She had an ONS, now she's "SOOOOOO" "remorseful" and wants to save the marriage

[goodyblue]

It is still their personal failure, not the relationships. In no other situation would you apply that logic. They had other choices.[/QUOT

 

Not making a judgement, just wondering. I am not even disagreeing. I think my h holds himself (and I,myself) responsible for our part. Just curious.

[SummerDreams]

I think here and elsewhere I do not agree with the blanket statement that REMORSE is a necessary precondition for reconciliation. I argue that a) it's rare, or b) regret is mistaken often for remorse and c) LTA's make the idea of a DDAY remorse display most unbelievable in my experience.

 

That a WS continues to cheat, as my WW did, through more than a year, suggests she is incapable of remorse. And as I say, I am dubious that most people have seen remorse (about being the victim of enormous betrayal and wrongdoing. Do some WS's find remorse, yes, I think it's possible. On DDAY? No. I don't.

 

I really have trouble understanding how these paragraphs answered my question in any way but it may be my bad english. To ask a more straight forward question with the hope I understand this time, what IS for you a precondition for reconciliation? You already said that remorse is not. What is then?

 

And more particularly and please feel free to deny replying to this, what did your wife do to persuade you to forgive and reconcile? You have already said you loved her enough to find the strength to do so, but what did SHE do for you to be persuaded towards this path?

[fellini]

I really have trouble understanding how these paragraphs answered my question in any way but it may be my bad english. To ask a more straight forward question with the hope I understand this time, what IS for you a precondition for reconciliation? You already said that remorse is not. What is then?

 

And more particularly and please feel free to deny replying to this, what did your wife do to persuade you to forgive and reconcile? You have already said you loved her enough to find the strength to do so, but what did SHE do for you to be persuaded towards this path?

 

Well I answered the first part here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/548097-she-had-ons-now-she-s-soooooo-remorseful-wants-save-marriage-12.html#post6552009

 

To answer the second part:

 

She had to do all the things I asked of her to make me feel safe about her going to work, her whereabouts, he movements. She offered on Dday to switch cell phones so I would know he wasn't texting her or her him, and she did pretty much all the things I asked her to do that involved IC, MC, open dialogue, a structured separation. She had to work on her own issues and help me deal with mine. Pretty much everything anyone who has been betrayed ends up doing. Actions, in otherwords.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

cgiles

 

Thank you for you kind support, your warm words, your empathy and suggestion. I practically agree with everything you wrote. I still very angry, yet after calmed down alittle bit, got my emotions at least as to the grip that the won't affect my mental states and decision making and especially after what happend besides the understanding that even the divorce must be approached in a right way as I mentioned in earlier posts I did have those thoghts you mentioned here. Especially I do believe that my wife as I known her and especially this marriage is death. As I stated I blieve I can forgive her, but not sure at all that I am capable of reconciliation. I did thought about what you said as divorcing, ending that marriage officially and was asking myself what are the benefits. There are at least those

 

1. Restauration of balance

2. She pays a price for her actions and there are consequences for her

3. Restauration of justice

4. Getting a sense of control

5. She understands that she can't take me for granted

6. Not being a doormat

 

There are many more, but I think from the list it is evident that there are many benfits for it. Theoretically, we can continue to date in a committed relationship but not being married. This would also beneficial for the kids. However, there are still a lot of question marks here to.

 

1. Would it really be enought to accomplish the points above

2. Would it be really enough or would I be really able to truly reconcile when it happens

3. Would it be really enough to close all old accounts and clean the table

4. Would I be able to accept that she dies as she was and her new self or as a person

 

Once again, I am not sure that I will be able to reconcile up to the point that I would for exapmple would let go of the constant need to punish her in some way and so on on. I don't want to get along, if it's reconciliation so the love, the trust, the compassion, everything must be restored. I am not sure at all.

 

Although initially, I even didn't wanted to hear anything from here I understand that no matter what I decide, even in the light of divorce, I'll need to hear from her more details about what happened, As to which extent, this is what I am asking myself right now and I am going to prepare a kist of it. I am working right now to bring myself into the position to have a conversation with her about everything. I think also to give it to her in written form after the discussion, I want her to answer it in written form so I have it documented and at the end as you say verify it through a polygraph test. Only then I will know the truth and the speculation will stop. I agree with you that it is important even in the case of divorce, Right now I evaluate the situation and prepare an action plan of how to approach everything then I will go for it's implemantation

 

You also suggested I should visit your counsellor for veteran becauseI am not the first soldier to compare the betrayal of their cheating spouse to their experience on the battlefield. You said that like me they find it harder to live than what they've experienced in the battlefield or after it. It is true, it is a good suggestion and I will need as much hekp as I can et from every availble source

Edited September 19, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[Mrs. John Adams]

Grandfunkrailroad...every post you write i find myself wondering where is Verybrokenman when you need him.

