She had an ONS, now she's "SOOOOOO" "remorseful" and wants to save the marriage

[fellini]

So from my reading this last day or so it seems the issues of infidelity are very clear:

 

All Cheaters are selfish broken immoral lying POS's who don't deserve another chance.

 

All BS's (probably given the level of testosterone in the last posts, more specifically BH's) WHO RECONCILE are spineless, insecure, weak-minded blind scared accommodating and rug-sweeping dormats who haven't the balls to man up and leave their cheating partners on the curb.

 

The only possible response to an infidelity ONS or otherwise is divorce. Divorce and if kids are involved, find some modicum of politeness.

 

Obviously though of us who are/have reconciled have nothing to contribute to LS because we are frankly, delusion and weak and scared of our own shadow.

 

Whatever gets you guys through the night.

Edited September 20, 2015 by fellini

[HereNorThere]

So from my reading this last day or so it seems the issues of infidelity are very clear:

 

All Cheaters are selfish broken immoral lying POS's who don't deserve another chance.

 

All BS's (probably given the level of testosterone in the last posts, more specifically BH's) WHO RECONCILE are spineless, insecure, weak-minded blind scared accommodating and rug-sweeping dormats who haven't the balls to man up and leave their cheating partners on the curb.

 

The only possible response to an infidelity ONS or otherwise is divorce. Divorce and if kids are involved, find some modicum of politeness.

 

Obviously though of us who are/have reconciled have nothing to contribute to LS because we are frankly, delusion and weak and scared of our own shadow.

 

Whatever gets you guys through the night.

 

I think this particular post overgeneralizes a more than the previous ones, but I see where you are coming from.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a cheater that wasn't selfish, broken, immoral during their abuse because cheating is such a selfish, broken and immoral act. It almost seems silly to try to deny this fact. If you believe people can drastically change in a short time period, that is your right. It's just that based on my research on psychology and speaking with many professionals, I do not believe it's that easy.

 

Everyone has a different opinion on second chances, but the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Personally, I don't think second chances are always a bad thing. The part I have a problem with is that a lot of these reconciliations you speak of required more than one extra chance. A lot of BS have to tolerate continual lying and gas lighting for a while. You've stated that's acceptable to you and that's your right. However, I worry that most people would end up severely traumatized if they allowed this.

 

The reasons a victim would stay with their abuser are many, but being scared is definitely one of them. It's hard to to discount this when it's so prevalent. Most people have already mapped out their reality and changing all that up is hard for them. Sometimes people would rather be with the devil they know than the devil they don't. That doesn't mean anyone thinks being scared is the only reason.

 

Everyone has a story to tell and I honestly think yours is probably one of the best ones OP could benefit from reading. While much more heinous than the story he was told by his partner, it still follows a particular pattern that really could help him makes sense of things. Thank you for sharing it with us. Honestly, it's another one of those threads that should just be required to read. I'm sorry you had to to go through it, but by documenting it in such detail, really helps people get a glimpse into what's it's like to reconcile with someone who isn't immediately remorseful, faithful, willing to change circumstances, etc. I'm sorry you had to go through it, but sometimes it is really enlightening for poster's to see the worst case scenario and lengths that some people will go to. I can say your story most certainly changed my world view and I encourage OP to soak in as much of it as he can.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

CGILES

 

Thanks again for your post. You asked me if I had PTSD from my military life. The answer to your question is that I had a trauma and Complex PTSD as a result of it following other things. However, I didn't use it as excuse and acted on it by cheating on my spouse and let my family be affected by it, nor I let my wife carry the burden of my duties in the relationship. I sought immediately help, I went to psychotherapy, and I have undergone an immense spiritual training to deal with it. I have dealt with all of my demons and issues. The problem is that this all has led me now to re-experience all of the trauma and pain as they were really re-occurring right now.

 

Thus I have today the coping skills, it does not affect me in the same way as to my responses but the pain is real. I think it is the reason why many soldiers that were betrayed as you said are saying that the betrayal of infidelity is much worse than everything they've experienced in that battlefield. It is to take this trauma and multiply it. If to use military terminology it's like a cluster bomb has exploded in your mind or more correctly it is like walking into a mine field where one bomb went off and all the other bombs in the mine field have exploded. I have checked it and it seems that I am not the only soldier who re-experiences it that way.

