it or leave it. There was no "fantasy" outside of the fantasy of being me warts and all. And that is how our marriage is. I am completely committed to being 100% honest with him and I do not conflict avoid (a topic we just recently talked about).

 

It's hard to talk about an ideal world as what is the point of looking into a dream situation? Reality is reality, there is no turning back the clock, and we can only go forward. Going forward? No, I would not be in an affair again (WAAAYYYY too much energy! Something we have both said), I did it for him, to be with him. I have learned even more about what I want, what I will compromise on, and what I won't. Actually, having been married twice now, I don't see myself marrying again. I am financially very comfortable, have a great family and friends network, etc. I spent some time alone and really enjoyed it and the freedom. I LOVE my marriage but if we ended (God forbid), I think I would enjoy my time alone again.

 

Sorry not a straight answer as I can't suss out a straight yes or no in my mind. Sorry to be a pain.

[Got it]

What in the world does this even mean? Having a timeline of what YOU can handle, being prepared to walk, is certainly not blackmail. It is self care. I also had a timeline and watched for progress. It is not about what you are trying to make him do, it is about what you are willing to do. Very big distinction.

 

If the timeline came and went I would have moved on. If he had tried to come to me 'because I had walked' it would have been a no go. For me, it had to be a mutual understanding of what was expected and what was agreed upon. If things didn't come to fruition then I would have known our goals were not the same.

 

I agree, not sure how giving perimeters is even in the same ballpark as blackmail as blackmail usually entails some sort of exposure/punishment if said request isn't granted. I guess me walking is the punishment thusly blackmail?

 

But it wasn't like that. We both agreed to a timeline and while I fully supported him making his own decisions, and honestly knew how hard leaving would be and probably expected him to stay more than go, I still had to have an end date in mind for my own peace of mind and roadmap for myself. We have to be our own best advocates and I knew myself well enough a year was all I could comfortably give. I did not want to get into nagging, whining, PLEADING, begging. I wanted him to leave because he wanted to leave and repeatedly said he should not leave for me (I did not leave for him). And if there was an iota of feelings for his (ex) wife than he needed to immediately reconnect and see if he could grow it. I was more than well aware of two people who stay together even when they are seemingly dysfunctional but something keeps them coming back (my parents). So honestly expected him to take that road. When she started paying attention to him after she found out, something he spoke of wanting prior, I fully expected that to be the catalyst to push him to want to give it one more shot.

 

But in my husband's case, her affair, and lack of remorse really was the death knell for his feelings. How she treated him tied to it, and afterwards, was too much for him to get over. He was staying for the kids. And it was only cemented in how she was during the affair and actions tied to it. I think there are some extra layers when both are "madhatters" and some complexity tied to it.

[NewLeaf512]

You know NL, I have asked myself that. Having gone through the affair together, separation, dday, divorce, etc. you see the other person in the most stressful times with all of that. We fully saw each other's coping mechanisms (at their best and worst), them in highly stressful situations, and really had to have a high level of communication and team work to get through it and keep "coming back together". What we went through with that would not be what you would normally see of the other person perhaps for years in a regular relationship. So you really got to see all their less than stellar points, their conflict avoiding, etc. That provided amazing insight, for myself, into my AP/husband.

 

So in an ideal world, just dating, not sure what life events would have come up to push us to be so exposed to each other. You really see if you can make it (or at least that was our situation). So I got to see a man who just kept fighting every day to try and do right by everyone, to try and make up for the pain, to keep taking the hits, and to keep coming back up.

 

So, yes, I guess I would prefer an ideal situation because then he, and his kids, wouldn't have experienced the pain they did and wouldn't have suffered so.

 

But what starting in an affair did was really force us to look at us/each person and really look at what needed to be improved and how we needed to be to be our best. It was a catalyst to really learn to commit and to work through issues. My problem prior was my lack of transparency and being fully me in my previous relationship - it just didn't work that way. What I have been since day one with my husband is 100% me. The freedom of it being an affair was I didn't have to pretend, I was me take it or leave it. There was no "fantasy" outside of the fantasy of being me warts and all. And that is how our marriage is. I am completely committed to being 100% honest with him and I do not conflict avoid (a topic we just recently talked about).