 

The two of you need to talk...I have not seen him here in a while...but i think the two of you share a lot of the same ideas and principles...and your situations are different yet similar.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

Grandfunkrailroad...every post you write i find myself wondering where is Verybrokenman when you need him.

 

The two of you need to talk...I have not seen him here in a while...but i think the two of you share a lot of the same ideas and principles...and your situations are different yet similar.

 

Who is verybrokenman?

[Marc878]

Keep it simple.

 

Can you.......... Live with this???????

 

If you can and she's honest (completely) you have a shot.

 

If you can't you're just wasting time.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

Keep it simple.

 

Can you.......... Live with this???????

 

If you can and she's honest (completely) you have a shot.

 

If you can't you're just wasting time.

 

 

That's a good point but for many reasons it is still not simple. It's only the appearance that is simple. But basically there is a lot of truth in that statement. Still not easy or simple

[sandylee1]

But... if the WS was the same in every other aspect of their life and nobody noticed a change at all... wouldn't that point to a problem with the relationship more than a flaw in the person? Hm.

 

Not necessarily. Could just be that they got tempted and the relationship was fine. I've no doubt some relationships are troubled, but honesty and divorce beat being a cheater IMO.

 

Cheating is so destructive and whilst you may say everything else in their lives was normal - it casts doubt on their integrity and morals across a whole range of issues.

[BetrayedH]

Forgiveness is never for her; her deeds are unforgivable; it's always for me so I don't have to carry the past with me and be the prisoner of this past for the rest of my life.

 

I've found that the definition of forgiveness varies widely here. Personally, I believe your definition of forgiveness (above) is more akin to acceptance. I do believe, whether you choose to reconcile with her or not, you need to get to a stage in life where you can accept that this has happened and move past it. That IS something that you need to do for you. I don't personally think that has anything to do with forgiving your wife but I respect that many people see it that way.

 

If you believe, as you stated above, that her deeds are unforgivable then I kindly suggest that you're not a candidate for reconciliation. That's not meant to be a slight on you. I simply don't believe that either of you will have a marriage worth being in.

[Marc878]

That's a good point but for many reasons it is still not simple. It's only the appearance that is simple. But basically there is a lot of truth in that statement. Still not easy or simple

 

You're correct, it's not easy but it will come down to what I stated unless you just stay for the kids and become bitter/ miserable.

 

I do hope it works out good for you. Whichever way you choose.

 

Just a crappy situation all the way around

[HereNorThere]

The great thing about this forum is that it gives you a glimpse into your future life if you decide to stay with a know adulterer.

 

Look, you don't want to be here a couple of years from now grasping for straws and looking for ANYTHING to confirm you made the right choice. This isn't about a single action that your wife committed, it's about her personality and what's she's capable of. Now that you know, are you really going to set yourself up for more heartache and pain? Plus, I think you know deep down you are getting a very trickle truthed version of events. I know that if you dig a little deeper, chances are this has been going on a long time and it's not guilt and remorse that drove her confession. Usually it comes down to the fact that someone threatened to tell on her, so she came up with the best story possible to beat them to the punch. There are very, very few people here who ever got the full story from their spouse.

 

Please take the time to read the reconciled BS's threads and do a cost benefit analysis of their decision. You'll notice that very few of them every really gain anything from it. For the most part, they're simply people who have a developed a co-dependency on their narcissistic, abusive spouses. They tolerate that life because they've been made to believe that they simply can't do better. They rationalize, justify and try their hardest, but truthfully most of them live a horrible, tormented life.

 

For some people, the unknown is scarier that than staying with the abuser. So much so that battered wife syndrome is a known psychological condition. Hopefully you'll make it out with some of your pride and self-esteem left, but there's a lot of people who don't. Get yourself to a counselor and get as far away from this toxic person as possible. Literally, your life depends on it. The stress of staying with someone like this will shorten lifespan tremendously.

 

Godspeed.

[BetrayedH]

The great thing about this forum is that it gives you a glimpse into your future life if you decide to stay with a know adulterer.

