He will never leave his wife for you.

[Lady2163]

There are a few here that are married to our FMM. A lot of the time they just don't come on LS. I know some IRL too.

 

This is an important statement simply because as time goes on people no longer identify as the Other. 19 months ago I ended things with my married friend. I don't check this forum every day like I did when I was in the midst of it.

 

The same probably happens for those who eventually marry their AP or in a committed relationship. You may have started as an Other, but as time goes on I think it is expected that people identify as a girlfriend or wife rather than a mistress.

 

I know three couples who have been together more than 20 years (one more than 45 years) who started out as affairs in real life.

[Finally Settled]

Two lessons I learned were: 1) Always ASK if they are married or taken within minutes of meeting them (you'd be surprised how many say yes) and then abort after that if they are. 2) Always see their place asap if they say they are single and never engage in LDR's or online relationships - they are conducive atmospheres for cheating.

 

Might I suggest another - insist on calling him on his home phone number rather than his cell.

[Got it]

This is an important statement simply because as time goes on people no longer identify as the Other. 19 months ago I ended things with my married friend. I don't check this forum every day like I did when I was in the midst of it.

 

The same probably happens for those who eventually marry their AP or in a committed relationship. You may have started as an Other, but as time goes on I think it is expected that people identify as a girlfriend or wife rather than a mistress.

 

I know three couples who have been together more than 20 years (one more than 45 years) who started out as affairs in real life.

 

Yes I am on here some but it is less and less as we have moved way beyond the affair, it just isn't how we classify ourselves. It's just married life now with its daily ups and downs.

 

I try and give back but I am no longer on the affair specific sites like I was during the affair.

[Lois_Griffin]

I know three couples who have been together more than 20 years (one more than 45 years) who started out as affairs in real life.

I actually only knew one couple - a married friend of mine started seeing some single guy and she left her husband within 3 weeks of starting the affair. Boy, was that ugly.

 

After her divorce, she ended up marrying this guy and it was just a slow-motion train wreck to watch.

 

He was a loser who eventually lost his business and started selling drugs as his new 'career.' After being busted for it a few times, he eventually had to do time in the state pen for 2 years. A couple months into his 2-year jail sentence, she took up with his BEST friend and she eventually divorced her jail-bird husband while he was still in prison. She's now been married to this 'best friend' for about 7 years and he constantly cheats her.

 

I swear, this girl puts the 'fun' in dysfunction.

[Popsicle]

Might I suggest another - insist on calling him on his home phone number rather than his cell.

 

Good one, These days, most people don't have home phones anymore, just mobiles.

[NewLeaf512]

Yep, I'm another of these. Absolutist statements such as "they *never* leave" or "they *always* choose the BW" are vulnerable to easy disproving, because clearly there are example to the contrary.

 

More germane, perhaps, to the thread, is, "will *my* MM leave?" rather than "do they ever leave?", and obviously that's a lot harder to call.

 

The OP claims she was 100% certain her MM would leave, yet he didn't. Others were certain their MM would leave, and he did. Some left unexpectedly, others leave and go back... Which would suggest pretty much that it's hard to predict.

 

But I would say two things matter:

* is he doing what he promised to do, wrt taking actions for you to be together (assuming that is what you're wanting)? If not - that is a problem, and doesn't augur well for him leaving.

 

* are you happy with the R as it is today (rather than just hoping you'll be together, someday)? Is the R adding more to your life, making it better than your life would be otherwise? If not, it doesn't matter what the future may or may not bring. He R, as it is now, is not good for you and you'd do well to walk away.

 

If those two factors are present - you're happy in your R currently, and he's doing what he said he would towards making Happy Ever After happen, then hanging in there makes sense. If either of those factories are not present, hanging in there represents a triumph of optimism over good sense, and you should be prepared for disappointment. If neither factor is present, then hoping and waiting smacks of denial, or even desperation and delusion, depending on how unhappy you are and how "embedded" his actions reveal him to be in the M (things like, another baby, moving to a new home, taking exotic holidays, etc can all weigh in here...).

 

Having faith in your SO is touching. Having blind faith, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, can just set you up for heartache. Be realistic about your own situation. After all, you know it best.

 

 

Hi.. I completely agree with your post. I am 100% aligned to not using broad brush, empirical statements relating to most things, because there are outliers to every situation. There can be "indicators" of outcomes but even these are subject to outliers and occasionally last minute and/or volatile reversal.