 

It's hard to talk about an ideal world as what is the point of looking into a dream situation? Reality is reality, there is no turning back the clock, and we can only go forward. Going forward? No, I would not be in an affair again (WAAAYYYY too much energy! Something we have both said), I did it for him, to be with him. I have learned even more about what I want, what I will compromise on, and what I won't. Actually, having been married twice now, I don't see myself marrying again. I am financially very comfortable, have a great family and friends network, etc. I spent some time alone and really enjoyed it and the freedom. I LOVE my marriage but if we ended (God forbid), I think I would enjoy my time alone again.

 

Sorry not a straight answer as I can't suss out a straight yes or no in my mind. Sorry to be a pain.

 

 

Got It, I completely understand the above on many levels. Thank you for taking the time to think about it and respond so completely. Obviously the OP had a totally different experience and instead of making her stronger, almost destroyed her. I think there is another topic worth exploring in your response and to avoid hijacking I will create a new thread.

 

 

OP I hope you are still recovering the best you can, and let us know how you are.

[goodyblue]

I agree, not sure how giving perimeters is even in the same ballpark as blackmail as blackmail usually entails some sort of exposure/punishment if said request isn't granted. I guess me walking is the punishment thusly blackmail?

 

But it wasn't like that. We both agreed to a timeline and while I fully supported him making his own decisions, and honestly knew how hard leaving would be and probably expected him to stay more than go, I still had to have an end date in mind for my own peace of mind and roadmap for myself. We have to be our own best advocates and I knew myself well enough a year was all I could comfortably give. I did not want to get into nagging, whining, PLEADING, begging. I wanted him to leave because he wanted to leave and repeatedly said he should not leave for me (I did not leave for him). And if there was an iota of feelings for his (ex) wife than he needed to immediately reconnect and see if he could grow it. I was more than well aware of two people who stay together even when they are seemingly dysfunctional but something keeps them coming back (my parents). So honestly expected him to take that road. When she started paying attention to him after she found out, something he spoke of wanting prior, I fully expected that to be the catalyst to push him to want to give it one more shot.

 

But in my husband's case, her affair, and lack of remorse really was the death knell for his feelings. How she treated him tied to it, and afterwards, was too much for him to get over. He was staying for the kids. And it was only cemented in how she was during the affair and actions tied to it. I think there are some extra layers when both are "madhatters" and some complexity tied to it.

 

I could not have said this better myself. This sounds a lot like us.

Edited September 18, 2015 by goodyblue

[cocorico]

Perhaps it's just a cultural thing here that when friends etc find out you are dating someone new or have a new partner (especially for us older people) a common theme is "It's nice to meet you (insert new person's name here) So, How did you two meet?" It's not meant to be nosey, more conversational.

 

H and I are from different countries, so when we meet new people we are often asked that. We tell them the context that we met, that it was LDR for a few years while we sorted our lives out - including his D - and then finally got together FT, and we've been M for X no of years now.

 

So yes, we are open about it having started as an A. No, we've never had any adverse responses to that (apart from on LS). Mostly, the response is, wow, a story of love triumphing over adversity, how charming...

[Furious]

I understand the title may cause distress. When I was the other woman, I avoided postings like this because I didn't want to face up to the truth. I would read postings online from people who had been the 'other woman', warning readers that they would be left broken hearted and that the man would never leave his wife....but I used to think, 'poor you! My circumstances are different to yours! This guy really does love me. We are making plans for our future together! He is DEFINITELY going to leave his wife for me!'. I was 100 percent sure of it. But, the fact is, he will never leave his wife for you. The man I had an affair with did not leave. Of course he didn't.

 

I really want to get my story out there to warn others about these men. I got so ill from the whole experience that I suffered a complete mental break down and needed treatment. I am now with the most amazing man and we are planning marriage and children, however, even now - 2 years on from the affair - I am still 'not right' and still needing treatment (therapy). I don't want this to happen to anyone else. I know this is hard but please read my experience and make the decision to get out. You have a choice.