 

Look, you don't want to be here a couple of years from now grasping for straws and looking for ANYTHING to confirm you made the right choice. This isn't about a single action that your wife committed, it's about her personality and what's she's capable of. Now that you know, are you really going to set yourself up for more heartache and pain? Plus, I think you know deep down you are getting a very trickle truthed version of events. I know that if you dig a little deeper, chances are this has been going on a long time and it's not guilt and remorse that drove her confession. Usually it comes down to the fact that someone threatened to tell on her, so she came up with the best story possible to beat them to the punch. There are very, very few people here who ever got the full story from their spouse.

 

Please take the time to read the reconciled BS's threads and do a cost benefit analysis of their decision. You'll notice that very few of them every really gain anything from it. For the most part, they're simply people who have a developed a co-dependency on their narcissistic, abusive spouses. They tolerate that life because they've been made to believe that they simply can't do better. They rationalize, justify and try their hardest, but truthfully most of them live a horrible, tormented life.

 

For some people, the unknown is scarier that than staying with the abuser. So much so that battered wife syndrome is a known psychological condition. Hopefully you'll make it out with some of your pride and self-esteem left, but there's a lot of people who don't. Get yourself to a counselor and get as far away from this toxic person as possible. Literally, your life depends on it. The stress of staying with someone like this will shorten lifespan tremendously.

 

Godspeed.

 

While I think it's legit to question whether this was truly a voluntary confession, I do think we've seen our fair share of examples of waywards that made voluntary confessions and did not trickle the truth. I think it's a stretch to say that you know that if he digs deeper, he'll find more. Some confessions are forced. Some are not.

 

And there most certainly are examples of successful reconciliations here that pass the smell test. They don't always stick around. Owl, Furious, and Spark are good examples. They are not tortured souls. Their presence here is missed.

Edited September 20, 2015 by BetrayedH

[HereNorThere]

I wouldn't overgeneralize and say there are no successful reconciliations, but I do think that the even what most people consider "successful" still do not meet my standards. For the most part, it really comes down to whether or not can accept your spouse for who they are, cheating and all. People very rarely (if ever) change their core personality type. If anything, this forum has really opened my eyes to the type of person who commits this sort of heinous act. I previously held the belief that anyone could make this sort of mistake by accident, but now I realize it takes a special kind of selfishness to look at your child everyday while you simultaneously endanger their future and break their home. I'm simply amazed how similar every BS's story tends to be. It always involves a super self-centered partner who could rationalize any kind of behavior. I've learned to watch for the "rationalization hamster" now in other people. That one little characteristic is the probably the number one red flag I look for. Even now, OP's wife is rationalizing her actions through remorse. In her mind, it's not that bad because she feels bad about it. She's still a good person because a bad person wouldn't feel bad. It's a vicious, vicious cycle.

 

Very, very few people on this forum received the absolute truth the first time around. Besides that, I don't believe someone that's willing to hurt their kids and family in this way is really even capable of it. Not because they are bad, but the ego has to defend itself. Most people are not going to ever admit to themselves that their infidelity is child abuse, even if the statistics show that divorced children end up with similar consequences. Infidelity has a butterfly effect that ripples throughout time. You not only hurt your spouse and children, you hurt your children's children's children's children and their future family. This kind of behavior influences generation after generation and very few people are left unscathed. Even if the BS leaves and finds a faithful partner, that new partner has to deal with some of the consequences.

 

So sure, there are successful reconciliations. However, that doesn't mean they are worth it. You can keep repairing an old beat up car, but you can't be surprised when it leaves you broken down on the side of the road. Sometimes it better just to trade it in and get something reliable. There's nothing like that new car smell, ya know.

Edited September 20, 2015 by HereNorThere

[GrandFunkRailroad]

The great thing about this forum is that it gives you a glimpse into your future life if you decide to stay with a know adulterer.

 

Look, you don't want to be here a couple of years from now grasping for straws and looking for ANYTHING to confirm you made the right choice. This isn't about a single action that your wife committed, it's about her personality and what's she's capable of. Now that you know, are you really going to set yourself up for more heartache and pain? Plus, I think you know deep down you are getting a very trickle truthed version of events. I know that if you dig a little deeper, chances are this has been going on a long time and it's not guilt and remorse that drove her confession. Usually it comes down to the fact that someone threatened to tell on her, so she came up with the best story possible to beat them to the punch. There are very, very few people here who ever got the full story from their spouse.