[fellini]

Personally I think there is a huge difference between having an opinion, or not seeing eye to eye and making huge generalizations about a group of people who actually exist in this community. Why people like yourself feel obliged to belittle BS's who do not see eye to eye with those who chose not to reconcile, with the kinds of comments you have made in this thread is beyond me. If what you say below is true, then this is what you perhaps should be saying and leave it at that.

 

All some of us ask is that you show the same respect to those of us who have reconciled that 100% of us have shown to those who do not. You will find it difficult if not impossible to locate a post in LS in which a reconciling BS portrays someone who "kicked his WW to the curb" with the same kind of disdain and demeaning comments about them as human beings. Why BS's or worse, those who haven't even suffered infidelity think they can abuse a BS who reconciles is beyond me.

 

I do not see how it helps anyone to make the kinds of bold assertions you make. It's only possible to believe what you are saying if you purposefully ignore MANY, not just one or two but many threads in LS about reconciliation. Surely it is possible for you and others to realise that if you have not walked in our shoes your perspective is limited to what you THINK you know about what is going on.

 

If "the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour" we would all be walking around like infants touching hot stoves and sticking our fingers in light sockets and liking metal lamp poles in winter. No, that is a cliche and needs to be called into question what in common sense simply tells us it is what it is, but there is more to the story of human behaviour than that simple phrase.

 

I have not stated the things you claim I have. I have stated, for example that trickle truth and gaslighting (actually I haven't mentioned gaslighting in years, but no difference) are part of the process of working through the early stages in post DDAY recovery. I have never said I am ok with it.

 

And if it takes some people 2 or 3 years to reach a level of reconciliation with someone they wish to spend the remainder of their lives with, I think that's fine.

 

I'm not going to tell my daughter that she shouldn't bother to study Medicine because who know if she will still feel the same way about being a doctor after 5 or more years of enormous effort. (And please don't accuse me of reducing infidelity to a career choice, I am not). If it is not so hard to imagine anyone going through hard work to come out on the other side with a piece of paper, then I don't see why people have to criticize BS's who wish to do the hard work required to come out on the other side with the expectations of a life partner. If you are not up for the task, fine, but why shouldn't those of us who are willing to try.

 

And if my daughter gets her law or medicine or architecture degree, and then abandons it shortly after because she would rather be a pro surfer in Bali, so be it. It's her one life to live as she pleases. And it is not my job to dissuade her from pursuing what makes sense to her NOW, just because of some future unknown that I imagine for her.

 

 

I think this particular post overgeneralizes a more than the previous ones, but I see where you are coming from.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a cheater that wasn't selfish, broken, immoral during their abuse because cheating is such a selfish, broken and immoral act. It almost seems silly to try to deny this fact. If you believe people can drastically change in a short time period, that is your right. It's just that based on my research on psychology and speaking with many professionals, I do not believe it's that easy.

 

Everyone has a different opinion on second chances, but the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Personally, I don't think second chances are always a bad thing. The part I have a problem with is that a lot of these reconciliations you speak of required more than one extra chance. A lot of BS have to tolerate continual lying and gas lighting for a while. You've stated that's acceptable to you and that's your right. However, I worry that most people would end up severely traumatized if they allowed this.

 

The reasons a victim would stay with their abuser are many, but being scared is definitely one of them. It's hard to to discount this when it's so prevalent. Most people have already mapped out their reality and changing all that up is hard for them. Sometimes people would rather be with the devil they know than the devil they don't. That doesn't mean anyone thinks being scared is the only reason.

 

Everyone has a story to tell and I honestly think yours is probably one of the best ones OP could benefit from reading. While much more heinous than the story he was told by his partner, it still follows a particular pattern that really could help him makes sense of things. Thank you for sharing it with us. Honestly, it's another one of those threads that should just be required to read. I'm sorry you had to to go through it, but by documenting it in such detail, really helps people get a glimpse into what's it's like to reconcile with someone who isn't immediately remorseful, faithful, willing to change circumstances, etc. I'm sorry you had to go through it, but sometimes it is really enlightening for poster's to see the worst case scenario and lengths that some people will go to. I can say your story most certainly changed my world view and I encourage OP to soak in as much of it as he can.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.

