He will never leave his wife for you.

[Midwestmissy]

Luckily it's not very dramatic although I appreciate your concern. Yes we are in mc, he's in ic. She's no threat to me at all. We moved to another country since all this went down - the move was planned before. Maybe she wanted to move away with him. Not sure. So she's far. He hangs up on her, he hasn't engaged at all. I have access to everything. The phones are always out, the kids and I can see all his stuff. She's not harassing, her career went down the tubes after the disclosure of the affair, I think it was a last straw In her work reputation, which is therapy and mental health, ironically. My h was her superior - it was a family business and my mother in law wouldn't let him leave, so a package was set up for her to quietly resign. She was furious, didn't want to leave, not sure how her husband was ok with this, but whatever. She didn't get a lawyer, she signed and left. Shes been calling all her former co workers to get intel, and she took a huge step back in her career, so I think she's licking her wounds. Shes 50, doing the work she did at 30. People always tell him when they've heard from her, she seems to do big sweeps of calls at once. They're all social workers and can't shut up, lol. I think this is her first time having fallout from an affair, so she had a pretty good run.

 

Like my husband, and like a lot of people who act entitled, her sense of self is out of whack with how she's perceived by others. My h was conflict avoidant during his affair, smug, arrogant and a total d**k. He thought he had convinced the world that he had it all going on, but the people who loved him and cared about him thought he was acting like a d**k. Except for the mow who told him he was awesome as he made bad decisions and got in big messes. It was a lot easier to buy her line than deal with his issues. Like, me for example, I can pay that huge pile of bills and deal with filing papers and getting the kids schedules organized or I can eat potato chips and binge watch game of thrones. Then when everyone gets home tonight, and I feel ****ty for having accomplished nothing, I'll rage at the family and storm out, pretending that I'm not lazy just overwhelmed and unappreciated. It's a very immature reaction to f**king up - not owning it at all.

 

My h isn't the issue - he's doing anything and everything to keep this marriage together. I don't feel proud of him or our marriage anymore. Im embarrassed and ashamed that he treated me this way. Sometimes I wish he had left me, but being the conflict avoider that he is, if I leave, he won't look the bad guy, I'll be the bitter wife who couldn't get over it even though he was sorry. This is how I think now, since my intuition got so scrambled.

 

So no, he's not gone underground with her.

[Got it]

Luckily it's not very dramatic although I appreciate your concern. Yes we are in mc, he's in ic. She's no threat to me at all. We moved to another country since all this went down - the move was planned before. Maybe she wanted to move away with him. Not sure. So she's far. He hangs up on her, he hasn't engaged at all. I have access to everything. The phones are always out, the kids and I can see all his stuff. She's not harassing, her career went down the tubes after the disclosure of the affair, I think it was a last straw In her work reputation, which is therapy and mental health, ironically. My h was her superior - it was a family business and my mother in law wouldn't let him leave, so a package was set up for her to quietly resign. She was furious, didn't want to leave, not sure how her husband was ok with this, but whatever. She didn't get a lawyer, she signed and left. Shes been calling all her former co workers to get intel, and she took a huge step back in her career, so I think she's licking her wounds. Shes 50, doing the work she did at 30. People always tell him when they've heard from her, she seems to do big sweeps of calls at once. They're all social workers and can't shut up, lol. I think this is her first time having fallout from an affair, so she had a pretty good run.

 

Like my husband, and like a lot of people who act entitled, her sense of self is out of whack with how she's perceived by others. My h was conflict avoidant during his affair, smug, arrogant and a total d**k. He thought he had convinced the world that he had it all going on, but the people who loved him and cared about him thought he was acting like a d**k. Except for the mow who told him he was awesome as he made bad decisions and got in big messes. It was a lot easier to buy her line than deal with his issues. Like, me for example, I can pay that huge pile of bills and deal with filing papers and getting the kids schedules organized or I can eat potato chips and binge watch game of thrones. Then when everyone gets home tonight, and I feel ****ty for having accomplished nothing, I'll rage at the family and storm out, pretending that I'm not lazy just overwhelmed and unappreciated. It's a very immature reaction to f**king up - not owning it at all.

 

My h isn't the issue - he's doing anything and everything to keep this marriage together. I don't feel proud of him or our marriage anymore. Im embarrassed and ashamed that he treated me this way. Sometimes I wish he had left me, but being the conflict avoider that he is, if I leave, he won't look the bad guy, I'll be the bitter wife who couldn't get over it even though he was sorry. This is how I think now, since my intuition got so scrambled.