 

 

Although I had many "indicators" (I like to think of them as data points because the actions were absolute certitude)

 

 

He retained a lawyer, told his parents, executed the financial disclosure form, had his alimony calculation prepared, his house valued for sale, moved clothing and other items to his parents, rented a flat and told his wife under some duress from me, (but to be practical, if you really wanted a divorce and had already taken those steps what does it matter how telling your BS came about?) on the day he told her, he told me he told her, and I have never heard from him since.

 

 

So, after reading all the accounts of A here, there is one common thread to everyone's story, which is, no matter what the outcome, there isn't one person to my knowledge that is "happy" with how the A started even if it turned into a R or M. There is no way of knowing the statistics on affairs because there are people who will not disclose if they had an A out of shame or other reasons, as well as people who wind up M to their AP out of shame, legal reasons or many other reasons. Therefore it is impossible to have a correct sample size and power calculation (study group) to calculate the % of A that turn into M, but based on the stories here it seems low.

 

 

My conclusion is, although the heart is fickle, the head must rule the heart so never enter into an A.

 

 

Obviously

[Got it]

Hi.. I completely agree with your post. I am 100% aligned to not using broad brush, empirical statements relating to most things, because there are outliers to every situation. There can be "indicators" of outcomes but even these are subject to outliers and occasionally last minute and/or volatile reversal.

 

 

Although I had many "indicators" (I like to think of them as data points because the actions were absolute certitude)

 

 

He retained a lawyer, told his parents, executed the financial disclosure form, had his alimony calculation prepared, his house valued for sale, moved clothing and other items to his parents, rented a flat and told his wife under some duress from me, (but to be practical, if you really wanted a divorce and had already taken those steps what does it matter how telling your BS came about?) on the day he told her, he told me he told her, and I have never heard from him since.

 

 

So, after reading all the accounts of A here, there is one common thread to everyone's story, which is, no matter what the outcome, there isn't one person to my knowledge that is "happy" with how the A started even if it turned into a R or M. There is no way of knowing the statistics on affairs because there are people who will not disclose if they had an A out of shame or other reasons, as well as people who wind up M to their AP out of shame, legal reasons or many other reasons. Therefore it is impossible to have a correct sample size and power calculation (study group) to calculate the % of A that turn into M, but based on the stories here it seems low.

 

 

My conclusion is, although the heart is fickle, the head must rule the heart so never enter into an A.

 

 

Obviously

 

Newleaf, can you give more detail on this point please? Not sure if I am completely understanding it. Thanks.

[NewLeaf512]

Newleaf, can you give more detail on this point please? Not sure if I am completely understanding it. Thanks.

 

 

Hi Got It thanks for your post. What I mean is that I have not seen anyone post

 

 

"I excitedly, happily entered an A with a MM/MW and I am proud of that being the way my R started"

 

 

edited to add : I think the same thing applies if you met your mate on tinder or say a fetish site

[goodyblue]

Hi Got It thanks for your post. What I mean is that I have not seen anyone post

 

 

"I excitedly, happily entered an A with a MM/MW and I am proud of that being the way my R started"

 

 

edited to add : I think the same thing applies if you met your mate on tinder or say a fetish site

 

My h and I are not thrilled at starting as an affair but it has much less impact than you would think. I feel bad for his ex but beyond that there really was not much of a lasting impact. Same friends, same clients, we are in his city...

 

Proud, no... but if it was a choice between affair or not being together I would choose him every time, even on our worst day.

[Got it]

Hi Got It thanks for your post. What I mean is that I have not seen anyone post

 

 

"I excitedly, happily entered an A with a MM/MW and I am proud of that being the way my R started"

 

 

edited to add : I think the same thing applies if you met your mate on tinder or say a fetish site

 

UUUMMMM. . . . I can't say I was that elated but I wasn't morose on it either. I did happily enter the affair to be with him and I have never fully regretted it (I regret the pain I have caused others and that is the dichotomy of things. How sorry can I be if I can't say I regret the affair?) Yes, ideally we would have met some other way but realistically that wouldn't have happened. And I can't say I wouldn't have done it all over again to be with him. I was in it for him. Not to be in the affair. But he was worth it.