[SummerDreams]

Fellini, I read your posts and I have two thoughts. First, why do you care what strangers like us think of your choice to reconcile since you feel so satisfied and strong about this choice? Second, I think the reason people are getting "upset" with real stories of betrayed spouses having chosen reconciliation may be that people are scared subconsciously that if reconciliation becomes the norm then all spouses will have it just easier to cheat and know that they will have no consequences. People want to be sure that people know for a fact that cheating will result in divorce so they feel more secure for their spouses not going to cheat. I don't know if I make myself clear.

[goodyblue]

I think this particular post overgeneralizes a more than the previous ones, but I see where you are coming from.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a cheater that wasn't selfish, broken, immoral during their abuse because cheating is such a selfish, broken and immoral act. It almost seems silly to try to deny this fact. If you believe people can drastically change in a short time period, that is your right. It's just that based on my research on psychology and speaking with many professionals, I do not believe it's that easy.

 

Everyone has a different opinion on second chances, but the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Personally, I don't think second chances are always a bad thing. The part I have a problem with is that a lot of these reconciliations you speak of required more than one extra chance. A lot of BS have to tolerate continual lying and gas lighting for a while. You've stated that's acceptable to you and that's your right. However, I worry that most people would end up severely traumatized if they allowed this.

 

The reasons a victim would stay with their abuser are many, but being scared is definitely one of them. It's hard to to discount this when it's so prevalent. Most people have already mapped out their reality and changing all that up is hard for them. Sometimes people would rather be with the devil they know than the devil they don't. That doesn't mean anyone thinks being scared is the only reason.

 

Everyone has a story to tell and I honestly think yours is probably one of the best ones OP could benefit from reading. While much more heinous than the story he was told by his partner, it still follows a particular pattern that really could help him makes sense of things. Thank you for sharing it with us. Honestly, it's another one of those threads that should just be required to read. I'm sorry you had to to go through it, but by documenting it in such detail, really helps people get a glimpse into what's it's like to reconcile with someone who isn't immediately remorseful, faithful, willing to change circumstances, etc. I'm sorry you had to go through it, but sometimes it is really enlightening for poster's to see the worst case scenario and lengths that some people will go to. I can say your story most certainly changed my world view and I encourage OP to soak in as much of it as he can.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.

 

I just find it interesting that you state all the psychological research you have done and in the next paragraph quote Dr. Phil.

 

And if someone is selfish, broken and immoral during the abuse (please ) then explain why there are so many blindsided BS's.

 

Never mind, don't. I am going to quietly eat my donut and coffee without reading this psychological drivel.

[HereNorThere]

Past behavior being an indicator of future behavior is a Universally accepted notion. Without out it, we wouldn't have any of the technology we have to today. No airplanes, weather predictions, antibiotics and nearly every advancement we have ever made. Those advancements were made by people smarter than us observing the Universe and making predictions based on those observations. A child touching stove isn't really a great example because a child does not have a fully formed brain nor the life experience he would need to make accurate predictions about the Universe. By the time you adulthood, you develop forethought which shields from having to actually touch the stove.

 

OP, as you can see, there are many viewpoints on this issue. I think it's great that you have this much information at your fingertips. I personally believe the you should weigh the cost and benefits of each scenario (but not everyone does). If we want to compare a reconciliation to some long, hard process like going to college to become a doctor, remember that one of them involves becoming a professional life saver with great income and the other just means you get your cheating wife back (which you were already supposed to have.)

 

As far as the majority of people championing one way or another, I think you'll always find that the majority is probably going to take the side that gets someone out of harm's way. I never hear people on advocating to put children into the hands of abusers or allowing cartels to traffic humans. For the most part, people want to see other people escape the pain and misery of being stuck in a situation like that.