 

I casually dated a man for two years. I was single. He told me he was single. I wasn't looking for anything heavy and neither was he. After two years of casually dating, our relationship began to change. We started to spend more time together and noticed more and more feelings developing. We started seriously dating for around three months - and this was when I found out he was married. Yes. I know. I should be known. All the signs were there....sudden quiet spells or lack of communication. I found out he was married by finding his wedding pictures online. When I found the pictures, I immediately contacted him and ended our relationship. I told him that I didn't need to see a married man as I was more than capable of attracting my own man. And...that was true. I am a good looking woman, very active and fit, in a professional role and with regular offers from men. I would not have described myself as insecure and desperate for a man. However, his response to me ending it was all the things you have no doubt already heard:

 

We don't have sex. We are married but more like friends.

There is nothing between us, we live separate lives.

She also talks about separating.

Please stay with me. I will leave her but I need time.

Please wait for me and we can have our life together.

I love you.

I would give it all up for you. Just you see! I am going to leave her for you.

She has mental problems and is physically ill so I have to be around to care for her.

 

So being the confident, desired, intelligent woman I am, what did I do? I said, 'OK. I'll wait.' I'm not usually one for self loathing but that was pathetic. I don't know what I was thinking. I look back and want to scream at myself, 'RUN'.

 

So. Over the next 9 months, I did wait for him. I would see him a couple of times a week. We would go out together. He'd stay over. We'd do all the things a normal couple would do. When I would ask for progress updates, he'd say, 'things are in place. I know I have to leave her for you. I'm just scared of hurting her but I know I have to do this and I will'. All the while, I was slowly getting ill. I didn't realise it...but I was on the way to suffering the most horrific mental torture I have ever experienced.

 

Around 4 months into waiting, I lost it with him and said...unless you leave your wife this week, it's over. Of course - when the week was over he was still there and so I cut off all contact with him and was subject to flowers delivered to my office, jewellery delivered to my home. New clothes - persistent begging. Guilt provoking texts and emails telling me he can't live without me and that he was going to leave his wife. I caved in and took him back. Unfortunately, this turned into a regular cycle....I would threaten to leave. He would beg me to take him back. I would. And every time I did, this reinforced to him that he controlled me and that, when I did leave him, I would always go back. On one occasions, he told me that tonight was the night and that he was ending it with her. I told him to text me when it was done. At 7pm, I text him to ask for an update and he sent me a huge text back. Immediately. So....it had been a text that he had preplanned and just needed to press 'send' on. He even packed his car full of his own stuff once and turned up at my house - this in an effort to convince me that he had finished it with his wife and was slowly packing his stuff. However....he then went home to his wife the next day! And what did I do? I believed all his excuses and went along with them. So, as every married man who is having an affair does, he really did have the best of both worlds. He had his comfortable life with his wife, his reputation as a good husband, a wife who did everything for him and also his younger woman on the side who he could visit and use for sex.

 

I told him once that I was going to stop giving him sex so it would prove to me that he was with me for reasons other than that. He agreed with that...but I can see now he was just playing the game.

 

After 9 months of him convincing me he was going to leave his wife for me, I found out that he had gone on holiday with his wife. I suffered a huge panic attack at work and was sent home. It was then that I had hit rock bottom. I had never felt so ill in my life. I couldn't eat and lost a lot of weight. Everyone was worried about me. I am usually the 'cheer leader' at work but could not even manage a slight smile for anyone. I felt physically sick constantly and could not sleep. I became a shadow of the woman I was. My GP could not believe it when I went to see him (he has been my GP for years) and referred me to psychological services and I was given urgent therapy. All the while, this man continued to text me and email me whilst he was on holiday with his wife, telling me he had only agreed to go with her as he felt under pressure to do so. In the days that followed, he bombarded me with messages begging me not to leave him. I felt hopeless and trapped as, previously, I would always take him back. I couldn't understand why I did so. It was like an addiction. This time, though, I worked with a therapist and she gave me the tools and strength to put a stop to this for good. I ended up telling him that I was not going to see him any more which increased the begging communications and he even threatened to kill himself. I told him that he was going to pay for my private therapy fees (he did) and that, should he contact me again I would call the police and tell his wife.

 

That put a stop to it. I never heard off him again.

 

Please. You have to believe me. He will NEVER leave his wife for you. I know how hard it is to read that but I really, really need you to believe me. You are capable of attracting your own, single man. He is using you. Please do not get to the point where I was - suicidal and panic attacks. I am now with an amazing man - I look back at the man I had an affair with and I have no idea how I even found him attractive.

