He will never leave his wife for you.

[cocorico]

LOL.

 

I've read MANY stories over the last 15 years from OW whose MM had left their wives for them and then ran back home months or just weeks later. I've also read numerous stories from OW who said their MM left his wife to be with her only to eventually catch his ass texting his undying love to his wife and begging to come back home. Many have also told about how they'd caught their MM-turned-boyfriend sneaking over to his wife's place and in essence, had turned his wife into the OW.

 

Seems to be a fairly common thing on OW support boards.

 

LOL.

 

If you'd read the post I was responding to, you'd have noticed that it said :

 

I always wonder how often it happens that mm leaves, goes with ow and once he realizes they are not a good match, stays anyway to save face...

 

None of the "fairly common things" you quote address that. So no, the "many" stories you refer to have *no* relevance to what I was responding to. Since you cite a whole bunch of irrelevant "fairly common things", I'm assuming you've not come across any such instances either. Nice try though with the red herring.

 

LOL.

[Popsicle]

I am truly curious.

[cocorico]

What do you think was the difference in asking you to stay and asking you to wait from HIS perspective (not yours)? Because I don't see a difference.

 

I think there is a huge difference.

 

Staying *with* someone => you already are together, have a R and share an intimacy. You continue with that, whether or not anything might change in the future (including him leaving the BW)

 

Waiting *for* someone => what you have currently is insufficient, but you hope one day to have more. You are willing to put your life on hold in the hope that he will one day leave and be with you.

 

Not only is there a massive difference in mindset (one focuses on the future, the other enjoying the present) but there is also a great difference implied in the R. In the "waiting" scenario, the current R is considered inadequate, and the OW has to "suffer" it while hoping for a payoff in the longer term. In the "staying with" scenario, the R currently is worthwhile, enjoyed by both OW and MM, and if it does transition into a FTR, it serves as a solid base for the future.

[Mount]

Agree. Also I want to add on is that:

 

Staying *with* someone => you already are together, have a R and share an intimacy

In this case, MM also invests proactively more than OW, i.e. time or $$ into the relationship despite he is still married with current wife. But MM is doing whatever to keep OW or keep the Relationship on-going. And OW is happy in the status, situation or condition of this kind of relationship. Most of all, at this status, the focus for MM is the OW, not the wife - for sure.

 

Waiting *for* someone => what you have currently is insufficient, but you hope one day to have more

In this case, OW is feeling being ignored, and is trying to invest her time, energy or even money to keep or get MM's attention or love...etc. OW is always in a hunger status, wanting more of MM's time, love, attention...etc.

 

Does it make sense.

 

 

I think there is a huge difference.

 

Staying *with* someone => you already are together, have a R and share an intimacy. You continue with that, whether or not anything might change in the future (including him leaving the BW)

 

Waiting *for* someone => what you have currently is insufficient, but you hope one day to have more. You are willing to put your life on hold in the hope that he will one day leave and be with you.

 

Not only is there a massive difference in mindset (one focuses on the future, the other enjoying the present) but there is also a great difference implied in the R. In the "waiting" scenario, the current R is considered inadequate, and the OW has to "suffer" it while hoping for a payoff in the longer term. In the "staying with" scenario, the R currently is worthwhile, enjoyed by both OW and MM, and if it does transition into a FTR, it serves as a solid base for the future.

[Anna-Belle]

What do you think was the difference in asking you to stay and asking you to wait from HIS perspective (not yours)? Because I don't see a difference.

 

He has many times expressed to me that it was very important to him that I thought and expressed that the relationship was worthwhile independent of outcome. He needed me to enjoy the now or he would have felt guilty.

 

He would also say if I needed an immediate answer it would be No, but if I could wait for the answer it might be Yes. Maybe he felt himself changing, maybe he understood he needed time? I was satisfied as long as I saw him moving closer and closer to me and our relationship evolving. I didn't need an answer there and then.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Anna-Belle

[Got it]

He has many times expressed to me that it was very important to him that I thought and expressed that the relationship was worthwhile independent of outcome. He needed me to enjoy the now or he would have felt guilty.