 

We speak mostly with our actions, not with our words. That's why words of remorse seem so hollow and empty. The same thing applies when you say a behavior isn't tolerable and still allow someone to behave that way. Humans are very symbolic and science has proven that the majority of communication is non-verbal.

 

Everyone has a right to believe they want to believe and should be able to share their opinion without feeling slighted. I take no offense when someone disagrees with me, even when I'm the lone dissenting voice. I sincerely hope that everyone can reach that point because being able to share our experiences with you is what makes this place special.

[HereNorThere]

I just find it interesting that you state all the psychological research you have done and in the next paragraph quote Dr. Phil.

 

And if someone is selfish, broken and immoral during the abuse (please ) then explain why there are so many blindsided BS's.

 

Never mind, don't. I am going to quietly eat my donut and coffee without reading this psychological drivel.

 

Lol @ Dr. Phil. I encourage you to do a quick google search before saying something silly like that again. That appears in psychology textbooks long before Dr. Phil was even Dr. Phil. Some attributing it to psychologist Albert Ellis and some saying he actually ripped it off of a similar Mark Twain quote. Good try though!

 

And people are blind sided through manipulation and trust. There isn't a person here who has not dealt with that in one way, fashion or form. Are you saying you've never enstilled trusted a selfish, broken, immoral person only to later be burned by them? If you haven't, it sounds like hit you hit the emotional lottery. I wish we we could all be so lucky.

 

You have the right to believe that your cheating spouse did not fit that criteria. Not everyone who cheats does and if you feel like yours didn't, that is your right. I do not want to overgeneralize, only point out the similarities.

 

Good morning and I hope you are enjoying your donut.

[sandylee1]

Fellini, I read your posts and I have two thoughts. First, why do you care what strangers like us think of your choice to reconcile since you feel so satisfied and strong about this choice? Second, I think the reason people are getting "upset" with real stories of betrayed spouses having chosen reconciliation may be that people are scared subconsciously that if reconciliation becomes the norm then all spouses will have it just easier to cheat and know that they will have no consequences. People want to be sure that people know for a fact that cheating will result in divorce so they feel more secure for their spouses not going to cheat. I don't know if I make myself clear.

 

Good post.

 

"people are scared subconsciously that if reconciliation becomes the norm then all spouses will have it just easier to cheat and know that they will have no consequences."

 

^^^^ Is especially true. It often appears as though because some BSs have reconciled, they have a view that it's possible for everyone. If you reconcile, what consequences does /did your WS suffer?, because for me that is very important.

 

You don't get to have the fun of being with someone else, when I've had offers and shut them down, then expect forgiveness and reconciliation....not at all. I'd need a very big incentive to stay in the marriage after infidelity and "love' would not be enough.

 

For those who are able to reconcile - that's great, but when I continue to read BSs from years ago, it's clear they'll never really 'get over it ' - I don't see many WSs living with the fallout of their infidelity.

 

That single betrayal is enough and whilst some BSs do not wish to throw the marriage away because of that ' realise that your spouse didn't feel the same or just expected that reconciliation was a given.

 

Reconciliation does not make you a doormat, but I would expect an exceedingly humble, remorseful and apologetic spouse, ready to move mountains for me from thereon. Take it or leave it - those would be my terms.

 

OP - A ONS , confessed by a WS, is the most positive cheating scenario. She wasn't busted and it wasn't months or years, but the decision is yours and your alone.

[road]

P.S. - if you live in an alimony state, I would highly encourage you to convince your (ex) wife to keep her job. Otherwise, you literally could be paying your wife to cheat on you. However, there's a likelihood that she isn't quitting on your behalf. There's always the possibility that she's getting out because someone is going to rat out the affair.

 

 

 

Bad advice for allowing the WW to continue to work where the OM works has caused most affairs to restart and the marriage to end. WW needs a new job an will be able to get one.

[aliveagain]

Everyone's experience with infidelity is unique to some degree. Cheaters tend to have behaviours that are often similar regardless of age, culture, religion, political views, sex as in man/woman and financial status. We often refer to these behaviours as the cheaters hand book. Those that have been around for a while can often predict what they will do next based on their present and past behaviours(they lie, they have unprotected sex and it's almost always way worse than they confess to when confronted). This is why we always recommend that betrayed spouses talk to a lawyer, protect your children and your finances, get tested for all STD's(and if child bearing age and female, proof that they are not pregnant).