 

So no, he's not gone underground with her.

 

Midwest, maybe we can take this to another thread? I just wanted to give ((((()))))) big hug to you. And wanted to say you aren't the bitter wife and if you left you would have left for good reason and only your perspective is the important one. What he thinks, others thinks, don't matter.

 

I am sorry for your pain and sorry that you are struggling and wanted to give you a big hug and tell you I am sure you are doing a much job than you may think you are and aren't seen by others the way you are perceiving yourself. (((((midwest))))))

[Popsicle]

I'm one step ahead of you, sister. I haven't dated or slept with any man for over five years. I personally find all of them too much trouble, too high maintenance, and too needy - married or single. Don't get me wrong, I admire men and I think they contribute fantastic things to the world, but I absolutely love life without having to deal with one on a personal basis.

 

Ahh I see. Well I'm not ready to give up on men I'll just stay away from married men.

[cocorico]

To return to topic - sometimes they leave, sometimes they don't.

 

If you don't want them to leave, and they don't, then as long as you're getting the R you want, you're good.

 

If you don't want them to leave, and they do - that's their choice, and you're not obliged to "try to make it work" with them if it's not what you want.

 

If you want them to leave, and they don't - if what you're getting is good enough for you regardless, and you'd rather have a little than none of him, you're good - until resentment makes the little you get not enough. Then end it.

 

If you want them to leave, and they do - you're still not obliged to "make it work" if, down the line, it really isn't what you want, after all. It was still their choice to leave - the took a chance (as did you) but you are not obligated to stay in a R that doesn't work for you.

[goodyblue]

To return to topic - sometimes they leave, sometimes they don't.

 

If you don't want them to leave, and they don't, then as long as you're getting the R you want, you're good.

 

If you don't want them to leave, and they do - that's their choice, and you're not obliged to "try to make it work" with them if it's not what you want.

 

If you want them to leave, and they don't - if what you're getting is good enough for you regardless, and you'd rather have a little than none of him, you're good - until resentment makes the little you get not enough. Then end it.

 

If you want them to leave, and they do - you're still not obliged to "make it work" if, down the line, it really isn't what you want, after all. It was still their choice to leave - the took a chance (as did you) but you are not obligated to stay in a R that doesn't work for you.

 

I always wonder how often it happens that mm leaves, goes with ow and once he realizes they are not a good match, stays anyway to save face...

[cocorico]

I always wonder how often it happens that mm leaves, goes with ow and once he realizes they are not a good match, stays anyway to save face...

 

I can't recall any such stories (other than second-hand claims by xBW who were dumped for fOW, posting about how their xWH keeps begging them to try again, because the fOW is <insert wild allegation here>. ) Most likely though, there are some out there. Some guy so desperate to get out of a M he grabbed the first ride out he could, put a ring on it, and then later discovered that his eagerness to escape his M blinded himself to aspects of his fOW that weren't such a good fit, for example.

 

But there have been some fOW who have M their fMM (or moved in together, or whatever) who have later posted about it not working out, because of issues with the MM. These stories pop up from time to time on these boards, sometimes many years later, sometimes quite soon after moving in together.

 

Not all Rs work out in the long term. Expecting all As to work out is naive - why should their success rate be so radically different to any of the their R? She me will, some won't. There are no stats - just as their are no stats for how many dating Rs turn into M, or how many online Rs, or how many high school sweetheart Rs... You take your chance, and cut your losses when it stops giving you what you want.

[goodyblue]

I can't recall any such stories (other than second-hand claims by xBW who were dumped for fOW, posting about how their xWH keeps begging them to try again, because the fOW is <insert wild allegation here>. ) Most likely though, there are some out there. Some guy so desperate to get out of a M he grabbed the first ride out he could, put a ring on it, and then later discovered that his eagerness to escape his M blinded himself to aspects of his fOW that weren't such a good fit, for example.

 

But there have been some fOW who have M their fMM (or moved in together, or whatever) who have later posted about it not working out, because of issues with the MM. These stories pop up from time to time on these boards, sometimes many years later, sometimes quite soon after moving in together.

 

Not all Rs work out in the long term. Expecting all As to work out is naive - why should their success rate be so radically different to any of the their R? She me will, some won't. There are no stats - just as their are no stats for how many dating Rs turn into M, or how many online Rs, or how many high school sweetheart Rs... You take your chance, and cut your losses when it stops giving you what you want.

 

I have actually never really seen it, that is why I asked. I Also agree with expecting them all to work out, certainly they won't. I would hope that If a person realizes it was a mistake they wouldn't stay in a r just because they risked it all to try.