 

He would also say if I needed an immediate answer it would be No, but if I could wait for the answer it might be Yes. Maybe he felt himself changing, maybe he understood he needed time? I was satisfied as long as I saw him moving closer and closer to me and our relationship evolving. I didn't need an answer there and then.

 

I think this needs to be highlighted. There are many people who are happy in affairs and are happy with what they get out of it on both sides. They are not all this seeking, needing, yearning campaign but the relationships, of themselves, is more than enough.

 

I know of a few long term affairs that have moved forward to other relationships. But they were happy in the affair as well so it wasn't years just waiting and hoping.

[goodyblue]

I think this needs to be highlighted. There are many people who are happy in affairs and are happy with what they get out of it on both sides. They are not all this seeking, needing, yearning campaign but the relationships, of themselves, is more than enough.

 

I know of a few long term affairs that have moved forward to other relationships. But they were happy in the affair as well so it wasn't years just waiting and hoping.

 

The last paragraph makes a very good distinction.

[minimariah]

I know of a few long term affairs that have moved forward to other relationships. But they were happy in the affair as well so it wasn't years just waiting and hoping.

 

you mean, moved together into a public relationship or moved on to other relationships with other people?

 

sorry, didn't understand that part.

[goodyblue]

you mean, moved together into a public relationship or moved on to other relationships with other people?

 

sorry, didn't understand that part.

 

If I am not mistaken I believe she meant that people were happy in affairs and then moved on to different people but without the dissapointment/misery because at the time the affair relationship was enough.

[TreadingLightly]

He has many times expressed to me that it was very important to him that I thought and expressed that the relationship was worthwhile independent of outcome. He needed me to enjoy the now or he would have felt guilty.

 

He would also say if I needed an immediate answer it would be No, but if I could wait for the answer it might be Yes. Maybe he felt himself changing, maybe he understood he needed time? I was satisfied as long as I saw him moving closer and closer to me and our relationship evolving. I didn't need an answer there and then.

 

This is so interesting. I keep hearing something very similar from my MM. And when I look at it from the inside, I am enjoying it. But my brain is aware of societal disapproval, and I am having a hard time shutting that out.

[cocorico]

This is so interesting. I keep hearing something very similar from my MM. And when I look at it from the inside, I am enjoying it. But my brain is aware of societal disapproval, and I am having a hard time shutting that out.

 

How important is societal approval to you? Will it impact on your job, your extended family relationships, your social circle? If it makes a material difference, then you need to consider that. (People have committed suicide when exposed on AM, for example.)

 

If it is less important to you, then simply ignore it. It is your own life, which you should live authentically according to your own values - not trying to keep other people happy. If the R is consistent with your own values, enjoy it.

[OldRover]

After reading this thread one can pretty much figure out where their relationship is going.

 

Do a search on stats with affairs, etc., etc. and there's a lot of info out there. Some pretty good.

 

Statistically, the MM will probably stay with his wife, and the chance of him divorcing the wife and marrying the other woman is very low (Probably less than 10%, depending on whose stats you fine). Now, if you do get married, the chances of success are only slightly worse that any second or third marriage, somewhere in the 75% range.

 

So, overall stats on ending up in a permanent relationship that lasts with an AP are very low, probably in the 5% range.

 

There's also a lot of rumors and good facts on affairs, do a search on them. Reasons for the affair, etc. Here's a few:

 

Myth #1: Most people who cheat are looking for an affair when it happens.

 

Myth #2: Most people drift from their spouses for someone younger or more attractive.

 

Myth #3: Affairs almost always spell the end of marriage.

 

Myth #4: Once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

Myth #5: Affairs happen because something is wrong with the marriage.

 

Myth #6: Affairs are all about sex.

 

Myth #7: If there's no sex, there's no affair.

 

Myth #8: Cheating really is never about just sex; it's about other marital issues.

 

Myth #9: Most people who have affairs are unhappy in their marriage.

 

Myth #10: Once an affair is out in the open, even if a couple stays together, they can never be happy together again.

 

And add in the factor that there a many variations of an affair, some can be justified. Some are complicated, some are simple, kids, no kids, family, friends, etc. all have their influences.

 

So, success with an affair just depends on what the situation is.