 

 

It is for GrandFunkRailroad to decide if a ONS is enough just cause to divorce. When a husband or wife has made their position on infidelity known from the beginning and their spouse is stupid enough to have sex or an emotional affair with someone else, well, they deserve whatever the betrayed spouse decides are appropriate consequences.

 

 

Like many betrayed spouses I made the same mistakes, begged, pleaded ate the sh*t sandwich and all that got me was a failed marriage, a failed engagement, stepped on humiliated and raised another man's child who I named after my deceased father for the first year of his life. It took me one failed marriage and two failed relationships(all three cheated on me) before I decided on zero tolerance with respect to infidelity. GrandFunkRailroad, regardless of what you read here you decide on how you want to deal with the cheater in your life because no mater what, you still have to live with yourself.

[autumnnight]

Railroad,

 

Your litre and choices area your own, and I almost never do this, but....

 

Based on everything you have written, I urge you with everything in her NOT to reconcile. Just gets the divorced over with and tree at each other fairly as coparents.

[goodyblue]

Lol @ Dr. Phil. I encourage you to do a quick google search before saying something silly like that again. That appears in psychology textbooks long before Dr. Phil was even Dr. Phil. Some attributing it to psychologist Albert Ellis and some saying he actually ripped it off of a similar Mark Twain quote. Good try though!

 

And people are blind sided through manipulation and trust. There isn't a person here who has not dealt with that in one way, fashion or form. Are you saying you've never enstilled trusted a selfish, broken, immoral person only to later be burned by them? If you haven't, it sounds like hit you hit the emotional lottery. I wish we we could all be so lucky.

 

You have the right to believe that your cheating spouse did not fit that criteria. Not everyone who cheats does and if you feel like yours didn't, that is your right. I do not want to overgeneralize, only point out the similarities.

 

Good morning and I hope you are enjoying your donut.

 

Actually, my point about Dr. Phil is that he works in generalizations which do not help anyone when they are miserable and struggling. It is like saying If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with'. It is so anticlimactic and just. Duh..

 

Also, my husband is neither a cheater not is he broken.

 

I do not subscribe to once a cheater always a cheater, people learn and grow, putting hard lessons learned to very good future use.

 

I think that is part of why Fellini was upset at your remarks.

 

Donut was delicious, coconut.☕

[fellini]

I am less disturbed by his comments about WS's than his assertion, in no less than three posts that BS's like myself are spineless, frightened rugsweeping dormats who would rather settle for a cheating wife than go out and find a new one.

 

He obviously has no idea how much emotional and psychological strength and hard work and unsupported internal debates a BS has to live with to do what he/she feels is the best path. His view is simple: the only "smart" BS is a divorced BS. Yet he has not walked in my shoes. It is simply impossible for these kinds of people to get their head around the idea that there are fully capable human beings out in the world who don't stay with their WS out of their own weakness, but out of their strength.

 

So OP will receive praise about how he is doing all the right things. But if in 2 5 or 15 pages from now he announces that he is leaning on reconciling, watch how quickly they will turn on him and his reasons.

 

A BS in LS only "knows" what he is doing when he talks about divorce.

 

Actually, my point about Dr. Phil is that he works in generalizations which do not help anyone when they are miserable and struggling. It is like saying If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with'. It is so anticlimactic and just. Duh..

 

Also, my husband is neither a cheater not is he broken.

 

I do not subscribe to once a cheater always a cheater, people learn and grow, putting hard lessons learned to very good future use.

 

I think that is part of why Fellini was upset at your remarks.

 

Donut was delicious, coconut.☕

[autumnnight]

I do believe that if GFR stays with his wife, they will both be miserable. And while for some BH's seeing their wives miserable makes their own misery worth it, I think that is a sad existence. I think the OP will be better served by ending the marriage so that all concerned have a chance to heal and grow. That will not happen if they stay together, and their children, IMO, will be more damaged by that particular version of "reconciliation" than they will by a divorce.

