Cynical

[Grapesofwrath]

I'm starting to worry that perhaps one of the worst things about being in this A is that it has permanent altered my view of marriage and love. It's made me cynical. I assume that all MM are cheaters. That nothing is the way it appears.

 

I don't want to let xMM ruin love and marriage for me.

 

Anyone else in this struggle?

[FusionCutter]

I'm starting to worry that perhaps one of the worst things about being in this A is that it has permanent altered my view of marriage and love. It's made me cynical. I assume that all MM are cheaters. That nothing is the way it appears.

 

I don't want to let xMM ruin love and marriage for me.

 

Anyone else in this struggle?

 

Perhaps you could consider leaving your situation permanently forever and for good. Read your own post over and over again.

 

You don't want to let him ruin love and marriage, and yet that is exactly what is happening.

 

It's time for a wakeup call. And yeah, there are tons of guys out there that don't cheat. Find one.

[Grapesofwrath]

Perhaps you could consider leaving your situation permanently forever and for good. Read your own post over and over again.

 

You don't want to let him ruin love and marriage, and yet that is exactly what is happening.

 

It's time for a wakeup call. And yeah, there are tons of guys out there that don't cheat. Find one.

 

Fusion: Let me catch you up real quick...I've already left the situation permanently forever and for good. It's been a few weeks, actually.

[jen1447]

Don't want to be cynical = not cynical.

[Got it]

(((((((((((((Grapes))))))))))))))))

[Gloria_Smellons]

I'm starting to worry that perhaps one of the worst things about being in this A is that it has permanent altered my view of marriage and love. It's made me cynical. I assume that all MM are cheaters. That nothing is the way it appears.

 

I don't want to let xMM ruin love and marriage for me.

 

Anyone else in this struggle?

 

Yup. Completely.

 

I'm not suggesting there are any 'good' reasons to have an affair, but I guess if MM had at least claimed his marriage was bad I might have understood it more. The fact it, he wasn't unhappy. At all. Essentially he was just after something else, something different, someone else to lavish him with undivided attention and somewhere else to stick his genatalia.

 

Frankly, when I sat at thought about it, it's horrifying. As a spouse you could do everything right, and your partner could still cheat on you because... Some people are just beyond selfish.

 

I may seem stupid, but this came as a real shock to me. How can something like that not make you cynical? How can you protect a relationship against real life? It's impossible isn't it?

 

The answer was actually right in front of my face. My Mum and Dad. Married nearly 45 years and sickeningly in love. Sure they fall out and bicker and life isn't always rosy, but their love is true and they've made it work. Neither of them would ever cheat, they respect each other too much. Not in terms of all that shared history (although that as well) but simply as human beings.

 

Good, honest people exist. I'm going to find one or die in the attempt

[Owl6118]

You need look no further than this site to know that is not true. Every few days a new loyal man shows up in the other forum, heartbroken to have reason to post there. Loyalty is not exclusive to to one gender only.

[Grapesofwrath]

Yup. Completely.

 

I'm not suggesting there are any 'good' reasons to have an affair, but I guess if MM had at least claimed his marriage was bad I might have understood it more. The fact it, he wasn't unhappy. At all. Essentially he was just after something else, something different, someone else to lavish him with undivided attention and somewhere else to stick his genatalia.

 

Frankly, when I sat at thought about it, it's horrifying. As a spouse you could do everything right, and your partner could still cheat on you because... Some people are just beyond selfish.

 

I may seem stupid, but this came as a real shock to me. How can something like that not make you cynical? How can you protect a relationship against real life? It's impossible isn't it?

 

Good, honest people exist. I'm going to find one or die in the attempt

 

That's it, Gloria. That's a big part of what is messing me up. Prior to this, I thought one had to be deeply unhappy in a M in order to cheat. Why else would you stick the knife into your marriage? This idea that happily married people cheat is an entirely new concept to me. People do this stuff for sport? Because they can and it's fun for them? My xMM is not unhappy. In fact he says he's quite happy and satisfied. He was "never looking for a way out." He claims--and I sincerely doubt--that he was not looking for an A but then I came along and blah blah blah. He just couldn't resist. I didn't notice him trying very hard, either.

 

All this to say that you can be married, think the relationship is strong, trust your partner with everything, continue to have sex, share common interests, spend time together, raise a family, plan for the future, be "happy," and they will still cheat on you? Because they can?