 

Please take the time to read the reconciled BS's threads and do a cost benefit analysis of their decision. You'll notice that very few of them every really gain anything from it. For the most part, they're simply people who have a developed a co-dependency on their narcissistic, abusive spouses. They tolerate that life because they've been made to believe that they simply can't do better. They rationalize, justify and try their hardest, but truthfully most of them live a horrible, tormented life.

 

For some people, the unknown is scarier that than staying with the abuser. So much so that battered wife syndrome is a known psychological condition. Hopefully you'll make it out with some of your pride and self-esteem left, but there's a lot of people who don't. Get yourself to a counselor and get as far away from this toxic person as possible. Literally, your life depends on it. The stress of staying with someone like this will shorten lifespan tremendously.

 

Godspeed.

 

 

Look, you don't want to be here a couple of years from now grasping for straws and looking for ANYTHING to confirm you made the right choice. This isn't about a single action that your wife committed, it's about her personality and what's she's capable of. Now that you know, are you really going to set yourself up for more heartache and pain? Plus, I think you know deep down you are getting a very trickle truthed version of events. I know that if you dig a little deeper, chances are this has been going on a long time and it's not guilt and remorse that drove her confession. Usually it comes down to the fact that someone threatened to tell on her, so she came up with the best story possible to beat them to the punch. There are very, very few people here who ever got the full story from their spouse.

 

Well, I want to put it that way. First of all, right now I haven't heard by my choice all of her story. I was at DDay so furious and raging that I even did not want to listen to her. Second, even when she'll tell me, I will never know for sure if it's the truth unless I cross check it through a Poly-Test. What I have decided is to ask for the truth as there is no divorce on the table. She suggested and offered already herself to do the test. What I am thinking is actually to do the test in to different companies so that I cross check not only the truth but also the results but also exclude the chance that there was a mistake in the test and so on. Anyway, my gut is telling me and I am rarely wrong on my intuition that the basic story, actually the story as she presented to me is correct and I do believe that to a high degree her remorse is genuine. Now, how I know that the basics were correct. I know from personal experience how those large national corporation evenings work. Normally, there are people coming from all over the country or from different districts. Most of the time people working in different districts have no contact one with each other; very often people can work for years and meet for the first time at such an evening; very often those evening are organized in big hotels so there is plenty of possibilities to be sneaky without actually have planned it; so it could even be a classical on in terms of hooking up with a person you meet for the first time. If this was the case?! Right now it is everything speculation and I don't know. I have to ask her and then verify and cross check it in a Poly-Test. However, what I was pointing in many of my posts is that even if her remorse is true, which I believe it is, even in the case that her basic story is correct, so even in that case because remorse although necessary initial conditioning for true reconciliation not some hypocritically presented fake marriage on paper is only half of the picture, it is still not enough to consider reconciliation. That's the problem. However, I do want to know now the truth and this is why I will undertake the steps mentioned above. Why? Because she is not going to disappear from my life even if I divorce her; she's the mother of my children. A certain relationship with her should be there even if it ends in divorce. Theoretically, I could not only forgive but also reconcile with her after the divorce; yet, even in that case I don't have to give her a second chance. Those are different things.

 

Please take the time to read the reconciled BS's threads and do a cost benefit analysis of their decision. You'll notice that very few of them every really gain anything from it. For the most part, they're simply people who have a developed a co-dependency on their narcissistic, abusive spouses. They tolerate that life because they've been made to believe that they simply can't do better. They rationalize, justify and try their hardest, but truthfully most of them live a horrible, tormented life.

 

This is true. This is very correct. This is why I say that even if we end in divorce I still can forgive her, in some cases reconcile with her but I don't need to give a second chance. I have read somewhere and I find it correct that reconciliation and a second chance depend a lot on something we can call risk management; the question if I am secure with that person. Because what you're saying is correct, I still emphasize that I can forgive (I even don't need to be in contact with her for that), in some cases I can even reconcile but I don't have to give her a second chance and be involved with her on a daily basis.

 

For some people, the unknown is scarier that than staying with the abuser.

 

This is also true and it must be approached in my opinion in the same way I have described above.