 

Please read this account over and over again until it sinks in. Get away. RUN.

 

He will never, ever leave his wife for you.

 

 

Your story is helpful and offering good advice for women who are caught in an affair. The great majority of ow are vulnerable and victims of being strung

along.

 

You found happiness and love with an single man, no lies, no crumbs, and you are sincere.

 

I care about people, I care that no one should put a low value on their worth. I do not endorse liars, people who give a blurred version of truth and falsely represent themselves.

 

The truth, even though harsh, is more helpful than being given false hope.

[RainDown]

These "he'll never leave his wife for you" threads are interesting because that hasn't been my experience at all. I've seen similar sentiment on many boards, not just this one, and I wonder why I had the opposite problem - which was married men leaving their wives whilst in a relationship with me, even when I didn't want them to. I didn't want to be in an exclusive relationship with anyone, married or single. I didn't want to live with a man and I didn't want to marry one either (still don't). Some MM were happy with that arrangement, but others did not like that I had a life completely outside of them - even though they themselves had a life completely outside of me. Even though they were married, they wanted me to be exclusive. Which was ridiculous in my mind. They willingly chose to be in a cage, unable to go away for a weekend with me, unable to spend the night with me, unable to go where I wanted to go. It was never difficult for me to find a companion who could.

 

Anyway, some of them left their wives anyway apparently thinking that if they were suddenly free that I would suddenly be willing to be exclusive. I wasn't. I still led my life exactly the way I always had - if I was free to see them, fine. If I wasn't free to see them, I didn't. I was always crystal clear that their change in marital status changed nothing for me. But they did it anyway only to find I was dead serious. I still had a life outside them and that wasn't going to change. Only in my last affair was I motivated to exclusively commit to him after he left his wife, which lasted a couple of years after his divorce. But I still could not get to the moving in/getting married scenario even though I was completely faithful to him and had no interest in anyone but him. I just couldn't get past that point and the relationship just died from that.

 

But back to the point that "they never leave" I'm starting to wonder if it's not more about the dynamic between MM/OW than it is about the MM himself. It seems that when they have the OW "where they want them", exclusive to them, waiting for them, having no life outside of them, they just coast along having two faithful women at their ready. But when OW (in my experience) lives her own life, with relationships outside the affair - as MM does with his wife - the dynamic is suddenly very different and seems to move many of them to action. I don't fully understand the psychodynamics behind that behavior; maybe the chase? Maybe possession? Maybe control over OW's sexuality? Maybe intolerance to another man being inside OW?

 

I don't know, but I find it very interesting that MM jump out of a marriage for an unavailable OW (like me), but stay with their wives when OW is at their beck and call.

 

I have no point, really. Just musing.

[ladydesigner]

Either they are going to leave their wife or they aren't. I don't think there is a one size assessment on this. I think there are plenty of relationships that start as A's and end in M. I think there are a lot of A's that end with the OW being hurt. There are probably A marriages that don't make it for whatever reason.

 

I think the main thing should be to never accept less than you are worth and I think this goes for both OW and BS's because it seems most of the time we are both on the other side of the same man and similar treatment.

[RainDown]

Either they are going to leave their wife or they aren't. I don't think there is a one size assessment on this. I think there are plenty of relationships that start as A's and end in M. I think there are a lot of A's that end with the OW being hurt. There are probably A marriages that don't make it for whatever reason.

 

I think the main thing should be to never accept less than you are worth and I think this goes for both OW and BS's because it seems most of the time we are both on the other side of the same man and similar treatment.

 

Only if we choose to be. We (OW or BS) make a choice to place a man at the center of our lives; we don't have to do that. Life is the cake - men are the icing on top, in my opinion. Men either fit the path one wants one's life to take, or they don't. When they don't fit, it's up to us to get rid of them and find someone who does fit, if that is our desire. We are not victims of these guys unless we choose to be.

[ladydesigner]

Only if we choose to be. We (OW or BS) make a choice to place a man at the center of our lives; we don't have to do that. Life is the cake - men are the icing on top, in my opinion. Men either fit the path one wants one's life to take, or they don't. When they don't fit, it's up to us to get rid of them and find someone who does fit, if that is our desire. We are not victims of these guys unless we choose to be.