 

However, as we have seen here, seems like the majority of them have major problems.

 

Food for thought.

[cocorico]

 

Do a search on stats with affairs, etc., etc. and there's a lot of info out there. Some pretty good.

 

Sure there are "stats", but they are little more than anecdote - journalistic "surveys", or "data" from the practice notes of professionals with self-interest, and blogs (I've, anecdote). There are no reliable, scientifically sound, statistics, for the obvious reasons.

 

If you choose to believe that Dr X's marriage recovery clients are representative of you, then go ahead and read yourself into Dr X's "stats"; or, if you think Halper tells a good story and your MM sounds like he could be one of the businessmen she interviewed for something else entirely, who happened to mention that he'd had an A, then go ahead and read yourself into her "stats"; or if you like the official look of the tabulated stats that Blogger Y has pulled together from nebulous sources in a foreign country, and the stats confirm what you suspect anyway, then go ahead and indulge your confirmation bias.

 

Fact is, there are no proper stats - nothing generalisable to all people, of all ages and cultures, in all countries, at all times. So any numbers you find are unlikely to be generalisable to you - unless you were one of those interviewed / surveyed / polled.

 

That said, what matters more is whether your R is working for you now - not whether he may or may one day leave, and whether, having left, he may land up with you, and stay with you long term, and you're both happy. If you're not happy now, you're wasting your time. If f you are happy now - enjoy it - and when / if you're no longer happy, move on. Second guessing what might happen is a fool's errand (unless your crystal ball is fully functioning - in which case, can I have he numbers for the Euromillions? )

[Got it]

you mean, moved together into a public relationship or moved on to other relationships with other people?

 

sorry, didn't understand that part.

 

Sorry, yes, moved towards another stage of their relationship, openly dating, marriage, etc. Or moved on to others as well. I was meaning both but not clearly defining it.

[TreadingLightly]

How important is societal approval to you? Will it impact on your job, your extended family relationships, your social circle? If it makes a material difference, then you need to consider that. (People have committed suicide when exposed on AM, for example.)

 

If it is less important to you, then simply ignore it. It is your own life, which you should live authentically according to your own values - not trying to keep other people happy. If the R is consistent with your own values, enjoy it.

 

It has zero impact on my job or my social circle. As far as my family goes, they are aware I am seeing him, and who he is, and nobody seems overly concerned with what the details are of our R. So, I guess it matters not one bit in my world. And while I wish we had more time together, I am also enjoying living alone, so a FTR isn't really necessary to me right now.

[Anna-Belle]

I was told over and over again on boards like this one that my MM would never leave his wife. I chose to continue our relationship as it was fulfilling to me as an EMR even though I longed for us to be able to have a relationship out in the open.

 

If you find your relationship worthwhile as it is, don't listen to others. Who knows? Your MM may well also leave his wife. You may indeed become one of the "success stories".

 

:love:

[Mount]

Whether it is regarding the matter of MM/OW or else, as I posted towards another thread, anyone should have very firm thoughts that not influenced dramatically by other people.

 

I was told over and over again on boards like this one that my MM would never leave his wife. I chose to continue our relationship as it was fulfilling to me as an EMR even though I longed for us to be able to have a relationship out in the open.

 

If you find your relationship worthwhile as it is, don't listen to others. Who knows? Your MM may well also leave his wife. You may indeed become one of the "success stories".

 

:love:

[Mount]

Not tried to defend for Anne-Bella as I don't recall all the details of her story, but you have to look at both sides.

 

 

Those wives of MMs are apparently doormat too, they are allowing MMs cheating on them and went back and forth between wives and OWs so many times. Just because they are married to MMs, the disrespecting themselves can be excused?

 

 

OWs are not married to MMs, so really they are not the doormat or being co-dependent to the situation that MMs are doing. You can say MMs are begging staying with wives, but again MMs are not leaving OWs alone either. So instead of saying being doormat, it is just a "game" of tug-of-war, and very obviously, the winner is MM.

Edited September 29, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ladydesigner]

Not tried to defend for Anne-Bella as I don't recall all the details of her story, but you have to look at both sides.