 

How can you tell who can be trusted?

[ShatteredLady]

I'm a former BS but I'm going through the same crisis of faith (as I call it) as you.

 

My parents had their 50 wedding anniversary a couple of years ago. They love each-other truly. My Dad says he wants to die before my Mum because even if he died as soon as he discovered she had passed he would still have to live that moment in this world without her & he can't imagine anything worse.

 

I try to hold onto that but the dark little voice inside says that my Dad is a dieing breed. The world is now about instant gratification & using psychobabble to avoid owning our own s**t.

 

My H didn't jump outside of our marriage because we had 25 years of ever increasing misery. He didn't wake-up with this desperate need to leave his young family because we'd disscussed our issues many times & never reached a resolution.

 

I was sick. Life threateningly sick. I 'neglected' him. It took less than 4 months to go from sitting at my bedside as I writhed in pain & drifted in & out of consciousness too asking her to create a new secret account so I wouldn't know what was going on & throw a "Hissy fit!". I'm an intelligent, successful, strong woman...I don't throw "Hissy fits"!!!

 

If a loving, gentle man I've shared my life with since I was 21 years old can go from telling me I'm his life too treating me like a piece of s**t in such a short period of time, when I needed him most, how can I have faith in mankind?

 

I've read their mails. Their fresh promising A. It was lie after lie. Extreme lies! An atheist quoting the bible! Not just rewriting marital history (there was of course a LOT of that) but mind boggling lies & deception. If a man can say "I love you! I have such a connection with you!" but that's all based on lies too...even when it's new! How can we have faith in mankind?

 

If my FAMILY. The man I thought I knew so completely can become a cruel, commpassionless, manipulative monster just 'like that' AFTER 25 years can a woman ever feel completely safe & selflessly vulnerable again? Why would she?

 

"In sickness & in health" is surely so important. I never even thought about it until I experienced the "In sickness" part. Isn't love something that you give when your partner isn't really capable of giving much in return?

 

I've learnt that you don't get 'brownie points' or credits in the M bank for a lifetime of love & support. If love is something I need to earn every single day I'm not sure it's worth anything....

 

Sorry. Bad & bitter day.

I'm sorry you've been damaged like this. You were just chasing the fantasy. As a BS I have to say you had a huge lapse in judgement but I'm a hapless romantic. We all want love. We want to believe & have faith. The world doesn't need to be this brutally sad.

[dubliner]

 

How can you tell who can be trusted?

 

Character..dishonesty, selfishness runs through a person like the colours through a stick of rock.

A person either has a good moral code, or they don't. This presents itself in all aspects of their life and dealings with others.

The mistake is, when dating, ignoring the red flags, making excuses for behaviour we find accaceptable or distasteful, thinking their poor boundaries /sketchy behaviour somehow won't apply when it comes to 'our' relationship.

[Sassy Girl]

I'm starting to worry that perhaps one of the worst things about being in this A is that it has permanent altered my view of marriage and love. It's made me cynical. I assume that all MM are cheaters. That nothing is the way it appears.

 

I don't want to let xMM ruin love and marriage for me.

 

Anyone else in this struggle?

 

I guess for me I was already cynical. I've seen everyone around me have affairs and that made it easier for me to cross the line...

 

Because of my experiences I always hated cheating... Then one day something snapped in me (a particular piece of information coupled with some serious marriage issues) and I figured, well if everyone else is doing it...unfortunately that just meant I became one of "them" that I despised so much.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had been in a different affair before this one?

[Owl6118]

Grapes, jokingly but with seriousness underneith, this is a sample size and definition problem.

 

You a generalizing from a sample size of one. And one key characteristic of the sample is you knew early on he was a man willing to deceive someone to whom he owed faithfulness and loyalty and trust. You overlooked or excused that truth, but it was always true, and now the ability to overlook it is gone.

 

But every day you meet a broad sample of men. Some of them will be kind, or witty, or have physical charisma. But they will also have friendly but firm boundaries. They will offer collegiality, even deep friendship, but not invite innapropriate confidences, or try to engage emotions with an intent to cultivate dependency or excessive intimacy. You maybe never THOUGHT of them, or in a way SAW them, becuase they did nothing to invite it and subtly discouraged it.