[cocorico]

I have actually never really seen it, that is why I asked. I Also agree with expecting them all to work out, certainly they won't. I would hope that If a person realizes it was a mistake they wouldn't stay in a r just because they risked it all to try.

 

Exactly!

 

If you managed to walk away from a decades-long M, with kids and extended family and mortgage and all kinds of complications, to set up home with your fOW, surely you have the wherewithal to walk away from that R and f it's not working out as you'd hoped? Makes no sense to me that someone would have the courage and emotional resources to do the former, but would turn into some weak-willed wuss when having to contemplate the latter.

 

But I guess it makes a nice story.

[Dancewithme]

Granted, the title of this thread "he will never leave his wife for you", and the cautionary tale told by the OP are a little absolute. Of course, there are affairs that evolve into a HEA for the OW and MM. But, don't get away from the true message of this thread. An affair is wrong. The MM is already married. He is not available for you. That M may not be all unicorns and rainbows, but it is a M. You are setting yourself up for possible heartache and drama if you expect otherwise.and why do you want your happiness to come at the expense of someone else's heartache?

 

Having a side relationship with someone who is already in a committed relationship speaks to who you think you are, OWs out there. To use the OP's words, "you are capable of attracting your own single man". If you don't think you're capable, then here your work begins. Why should you settle for the crumbs someone else deigns to hand you at their convenience? You are a human being, not a shameful secret. You deserve better.

 

We can discuss the stats of MM leaving for their OW, or what percentage of A marriages succeed. I'm sure there are quite a few, and I'm glad it worked out for you. But the odds are stacked against such a relationship.

 

I understand this forum is for the support of OW/OM. I am not trying to cause discord, but offer support in tough love. Listen to the message of the OP.

[minimariah]

I always wonder how often it happens that mm leaves, goes with ow and once he realizes they are not a good match, stays anyway to save face...

 

definitely a lot more than people think.

 

i know quite a few MMs who left for the OW, realized they weren't any happier or that the relationship isn't what they though it would be -- stayed with the OW because the pattern (of not leaving a bad relationship unless there is a 3rd person) was never dealt with. OR had a few GOOD years and love eventually died down, relationship went south. they also stay because some want to "prove" to the others that they were RIGHT -- the pressure on the post-affair relationship is enormous so many feel that they should stick it out so they would prove that it was all "worth it" & wasn't in vain (that's the way many see it).

 

just the other day i had a convo with a man who had left his wife & 3 kids for the OW - he is expecting his 2nd kid with the OW & is absolutely miserable. he actually started to "preach" to me about never having the affair because, in the end, it's all the same. to the outside - he is perfectly happy & their relationship is more than perfect. so you really never know.

 

people usually go with two extremes - they either think that the MM doesn't love the OW and never leaves the W OR they think that leaving for the OW means happily ever after --- just because a person leaves someone else for you, it doesn't mean that you will last or be happy. i bet there are a lot more unhappy folks, they're just too embarrassed to talk about it.

Edited September 22, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

Makes no sense to me...

 

it actually makes perfect sense -- a MM (who is in a decades long bad marriage & only walks away with the help of a 3person & that kind of motivation) probably WILL repeat that same circle with another unhappy relationship if the problem isn't dealt with (it usually isn't).

 

makes me think of E. Hemingway -- went out of his relationship only with the help of his OW, married the OW, got unhappy. waited until he met another OW, left the first one for the second one, married the second one... and repeat that 5 times until his death.

 

...

that someone would have the courage and emotional resources...

 

& most importantly - MOTIVATION in the form of another lover and another relationship. if the motivation isn't there...? they won't leave.

 

you have those who have the courage & emotional resources from THEMSELVES, to walk away without any form of support (even with the OW present) -- and then you have those who suddenly develop courage & emotional resources from a 3rd party & they ONLY walk away when there is a safety net to fall back on... even just in a form of hope.

 

so the "well, if he left his marriage, kids, mortgage - he would leave the OW" doesn't make any sense -- do not underestimate the pressure that people feel and almost an obligation to make it work with the OW (for many, it is a matter of atonement for the hurt they caused).

 

sometimes, the love is there but people realize that they won't work out longterm. in my personal environment, there is one relationship between the MM&OW which lasted 23 years (marriage, kids) -- they decided to divorce, remained close friends (!) & are dating other people. they had the best time for thise 23 years and it came to an end. so yeah, a lot of different stories.