 

And that is where I struggle on LS. I did have a lot of great moments in the affair. The love affair in it was something I had never experienced. Our relationship is unlike anything I have ever experienced. The connection, the intimacy, the SEX, wow. It is, was, and will be mind blowing. I learned more about myself through the ups and the downs in the whole process that it is hard to say I regret it. And that is hard for some people to hear. But I don't. I don't regret the affair. To regret it would be to regret us. And one of the greatest gifts I have received is him/our love/relationship.

 

In the beginning of the affair it was black and white. There were no major second guessing, no debating, I was all in. He rocked my world. Now time, dday, and life tempered it to a degree as hurting others is never something I set out to do and what I avoid doing in all other areas of my life. I like/want to add value to people's lives, not detract from it. So that is the piece I have never been able to reconcile and come to any acceptable logic on.

 

People don't tend to post gushing threads on here, at least in the past, because they were attacked. But if you search my history there would be one or two. And on other sites, yes, I would be more open. I was a very happy OW for most of the duration of the affair.

[sandylee1]

 

"I excitedly, happily entered an A with a MM/MW and I am proud of that being the way my R started"

 

 

 

I agree with this, but there are a small minority that have no issue with it. A very small minority.

 

For most the regret comes from the MM not leaving his wife.

[goodyblue]

UUUMMMM. . . . I can't say I was that elated but I wasn't morose on it either. I did happily enter the affair to be with him and I have never fully regretted it (I regret the pain I have caused others and that is the dichotomy of things. How sorry can I be if I can't say I regret the affair?) Yes, ideally we would have met some other way but realistically that wouldn't have happened. And I can't say I wouldn't have done it all over again to be with him. I was in it for him. Not to be in the affair. But he was worth it.

 

And that is where I struggle on LS. I did have a lot of great moments in the affair. The love affair in it was something I had never experienced. Our relationship is unlike anything I have ever experienced. The connection, the intimacy, the SEX, wow. It is, was, and will be mind blowing. I learned more about myself through the ups and the downs in the whole process that it is hard to say I regret it. And that is hard for some people to hear. But I don't. I don't regret the affair. To regret it would be to regret us. And one of the greatest gifts I have received is him/our love/relationship.

 

In the beginning of the affair it was black and white. There were no major second guessing, no debating, I was all in. He rocked my world. Now time, dday, and life tempered it to a degree as hurting others is never something I set out to do and what I avoid doing in all other areas of my life. I like/want to add value to people's lives, not detract from it. So that is the piece I have never been able to reconcile and come to any acceptable logic on.

 

People don't tend to post gushing threads on here, at least in the past, because they were attacked. But if you search my history there would be one or two. And on other sites, yes, I would be more open. I was a very happy OW for most of the duration of the affair.

 

 

For me, I was happy OW but only because I knew it was headed somewhere. If it hadn't been i would have opted out. I was also more open on other sites that were more accepting of my love for him and here in the beginning I was chewed up and spit out which is why I stick around. I don't really identify as OW anymore and some of what I read is cringe worthy but I don't want a newbie being treated how I was.

 

I would not change my affair either, we don't advertise it but we don't lie either. Nobody really cares except a very few. I do feel bad about causing pain to others as well but most everyone is happier because we are together.

[Got it]

For me, I was happy OW but only because I knew it was headed somewhere. If it hadn't been i would have opted out. I was also more open on other sites that were more accepting of my love for him and here in the beginning I was chewed up and spit out which is why I stick around. I don't really identify as OW anymore and some of what I read is cringe worthy but I don't want a newbie being treated how I was.

 

I would not change my affair either, we don't advertise it but we don't lie either. Nobody really cares except a very few. I do feel bad about causing pain to others as well but most everyone is happier because we are together.

 

I agree. We had a timeline and I had a game plan that even if he didn't follow it I knew what I was doing/going to do and it was a stopgap than a lifestyle choice.

[USEDOW]

My affair went on nearly seven years, together every day. I think he got used to it, got used to lying. I gave him too long.... i know that now.... but i wasn;t ready for him to move in as I had kids. Having said that, he probably found his wife a novelty after our affair ended as i had pressured him so much, and she pulled every string, including her kids to see me. I guess it will work for so long. But at the end of the day i would swear on my life that he loves me.... he just has no balls. at the end of a long break, he will be back. Im so broken i have not lived for two years.

[USEDOW]

I agree. We had a timeline and I had a game plan that even if he didn't follow it I knew what I was doing/going to do and it was a stopgap than a lifestyle choice.

 

 

GI, maybe you were lucky but IME blackmail does not work. I just made him crazy. He would pull his hair and cry.