 

 

Those wives of MMs are apparently doormat too, they are allowing MMs cheating on them and went back and forth between wives and OWs so many times. Just because they are married to MMs, the disrespecting themselves can be excused?

 

 

OWs are not married to MMs, so really they are not the doormat or being co-dependent to the situation that MMs are doing. You can say MMs are begging staying with wives, but again MMs are not leaving OWs alone either. So instead of saying being doormat, it is just a "game" of tug-of-war, and very obviously, the winner is MM.

 

I think anyone involved with a MM or married to an idiot cheater like me are all doormats or codependent. Many times the OW are settling for less than and BS are settling for a less than M. Neither side wins in this. I'm not even sure the MM is a winner either.

[Mount]

My post above was trying to reply a post by an user that seems to be offensive to "Anna-Bella", but apparently MOD had removed her post, so my post was hanging there still weirdly .

 

 

Back to your post, sadly I still feel like MM is the only winner here, back and forth and he's banking on none of two parties not giving up on him ? So he has been the winner price of the tug of war.

 

 

I think anyone involved with a MM or married to an idiot cheater like me are all doormats or codependent. Many times the OW are settling for less than and BS are settling for a less than M. Neither side wins in this. I'm not even sure the MM is a winner either.

[Grapesofwrath]

I think anyone involved with a MM or married to an idiot cheater like me are all doormats or codependent. Many times the OW are settling for less than and BS are settling for a less than M. Neither side wins in this. I'm not even sure the MM is a winner either.

 

I'm curious, LadyDesigner, aside from being caught and taken to divorce court by the BS, how is the MM not the winner? I have often felt that my xMM was so smugly self-satisfied with getting his cake and eating it, too. I'd love to change my thinking on that.

[purplesorrow]

I'm curious, LadyDesigner, aside from being caught and taken to divorce court by the BS, how is the MM not the winner? I have often felt that my xMM was so smugly self-satisfied with getting his cake and eating it, too. I'd love to change my thinking on that.

 

What if he never planned to leave the marriage? I don't think my ex feels like he won anything. He regrets his choice to have an affair, not winning there either.

[ladydesigner]

I'm curious, LadyDesigner, aside from being caught and taken to divorce court by the BS, how is the MM not the winner? I have often felt that my xMM was so smugly self-satisfied with getting his cake and eating it, too. I'd love to change my thinking on that.

 

I don't think most MM are truly happy with themselves to begin with. My WH has never been completely satisfied with his life, there is always an issue with his job, his friends, me, anything he can find to make himself miserable. He has a void in himself that can never be filled, I have tried he just always needs affirmation from others that he is a "good person" "a great guy" "a catch" whatever you want to call it. I never knew how deep that void went and he still has it after everything has been said and done. He still feels unwanted, unloved, unsatisfied,etc. My WH wanted to know that someone other than me found him intoxicating. A new person and it worked albeit temporarily because he and MOW had their own issues and by the end of their relationship she found out about another OOW.

 

They may be self-satisfied to a degree, but I don't think it is to the extent that you think it is. I believe MM suffer as well with the effects of their choices. Having an A and maintaining a HAPPY M is no easy feat, eventually it catches up.

 

Then there is the fallout for MM which is absolute chaos. My WH got it from both sides from MOW then me and back and forth, that couldn't have been fun.

 

My WH is so miserable now, nothing went the way he thought it would.

[Poppy47]

I have to agree with Ladydesigner.

 

xMM never appeared to be self satisfied or smug. He was quite stressed by having an A as it meant rearranging his life all the time. I refused to rearrange mine in any way.

 

In hindsight, the man seemed to be driven and there was a pathetic desperation in some of his actions.

 

He was unhappy within himself and only once did he admit it openly... a Peter Pan character.

Poppy.

[Got it]

I agree, having been a MOW as well as feedback from him. I think only a select few don't find it stressful. Juggling so much is stressful and the fall out is/can be huge.

 

And from the MM stance, it's hard enough having one woman mad at you, having two!?! Holy hell!

 

No, I don't think a lot of people are at peace and "happy" living a double life. It may be a bandaid and have moments of happiness but, my experience, there is a disjointedness that is constantly there. At least that is how my husband and I both felt.