Edited September 22, 2015 by minimariah

[amomwhoknows]

I always wonder how often it happens that mm leaves, goes with ow and once he realizes they are not a good match, stays anyway to save face...

 

My brother stayed far longer than he should have. But he did eventually end it.

 

As I have said here before, while I can easily list a dozen or so marriages that ended at least in part because of cheating, only one situation resulted in marriage. Two others resulted in sort of long term relationships, but neither lasted more than a couple of years.

 

My point, I think, is that for the most part Affairs don't end in marriage because that was never the goal of at least one of the involved people. One of the things that struck me about my brother's situation was the fact that while he was in the affair, and planning his exit from my SIL and their children, he never once thought about NOT jumping right into a formal relationship with the OW. He never gave serious thought to the impact of the ages of her kids, on the life he envisioned, nor the challenges that would be presented by their age differences. He also underestimated the financial impact of divorce. and promises that he had made to his children.

 

While the divorce rate is high for second and subsequent marriages, I know that there are people unhappy in marriages who don't leave because they don't want a second (or higher) divorce. I am sure some of these relationships started in affairs, but as time passes, I am not sure that is the main reason they stay. It is the burden of being divorced again.

Edited September 22, 2015 by amomwhoknows

[ladydesigner]

My brother stayed far longer than he should have. But he did eventually end it.

 

As I have said here before, while I can easily list a dozen or so marriages that ended at least in part because of cheating, only one situation resulted in marriage. Two others resulted in sort of long term relationships, but neither lasted more than a couple of years.

 

My point, I think, is that for the most part Affairs don't end in marriage because that was never the goal of at least one of the involved people. One of the things that struck me about my brother's situation was the fact that while he was in the affair, and planning his exit from my SIL and their children, he never once thought about NOT jumping right into a formal relationship with the OW. He never gave serious thought to the impact of the ages of her kids, on the life he envisioned, nor the challenges that would be presented by their age differences. He also underestimated the financial impact of divorce. and promises that he had made to his children.

 

While the divorce rate is high for second and subsequent marriages, I know that there are people unhappy in marriages who don't leave because they don't want a second (or higher) divorce. I am sure some of these relationships started in affairs, but as time passes, I am not sure that is the main reason they stay. It is the burden of being divorced again.

 

Exactly. My parents are AP's that left their M's immediately for each other. My mom went on to have 3 more A's. My father has told me that the reason for not leaving was that he did not want to break up another family,(he had a son with his first wife) go through another D. They are still married.

[goodyblue]

My brother stayed far longer than he should have. But he did eventually end it.

 

As I have said here before, while I can easily list a dozen or so marriages that ended at least in part because of cheating, only one situation resulted in marriage. Two others resulted in sort of long term relationships, but neither lasted more than a couple of years.

 

My point, I think, is that for the most part Affairs don't end in marriage because that was never the goal of at least one of the involved people. One of the things that struck me about my brother's situation was the fact that while he was in the affair, and planning his exit from my SIL and their children, he never once thought about NOT jumping right into a formal relationship with the OW. He never gave serious thought to the impact of the ages of her kids, on the life he envisioned, nor the challenges that would be presented by their age differences. He also underestimated the financial impact of divorce. and promises that he had made to his children.

 

While the divorce rate is high for second and subsequent marriages, I know that there are people unhappy in marriages who don't leave because they don't want a second (or higher) divorce. I am sure some of these relationships started in affairs, but as time passes, I am not sure that is the main reason they stay. It is the burden of being divorced again.

 

I think it is also important to remember that most relationships don't end in marriage so for me it is no surprise that lot's of affairs don t end up together. I think of how many people I dates before I married, quite a few.

 

I just thought it was interesting is all. And frankly I am glad that is not me!!

[NewLeaf512]

it actually makes perfect sense -- a MM (who is in a decades long bad marriage & only walks away with the help of a 3person & that kind of motivation) probably WILL repeat that same circle with another unhappy relationship if the problem isn't dealt with (it usually isn't).

 

makes me think of E. Hemingway -- went out of his relationship only with the help of his OW, married the OW, got unhappy. waited until he met another OW, left the first one for the second one, married the second one... and repeat that 5 times until his death.

 

 

 

& most importantly - MOTIVATION in the form of another lover and another relationship. if the motivation isn't there...? they won't leave.

 

you have those who have the courage & emotional resources from THEMSELVES, to walk away without any form of support (even with the OW present) -- and then you have those who suddenly develop courage & emotional resources from a 3rd party & they ONLY walk away when there is a safety net to fall back on... even just in a form of hope.