[msoptimistic]

I am almost ashamed to write a post here. It seems like I try and fail constantly at walking away from MM. My M is almost irreparable and still I cannot get this man out of my head. His wife has made it more than clear that she is not committed but still he stays. Just when is it enough for me to walk away? Forget keeping any dignity intact. Thats long gone. I havent read every reply to this thread and I know that every situation is unique. Sometimes the MM may leave and it may work. I guess sometimes the MM leaves and the other woman realizes he aint all that. But I am inclined to think that a majority of the time the man not only doesnt leave but has no remorse about stringing the OW along as long as he's getting his way. Maybe there are no words to describe this feeling of helplessness when you feel like you love someone so much and you're royally getting screwed and you cant even find the freaking guts to stand up and say no more. And if you do try to break away and go NC then in the back of your mind you're hoping that will make him want you morw. Its crazy...maybe I'm crazy for letting him have this control. Lots of crap happened today. I tried to be big and bad and brave and tell him where to go but that went just about as well as you can imagine. Thanks for a safe place to vent. It will all come to an end one day...I just wish I could take control and end it on my terms....feeling soooo sooooo weak!

[NewLeaf512]

UUUMMMM. . . . I can't say I was that elated but I wasn't morose on it either. I did happily enter the affair to be with him and I have never fully regretted it (I regret the pain I have caused others and that is the dichotomy of things. How sorry can I be if I can't say I regret the affair?) Yes, ideally we would have met some other way but realistically that wouldn't have happened. And I can't say I wouldn't have done it all over again to be with him. I was in it for him. Not to be in the affair. But he was worth it.

 

And that is where I struggle on LS. I did have a lot of great moments in the affair. The love affair in it was something I had never experienced. Our relationship is unlike anything I have ever experienced. The connection, the intimacy, the SEX, wow. It is, was, and will be mind blowing. I learned more about myself through the ups and the downs in the whole process that it is hard to say I regret it. And that is hard for some people to hear. But I don't. I don't regret the affair. To regret it would be to regret us. And one of the greatest gifts I have received is him/our love/relationship.

 

In the beginning of the affair it was black and white. There were no major second guessing, no debating, I was all in. He rocked my world. Now time, dday, and life tempered it to a degree as hurting others is never something I set out to do and what I avoid doing in all other areas of my life. I like/want to add value to people's lives, not detract from it. So that is the piece I have never been able to reconcile and come to any acceptable logic on.

 

People don't tend to post gushing threads on here, at least in the past, because they were attacked. But if you search my history there would be one or two. And on other sites, yes, I would be more open. I was a very happy OW for most of the duration of the affair.

 

 

Let me be more clear, I believe that there are many of us who don't regret the happy times or whatever love, etc that happened during it. Regret is a strong word.

I mean that if it was possible to have started being with him another way most people would have chosen that.

 

 

Additionally, for OW who became W of MM do you say when people ask you how you met "well we met when we started an A"?

 

 

I for one was really in love with my exMM. I believed that he was separated and later believed that he was getting a divorce. I cant deny that I had a passionate love for him at that time. It would be a lie to do so.

[goodyblue]

Let me be more clear, I believe that there are many of us who don't regret the happy times or whatever love, etc that happened during it. Regret is a strong word.

I mean that if it was possible to have started being with him another way most people would have chosen that.

 

 

Additionally, for OW who became W of MM do you say when people ask you how you met "well we met when we started an A"?

 

 

I for one was really in love with my exMM. I believed that he was separated and later believed that he was getting a divorce. I cant deny that I had a passionate love for him at that time. It would be a lie to do so.

 

I just tell them how we met. I don't say I was OW. It is irrelevant. We are M and what else matters? It is to the point that if someone did bring it up they would look like a lop for doing it. But if someone asked me in a sincere way I would probably laugh and be honest.

[Got it]

GI, maybe you were lucky but IME blackmail does not work. I just made him crazy. He would pull his hair and cry.

 

???? What blackmail???? I never blackmailed.

[Got it]

Let me be more clear, I believe that there are many of us who don't regret the happy times or whatever love, etc that happened during it. Regret is a strong word.

I mean that if it was possible to have started being with him another way most people would have chosen that.

 

 

Additionally, for OW who became W of MM do you say when people ask you how you met "well we met when we started an A"?