Edited September 20, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[BetrayedH]

I wouldn't overgeneralize and say there are no successful reconciliations, but I do think that the even what most people consider "successful" still do not meet my standards. For the most part, it really comes down to whether or not can accept your spouse for who they are, cheating and all. People very rarely (if ever) change their core personality type. If anything, this forum has really opened my eyes to the type of person who commits this sort of heinous act. I previously held the belief that anyone could make this sort of mistake by accident, but now I realize it takes a special kind of selfishness to look at your child everyday while you simultaneously endanger their future and break their home. I'm simply amazed how similar every BS's story tends to be. It always involves a super self-centered partner who could rationalize any kind of behavior. I've learned to watch for the "rationalization hamster" now in other people. That one little characteristic is the probably the number one red flag I look for. Even now, OP's wife is rationalizing her actions through remorse. In her mind, it's not that bad because she feels bad about it. She's still a good person because a bad person wouldn't feel bad. It's a vicious, vicious cycle.

 

Very, very few people on this forum received the absolute truth the first time around. Besides that, I don't believe someone that's willing to hurt their kids and family in this way is really even capable of it. Not because they are bad, but the ego has to defend itself. Most people are not going to ever admit to themselves that their infidelity is child abuse, even if the statistics show that divorced children end up with similar consequences. Infidelity has a butterfly effect that ripples throughout time. You not only hurt your spouse and children, you hurt your children's children's children's children and their future family. This kind of behavior influences generation after generation and very few people are left unscathed. Even if the BS leaves and finds a faithful partner, that new partner has to deal with some of the consequences.

 

So sure, there are successful reconciliations. However, that doesn't mean they are worth it. You can keep repairing an old beat up car, but you can't be surprised when it leaves you broken down on the side of the road. Sometimes it better just to trade it in and get something reliable. There's nothing like that new car smell, ya know.

 

I agree on the ripple effect of infidelity. It really is astonishing how much damage is wrought. I really had no idea.

 

I also agree that the number of successful reconciliations is pretty limited. I think the best hope is when it was a drunken one-night stand that was immediately and voluntarily confessed. This one seems to be pretty close to that but perhaps there's more to know.

 

But as I've mentioned prior, the remorseful wayward is only half the equation. The BS has to be a rare breed as well, and I don't think the ability to forgive makes them a doormat. Sadly, finding a combination of the two is a tall order and the failure rate is high even though many may try.

[BetrayedH]

If what you already know is unforgivable, what good are the details going to do you?

 

I'd suggest that you'll just be dragging you both through the mud, and that it'll do more damage to your strained relationship. Having her recite the story and submit to a polygraph (you do realize those are a joke, right?) is simply going to create false hope for her, which will eventually morph into resentment.

 

File for divorce. Make it clear that it's non-negotiable. And otherwise, take the high road whenever you can for the sake of your children.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

I wouldn't overgeneralize and say there are no successful reconciliations, but I do think that the even what most people consider "successful" still do not meet my standards. For the most part, it really comes down to whether or not can accept your spouse for who they are, cheating and all. People very rarely (if ever) change their core personality type. If anything, this forum has really opened my eyes to the type of person who commits this sort of heinous act. I previously held the belief that anyone could make this sort of mistake by accident, but now I realize it takes a special kind of selfishness to look at your child everyday while you simultaneously endanger their future and break their home. I'm simply amazed how similar every BS's story tends to be. It always involves a super self-centered partner who could rationalize any kind of behavior. I've learned to watch for the "rationalization hamster" now in other people. That one little characteristic is the probably the number one red flag I look for. Even now, OP's wife is rationalizing her actions through remorse. In her mind, it's not that bad because she feels bad about it. She's still a good person because a bad person wouldn't feel bad. It's a vicious, vicious cycle.

 

Very, very few people on this forum received the absolute truth the first time around. Besides that, I don't believe someone that's willing to hurt their kids and family in this way is really even capable of it. Not because they are bad, but the ego has to defend itself. Most people are not going to ever admit to themselves that their infidelity is child abuse, even if the statistics show that divorced children end up with similar consequences. Infidelity has a butterfly effect that ripples throughout time. You not only hurt your spouse and children, you hurt your children's children's children's children and their future family. This kind of behavior influences generation after generation and very few people are left unscathed. Even if the BS leaves and finds a faithful partner, that new partner has to deal with some of the consequences.

 

So sure, there are successful reconciliations. However, that doesn't mean they are worth it. You can keep repairing an old beat up car, but you can't be surprised when it leaves you broken down on the side of the road. Sometimes it better just to trade it in and get something reliable. There's nothing like that new car smell, ya know.

 

I wouldn't overgeneralize and say there are no successful reconciliations, but I do think that the even what most people consider "successful" still do not meet my standards.