[sandylee1]

 

Also, my husband is neither a cheater not is he broken.

 

 

But I doubt his ex wife would agree as he cheated on her with you.

 

Leopards can change their spots though.

Edited September 20, 2015 by sandylee1
eta

[goodyblue]

But I doubt his ex wife would agree as he cheated on her with you.

 

Leopards can change their spots though.

 

I am sure if you stole a candy bar ten years ago the store owner would consider you a thief, But that doesn't mean that is who you are now.

 

Judgements will always be made, just like my h thinks his wife is all sorts of things. Maybe if she ever dates again her new guy won't consider her those things. And he would be right because she would not be that for him.

[goodyblue]

I believe in love. I believe in redemption, forgiveness and change. I believe that people are mostly good. If Fellini (or anyone) reconciles... that does not make him a doormat, or weak. I would wager it is much harder to stay and save the relationship.

Edited September 20, 2015 by goodyblue

[Mrs. John Adams]

there is no easy way to deal with infidelity. Divorcing can be extremely difficult...money, children, houses, lawyers.....it can be devastating to start over. But I certainly understand when divorce is the right answer for a couple.

 

Reconciliation is also difficult....

 

Regardless what road a couple chooses to take...anger, grieving, disappointment, healing.....all is part of the process.

 

I do not like when we point fingers at others and make judgement calls about things. Saying it takes more of a man to divorce...or more of a man to stay...to say a man who chooses reconciliation is a wimp...is just utterly ridiculous.

 

It is ALL difficult....and we all choose what is best for us. We don't need anyone else's approval...we need their support. And it really makes no difference what others think anyway.

 

Mr Adams comments to me often about how he agrees with and relates to many of Fellini's post here...and if Fellini and his wife are happy with the path they have chosen ...who are we to question them?

 

I was told today that my husband should have divorced me....and that may be true. But he didn't. Here we are 32 years later extremely happy and content. Sometimes I fear that we have been misunderstood. Because we have talked about the pain more than we have talked about our happiness.

 

We have had a wonderful life....the pain was never so bad that it was more than he could bear...and the good outweighed the bad. It may come across differently...but it is the truth. He has always loved me...why? I don't know...

 

if you could see us together...perhaps you would understand. We are so different...yet compliment each other. He truly is my strength when i am weak....

 

He was not tortured for thirty years....he had triggers and would suffer depression....but 99% of the time he was fine and we were happy. I think when we tell our story...the pain must be the focus rather then the happiness.

 

we are rare....successful reconciliation is rare....but it can and does happen. We did many things right...and a few things wrong in our healing...but to be very honest...i think true remorse...is hard to find and i think it takes TIME to get to the place you can even understand it.

 

I read all these stories and i hear people say...they are remorseful...but i have to wonder...are they really? I never understood what my BH was really looking for...and i thought i was giving it to him...until i finally "got" it. I believe true remorse is all about understanding the pain i caused....not being sorry for what i did...actually taking his pain on myself...and feeling it in my gut.

 

It is hard to put into words....and maybe remorse is different for different people. I know that my DH finally got what he needed...and for that i am thankful.

 

Felinni believes his wife is not capable of remorse...yet she gives him what he needs...and that's all that matters. To say he is weak because he chose to stay...is insulting and unnecessary.

 

If reconciliation is not your path...fine...then divorce. But do not belittle and insult those who have chosen reconciliation.

 

I believe a person who has the mindset that grandfunkrailroad has displayed in this thread...should divorce and divorce quickly. I believe it is the best choice for him and his WW. But what i believe is right is truly irrelevant.

[sidney2718]

I am less disturbed by his comments about WS's than his assertion, in no less than three posts that BS's like myself are spineless, frightened rugsweeping dormats who would rather settle for a cheating wife than go out and find a new one.

 

He obviously has no idea how much emotional and psychological strength and hard work and unsupported internal debates a BS has to live with to do what he/she feels is the best path. His view is simple: the only "smart" BS is a divorced BS. Yet he has not walked in my shoes. It is simply impossible for these kinds of people to get their head around the idea that there are fully capable human beings out in the world who don't stay with their WS out of their own weakness, but out of their strength.