 

Very true!

[cocorico]

 

It seems that when they have the OW "where they want them", exclusive to them, waiting for them, having no life outside of them, they just coast along having two faithful women at their ready. But when OW (in my experience) lives her own life, with relationships outside the affair - as MM does with his wife - the dynamic is suddenly very different and seems to move many of them to action. I don't fully understand the psychodynamics behind that behavior; maybe the chase? Maybe possession? Maybe control over OW's sexuality? Maybe intolerance to another man being inside OW?

 

I don't know, but I find it very interesting that MM jump out of a marriage for an unavailable OW (like me), but stay with their wives when OW is at their beck and call.

 

I think there is some truth to this. It seems that, for fOWs on LS who are now M to their fMM, being their own women and not just hanging about at the MM's convenience was something most (or all) have in common.

 

Which is not to say that it's a sufficient condition - I'm sure many OW might claim that they, too, called the shots and drew the boundaries, but their MMs didnt leave - but it does seem to be a necessary one.

[NewLeaf512]

I think there is some truth to this. It seems that, for fOWs on LS who are now M to their fMM, being their own women and not just hanging about at the MM's convenience was something most (or all) have in common.

 

Which is not to say that it's a sufficient condition - I'm sure many OW might claim that they, too, called the shots and drew the boundaries, but their MMs didnt leave - but it does seem to be a necessary one.

 

I think the thrill of the chase and then the (win) kill is inherent in most men.

[Popsicle]

These "he'll never leave his wife for you" threads are interesting because that hasn't been my experience at all. I've seen similar sentiment on many boards, not just this one, and I wonder why I had the opposite problem - which was married men leaving their wives whilst in a relationship with me, even when I didn't want them to. I didn't want to be in an exclusive relationship with anyone, married or single. I didn't want to live with a man and I didn't want to marry one either (still don't). Some MM were happy with that arrangement, but others did not like that I had a life completely outside of them - even though they themselves had a life completely outside of me. Even though they were married, they wanted me to be exclusive. Which was ridiculous in my mind. They willingly chose to be in a cage, unable to go away for a weekend with me, unable to spend the night with me, unable to go where I wanted to go. It was never difficult for me to find a companion who could.

 

Anyway, some of them left their wives anyway apparently thinking that if they were suddenly free that I would suddenly be willing to be exclusive. I wasn't. I still led my life exactly the way I always had - if I was free to see them, fine. If I wasn't free to see them, I didn't. I was always crystal clear that their change in marital status changed nothing for me. But they did it anyway only to find I was dead serious. I still had a life outside them and that wasn't going to change. Only in my last affair was I motivated to exclusively commit to him after he left his wife, which lasted a couple of years after his divorce. But I still could not get to the moving in/getting married scenario even though I was completely faithful to him and had no interest in anyone but him. I just couldn't get past that point and the relationship just died from that.

 

But back to the point that "they never leave" I'm starting to wonder if it's not more about the dynamic between MM/OW than it is about the MM himself. It seems that when they have the OW "where they want them", exclusive to them, waiting for them, having no life outside of them, they just coast along having two faithful women at their ready. But when OW (in my experience) lives her own life, with relationships outside the affair - as MM does with his wife - the dynamic is suddenly very different and seems to move many of them to action. I don't fully understand the psychodynamics behind that behavior; maybe the chase? Maybe possession? Maybe control over OW's sexuality? Maybe intolerance to another man being inside OW?

 

I don't know, but I find it very interesting that MM jump out of a marriage for an unavailable OW (like me), but stay with their wives when OW is at their beck and call.

 

I have no point, really. Just musing.

 

It is entirely possible that your attitude (no pressure on him and living your life) may have had something to do with it.

 

Still, for me, I plan to stay away from married men, period. Too much trouble and it's not right to me.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Popsicle

[RainDown]

It is entirely possible that your attitude (no pressure on him and living your life) may have had something to do with it.

 

Still, for me, I plan to stay away from married men, period. Too much trouble and it's not right to me.

 

I'm one step ahead of you, sister. I haven't dated or slept with any man for over five years. I personally find all of them too much trouble, too high maintenance, and too needy - married or single. Don't get me wrong, I admire men and I think they contribute fantastic things to the world, but I absolutely love life without having to deal with one on a personal basis.