 

I agree with you on that and what people do is normally rationalize, repress, suppress and live in self-denial. Basically, they do it by turning and describing suffering as happiness and describing and turning happiness into suffering. It is a very subtle process.

 

People very rarely (if ever) change their core personality type.

 

I think what has to be changed is not the personality, as you say it can be very rarely changed; but down deep a person must accept his shadow and learn not to act on, being affected and influenced by it. People who never cheat are not people who are not capable of doing it or are not tempted, but people who are aware of this capability do not deny it, have this insight, humility to admit it and then the resolution to build strong boundaries and motivation to follow through it including excellent coping skills they have developed. Yes, indeed very few people can go through it or the chance that you won’t be hurt again in the learning process is very low. This is risk management; normally the risk isn't worth the reconciliation and the second chance.

 

If anything, this forum has really opened my eyes to the type of person who commits this sort of heinous act. I previously held the belief that anyone could make this sort of mistake by accident, but now I realize it takes a special kind of selfishness to look at your child everyday while you simultaneously endanger their future and break their home. I'm simply amazed how similar every BS's story tends to be. It always involves a super self-centered partner who could rationalize any kind of behavior. I've learned to watch for the "rationalization hamster" now in other people. That one little characteristic is the probably the number one red flag I look for.

 

You are once again on spot with this observation. In my opinion all of the affairs are rooted basically in:

1.Selfishness (hedonism, self-entitlement and so on )

2.Ignorance (stupidity and so on)

3.Ill will (Not caring and giving a though about the consequences among many others for example

 

The next set involves

 

1.Lack of morality

2.Lack of Integrity

3.Lack of boundaries

4.Lack of coping skills

5.Deceitfulness

 

 

Most people are not going to ever admit to themselves that their infidelity is child abuse, even if the statistics show that divorced children end up with similar consequences.

 

Not only this, but very few people are going to admit that infidelity is a kind of IPV (intimate partner violence) and Partner abuse – for sure it is an emotional, mental (trickle truth, blame shifting, withdrawal of affection, gas lighting and many more) as well as sometimes even physical abuse when STD's are transmitted.

 

Infidelity has a butterfly effect that ripples throughout time. You not only hurt your spouse and children, you hurt your children's children's children's children and their future family. This kind of behavior influences generation after generation and very few people are left unscathed. Even if the BS leaves and finds a faithful partner, that new partner has to deal with some of the consequences.

 

In fact, infidelity has even a wider butterfly effect as it also affect the relationships between the genders and even inside the same gender. You become suspicious of the other gender, you become suspicious to people within your gender, some resort to hate and so on. The effect of infidelity is devastating

Edited September 20, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[GrandFunkRailroad]

If what you already know is unforgivable, what good are the details going to do you?

 

I'd suggest that you'll just be dragging you both through the mud, and that it'll do more damage to your strained relationship. Having her recite the story and submit to a polygraph (you do realize those are a joke, right?) is simply going to create false hope for her, which will eventually morph into resentment.

 

File for divorce. Make it clear that it's non-negotiable. And otherwise, take the high road whenever you can for the sake of your children.

 

 

If what you already know is unforgivable, what good are the details going to do you?

 

I have answered this in my other replies above. Besides this it really depends what do I need to know. It is clear not everything is important.

 

I'd suggest that you'll just be dragging you both through the mud, and that it'll do more damage to your strained relationship. Having her recite the story and submit to a polygraph (you do realize those are a joke, right?) is simply going to create false hope for her, which will eventually morph into resentment.

 

I don't think so and it is clear that both sides have to agree to the Poly-Test and the term to it as well as the terms of the process we are going to take. Her refusal to do it, will be one of the greatest evidences everything is a show. As I stated she suggested the Poly-Test herself so I don't think it is correct

Edited September 20, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[HereNorThere]

You do seem to think a little bit more deeply than they average poster and you've definitely done some introspection. I highly doubt someone with your capacity and personality type will be at peace until the figure out the whole story.

 

Some people are different and it makes it easier for them to deny, rug sweep or accept and move on. I hate to use the word forgive because it means so many things to different people and by dictionary definition, very few people can actually claim they're actually capable of true forgiveness because it's such an involuntary thing, but there are people that can do it. It's just that in my experience, they don't tend to be people like you. Acceptance seems to be the more obtainable goal.