 

so the "well, if he left his marriage, kids, mortgage - he would leave the OW" doesn't make any sense -- do not underestimate the pressure that people feel and almost an obligation to make it work with the OW (for many, it is a matter of atonement for the hurt they caused).

 

sometimes, the love is there but people realize that they won't work out longterm. in my personal environment, there is one relationship between the MM&OW which lasted 23 years (marriage, kids) -- they decided to divorce, remained close friends (!) & are dating other people. they had the best time for thise 23 years and it came to an end. so yeah, a lot of different stories.

 

 

Hi MM

 

 

I think this may also flip the other was in that WS feels such guilt about the A and what they have done to BS that they stay in what may have already been a miserable marriage to "prove" that they really aren't a "bad" person and can honour their obligations/vows. They may get over AP, maybe not.

 

 

Either way, staying in any relationship that isn't happening because there is no foundation of love, no matter how small, means seek help through MC or your place of worship counselling or try reconnecting. If you cant resolve, split, and give each other a shot at happiness with someone else.

 

 

 

 

Being authentic from the beginning and staying out of an A is the best way to avoid drama and transference and see if the M can be worked out... or not.

[Anna-Belle]

Actually, some men do leave. IRL I've found that those that will leave do so early, when the relationship is new, the OW/OM breaks it off, and they still have respect for them and are not comfortable yet.

 

My fAP left his marriage after 7 years of EMR. We are another one of the "success stories". For some men the issues they are dealing with go deeper so it takes longer for them to leave.

[Popsicle]

My fAP left his marriage after 7 years of EMR. We are another one of the "success stories". For some men the issues they are dealing with go deeper so it takes longer for them to leave.

 

Did he specifically ask you to wait for him?

[goodyblue]

My fAP left his marriage after 7 years of EMR. We are another one of the "success stories". For some men the issues they are dealing with go deeper so it takes longer for them to leave.

 

Anna. It has been a long time. I hope things are going wonderfully for you!

[Anna-Belle]

Anna. It has been a long time. I hope things are going wonderfully for you!

 

They are. I love waking up next to him in the morning and feel his arms wrapped around me all night.

 

Happy to see the two of you are married now!

[Anna-Belle]

Did he specifically ask you to wait for him?

 

He asked me to stay with him, not to wait for him. Every day with him was better than a day without him, so I chose to stay in the EMR even with no guarantees or promises for the future.

[Lois_Griffin]

I can't recall any such stories (other than second-hand claims by xBW who were dumped for fOW, posting about how their xWH keeps begging them to try again, because the fOW is <insert wild allegation here>. ) Most likely though, there are some out there. Some guy so desperate to get out of a M he grabbed the first ride out he could, put a ring on it, and then later discovered that his eagerness to escape his M blinded himself to aspects of his fOW that weren't such a good fit, for example.

LOL.

 

I've read MANY stories over the last 15 years from OW whose MM had left their wives for them and then ran back home months or just weeks later. I've also read numerous stories from OW who said their MM left his wife to be with her only to eventually catch his ass texting his undying love to his wife and begging to come back home. Many have also told about how they'd caught their MM-turned-boyfriend sneaking over to his wife's place and in essence, had turned his wife into the OW.

 

Seems to be a fairly common thing on OW support boards.

[goodyblue]

They are. I love waking up next to him in the morning and feel his arms wrapped around me all night.

 

Happy to see the two of you are married now!

 

We are. Just bought a new home. It can be an amazing thing if it is the right thing!

[Anna-Belle]

LOL.

 

I've read MANY stories over the last 15 years from OW whose MM had left their wives for them and then ran back home months or just weeks later. I've also read numerous stories from OW who said their MM left his wife to be with her only to eventually catch his ass texting his undying love to his wife and begging to come back home. Many have also told about how they'd caught their MM-turned-boyfriend sneaking over to his wife's place and in essence, had turned his wife into the OW.

 

Seems to be a fairly common thing on OW support boards.

 

Not on the OW support boards I visit. The only ones I can think of are here on LS. Wonder if it says more about the board than about EMRs?

[goodyblue]

Not on the OW support boards I visit. The only ones I can think of are here on LS. Wonder if it says more about the board than about EMRs?

 

I can't think of any that ran back to their wife except a couple.

Edited September 23, 2015 by goodyblue

[Popsicle]

He asked me to stay with him, not to wait for him. Every day with him was better than a day without him, so I chose to stay in the EMR even with no guarantees or promises for the future.

 

What do you think was the difference in asking you to stay and asking you to wait from HIS perspective (not yours)? Because I don't see a difference.