[Got it]

I really think, regardless of affair or not, the decision and then action to divorce is a major one. I have many friends/acquaintances who will talk about being unhappy in their marriage, about wanting to divorce but they never actually move towards it.

 

Having walked down the road, with a "lighter" load than others - no financial dependency, children, etc. it was still a long, hard, drawn out decision. Staying put is comfortable even when it is an unhappy one. So no matter how much someone preps for it, steels their mind for it, commits to it, many get to the edge of the cliff and just can't jump.

 

And then if you add kids to the mix, their opinion and emotions tied to it, and that will only hasten the backwards motion if they aren't also in agreement.

 

Regardless of the supposed stats on divorce, it is rarely an easy decision for anyone. So that is the mind set, if one is in an affair and thinking their AP is going to leave, should keep in mind. Even with the strongest of intentions, that free fall can scare many.

 

There is no hidden secret on how some people move on from the affair and why some don't. There are books and resources breaking down the mindset of the varying reasons why someone is in an affair, what they are trying to gain from it and (to some degree) a projection of the future but we are complex animals and there is no way to definitively known. Many people don't even understand themselves well enough to get it let alone figuring anyone else out.

 

So my best advice, if one is in an affair hoping for a divorce, really slow down. Assume it most likely won't happen, put in perimeters to see steps sooner than later that shows the person is heading in that direction (these may vary but IC would be paramount), continue to evaluate with the assumption it isn't happening and have a timeline communicated that fits best for you on how long you will give the process. Do not wait indefinitely hoping.

 

The other best advice people will give is assume it isn't going to happen, enjoy today, do not discuss a divorce and if it does let him/her show you the paperwork at the time of completion.

 

Either way, his/her divorce, marriage, obstacles is their baby to rock not yours. Do not jump through hoops playing "pick me" because it isn't about you or the spouse. It is about the current life and the unknown future life. This is what the person is evaluating and choosing between. There are no brownie points for being a matyr or a victim in the process and you can't "pay it forward" by being super accommodating. In fact that is the best way to get walked all over. Focus on your life, the AP is just icing on the cake. Do not promote them to a higher position until they have proven themselves worthy of it. And proving themselves should be a high bar to hit.

 

There are no sunshine, roses, and rainbows in affairs. It is gritty, roller coaster, and anxiety producing. My experience, even though there were amazing highs was not what gets painted by others as this skipping through the daisy scenario. It took a very raw, very intimate look at the other person and very much exposes their warts. If you are not seeing that I would advise to really start paying attention.

 

I was never in an affair to be in an affair. I have no desire to ever be in one again. I did it for him and that was the biggest gamble I have made and will ever make; the biggest concession to another human being. I know that, I own that, and knew it whether or not we continued on or not. I own every decision, both bad and good, I made during that time period and afterwards.

[Midwestmissy]

I'm a bs, so my question in relation to the original post is this: is there a part of the ap that wants to steal the mm away from the marriage? Is there a sense of competition? Of course I was completely in the dark about the affair, and the ow was also married, but I'm just curious about other ow who post here. It seems I was in a situation where the game was always on, but the only rule of the game was deny that there was a game. In my case when the truth came out, he dropped her so fast and had a huge hatred for her suddenly. I guess the game isnt as fun when a) everyone's in on it and b) a leg of the triangle (me) walks away. He was suddenly so mortified and embarrassed by her. her clothing, her crassness, her work. He threw her under the bus once people knew - and I was fine telling people what he did and who she was, so people knew.

 

According to their correspondence, he kept telling her he'd never leave his marriage, that they were just having an escape, she said she wanted to leave hers, so she upped her game and got careless. Since she was a serial cheater, she had me beat on one major thing: she never believed his words, only his actions - so when she said lets hook up and he did, she did think he would leave. She knew he was a liar and that he was sleeping with her while telling her he wasn't leaving me. She knew him being there meant he'd already left. Me on the other hand, I believed my lifelong partners words, even when his actions were coconuts and made no sense. I had faith in him and our marriage. I doubted myself and my instincts, and still feel so incredibly foolish and humiliated for not listening to the screaming in my head. Ugh.