 

Reconcillation doesn't seem to be a thinking man's game. Long term, the more intelligent, introspective people tend be bothered by the Universal injustice and imbalance more than the average person. The cognitive dissonance created seems too much like betraying your own values and principles and tends leave a permanent bitter taste in your mouth. Like I said previously, just because reconciliation is possible doesn't mean it's worth it.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

HNT

 

You do seem to think a little bit more deeply than they average poster and you've definitely done some introspection. I highly doubt someone with your capacity and personality type will be at peace until the figure out the whole story.

 

Once again you're on spot with this. The more I become calm, if one can say it, the more the days go by and I don't let the anger which is still there, to affect my decisions I do need as you say to know the whole truth. I believe that putting an end to my suffering one day thus to everyone around me in this mess, forgiving is not enough but you need to gain wisdom which comes from insight.

 

Either way, both of them eventually come as a pair. Forgiveness is merely helping you to put your past suffering to an end so that you are no more imprisoned by it; by its definition it can't help you with the future; you can't forgive in advance someting in the future, that's delusion too; to be able to be at peace with the future and eventually prevent further suffering from arising or developing better skills to cope with it you need wisdom based on insight.

 

Just to give one example, if you want to pursue a new relationship, you should be able to analyze your FOO issues and see how and if they contributed to your decisions that get you involved with a cheater. If you don't want, you still need to make a wise decision but not a cowardly escape. Escapism never works, it's delusion and is rooted once again in igmarance, denial, aversion and suppression, Basically, wisdom and insight support all of the process; forgiveness, acceptance and so on rely and rest on this wisdom and insight but without the wisdom it is naïve and ineffective.

 

 

Some people are different and it makes it easier for them to deny, rug sweep or accept and move on.

 

I do agree that there are different people but once again they need at least so much wisdom and integrity to admit that they aren't able to cope with the situation more than the denying, rug sweeping and so on. At least their suffering ceases to the degree of their insight, humility and integrity. However, people who even aren't in the possession of such kind of wisdom, integrity and humility are experiencing as you said a tormented life with their abusive partner. They live in self-denial rationalizing it as I said by turning happiness into suffering and suffering into happiness.

Edited September 20, 2015 by GrandFunkRailroad

[Horton]

If anything, this forum has really opened my eyes to the type of person who commits this sort of heinous act. I previously held the belief that anyone could make this sort of mistake by accident, but now I realize it takes a special kind of selfishness to look at your child everyday while you simultaneously endanger their future and break their home. I'm simply amazed how similar every BS's story tends to be. It always involves a super self-centered partner who could rationalize any kind of behavior. I've learned to watch for the "rationalization hamster" now in other people. That one little characteristic is the probably the number one red flag I look for. Even now, OP's wife is rationalizing her actions through remorse. In her mind, it's not that bad because she feels bad about it. She's still a good person because a bad person wouldn't feel bad. It's a vicious, vicious cycle.

 

I know what you mean about this place(and others like it) somewhat changing your preconceived notions about this stuff. Before I started reading different sites like this I still had a fairly strong affinity toward the concept of reconciling with a truly remorseful cheater, but the amount of seemingly redeemed FWW's I've seen lamenting the loss of their AP, sometimes even years later, breaking NC/continuing the PA under their BH's nose and even convincing themselves(with help from other posters) that not telling their BH is somehow an act of mercy has really done a number on my previously held 'unicorns and rainbows' view of reconciliation. George Carlin said that 'inside every cynical person there is a disappointed idealist', that's kind of how I see myself now.

 

Having said that, I do still believe that there are some WS's that are sincerely remorseful for what they've done(I have no idea if OP's wife is among them or not) I suppose only time will tell, but I'd be lying if I said that I felt completely comfortable with the idea of encouraging an emotionally distraught BS to take such a huge risk with their well being by placing it in the hands of an (unconfirmed)reformed abuser (adultery is abuse IMO). Don't get me wrong if they decide that's whats best for their family I won't attempt to shame them for their decision, but I think it would be doing them a disservice to pretend like they're not taking any risk at all or even to fail to point out any potential 'red flags' that we happen to notice. (Some very pro-reconciliation posters don't seem to understand that there's a difference.)

 

One other thing that I think also pertains to your post and the OP's situation is just how many BH's(not so much BW's from what I've seen) are pretty blunt in stating that the main reasons they decided to reconcile in the first place were reasons that have almost nothing to do with their love for their wife. This also stopped me in my tracks upon encountering it, as I just always kinda assumed that most men who choose to stay do so out of love for their WS, but it seems like that's generally not the case. The amount of BH's I've witnessed who admit that if there were no kids involved they would have split is very telling to me as to where their mind is really at.