 

So OP will receive praise about how he is doing all the right things. But if in 2 5 or 15 pages from now he announces that he is leaning on reconciling, watch how quickly they will turn on him and his reasons.

 

A BS in LS only "knows" what he is doing when he talks about divorce.

 

I mostly agree.

 

Another thing: most folks experiencing infidelity do NOT come here or to any other on-line forum. Folks who do come here are usually stuck in a choice between divorce and reconciliation. This is clearly true: had they already decided they'd not waste their time posting here.

 

So we as a group have some degree of influence on the OP. And in many cases we are too quick to give advice. Most infidelity occurs because of conditions in the marriage. That does not excuse infidelity, but it does serve notice that the betrayed spouse may have some self-searching and changing to do.

 

My opinion (others will disagree) is to push for reconciliation if it at all seems possible. That means that I favor divorce in about four cases out of five, but I've not kept a record. So I don't think it is fair to dismiss what I write on the grounds that I'm a congenital doormat or worse. It takes strength to go against the prevailing opinion.

 

I'm sure Fellini knows this.

Edited September 20, 2015 by sidney2718

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

I believe in love. I believe in redemption, forgiveness and change. I believe that people are mostly good. If Fellini (or anyone) reconciles... that does not make him a doormat, or weak. I would wager it is much harder to stay and save the relationship.

I believe in the Loch Ness Monster and Sasquach, but my belief has nothing much to do with what's at issue here.

[goodyblue]

I believe in the Loch Ness Monster and Sasquach, but my belief has nothing much to do with what's at issue here.

 

If you feel that way there is nothing I can do about it. Enjoy your day.

[NewLeaf512]

there is no easy way to deal with infidelity. Divorcing can be extremely difficult...money, children, houses, lawyers.....it can be devastating to start over. But I certainly understand when divorce is the right answer for a couple.

 

Reconciliation is also difficult....

 

Regardless what road a couple chooses to take...anger, grieving, disappointment, healing.....all is part of the process.

 

I do not like when we point fingers at others and make judgement calls about things. Saying it takes more of a man to divorce...or more of a man to stay...to say a man who chooses reconciliation is a wimp...is just utterly ridiculous.

 

It is ALL difficult....and we all choose what is best for us. We don't need anyone else's approval...we need their support. And it really makes no difference what others think anyway.

 

Mr Adams comments to me often about how he agrees with and relates to many of Fellini's post here...and if Fellini and his wife are happy with the path they have chosen ...who are we to question them?

 

I was told today that my husband should have divorced me....and that may be true. But he didn't. Here we are 32 years later extremely happy and content. Sometimes I fear that we have been misunderstood. Because we have talked about the pain more than we have talked about our happiness.

 

We have had a wonderful life....the pain was never so bad that it was more than he could bear...and the good outweighed the bad. It may come across differently...but it is the truth. He has always loved me...why? I don't know...

 

if you could see us together...perhaps you would understand. We are so different...yet compliment each other. He truly is my strength when i am weak....

 

He was not tortured for thirty years....he had triggers and would suffer depression....but 99% of the time he was fine and we were happy. I think when we tell our story...the pain must be the focus rather then the happiness.

 

we are rare....successful reconciliation is rare....but it can and does happen. We did many things right...and a few things wrong in our healing...but to be very honest...i think true remorse...is hard to find and i think it takes TIME to get to the place you can even understand it.

 

I read all these stories and i hear people say...they are remorseful...but i have to wonder...are they really? I never understood what my BH was really looking for...and i thought i was giving it to him...until i finally "got" it. I believe true remorse is all about understanding the pain i caused....not being sorry for what i did...actually taking his pain on myself...and feeling it in my gut.

 

It is hard to put into words....and maybe remorse is different for different people. I know that my DH finally got what he needed...and for that i am thankful.

 

Felinni believes his wife is not capable of remorse...yet she gives him what he needs...and that's all that matters. To say he is weak because he chose to stay...is insulting and unnecessary.

 

If reconciliation is not your path...fine...then divorce. But do not belittle and insult those who have chosen reconciliation.