 

Also, FYI the correct word in setting boundaries is parameter, not perimeter.

[Got it]

I'm a bs, so my question in relation to the original post is this: is there a part of the ap that wants to steal the mm away from the marriage? Is there a sense of competition? Of course I was completely in the dark about the affair, and the ow was also married, but I'm just curious about other ow who post here. It seems I was in a situation where the game was always on, but the only rule of the game was deny that there was a game. In my case when the truth came out, he dropped her so fast and had a huge hatred for her suddenly. I guess the game isnt as fun when a) everyone's in on it and b) a leg of the triangle (me) walks away. He was suddenly so mortified and embarrassed by her. her clothing, her crassness, her work. He threw her under the bus once people knew - and I was fine telling people what he did and who she was, so people knew.

 

According to their correspondence, he kept telling her he'd never leave his marriage, that they were just having an escape, she said she wanted to leave hers, so she upped her game and got careless. Since she was a serial cheater, she had me beat on one major thing: she never believed his words, only his actions - so when she said lets hook up and he did, she did think he would leave. She knew he was a liar and that he was sleeping with her while telling her he wasn't leaving me. She knew him being there meant he'd already left. Me on the other hand, I believed my lifelong partners words, even when his actions were coconuts and made no sense. I had faith in him and our marriage. I doubted myself and my instincts, and still feel so incredibly foolish and humiliated for not listening to the screaming in my head. Ugh.

 

Also, FYI the correct word in setting boundaries is parameter, not perimeter.

 

Midwest, thank you, autocorrect will do that.

 

What the general OW says doesn't matter does it? It depends on the players involved in each situation. Speaking for myself, no there was never a competition. Not sure if it makes a difference but she was a non-entity in our relationship/affair. I saw it as a decision between what lives he wanted, not about the two women per say. You can't "steal" someone, as that means taking against their wishes. If the married person goes it is of their own free will and by their choice. They are not victims or powerless agents in it.

 

Fair warning, him turning on her like that is a classic case of trying to deflect the onus from him. It is both of you against her and so you aren't focused on him. His hatred, disgust, etc. should really be meted against himself. She should be a non entity if he truly feels nothing. Hate is still a very strong emotion. Just my two cents and a therapist should be able to help dig into that.

[Midwestmissy]

I agree about the hatred - but it was only when everything hit the fan. He reacted like a toddler and deflected. He never blamed her for the affair btw, he owned it from day one. I think he preferred to think he was in control of the whole thing than even consider that he'd been played by her. He thought of himself as above her intellectually, did not want to think they were both the same. Which of course they were. They were each manipulating so many people in order to make the affair work. But neither wanted to admit he/she had been played. To admit that is to have lost the game. It's head exploding really because so much was lost and so many were hurt - for what just 6 months of 2 effed up people effing, in the end.

 

And no one can make anyone leave a marriage it's true. No one can be lured by a minx, for sure there's a willingness on both parts. I don't think she was against me, she was just for the win, we didn't know each other. But I'll tell you that his treatment of me during and immediately after the affair, and her nuttiness and inability to move on (in her case, I really think it was about winning him then moving on after a bit, I believe that's what she's done in the past) still has me on the fence about whether or not I can stay. The affair ended 2 years ago, she was still calling 3 months ago (she's blocked, but calls from different numbers, I've been in the car when he's answered these). The truth came out in the last year. He's remorseful, I'm the one with the reconciliation issues. If I weren't, I wouldn't lurk on this forum, right? My h us not on any forums, just in heavy if. No question, it's not healthy for me, and I do like to get inside other ow heads just to scratch an itch and procrastinate in my day.

[Midwestmissy]

*not on any forums, just in heavy IC.

[Popsicle]

I really think, regardless of affair or not, the decision and then action to divorce is a major one. I have many friends/acquaintances who will talk about being unhappy in their marriage, about wanting to divorce but they never actually move towards it.

 

Having walked down the road, with a "lighter" load than others - no financial dependency, children, etc. it was still a long, hard, drawn out decision. Staying put is comfortable even when it is an unhappy one. So no matter how much someone preps for it, steels their mind for it, commits to it, many get to the edge of the cliff and just can't jump.