 

As many BH's there are that find it disheartening to read so many FWW's pining away for their AP's, I imagine it must be equally deflating for wives who truly regret their affairs to read so many BH's advising anybody without kids to just throw in the towel, like it's not even worth the effort of trying if she's the only reason to stay.

 

If the main reason for reconciling a marriage that's been tainted by adultery is a father's fear of what will happen to his relationship with his kids, then can that marriage ever be considered reconciled? That sounds like settling to me. I'm not saying that somebody in that position should absolutely get divorced. I get the concept of staying for the kids and I know there's a lot of truth behind those fears so many BH's have about being forced into a 'weekend dad' role, but I don't see that as the 'happy ending' it's so often touted as, seems more like throwing oneself on a grenade to prevent any more casualties. A noble act no doubt, but not a fairy tale ending by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe that's a part of the problem, perhaps the 'reconciliation and recovery industry' (as the OP put it) has oversold this concept to the masses and the forecast is not really as optimistic as they led us all to believe.

 

Personally I see it as more like parole than anything else, every prisoner claims they're reformed, but only a small minority of them actually are. There's so many of them who go on to reoffend after being released, that the few of them who are actually changed/redeemed will be viewed with an (IMO)understandable caution by the public, most of whom are just waiting for the day they finally take off their mask and reveal themselves to still be the same reprobate they suspected them of being all along. Some of them never do reoffend though, but maybe all of those leery eyes are just another consequence of their actions. Chickens coming home to roost as people used to say.

[drifter777]

While I think it's legit to question whether this was truly a voluntary confession, I do think we've seen our fair share of examples of waywards that made voluntary confessions and did not trickle the truth. I think it's a stretch to say that you know that if he digs deeper, he'll find more. Some confessions are forced. Some are not.

 

And there most certainly are examples of successful reconciliations here that pass the smell test. They don't always stick around. Owl, Furious, and Spark are good examples. They are not tortured souls. Their presence here is missed.

 

Huh? I don't recall a single case on here when a WW confessed and held nothing back. Holding back the truth about when, where, how often is common and lying about the sex is a sure bet.

[HereNorThere]

P.S. - if you live in an alimony state, I would highly encourage you to convince your (ex) wife to keep her job. Otherwise, you literally could be paying your wife to cheat on you. However, there's a likelihood that she isn't quitting on your behalf. There's always the possibility that she's getting out because someone is going to rat out the affair.

 

Also, once the dust settles and everything is finalized, make sure that you disclose everything to her employer, family, friends and especially anyone associated with the AP. Not out of vengeance, but self-preservation. The rationalization hamster is usually pretty good at turnings things around and making you look bad, so it's important to get the truth on record as soon as possible. By this point, you really should be contacting her family and setting the record straight. You would be surprised the lengths these people will go to to make you look like the bad guy and preserve their ego.

 

And polys are a good way to get a parking lot confession, but a good private investigator is truly your best bet. I would leave no piece of electronic communication unturned. Your wife may be a good liar, but those records and evidence won't lie. It might be better to have that stuff done sooner rather than later because the longer you wait, the less evidence there will be to examine.

[cgiles]

Thanks for your answer.

 

If you will be able or not to reconcile, only you can answer to it.

 

As you was doing your homework, and exploring the industry of reconciliation, did you read it takes between 2 to 5 for a real reconciliation happens ?

 

The 4 questions you have are totally right and justified.

 

The most important, is to respect yourself, before taking care of your feelings for her.

 

You love her or who she was, but in the same time you have to make the choice which will make you suffer the less possible.

 

You have the foundation for succeed a real reconciliation : a long time relationship, and kids.

 

I don't say you should stay for kids or because of the sunk cost fallacy, I just point you have what it needs for do a real reconciliation.

 

Then you can do it, and if in 1 year you don't feel it's for you, leave.

 

I think for now you shouldn't put divorce vs real reconcilition.

 

Treat your marriage as business, and end the contract which binds you to her.

 

Like you said, it will show to her you are not granted, you are not her pet ( she doesn't decide what is good for you or not, like she did when she retained the info).

 

The mind movies, how you imagine his hands on her, are very common, your main issue is your wife is the main trigger of them.

 

Counselling can help you with them.

 

You didn't said if you had PTSD from your military's life. Being betrayed, can make PTSD happens, so be careful about this.