 

I believe a person who has the mindset that grandfunkrailroad has displayed in this thread...should divorce and divorce quickly. I believe it is the best choice for him and his WW. But what i believe is right is truly irrelevant.

 

 

Thanks for this. I'm interested that you say successful reconciliations are rare. How did you arrive at this?

 

It's my experience that the reconciled couples here seem to stick.

 

I was a kind of BS, and for me the line in the sand was crossed too far, for others it's different. Maybe I've not read the right threads but the WW and BS who remain seem to stay together. Some come out better, some just stay together treading over scorched earth forever. But I don't see any I don't think who make the proclaimation of staying together and then calling it quits.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I believe that most couples who experience infidelity divorce...and i believe there are some couples who attempt reconciliation...but end up divorcing. We personally know several in this category.... There are certainly people who remain together and co exist ...some because of finances, some for the children.

 

To achieve a reconciliation where a couple once again have a stable, loving, trusting, comfortable relationship...I believe is rare. I believe it can happen...Mr Adams and I are truly happier than we have ever been...and we have been married 43 years...and are 32 years in reconciliation. I think it takes a great deal of time...and not everybody has 30 years to reestablish a broken relationship.

 

Mr. Adams has said many times that the stars aligned for us...because if one thing had been different...if one more thing had happened...it may have been more than he could bear. Thankfully..we will never know....

 

Like i said...we did many things right..and many things were in our favor...we cannot remove what i did....but we have lived our lives, and loved each other the best way we know how. Reconciliation is not for everyone...but it was the best answer for us....and i am so glad mr adams gave me the chance to prove to him that i was worth the gift he gave me.

 

There are those who think he made the wrong choice...but he believes he made the right one.

 

Fellini believes he made the right one....and that's all that counts.

[JohnAdams]

Thanks for this. I'm interested that you say successful reconciliations are rare. How did you arrive at this?

 

It's my experience that the reconciled couples here seem to stick.

 

I was a kind of BS, and for me the line in the sand was crossed too far, for others it's different. Maybe I've not read the right threads but the WW and BS who remain seem to stay together. Some come out better, some just stay together treading over scorched earth forever. But I don't see any I don't think who make the proclaimation of staying together and then calling it quits.

 

Most statistics I have seen seem to indicate that a couple has less than a 50% chance of successful reconciliation after an affair. The chances seem to diminish according to how the BS finds out. A couple that the WS confesses seems to have the best odds. This is per an article in the Wall Street journal last week. You can probably find statistics to support anything so your mileage may vary.

 

 

On the debate of true remorse, I think that it takes a WS a long time to reach this level. I think many WS are immediately sorry and grief stricken after Dday but are not at a level of remorse. Early on in the reconciliation process, being sorry may be enough. After the BS has reached a point that they can think about what happened logically, the feeling of injustice and imbalance in the relationship starts to show up. The WS on the other hand wants of move on and bury the affair. A BS then may start to think they have really never seen remorse only sorrow for the affair. This is probably a stage that some marriages get stuck. It is not a bad place, you can have a very happy life. Your spouse is sorry, you have regained trust, you have complete love for your spouse. However, you feel something is missing and that one thing is remorse. The trouble is that it is hard to articulate what true remorse looks like.

 

 

In our case, I knew my wife was sorry but I could not explain what remorse looked like and to some degree thought she should be able to figure it out. It took us many years to figure out remorse. Once we did the final hurdle in the whole dark infidelity cloud finally lifted.

 

 

This is not to say up to this point we did not have a good life, we did. This demonstrates that you can indeed live happily in reconciliation without ever achieving true remorse. To me, remorse is the final zen, the final stage of true healing. Many never make it to the mountain top, but have happy, successful lives. Some may say they see remorse quickly after Dday, I have my doubts, but if a person reaches a stage they are happy, more power to them.

 

 

There are many cases where I absolutely think divorce is the best option. I saw my nephew try to reconcile after his wife's affair. I thought it was a mistake and it was, they ended up in a bitter divorce. Every case is different we can only relay what happened to us and the action we took on our journey. Each person can hopefully glean what helps them when they sift through all the varying opinions on these BB's.