 

 

I for one was really in love with my exMM. I believed that he was separated and later believed that he was getting a divorce. I cant deny that I had a passionate love for him at that time. It would be a lie to do so.

 

It hasn't been a big secret especially now so while that question really isn't asked much we also do not hide we were in an affair. We also met tied to our industry so we will say that we met through that area of work focus. We don't go into a timeline but we also don't hide it. Just depends on what is germane to the conversation.

[NewLeaf512]

I just tell them how we met. I don't say I was OW. It is irrelevant. We are M and what else matters? It is to the point that if someone did bring it up they would look like a lop for doing it. But if someone asked me in a sincere way I would probably laugh and be honest.

 

 

Perhaps it's just a cultural thing here that when friends etc find out you are dating someone new or have a new partner (especially for us older people) a common theme is "It's nice to meet you (insert new person's name here) So, How did you two meet?" It's not meant to be nosey, more conversational.

 

 

The whole point of my earlier post was primarily this (and seems to be so with the limited data here)

 

 

Most OW/OM regardless if they are currently in an A (happy or not) , the affair has ended (happily or not), or things worked out (happily or not)

would have rather have had any of the above scenarios not begin as an A.

 

 

I know from experiences of my own that the perfect single M or W who is rich, gorgeous inside and out, has personality plus, has good taste in gifts, a fantastic job and no baggage and wants me is a myth. Life happens when and how it happens, but I've not run across but 1 poster who was "yeah like I knew they were married and couldn't give a toss, marriage means nothing to me and I'll go after anyone I fancy because I can"

 

 

For me and it seems many other OW/OM fall in very deep love, love, or deep caring for the AP and many of those OW/OM want more than anything to become the partner or S of their AP. Some do, it seems the majority don't, and in sticking to the original post, it seems to be mostly the MM/MW who does not fulfil the promise/plan/dream of the OW/OM and it is they who get left with a broken heart, shattered soul, and when the affair fog lifts, are regretful about the collateral damage the A may have caused. I dare say that most OW/OM really do want and in most cases believe that the M AP will "become theirs" at some point. I still maintain that knowing what I know now and the pain I have suffered and still suffer, I believe the majority of them wont leave their W.

[NewLeaf512]

It hasn't been a big secret especially now so while that question really isn't asked much we also do not hide we were in an affair. We also met tied to our industry so we will say that we met through that area of work focus. We don't go into a timeline but we also don't hide it. Just depends on what is germane to the conversation.

 

 

I understand that the strength of which it "matters" really varies widely. to keep it simple:

 

 

In an ideal world, if you could have started your M as 2 single people out in the open dating and not tied to anyone else, or M to someone else, which would you have chosen?

[NewLeaf512]

GI, maybe you were lucky but IME blackmail does not work. I just made him crazy. He would pull his hair and cry.

 

 

 

Blackmail? where are you getting that from?

[NewLeaf512]

Yes I am on here some but it is less and less as we have moved way beyond the affair, it just isn't how we classify ourselves. It's just married life now with its daily ups and downs.

 

I try and give back but I am no longer on the affair specific sites like I was during the affair.

 

 

 

Got It, I am going to give you an alternate thought. Although you are now M and no longer the OW, please don't stay away. If this forum is going to really be all the resource it can be, the posters demographic needs to be robust. without disparate experiences, and differing POV the forum decreases in value.

 

 

Just like OP believes "he will never leave his wife for you" without counterpoints such as yourself and others like you, the insights and support value basically disappear. Think back to when you were an OW and first came here. What led you to find this or a forum like this was a need for support, understanding, and to have questions answered. I'm sure you are getting on with the business of life, but please take a little time and post when you can. Don't abandon it altogether please.

[SeasideMermaid]

Let me be more clear, I believe that there are many of us who don't regret the happy times or whatever love, etc that happened during it. Regret is a strong word.

I mean that if it was possible to have started being with him another way most people would have chosen that.

 

I don't get this idea that being proud of how you met somebody or started a relationship is a thing. Like, I've met guys at school, at work, at bars, at clubs and I'm not prouder of one location or method over the other. It's a means to an end and not much else.

 

Additionally, for OW who became W of MM do you say when people ask you how you met "well we met when we started an A"?

 

"We met at work. I was X. He was Y. He thought I had a nice butt."

 

Nobody asks for more detail than that. Anybody who sees our family who can do math knows we had an affair. Occasionally somebody is shocked but generally nobody cares.