 

And then if you add kids to the mix, their opinion and emotions tied to it, and that will only hasten the backwards motion if they aren't also in agreement.

 

Regardless of the supposed stats on divorce, it is rarely an easy decision for anyone. So that is the mind set, if one is in an affair and thinking their AP is going to leave, should keep in mind. Even with the strongest of intentions, that free fall can scare many.

 

There is no hidden secret on how some people move on from the affair and why some don't. There are books and resources breaking down the mindset of the varying reasons why someone is in an affair, what they are trying to gain from it and (to some degree) a projection of the future but we are complex animals and there is no way to definitively known. Many people don't even understand themselves well enough to get it let alone figuring anyone else out.

 

So my best advice, if one is in an affair hoping for a divorce, really slow down. Assume it most likely won't happen, put in perimeters to see steps sooner than later that shows the person is heading in that direction (these may vary but IC would be paramount), continue to evaluate with the assumption it isn't happening and have a timeline communicated that fits best for you on how long you will give the process. Do not wait indefinitely hoping.

 

The other best advice people will give is assume it isn't going to happen, enjoy today, do not discuss a divorce and if it does let him/her show you the paperwork at the time of completion.

 

Either way, his/her divorce, marriage, obstacles is their baby to rock not yours. Do not jump through hoops playing "pick me" because it isn't about you or the spouse. It is about the current life and the unknown future life. This is what the person is evaluating and choosing between. There are no brownie points for being a matyr or a victim in the process and you can't "pay it forward" by being super accommodating. In fact that is the best way to get walked all over. Focus on your life, the AP is just icing on the cake. Do not promote them to a higher position until they have proven themselves worthy of it. And proving themselves should be a high bar to hit.

 

There are no sunshine, roses, and rainbows in affairs. It is gritty, roller coaster, and anxiety producing. My experience, even though there were amazing highs was not what gets painted by others as this skipping through the daisy scenario. It took a very raw, very intimate look at the other person and very much exposes their warts. If you are not seeing that I would advise to really start paying attention.

 

I was never in an affair to be in an affair. I have no desire to ever be in one again. I did it for him and that was the biggest gamble I have made and will ever make; the biggest concession to another human being. I know that, I own that, and knew it whether or not we continued on or not. I own every decision, both bad and good, I made during that time period and afterwards.

 

 

Excellent post, Got it. Beautifully said.

[Got it]

I agree about the hatred - but it was only when everything hit the fan. He reacted like a toddler and deflected. He never blamed her for the affair btw, he owned it from day one. I think he preferred to think he was in control of the whole thing than even consider that he'd been played by her. He thought of himself as above her intellectually, did not want to think they were both the same. Which of course they were. They were each manipulating so many people in order to make the affair work. But neither wanted to admit he/she had been played. To admit that is to have lost the game. It's head exploding really because so much was lost and so many were hurt - for what just 6 months of 2 effed up people effing, in the end.

 

And no one can make anyone leave a marriage it's true. No one can be lured by a minx, for sure there's a willingness on both parts. I don't think she was against me, she was just for the win, we didn't know each other. But I'll tell you that his treatment of me during and immediately after the affair, and her nuttiness and inability to move on (in her case, I really think it was about winning him then moving on after a bit, I believe that's what she's done in the past) still has me on the fence about whether or not I can stay. The affair ended 2 years ago, she was still calling 3 months ago (she's blocked, but calls from different numbers, I've been in the car when he's answered these). The truth came out in the last year. He's remorseful, I'm the one with the reconciliation issues. If I weren't, I wouldn't lurk on this forum, right? My h us not on any forums, just in heavy if. No question, it's not healthy for me, and I do like to get inside other ow heads just to scratch an itch and procrastinate in my day.

 

Are you two in MC? Reconciliation is really your call, your gift to him. His ego seems to be a major issue which he needs to look into. He needs to figure out why he felt that the could manipulate, why he felt he was entitled, etc. How will he prevent this from happening again? Etc. Why is it hard for him to own that he saw it as a game and losing it was not a given?

 

There are legal actions you can take against her so may want to follow up and see what recourse you have there. Why is he answering the calls? Are you sure he hasn't continued to be in contact with her? Have discussed a restraining order? Or a cease and desist letter?