 

We are all over, Grapes. you meet us everywhere you go. But you filtered for a different sample.

[ShatteredLady]

Quote - "A person either has a good moral code, or they don't. This presents itself in all aspects of their life and dealings with others."

 

The strange thing is my H has a very strong moral code (I know how that sounds) & that's been the biggest problem for me! Twice in my life the "Body Snatchers" have taken him. Leaving behind this alien creature. He's EXTREME! I mean he can spend DECADES of his life being the kindest, most loving, principled moral man. Twice in my life he has become a monster! To the extent that I was terrified for his mental health. At one point, a very long time ago, it got so bad that a complete stranger observed us together in a shop...followed me to catch me alone & handed me a card for an abused women's shelter with the words "I know!" written on the back! A complete stranger! She was correct. Everyone we know, including ME would describe him as the most gentle kind man.

 

He fell into an EA because he's so 'nice'. To 'justify' his growing fantasy...against everything that he believes in. His moral code...he had to rewrite reality & turn me into a monster. Kick me in the gutter to put her on a pedestal. Whilst in the throws of his affairs he lies to himself & everyone else.

 

After he returns to himself. Researches & questions his sanity. Honestly says that he can recall the things he's said & done but it's like another person was doing it. It truly is like a mental illness. He's always suffered from self-depricating depression. I still don't know if this is what they call "The Affair Fog". It's just so extreme! I could tell the most awful abusive stories.

 

All I'm saying is we have been together all of our adult lives. We had kids late in life. We spent MANY YEARS truly knowing eachother. We weren't people who got married, had kids & got lost in the day to day of things. We spent a whole year together 24/7, no work, just learning about & enjoying each-other. We've travelled, partied, lived. It's not about missing 'red flags', it's not about not really knowing eachother. It's like possession by an evil entity. It's the only way I can describe it.

 

How do you live with that 'Truth'? How can you ever truly trust ANY human being after knowing that? How can it take a decade or more to be blindsided by the alternate reality?

[Grapesofwrath]

I guess for me I was already cynical. I've seen everyone around me have affairs and that made it easier for me to cross the line...

 

Because of my experiences I always hated cheating... Then one day something snapped in me (a particular piece of information coupled with some serious marriage issues) and I figured, well if everyone else is doing it...unfortunately that just meant I became one of "them" that I despised so much.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had been in a different affair before this one?

 

Yes, Sassy. I engaged in an online, long-distance, exit EA with an old college friend when I was married. Extremely cowardly, and I regret it. I don't regret many things I've done, but I regret that. It lasted for about 3 months. There was a d-day and we separated shortly thereafter. Divorce was the right path, and I wish I'd had the courage and ethics to face that head-on, without involving a third party. I was never in love with him, we never spoke like that to each other, and we did not see each other in real life or spend time together. Still, it was something I did because I was so deeply miserable in my marriage and so desperate for some human contact.

 

This is precisely what makes this situation so confusing and disillusioning for me. I did what I did because my marriage was dead, and what I did was not that much in the grand scheme of things. This is a man who practically lived at my house for half of the week. He met my friends. I cared for him when he was sick. He professed his love for me over and over again. I have a tape recording of him telling me how much I mean to him. He wept in my arms when I told him the A had to end. And all this while he is happily married to another woman, with no intention of leaving her or upsetting that apple cart. This is compartmentalization to a staggering degree, and duplicity beyond imagination.

[Grapesofwrath]

Grapes, jokingly but with seriousness underneith, this is a sample size and definition problem.

 

You a generalizing from a sample size of one. And one key characteristic of the sample is you knew early on he was a man willing to deceive someone to whom he owed faithfulness and loyalty and trust. You overlooked or excused that truth, but it was always true, and now the ability to overlook it is gone.

 

But every day you meet a broad sample of men. Some of them will be kind, or witty, or have physical charisma. But they will also have friendly but firm boundaries. They will offer collegiality, even deep friendship, but not invite innapropriate confidences, or try to engage emotions with an intent to cultivate dependency or excessive intimacy. You maybe never THOUGHT of them, or in a way SAW them, becuase they did nothing to invite it and subtly discouraged it.

 

We are all over, Grapes. you meet us everywhere you go. But you filtered for a different sample.

 

Thank you, Owl. That is the best thing I've read in a long time.

[Owl6118]

I'll tip you off to a loyal guy "tell," G.

 

No matter how close an opposite sex friendship, we don't run down our partners to our opposite sex friends. To the opposite sex we are a team with our partner, whether our teammate is with us or not.

 

That running down of his wife that you took for a confidence and token of vulnerability? Well... That's a "tell" too... But one from the disloyal side.

[Grapesofwrath]

I'll tip you off to a loyal guy "tell," G.

 

No matter how close an opposite sex friendship, we don't run down our partners to our opposite sex friends. To the opposite sex we are a team with our partner, whether our teammate is with us or not.

 

That running down of his wife that you took for a confidence and token of vulnerability? Well... That's a "tell" too... But one from the disloyal side.

 

Owl: You may have my story confused with some others on LS. In my case, the xMM never had a negative word to say about his wife. He only made complimentary remarks about her and their marriage. Never ran her down to me.

[Owl6118]

Indeed I did. Or maybe I was just projecting after a fashion. Sorry about that.

[Gloria_Smellons]

All this to say that you can be married, think the relationship is strong, trust your partner with everything, continue to have sex, share common interests, spend time together, raise a family, plan for the future, be "happy," and they will still cheat on you? Because they can?

 

How can you tell who can be trusted?

 

You're echoing my thoughts totally Grapes. Another poster referred to it as a crisis of faith, that resonates with me completely - and like they also stated, it does seem like the 'good ones' are a dying breed.

 

However, think about it. How many times have I been out and enjoyed a really nice meal? Literally hundreds of times I'm sure, but it's the few bad experiences that really stick in my mind and overshadow all the good. I'm hoping it's the same basic principal with people.

 

You can never tell who to trust, not really (in my cynical opinion), so you have three options;

 

1) Never even attempt to trust anyone again and close yourself off to the concept of love.

 

Nope, I just don't feel ready to give up completely - despite the fact that I really function very well on my own.

 

2) Throw caution to the wind and hurl yourself into every relationship like it's 'the one' and risk getting seriously hurt.

 

Nope, can't do this either. I have a friend like this. Every man she meets is the love of her life and they're going to get married, have babies and live happily ever after. And usually all this is decided before they've even met in person. In a way I admire her for being SO positive and open to it, but personally I couldn't handle all that disappointment when 99/100 it goes wrong in spectacular fashion.

 

3) A blend of both, keep trying, but always keep a little bit of yourself locked away and protected, so that if the worst happens, it hopefully won't be totally earth shattering.

 

This is what I'm going to go with for the time being. I know it sounds unromantic, possibly even boring to some, but life for me isn't a Disney movie. If I sit around waiting to be swept off my feet by a handsome prince, I am inevitably going to be disappointed. I still believe however that I can meet a genuinely good, decent, honest, attractive man I like that likes me too. (Actually, when I put it like that is DOES seem like a big ask! )

[Grapesofwrath]

Indeed I did. Or maybe I was just projecting after a fashion. Sorry about that.

 

It's funny...for a time I actually respected him more because he didn't run her down. I thought it was decent of him. Until I slowly came to realize that he didn't do it as a way of protecting her or out of respect for her, he did it because he genuinely likes her and things at home are good.

[minimariah]

did he ever give you any other reason for the affair except "i liked you"?

[Popsicle]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that someone who cheats in their marriage is happily married. I just believe that they have a twisted view of what "happily married" is.

[Furious]

I'm starting to worry that perhaps one of the worst things about being in this A is that it has permanent altered my view of marriage and love. It's made me cynical. I assume that all MM are cheaters. That nothing is the way it appears.

 

I don't want to let xMM ruin love and marriage for me.

 

Anyone else in this struggle?

 

Gently...the irony is like saying, since being involved with a crook I have lost faith in crooks.

[jen1447]

Gently...the irony is like saying, since being involved with a crook I have lost faith in crooks.

 

I get the point you're going for but I think it's more like saying "I was involved with a venture capitalist who turned out to be a crook, so now I've lost faith in venture capitalism for fear that they're all like that."

[Furious]

I get the point you're going for but I think it's more like saying "I was involved with a venture capitalist who turned out to be a crook, so now I've lost faith in venture capitalism for fear that they're all like that."

 

Nope....more like , I knowingly got involved a with a lying venture capitalist and he turned out to be a lying venture capitalist and now I don't have faith in lying venture capitalists.